1 00:00:00,980 --> 00:00:04,540 Podcasting 2.0 for October 31st, 2025, episode 2 00:00:04,540 --> 00:00:05,520 240. 3 00:00:05,940 --> 00:00:07,260 Open source is people. 4 00:00:08,980 --> 00:00:13,100 Hey everybody, it's that spooky time of year 5 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,420 which means time for another board meeting. 6 00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:16,580 That's all we really do here. 7 00:00:16,660 --> 00:00:18,340 It's time to talk about podcasting. 8 00:00:18,380 --> 00:00:20,060 Everything that's been going on in our world 9 00:00:20,060 --> 00:00:22,000 and yours and in the world of podcasting. 10 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,800 We are the board meeting. 11 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:26,180 In fact, this board meeting is the only 12 00:00:26,180 --> 00:00:28,680 board room that doesn't require age verification. 13 00:00:29,220 --> 00:00:30,920 I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of 14 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,640 the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the 15 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,620 only man who can never be included in 16 00:00:35,620 --> 00:00:36,780 a reduction in force. 17 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:38,540 Say hello to my friend on the other 18 00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:41,680 end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones. 19 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,500 I am the riff, I am the reduction, 20 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:47,900 I am force reduction. 21 00:00:48,380 --> 00:00:50,860 That is the definition of Dave, force reduction. 22 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,420 Force reduction, yes. 23 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,180 No, we cannot riff you. 24 00:00:54,340 --> 00:00:55,240 You are un-riffable. 25 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:56,280 Un-riffable? 26 00:00:56,540 --> 00:00:58,320 You are un-riffable, yes. 27 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,140 We can get rid of everybody, but we 28 00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:01,000 can't get rid of you. 29 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,400 Un-riffable, we say, un-riffable. 30 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,320 Everybody's expendable. 31 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,560 I'm not so sure about that. 32 00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:12,540 I'm not saying it won't hurt. 33 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,300 It may hurt bad. 34 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,640 It may sting. 35 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,720 But everybody's expendable. 36 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,280 It may sting a little bit, just a 37 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:18,900 little bit. 38 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,920 Yeah, brother, I was so blown away. 39 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,000 Why? 40 00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:25,560 Because all of a sudden I get a 41 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,520 message and you've sent clips. 42 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,820 It's been a long time. 43 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,220 I don't think you've sent clips in, well, 44 00:01:34,380 --> 00:01:35,920 I don't think we've had clips in a 45 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,180 long, long time. 46 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,300 Weeks, weeks, I'll tell you. 47 00:01:39,740 --> 00:01:42,180 Yeah, so do you want to get to 48 00:01:42,180 --> 00:01:43,220 your clips or what do you want to 49 00:01:43,220 --> 00:01:43,600 do first? 50 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,320 I'm always excited. 51 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:46,520 You got clips, clips, clips, and they're biblical. 52 00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:50,340 Wait, did I send you the right clips? 53 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:53,500 No, you sent me Solomon one through four, 54 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:54,340 so I'm like, okay. 55 00:01:54,340 --> 00:01:56,720 Oh, yeah, yeah. 56 00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:00,900 Let's see, I need to actually get the 57 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:02,100 clips on this machine. 58 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:05,180 I sent them from a different machine. 59 00:02:05,420 --> 00:02:07,060 Where are they? 60 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:10,120 Because it would be bad if I can't 61 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:11,180 even tell what my clips are. 62 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:14,840 Well, I'm going to think this is John 63 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:15,900 Solomon, maybe. 64 00:02:16,220 --> 00:02:16,880 I'm just guessing. 65 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:18,060 Negatory. 66 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:19,580 It's not John Solomon. 67 00:02:19,940 --> 00:02:22,420 It gets more interesting by the moment, everybody. 68 00:02:22,420 --> 00:02:25,280 This is David Solomon. 69 00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:26,200 Pew! 70 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,360 Wow, okay. 71 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:29,300 Good timing. 72 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,560 This is David Solomon, who is the CEO 73 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,020 of Goldman Sachs. 74 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,780 Oh, okay, a douchebag, basically. 75 00:02:39,340 --> 00:02:40,180 Yeah, yeah. 76 00:02:40,540 --> 00:02:45,600 So, apologies that this is a little bit 77 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,560 maybe out of order, because I'm going to 78 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,600 have to, like, the way I number these 79 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,740 really didn't, end up being the correct order. 80 00:02:54,980 --> 00:02:57,720 Like, the best order, the most ideal order. 81 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Yeah, no problem. 82 00:02:58,320 --> 00:02:59,780 You just tell me what number you want. 83 00:02:59,900 --> 00:03:02,500 I mean, I'm a full-service production guy 84 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:02,820 here. 85 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:07,000 Well, so I get this Bloomberg News newsletter. 86 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:07,840 Yeah. 87 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:09,040 I don't know how I got on this 88 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,260 thing. 89 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,420 I mean, like, you just, you know. 90 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:11,880 The question is, how do you get off 91 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:12,140 of it? 92 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:12,800 That's the question. 93 00:03:13,180 --> 00:03:16,260 Yeah, you sniff in the right, when you're 94 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:17,860 turned in the right direction out on the 95 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:19,280 street one day, and suddenly you're on the 96 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,120 Bloomberg newsletter email list. 97 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:21,680 I got you. 98 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,360 And this thing is hilarious most of the 99 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,100 time, because it's like, you know, it's this 100 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:41,220 eloquent sort of synthesis of economic language, TDS, 101 00:03:43,620 --> 00:03:45,980 and just complete hogwash. 102 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,640 Like, it's funny. 103 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,260 It makes it funny to read. 104 00:03:50,260 --> 00:03:52,100 Like, I enjoy reading it just to see 105 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:52,960 what they're going to say. 106 00:03:54,580 --> 00:03:57,300 But, so the most recent thing is they 107 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:02,800 blamed the nearly $40 trillion in U.S. 108 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,460 debt on the one big, beautiful bill. 109 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:07,720 Yes, yeah. 110 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:10,240 Which happened like, you know, three months ago. 111 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,280 But hold on, hold on, Dave. 112 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,980 We're going to grow ourselves out of it. 113 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:14,160 Don't you know that by now? 114 00:04:14,540 --> 00:04:16,500 Stable coin and GDP. 115 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,519 We're going to grow ourselves out of it. 116 00:04:18,579 --> 00:04:19,700 That's the plan. 117 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,920 Nevermind the 40 years of debt-fueled expansion. 118 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:27,820 Don't look at that. 119 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:28,580 Oh, I won't. 120 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:28,800 No. 121 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Through every administration, you know, left, right, and 122 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:32,360 center. 123 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:34,060 Don't look at that. 124 00:04:34,100 --> 00:04:35,580 Just look at the most recent thing that 125 00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:36,840 just passed your newsfeed. 126 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:37,880 That's the knowledge. 127 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:38,420 Yes. 128 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:47,040 But, so, this guy, David Solomon, David Dave, 129 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:49,300 from CEO of Goldman Sachs. 130 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:54,220 Well, it's important to remember, Goldman Sachs is, 131 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,980 Goldman Sachs, along with J.P. Morgan, and 132 00:04:57,980 --> 00:04:59,680 I think about three other banks. 133 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Citibank, somebody else is in that mix. 134 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:06,880 I can't remember. 135 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,560 There's just a handful. 136 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:10,280 This is the good old Boeing network. 137 00:05:10,580 --> 00:05:13,420 J.P. Morgan, J.P. Morgan Chase, Citibank, 138 00:05:14,140 --> 00:05:18,680 Bank of America, Goldman, and then you get 139 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,540 into, yeah. 140 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,560 I don't think, what I'm talking about is 141 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,540 these guys are primary money dealers. 142 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:25,580 Oh, oh. 143 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:26,520 Which is a, yeah. 144 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Yes. 145 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,340 And then you have a designation. 146 00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:32,920 Yeah, the guys who got wiped out in 147 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:33,500 9-11. 148 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,140 Yes, these are. 149 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:38,160 Those guys. 150 00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:42,320 These are, so, yeah, a primary dealer in 151 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,540 FedSpeak is somebody who can print money. 152 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:48,100 It's a bank, it's a regular bank, but 153 00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:49,120 they can print money. 154 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:50,060 Yes. 155 00:05:50,060 --> 00:05:51,960 They can essentially, they can issue treasuries. 156 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,420 They can do open market operations on their 157 00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:57,220 own without having to go through the Fed. 158 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,560 And so, that's what, it's important to remember 159 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,360 that Goldman is one of the few christened 160 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,740 money dealers in the U.S. system. 161 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,660 And so, when he talks, I mean, he's 162 00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:15,920 talking as somebody who has the ability to 163 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,480 do these things. 164 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,960 So, he's being asked about, he's being asked 165 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,840 about the U.S. debt when he's talking 166 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,620 about, this is Solomon One, the growth question. 167 00:06:34,180 --> 00:06:34,520 Okay. 168 00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:37,780 Well, in New York, they wouldn't sell, they 169 00:06:37,780 --> 00:06:39,080 wouldn't be buying treasury securities. 170 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,280 It was such a big problem because it 171 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,040 wouldn't be a good investment. 172 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,260 And then the people in New York say, 173 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,480 well, the people in Washington must know what 174 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:44,820 they're doing. 175 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,120 If they're borrowing this money, they must know 176 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:47,080 how to figure out how to pay it. 177 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,360 So, what is the story? 178 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,820 Why is the business community not worried about, 179 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,140 as a general rule, they don't seem to 180 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:54,740 be as worried about the 38 trillion as 181 00:06:54,740 --> 00:06:55,800 I would have thought they would be? 182 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:57,900 Well, I speak to a lot of people 183 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:59,060 in the business community, a lot of people 184 00:06:59,060 --> 00:07:00,520 in the financial community, and I think people 185 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,400 are worried about the level of debt. 186 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:05,500 And the fact that we've reached a point, 187 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,160 and by the way, this is true in 188 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:08,440 the United States, but it's true in every 189 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,480 developed economy where kind of fiscal stimulus and 190 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,580 an aggressive fiscal play is really just kind 191 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:17,840 of embedded in the way these democratic economies 192 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:18,480 are operating. 193 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,880 And it's accelerated meaningfully in the last five 194 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,080 years. 195 00:07:22,140 --> 00:07:25,260 I think the pandemic played an accelerating role 196 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:27,460 and it doesn't seem like we have an 197 00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:28,520 ability to pull it back. 198 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,020 And so, we've taken the debt in the 199 00:07:31,020 --> 00:07:33,140 last 15 plus years, kind of since the 200 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:36,120 financial crisis, from 7 trillion to 38 trillion, 201 00:07:36,740 --> 00:07:39,100 and just refinancing it for the rest of 202 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:39,620 the decade. 203 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,940 What's got to be refinanced, if you look 204 00:07:41,940 --> 00:07:45,360 at current rates, is going to grow it 205 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,220 into the low 40s, for sure. 206 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:51,460 And we're growing our spending at a reasonable 207 00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:52,080 rate still. 208 00:07:52,220 --> 00:07:53,300 And so, this is an issue we have 209 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:53,840 to wrestle with. 210 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,020 Now, the path out really isn't a revenue 211 00:07:57,020 --> 00:07:58,500 path out, the path out is a growth 212 00:07:58,500 --> 00:07:58,840 path. 213 00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:01,180 And if you think about it, the difference, 214 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,040 trend growth is 2%. 215 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,680 The difference between compounding growth at 3% 216 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,520 and 2% is monstrous in terms of 217 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,400 dealing with this issue. 218 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,380 So, there's a lot of discussion about running 219 00:08:11,380 --> 00:08:13,240 a real growth play. 220 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:14,960 I think we have some things that are 221 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,120 going on that give us a better opportunity 222 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,680 to have a higher growth trajectory, particularly. 223 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:26,580 So, actually, there's 25 money guys. 224 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:29,500 It does include Bank of America, Cantor Fitzgerald, 225 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,659 that's who I was thinking of, Deutsche, Goldman, 226 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:36,299 HSBC, JPMorgan, Morgan, et cetera. 227 00:08:37,059 --> 00:08:41,159 I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think 228 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,820 there's an FRBNY designation that gives you the 229 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:51,100 ability to do actual direct open market operations. 230 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,540 I think those guys can do, they can 231 00:08:54,540 --> 00:08:57,820 essentially print money, print dollars, but I don't 232 00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:00,580 think they can issue treasuries, which is what 233 00:09:00,580 --> 00:09:01,780 Goldman and them can do. 234 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,280 I think that's a very select few. 235 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520 But I do know that Cantor Fitzgerald can 236 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,960 do that, and that's kind of controversial because 237 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,620 our Commerce Secretary is the CEO of Cantor 238 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:13,560 Fitzgerald. 239 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:14,960 Of course he is. 240 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:18,060 Minor point, minor point, minor point. 241 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,440 What was interesting there towards the end, there's 242 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,920 a couple things about this that piqued my 243 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:22,160 interest. 244 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Number one, there towards the end, he said, 245 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,720 there's a lot of, I forgot the exact 246 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:31,960 language he used, but he said, there's a 247 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,160 lot of talk about doing a growth play. 248 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:36,780 Yes, that's- Can you play the very 249 00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:37,360 end of that? 250 00:09:37,830 --> 00:09:38,360 Oh, yeah. 251 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:38,740 Again. 252 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:39,820 Sure, hold on a second. 253 00:09:40,180 --> 00:09:40,320 Yeah. 254 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:42,520 I don't know where it starts, but like 255 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,440 - It's around here. 256 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:48,140 At a reasonable rate still, and so this 257 00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:49,380 is an issue we have to wrestle with. 258 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:52,540 Now, the path out really isn't a revenue 259 00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:54,020 path out, the path out is a growth 260 00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:54,360 path. 261 00:09:54,820 --> 00:09:56,720 And if you think about it, the difference, 262 00:09:57,220 --> 00:09:58,540 trend growth is 2%. 263 00:09:58,540 --> 00:10:01,200 The difference between compounding growth at 3% 264 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,060 and 2% is monstrous in terms of 265 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:03,920 dealing with this issue. 266 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,880 So there's a lot of discussion about running 267 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:08,740 a real growth play. 268 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:10,500 I think we have some things that are 269 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:11,200 going on. 270 00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:13,780 He says there's a lot of discussion about 271 00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:15,760 running a real growth play. 272 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:16,220 Yes. 273 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:19,420 That sounds like, almost like- Football? 274 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:23,800 42, grow! 275 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,860 That sounds almost like he's having like sort 276 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:30,860 of side discussions. 277 00:10:31,420 --> 00:10:33,400 This sounds like a private discussion that he's 278 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,720 had with other people that come, that kind 279 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,660 of leaked into his answer to this thing. 280 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:38,700 This is the way he works. 281 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,720 It's almost like it's not, because have you 282 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,260 heard of anybody- Yes, actually I have 283 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:45,020 heard about this. 284 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Yes. 285 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,220 And I heard about this on This Week 286 00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:48,800 in Bitcoin. 287 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:50,360 Oh, okay. 288 00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:52,100 A few weeks back, actually. 289 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,680 And Chris was talking about this. 290 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,720 And so I think our growth rate is 291 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,720 3.2, which is indeed monstrous compared to 292 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:02,180 two. 293 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,420 And part of that is tariffs coming in. 294 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:10,560 Part of it is reduction in spending and 295 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:11,540 some other magic. 296 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,420 But that was always the idea was, because 297 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:17,640 you go from two to three, that's huge. 298 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,300 That is big, compounded. 299 00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:23,900 So how, he's saying, he said there's a 300 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,080 lot of ways, there's ways we can do 301 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:26,460 that. 302 00:11:28,140 --> 00:11:31,720 And this is a podcast about podcasting. 303 00:11:32,220 --> 00:11:32,840 We're getting there. 304 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:34,240 I'm weaving, I'm doing the weaving. 305 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:37,980 Take it easy, CBrooklyn1112, simmer down, simmer down. 306 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:40,500 Yeah, this is not DHM plug. 307 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,560 So he's like, how are we going to 308 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:44,660 do? 309 00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:47,880 We've got ways of generating this growth. 310 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:52,320 So Solomon too, and he gives the answer. 311 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,800 Do you want to take a crack at 312 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:54,560 what you think it is? 313 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:56,180 What's the question again? 314 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,160 How are we going to do this? 315 00:11:57,460 --> 00:11:58,540 How are we going to get that two 316 00:11:58,540 --> 00:11:58,900 to three? 317 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:00,440 How are we going to go from two 318 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,080 to 3% growth so that we can 319 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,340 get ourselves out of the bad debt trap? 320 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,200 Somehow it's going to come down to printing 321 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,560 even more money, I think. 322 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:12,800 Let him talk. 323 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,400 You know, technology, AI, getting embedded into the 324 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,880 enterprise, the productivity opportunity from that. 325 00:12:18,060 --> 00:12:18,840 Oh, we're screwed. 326 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:20,840 AI. 327 00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:22,600 Productivity from AI. 328 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:23,880 Well, yeah, of course. 329 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,220 And it actually, there's something to be said 330 00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:28,340 for that for as long as you can 331 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:30,180 keep it running, because what we're doing is 332 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:33,780 we're soaking up all the money into this 333 00:12:33,780 --> 00:12:37,880 circular AI economy where just everything is being 334 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,100 sent to the next guy and eventually comes 335 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:42,540 back to NVIDIA. 336 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:43,820 And then it goes out again. 337 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:44,760 It goes even up. 338 00:12:45,020 --> 00:12:48,320 I mean, even that new humanoid robot thing 339 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,700 that everyone was looking at. 340 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:51,560 Oh yeah. 341 00:12:51,860 --> 00:12:54,680 Neo, Neo, the stupid robot with an anonymous 342 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,600 Indian controlling it from Bangladesh. 343 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,200 It's Amazon, walk in, grab your grocery, 2 344 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,820 .0. $129 million, both rounds led by open 345 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:06,100 AI. 346 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:06,980 I mean, come on. 347 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,020 It's like the money is just circulating. 348 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:09,560 Yeah, sure. 349 00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:10,280 So, okay. 350 00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:12,080 Well, that's very risky. 351 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,920 And somehow every time it hops from around 352 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,860 the circle, from one company to the next, 353 00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:22,400 everybody gets to record the prior, everybody gets 354 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,300 to record this as an investment, as an 355 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:26,260 asset and not a liability. 356 00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:27,660 You know, that's the beauty of it. 357 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:28,200 Yeah, of course. 358 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:29,200 Magical accounting. 359 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:30,280 Yeah, that's fantastic. 360 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:32,780 But so the answer is AI. 361 00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:34,940 That's, what's going to give us the productivity 362 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,940 in order to grow out of this, grow 363 00:13:39,940 --> 00:13:40,960 out of the problem. 364 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:41,640 Wow. 365 00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:46,840 And so, but some also happened to be 366 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,320 listening to at the same time, that's why 367 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,860 all this stuff sort of piqued my interest 368 00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:51,700 at the same time. 369 00:13:52,460 --> 00:13:54,320 So I happened to be listening to an 370 00:13:54,320 --> 00:14:00,660 old talk by Milton Friedman from 1978, a 371 00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:01,240 speech he gave. 372 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,340 And now I'm not a Milton Friedman fan. 373 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:07,980 I mean, the Chicago School of Economics, I 374 00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:11,900 think is just kind of like mid, but 375 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,780 at the same, you know, I'm more, I 376 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:17,140 would probably be more of an Austrian, but 377 00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:25,120 his theory of, or his explanations of, that 378 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,920 inflation only comes, inflation is anywhere and everywhere 379 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:29,900 a monetary phenomenon. 380 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,440 That is just accepted gospel now. 381 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,100 I mean, it's a provable fact that that 382 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:37,860 is the case. 383 00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:41,020 So regardless of his other, you know, of 384 00:14:41,020 --> 00:14:43,680 his other aspects of his economics, that aspect 385 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,220 is legitimate. 386 00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:46,880 And he happened to be talking, he gave 387 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,360 a talk on inflation and he mentioned this 388 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,240 issue of productivity and growing your way out 389 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,380 of an inflationary trap in Milton Friedman one. 390 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,700 The second argument that will be made, you've 391 00:14:57,700 --> 00:14:59,400 left out of this picture productivity. 392 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,580 In those charts, what was it that I 393 00:15:03,580 --> 00:15:05,000 connected with prices? 394 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,100 It was not simply the quantity of money. 395 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,640 It was a quantity of money per unit 396 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:11,220 of output. 397 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:12,620 And it's true. 398 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,540 Anything that increases output will tend to hold 399 00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:17,240 down prices. 400 00:15:18,620 --> 00:15:20,960 And so it's very common for people to 401 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,880 say, well, the real source of inflation is 402 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,540 that our productivity has not been increasing as 403 00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:29,360 much as it should. 404 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:31,880 Or to say that the real cure for 405 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,800 inflation is to increase productivity. 406 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:39,440 Now, productivity is an enormously important phenomenon from 407 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:40,900 the point of view of our standard of 408 00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:42,820 life, of how well we live. 409 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,700 There's nothing that's more important. 410 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,320 If we can get a rate of real 411 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,040 growth of 3% instead of 2%, that 412 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,660 will make a great difference over a period 413 00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:54,160 of time. 414 00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:57,200 And I don't doubt that one of our 415 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,080 national problems is a fall off in the 416 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,000 growth and productivity. 417 00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:03,780 But from the point of view of inflation, 418 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:05,960 it's the wrong order of magnitude. 419 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:10,800 It would be a tremendous achievement to raise 420 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,180 the average rate of growth of real output 421 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:14,900 in this country from 3% a year 422 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:15,800 to 4% a year. 423 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,820 That would be a 33 1⁄3% increase. 424 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,280 It would be a dramatic change. 425 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,200 But it would reduce the rate of inflation 426 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,820 by one percentage point a year. 427 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,180 And from that point of view, the possible 428 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:33,260 variations in the quantity of money are much 429 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:37,280 greater than the variations in output and productivity. 430 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,880 So from the point of view of inflation, 431 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,640 productivity is very much of a bid actor 432 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:45,460 on the stage. 433 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,840 The lead, the hero or the villain, as 434 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,140 you wish it, is not productivity, but what 435 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:54,800 happens to the quantity of money. 436 00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:58,940 Oh, he kind of screwed me at the 437 00:16:58,940 --> 00:16:59,260 end. 438 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:00,320 Why? 439 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,580 Well, he says it's not productivity, but it's 440 00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:03,660 the quantity of money. 441 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:04,819 Right. 442 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,640 Because I was gonna say that when it 443 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,720 comes to productivity, first of all, restarting manufacturing 444 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,140 in America, even if it's just rare earth, 445 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,619 any kind of manufacturing that increases our own 446 00:17:16,619 --> 00:17:17,119 productivity. 447 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,740 On the other hand, I'll say that even 448 00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:23,300 though they're losing money on me, that my 449 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:27,119 vibe coding has indeed increased the output of 450 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,760 productivity because I only have one Dave Jones, 451 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,120 he's working on something else. 452 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,380 I am being productive in ways I couldn't 453 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:36,460 have been before regardless of whether it's costing 454 00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:39,180 Elon Musk way more than I'm paying him, 455 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:40,300 which is currently nothing. 456 00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:41,580 Right. 457 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,600 But for every one Adam Curry, there's 14 458 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,700 ,000 developers laid off at Amazon. 459 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,100 Well, but they can all get a sandwich 460 00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:52,000 here at my house. 461 00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:56,380 See, it's like there's- And they weren't 462 00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:59,280 developers, they were supposed to be administrative. 463 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,960 Well, there's a lot of engineers getting laid 464 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:03,100 off. 465 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,620 This seems to be hitting Twitch particularly hard 466 00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:09,400 and a lot of developers, a lot of 467 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:10,000 engineers. 468 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:17,400 This is, the Amazon's, this is particularly like 469 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,360 the Amazon Twitch and game development side seems 470 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:24,120 to be drastically affected by this latest thing. 471 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:27,260 And this, and I don't know if you 472 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:33,430 saw YouTube, YouTube, their announcement that they were 473 00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:34,930 going to be laying off. 474 00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:39,190 They're doing, well, actually they're, let me quote 475 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:40,890 it accurately, they're doing buyouts. 476 00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:41,690 Yes. 477 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:43,250 And a reorg. 478 00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:46,770 And so they're wanting voluntary buyouts. 479 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:49,810 And so this is what, and the letter 480 00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:53,790 that YouTube CEO put out, I don't know 481 00:18:53,790 --> 00:18:59,650 if we've seen numbers like this before from 482 00:18:59,650 --> 00:18:59,970 them. 483 00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:01,950 He mentioned something in there. 484 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:06,010 And clearly these things don't get, I mean, 485 00:19:06,010 --> 00:19:06,830 these things are leaked. 486 00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,230 They're not, you know, please, they don't get 487 00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:12,130 out without, they're carefully worded so that they 488 00:19:12,130 --> 00:19:12,970 know they're going to get out. 489 00:19:14,350 --> 00:19:17,170 But the CEO of YouTube says, you know, 490 00:19:17,610 --> 00:19:21,050 in this letter, he says, he starts talking 491 00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:22,570 about all their awesomeness. 492 00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:26,510 And then he says, we've built a subscription 493 00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:32,010 engine with over 125 million monthly paid subscriptions 494 00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:34,670 and 8 million YouTube TV subscribers. 495 00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:39,290 I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm 496 00:19:39,290 --> 00:19:41,470 not, I didn't, I wasn't sure if we've 497 00:19:41,470 --> 00:19:45,310 ever seen that 125 million subscriber number for 498 00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:45,750 YouTube. 499 00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:52,370 I mean, it sounds like, I think I've 500 00:19:52,370 --> 00:19:53,550 heard number, maybe not. 501 00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:54,230 Okay. 502 00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:57,730 Yeah, somebody will tell me if I'm wrong. 503 00:19:58,030 --> 00:20:04,210 Hold on a second, 125 million times, what 504 00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:04,430 is it? 505 00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:06,630 It's like 14 bucks a month. 506 00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:07,550 14. 507 00:20:08,590 --> 00:20:09,250 Yeah, so about. 508 00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:10,730 That is. 509 00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:12,930 Be generous and say 2 billion a month 510 00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:14,050 in revenue. 511 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:19,430 Well, 1.75. Yeah, but there's family memberships 512 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:20,410 in there too and stuff that are a 513 00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:20,750 little bit more. 514 00:20:20,910 --> 00:20:22,490 So let's, yeah, you could probably round it 515 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:22,930 up to two. 516 00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:26,690 2 billion and then eight, how many YouTube 517 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:27,210 TV? 518 00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:30,090 YouTube TV is 8 million. 519 00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:34,090 8 million and that's time, but there's a 520 00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:35,910 huge cost associated with that. 521 00:20:36,530 --> 00:20:38,610 Yeah, that's probably very low margin, I would 522 00:20:38,610 --> 00:20:38,910 imagine. 523 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:41,650 Yeah, in fact, they just threw off ESPN 524 00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:43,610 and all Disney stations because they couldn't get 525 00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:46,830 to an agreement on the carriage fee. 526 00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:47,190 Oh really? 527 00:20:47,410 --> 00:20:47,690 Yeah. 528 00:20:47,710 --> 00:20:48,030 Okay. 529 00:20:48,510 --> 00:20:48,790 Yeah. 530 00:20:48,790 --> 00:20:52,850 Yeah, so that's 24 billion a year in 531 00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:54,110 revenue from subscribers. 532 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:55,570 You know. 533 00:20:55,690 --> 00:20:55,910 Yeah. 534 00:20:56,670 --> 00:21:01,030 Let's say that, let's say, and so Spotify, 535 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:04,030 we know those numbers, 88% of their 536 00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:07,230 total revenue comes from subscribers, only 12%, or 537 00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:08,870 it's actually less than 12%, it's like 11 538 00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:09,630 and a half percent. 539 00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:10,550 It comes from advertising. 540 00:21:10,690 --> 00:21:11,330 It comes from advertising. 541 00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:15,290 So let's just say that maybe that's similar 542 00:21:15,290 --> 00:21:16,150 at YouTube. 543 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:19,690 That means they're doing 300 million in ad 544 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:20,530 revenue a month. 545 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:21,770 That's nothing. 546 00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:24,130 On the grand scale, no. 547 00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:27,670 At their scale, at their size, that's very 548 00:21:27,670 --> 00:21:28,090 little. 549 00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:32,190 And so, I mean, I think if you 550 00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:33,990 sort of back your way into these numbers, 551 00:21:34,330 --> 00:21:38,910 that really makes you question, you know, whether 552 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:40,390 they're profitable, number one. 553 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:43,590 And- As a separate business unit, you 554 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:43,770 mean? 555 00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:46,270 Yes, as a standalone unit, yeah. 556 00:21:46,670 --> 00:21:48,410 And, you know, that's all revenue. 557 00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:49,230 That's not income. 558 00:21:49,410 --> 00:21:50,570 I mean, you know, that's- That's not 559 00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:50,910 profit. 560 00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:51,630 That's not profit. 561 00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:52,450 Yeah, that's not profit. 562 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:55,930 So, you know, YouTube doing a reorganization and 563 00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:57,810 asking for buyouts and that kind of thing, 564 00:21:58,330 --> 00:22:02,450 that's, this is all, you know, this is 565 00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:06,970 all pointing to, they're going to be using 566 00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:10,970 AI as the excuse, the enhanced productivity of 567 00:22:10,970 --> 00:22:11,230 AI. 568 00:22:11,410 --> 00:22:12,050 Yeah, that's clear. 569 00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:15,150 Yeah, across the board for all of these 570 00:22:15,150 --> 00:22:16,650 things, that's what you're going to hear that 571 00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:18,610 time after, that's what's going to be said 572 00:22:18,610 --> 00:22:19,370 for everything. 573 00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:24,350 But, you know, really the issue is a 574 00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:29,050 overall slowdown in government spending. 575 00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:30,290 Yes. 576 00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:34,890 Government spending is decaying. 577 00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:36,370 Decelerating. 578 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:39,090 Is decelerating, and that is the only, that 579 00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:46,310 deflation coming from government spending, that deflation is 580 00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:47,570 starting to hit everybody. 581 00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:49,470 Because the only way you keep this whole 582 00:22:49,470 --> 00:22:52,950 machine running is by staying in front of 583 00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:56,670 inflation by outprinting it. 584 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:00,650 And that's, you know, and David Solomon says 585 00:23:00,650 --> 00:23:03,350 as much in number three about who pays. 586 00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:05,230 Number three. 587 00:23:05,690 --> 00:23:06,010 Okay. 588 00:23:07,210 --> 00:23:09,710 But if we continue on the current course 589 00:23:10,290 --> 00:23:13,430 and we don't take the growth level up, 590 00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:15,490 we will, there will be a reckoning in 591 00:23:15,490 --> 00:23:15,670 this. 592 00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:17,610 And the bottom line is we have to 593 00:23:17,610 --> 00:23:19,790 find people, you know, to buy and finance 594 00:23:19,790 --> 00:23:20,490 our debt. 595 00:23:20,810 --> 00:23:23,430 And, you know, ultimately it's not going to 596 00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:24,570 be other people around the world. 597 00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:25,670 If it keeps growing, it's going to turn 598 00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:26,230 to us. 599 00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:28,090 But what happened to stable coin? 600 00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:30,850 Well, he talks about that, he talks about 601 00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:31,210 that too. 602 00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:32,310 Play number four. 603 00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:34,690 I think you have to start, David, with 604 00:23:34,690 --> 00:23:36,490 a point of view that the dollar and 605 00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:38,390 the relationship between currencies fluctuate. 606 00:23:39,410 --> 00:23:40,750 And, you know, the dollar's been on a 607 00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:41,930 pretty good run over a long period of 608 00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:43,750 time, and it's certainly given back this year, 609 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:45,890 given some of the policy actions, some of 610 00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:46,330 the gains. 611 00:23:46,450 --> 00:23:49,470 But fundamentally, the dollar is the reserve currency 612 00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:49,910 of the world. 613 00:23:50,010 --> 00:23:51,830 I don't see anything at the moment that 614 00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:52,490 threatens that. 615 00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:54,870 And even when we were talking about, you 616 00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:57,070 know, debt and, you know, our fiscal debt, 617 00:23:57,410 --> 00:23:58,870 when you get around the world and you 618 00:23:58,870 --> 00:24:00,230 look at all the capital flows around the 619 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:03,450 world, global allocators, 50% of their capital 620 00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:04,430 is coming into the US. 621 00:24:04,550 --> 00:24:06,190 They might be hedging the dollar a little 622 00:24:06,190 --> 00:24:07,690 bit differently now than they might've been for 623 00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:09,770 the last few years, but I think it's 624 00:24:09,770 --> 00:24:10,550 more at the margin. 625 00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:12,550 So I think it's something to watch, but 626 00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:15,690 I'm not concerned that there's some fundamental shift. 627 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:18,330 And actually, when you think about digitization and 628 00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:21,270 tokenization and access to the dollar, you know, 629 00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:23,970 over time, it's actually allowing easier access to 630 00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:25,730 the dollar around the world, which in the 631 00:24:25,730 --> 00:24:27,170 long run is a benefit for the dollar 632 00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:28,390 and the dollar's position in the world. 633 00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:32,130 Okay, tokenization, that's the stable coin gambit, yeah. 634 00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:35,210 50% of the investment around the world 635 00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:36,630 is in, you know- Dollars. 636 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:37,890 50-something is in dollars. 637 00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:40,250 And so how do we get, we need 638 00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:44,150 to get that to be 80%, 90%, 100%. 639 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,790 So you tokenize, yeah. 640 00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:49,790 Do you need a digital dollar to go 641 00:24:49,790 --> 00:24:50,550 out and capture you? 642 00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:52,450 So the way you get out of this 643 00:24:52,450 --> 00:24:54,710 debt trap or stay ahead of it is 644 00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:55,650 you grow the dollar. 645 00:24:56,350 --> 00:24:57,470 It's everything you gotta grow. 646 00:24:57,570 --> 00:24:58,510 You gotta grow, you gotta grow. 647 00:24:58,650 --> 00:25:00,030 That's the only way out of this. 648 00:25:00,070 --> 00:25:01,050 Bigger, bigger, bigger. 649 00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:01,570 More, more. 650 00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:02,410 Yeah, yeah. 651 00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:07,430 And so, I mean, this is coming home 652 00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:09,970 Spotify for creators. 653 00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:12,350 I got an email from them saying that 654 00:25:12,350 --> 00:25:13,970 they were going to- Start charging? 655 00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:15,730 No, no, no, no. 656 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:17,010 I did not, no, not that email. 657 00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:18,410 I got an email saying that they were 658 00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:20,570 gonna kill my account if I didn't go 659 00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:22,030 out there and do some activity on it. 660 00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:22,530 Oh. 661 00:25:22,810 --> 00:25:25,410 Now, this is the first- Because there's 662 00:25:25,410 --> 00:25:27,590 an actual like three bytes that are being 663 00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:28,090 used? 664 00:25:28,270 --> 00:25:28,910 What is that? 665 00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:32,750 I've had an anchor account as just a 666 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:35,070 test, you know, to keep in the background 667 00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:35,670 forever. 668 00:25:36,170 --> 00:25:37,630 I mean, for a long time. 669 00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:38,050 Sure, sure. 670 00:25:38,330 --> 00:25:39,890 And this is the first time I've ever 671 00:25:39,890 --> 00:25:42,370 gotten an email saying that I had to 672 00:25:42,370 --> 00:25:44,090 go be active on my account in order 673 00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:45,330 to- Keep it. 674 00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:46,490 To keep it. 675 00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:47,110 Mm-hmm. 676 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:49,210 I mean, you're just seeing- So they 677 00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:51,210 just wanna shut machines down. 678 00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:54,290 Yeah, and I'm seeing it in the software 679 00:25:54,290 --> 00:25:57,350 industry as a whole in line of business 680 00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:57,710 apps. 681 00:25:57,710 --> 00:26:02,870 I'm seeing, you know, Microsoft went up on 682 00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:03,810 their volume licensing. 683 00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:08,310 Now, this is a four, Microsoft's a $4 684 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:09,630 trillion company. 685 00:26:10,090 --> 00:26:12,990 They make hundreds of billions of dollars in 686 00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:14,010 profit every year. 687 00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:16,770 They went up across the board on their 688 00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:20,270 volume licensing costs 20% this past year. 689 00:26:20,990 --> 00:26:24,310 This is what businesses pay for things like 690 00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:26,650 Windows licenses, Office 365, that kind of thing. 691 00:26:26,650 --> 00:26:28,310 And- 20%. 692 00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:29,050 And guess what? 693 00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:30,650 There's no guarantee it stays up. 694 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:32,030 See Azure this week. 695 00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:33,330 Right, right. 696 00:26:33,570 --> 00:26:36,070 And they're laying off people consistently. 697 00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:36,530 Yeah. 698 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:37,730 You know, because AI. 699 00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:43,230 But so there's, what I'm saying is there 700 00:26:43,230 --> 00:26:46,690 is a reckoning that is happening in slow 701 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:53,510 motion right in front of us with, I 702 00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:56,890 think what this administration has done and that 703 00:26:56,890 --> 00:27:04,990 is inadvertently, I think, expose all the weak 704 00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:07,230 points that everyone thought were there, but were 705 00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:09,910 not, didn't really know how to spot because 706 00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:13,030 global economics is so difficult to understand. 707 00:27:13,150 --> 00:27:14,890 It's such an octopus. 708 00:27:16,030 --> 00:27:18,550 But I think that just slow, if you 709 00:27:18,550 --> 00:27:20,110 just slow, take your foot off the gas 710 00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:24,150 just a hair, all of a sudden, all 711 00:27:24,150 --> 00:27:27,130 the cracks and all the rot starts to 712 00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:27,450 show. 713 00:27:28,570 --> 00:27:31,530 And what is gonna, it is having a 714 00:27:31,530 --> 00:27:35,250 ripple effect across all of these industries. 715 00:27:35,390 --> 00:27:38,230 Podcasting is tied in with all of these. 716 00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:40,490 Podcast advertising and podcast hosting. 717 00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:41,850 Yes, yes. 718 00:27:42,430 --> 00:27:46,770 And so, I mean, this is gonna be 719 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:47,190 rough. 720 00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:49,110 I mean, I think, you know, once these 721 00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:51,830 kinds of things start, it's gonna be, it 722 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:54,630 could be pretty nasty over the next few 723 00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:55,690 months, a few years. 724 00:27:55,690 --> 00:27:59,170 Oh, well, I have my own indicator because 725 00:27:59,170 --> 00:28:01,450 I've been doing it for 18 years and 726 00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:04,950 I can see that people are slower to 727 00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:07,030 part with their money in value for value. 728 00:28:08,530 --> 00:28:10,210 I just see it. 729 00:28:10,570 --> 00:28:13,590 And which, by the way, is one of 730 00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:15,910 the most fantastic things about value for value 731 00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:18,050 because yes, it fluctuates and yes, it goes 732 00:28:18,050 --> 00:28:21,010 down, but it's not like people are on 733 00:28:21,010 --> 00:28:22,470 mass canceling subscriptions. 734 00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:24,870 When they still feel like they get some 735 00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:27,030 value, they send off another, you know, five 736 00:28:27,030 --> 00:28:31,010 or 50 or sometimes $500, but only when 737 00:28:31,010 --> 00:28:31,550 they can. 738 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:33,690 And they email me, hey man, like, I'm 739 00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:34,250 really sorry. 740 00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:36,470 I haven't been able to send anything for 741 00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:36,990 a while. 742 00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:41,430 So John and I both have noticed it. 743 00:28:41,910 --> 00:28:44,310 And you know, I don't think it's a 744 00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:46,690 reduction in quality of the products. 745 00:28:47,570 --> 00:28:50,050 Although some would say because we don't askew 746 00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:51,670 Israel, it is, but I disagree. 747 00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:52,810 Okay. 748 00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:58,990 But you know, that's, I think what we're, 749 00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:03,150 I think that's what we're staring down the 750 00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:03,730 face of. 751 00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:04,290 I agree. 752 00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:06,990 And it makes me think like, I've kind 753 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:09,410 of brought this mindset. 754 00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:11,990 To the boardroom? 755 00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:14,510 Or sort of to, well, to the thought 756 00:29:14,510 --> 00:29:19,650 about value for value, about the Bitcoin, you 757 00:29:19,650 --> 00:29:20,330 know, value tag. 758 00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:21,330 Now I knew we're gonna be talking to 759 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:21,950 Chad today. 760 00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:27,510 And it just made me, I've been thinking 761 00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:33,550 a lot about this and I feel like 762 00:29:33,550 --> 00:29:40,390 it's not inappropriate to have sort of convictions 763 00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:42,230 about things. 764 00:29:43,290 --> 00:29:45,950 And even if nobody, even if other people 765 00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:47,390 don't share those convictions. 766 00:29:48,250 --> 00:29:52,450 And so it's, you know, we've always had 767 00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:56,350 a feeling that Bitcoin was gonna be sort 768 00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:59,230 of a modern hard asset. 769 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:02,810 It would share a use case with gold 770 00:30:04,050 --> 00:30:06,210 and in a way that's easier to get 771 00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:07,190 into and out of. 772 00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:12,570 Now, you know, whether gold, so I mean, 773 00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:14,930 gold has a lot of drawbacks too. 774 00:30:16,050 --> 00:30:17,910 You know, it's, you gotta store it, you 775 00:30:17,910 --> 00:30:18,770 gotta keep it safe. 776 00:30:19,010 --> 00:30:22,870 You can't really ship it very easily without, 777 00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:25,830 you know, heavy insurance and that kind of 778 00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:26,150 thing. 779 00:30:26,270 --> 00:30:30,850 And it's a cumbersome thing to have, but 780 00:30:30,850 --> 00:30:33,350 it always, but it serves a purpose as 781 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:37,550 a hard asset and as a store of 782 00:30:37,550 --> 00:30:38,070 value. 783 00:30:39,230 --> 00:30:45,030 And there was, Bitcoin is sharing that same 784 00:30:45,030 --> 00:30:49,370 role, but in a much more accessible, easier 785 00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:51,850 to get in and out of, you know, 786 00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:52,650 package. 787 00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:57,290 And so I think, you know, what we 788 00:30:57,290 --> 00:31:00,670 felt like early on and why we thought 789 00:31:00,670 --> 00:31:03,710 that Bitcoin was a good thing to do 790 00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:06,550 in podcasting, good thing to support directly in 791 00:31:06,550 --> 00:31:08,930 podcasting was because of its digital nature, because 792 00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:10,890 of its open nature, because it was easy 793 00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:11,830 - Programability. 794 00:31:12,130 --> 00:31:14,490 To plug into program, yeah, programmatically. 795 00:31:16,750 --> 00:31:19,950 And then, but also that it was going 796 00:31:19,950 --> 00:31:21,850 to somehow serve this other role. 797 00:31:22,390 --> 00:31:24,970 And so, you know, a podcaster could say, 798 00:31:25,930 --> 00:31:27,670 you know, could do advertising and could do 799 00:31:27,670 --> 00:31:30,070 lots of different revenue streams, but then also 800 00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:32,250 have this sort of backup strategy. 801 00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:34,410 This is the sort of the retirement account 802 00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:38,510 for a podcaster where they, you know, for 803 00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:40,570 lack of a better terms, you know, stacking 804 00:31:40,570 --> 00:31:41,370 stats or whatever. 805 00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:45,910 They're also getting a stream of Bitcoin in, 806 00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:47,890 which is this hard asset, which is going 807 00:31:47,890 --> 00:31:50,990 to resist inflationary pressure. 808 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:54,530 Yeah, it's volatile, it is, but that's the 809 00:31:54,530 --> 00:31:56,610 nature of a 24-7 hard asset. 810 00:31:56,610 --> 00:31:59,770 Of a true open market without handbrakes, emergency 811 00:31:59,770 --> 00:32:00,710 brakes, of course. 812 00:32:01,430 --> 00:32:05,570 Right, and people pull, the reason gold is 813 00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:07,690 less volatile, even though it has been pretty 814 00:32:07,690 --> 00:32:09,870 nasty the last couple of weeks, even though 815 00:32:09,870 --> 00:32:11,350 the reason gold is less volatile is just 816 00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:12,670 because it's so much harder to get rid 817 00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:12,910 of. 818 00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:13,170 Right. 819 00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:15,190 You know, when you can get rid of 820 00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:20,210 Bitcoin instantly, it's going to swing wildly sometimes. 821 00:32:20,970 --> 00:32:22,590 So anyway, I'm just bringing all that to 822 00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:25,070 the table of like this discussion of, I 823 00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:29,630 think if you sort of eject the growth 824 00:32:29,630 --> 00:32:35,310 mindset and say, well, you know, you can 825 00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:37,630 have a conviction about something, you don't have 826 00:32:37,630 --> 00:32:39,830 to just be open to, okay, well, I 827 00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:41,490 guess we can't do it since we can't 828 00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:43,610 support, and we can't do it unless we 829 00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:46,150 can support every possible currency that exists in 830 00:32:46,150 --> 00:32:48,150 the world and all of them you haven't 831 00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:48,870 even thought of yet. 832 00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:54,450 Well, I mean, still to this day, very 833 00:32:54,450 --> 00:32:57,670 little work has been done on any other 834 00:32:57,670 --> 00:33:03,110 currency, even the dollar, other than Bitcoin. 835 00:33:03,610 --> 00:33:05,430 I'm talking about in the RSS feed, I'm 836 00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:06,350 not talking about platforms. 837 00:33:06,530 --> 00:33:09,390 So you're making a case to keep it 838 00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:10,850 as Bitcoin, is that what I'm hearing? 839 00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:13,590 I think I'm feeling that way. 840 00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:16,730 And I'm not saying reject, you can bring 841 00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:17,870 Chad anytime if you want to. 842 00:33:18,010 --> 00:33:19,490 No, I don't want to, let him sit 843 00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:19,730 there. 844 00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:21,610 I'm free. 845 00:33:22,530 --> 00:33:24,350 Well, you want to play this last Milton 846 00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:25,930 Friedman clip and then we can bring him 847 00:33:25,930 --> 00:33:26,170 in? 848 00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:27,470 Oh, yeah, sure. 849 00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:29,090 What is he saying here? 850 00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:29,670 It's short. 851 00:33:29,790 --> 00:33:30,370 Just play it. 852 00:33:30,770 --> 00:33:34,150 The difficulty of having people to understand monetary 853 00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:35,430 theory is very simple. 854 00:33:35,950 --> 00:33:39,130 And that is that the central banks are 855 00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:40,330 good at press relations. 856 00:33:41,070 --> 00:33:45,730 The central banks hire people and the central 857 00:33:45,730 --> 00:33:48,470 banks employ a large fraction of all economists. 858 00:33:49,770 --> 00:33:52,350 So there is a bias to tell the 859 00:33:52,350 --> 00:33:54,450 case, the story, in a way that is 860 00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:55,890 favorable to the central banks. 861 00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:57,830 Oh, well, of course, that makes nothing but 862 00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:58,170 sense. 863 00:33:58,410 --> 00:33:59,090 Nothing but sense. 864 00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:00,250 By the way- When they all work 865 00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:01,830 for the Fed, then that's what the story 866 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:01,930 is. 867 00:34:01,930 --> 00:34:02,450 Yeah, of course. 868 00:34:02,650 --> 00:34:03,470 So two things. 869 00:34:03,550 --> 00:34:07,449 One, this explains to me immediately why there 870 00:34:07,449 --> 00:34:13,350 is a federal law that no states may 871 00:34:13,350 --> 00:34:16,090 make any laws against AI for 10 years. 872 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:19,620 That was quite controversial. 873 00:34:20,219 --> 00:34:21,380 When did this happen? 874 00:34:21,739 --> 00:34:23,760 That might've been part of the big, beautiful, 875 00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:24,920 one big, beautiful bill. 876 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:25,880 Let me see. 877 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,360 Yeah, I think so. 878 00:34:27,460 --> 00:34:28,420 Let me just double check. 879 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:29,699 Are you kidding me? 880 00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:31,520 No, no, no, no, no, no. 881 00:34:31,659 --> 00:34:32,139 No. 882 00:34:32,139 --> 00:34:32,739 Oh, that's great. 883 00:34:33,179 --> 00:34:33,699 Let me see. 884 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:39,020 No state laws against AI for 10 years. 885 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,880 Where did that come from? 886 00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:43,580 Let's see. 887 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,739 They said, Spencer said they're edging Chad. 888 00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:52,260 Hold on. 889 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:53,739 Oh, I'm on expert mode. 890 00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:54,860 So it's going to take a second. 891 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:57,360 Expert mode on Grok is a piece of 892 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:57,820 crap. 893 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,100 I've been doing an interface today. 894 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,960 And I said, change the color. 895 00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:07,700 And then none of the buttons would work. 896 00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:08,920 You know, it's like- Oh, cool. 897 00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:10,140 How hard can it be? 898 00:35:10,140 --> 00:35:10,920 They sure do look good. 899 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:12,520 How hard can it be? 900 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,700 Don't change anything except the color. 901 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,500 Well, I changed the color and I changed 902 00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:18,940 the way the CSS- No, no. 903 00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:21,840 Just give me the code for dark. 904 00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:23,020 Productive. 905 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:23,780 Do you feel productive? 906 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,300 Do you feel very much more productive? 907 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,840 Well, again, I feel more productive than having 908 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:29,700 no Dave Jones. 909 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,220 That's true. 910 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:32,960 So there's a point. 911 00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:34,320 Oh, it's going to take a long time 912 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:34,480 here. 913 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,580 Thank you, Mike Newman. 914 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:37,560 Let's bring in Chad. 915 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,840 Let's bring in the man of many wallets, 916 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,880 ladies and gentlemen, the one, the only, Chad 917 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,360 F. 918 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:45,820 Hey, guys. 919 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:46,700 Hey, Chad. 920 00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:47,780 How are you? 921 00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:50,140 I'm the man of many wallets. 922 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:50,560 I like that. 923 00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:51,360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 924 00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:52,800 I'm good. 925 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,260 It's really weird being here, to be honest. 926 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,320 Oh, well, we love having you here, man. 927 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,740 And I think I said on the last 928 00:36:00,740 --> 00:36:04,020 board meeting that when I heard your voice 929 00:36:04,020 --> 00:36:05,940 on the demo you did of one of 930 00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:08,880 your V4V music wallets, I'm like, that guy 931 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,200 doesn't sound like I envisioned Chad's voice sounding 932 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:12,940 at all. 933 00:36:13,780 --> 00:36:16,660 It almost sounded like you thought I sounded 934 00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:18,540 like Todd Cochran for a second. 935 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:19,340 Oh, no, no. 936 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,680 I just thought you were like a really 937 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,600 wimpy, whiny voice, but you're not. 938 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:24,300 Well, thanks. 939 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,740 This says a lot, doesn't it? 940 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:30,120 Yeah. 941 00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:33,080 Hey, I'll take that. 942 00:36:34,020 --> 00:36:36,220 Well, we're glad to have you here, man, 943 00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:36,760 for sure. 944 00:36:36,980 --> 00:36:39,000 Because you have been doing, you've been doing 945 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,880 just Yeoman's work on testing out everything to 946 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,840 see if we can, well, I'm going to, 947 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,360 I'll set it up and then you can 948 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:48,800 tell us. 949 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,580 But to me, once Key Send started to 950 00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:54,780 become an issue and we started talking about 951 00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:56,580 it, you went on a very long journey, 952 00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:59,400 months and months, I would say, of trying 953 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,000 to find first ways to make Key Send 954 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:02,440 work. 955 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,060 And I think you've now switched to, okay, 956 00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,560 how can we make Bell and Address's work? 957 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,720 And with some focus on sovereignty and being 958 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,180 self-hosted, I think you've probably let that 959 00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:17,120 slip a little bit. 960 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:21,560 And you've come up with solutions and you're 961 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,340 really looking at everything just in any attempt 962 00:37:26,340 --> 00:37:28,180 to continue to make this work. 963 00:37:28,260 --> 00:37:30,860 The biggest issue, I think, being metadata. 964 00:37:31,180 --> 00:37:32,300 Does that kind of sum it up? 965 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,940 Yeah, but actually the wallet journey has been, 966 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:44,260 I guess, really ever since we switched from 967 00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:47,640 LNPay to Albi, because I know how much 968 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:48,720 of a pain that was. 969 00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:53,080 And we've always been, like, personally, I've been 970 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,980 looking for an Albi alternative for the last 971 00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:56,300 three years. 972 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,680 And I still don't really have one. 973 00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:05,260 Yeah, I don't see one out there, you 974 00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:05,400 know? 975 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,700 Yeah, well, and- You mean like a 976 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:09,860 drop-in API replacement type thing? 977 00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:16,420 Um, there's wallets out there. 978 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,360 So like that music demo app you referenced 979 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,480 that uses the- The Breeze Spark wallet. 980 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,320 Yeah, and that was, like, I added that 981 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,100 to an app that I already had within 982 00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,960 a couple hours of vibe coding. 983 00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:36,580 And that was really just dropping the GitHub 984 00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:38,580 in and kind of getting it to work. 985 00:38:38,580 --> 00:38:41,900 So that works. 986 00:38:44,220 --> 00:38:47,660 And there are other wallets that work, but 987 00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:49,080 none of them do Keysend. 988 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:54,640 So you can, like, I can, anyone can 989 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,460 go and build, like, a new podcast app 990 00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:02,200 or a music app using the, like, 30 991 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,120 ,000 value-enabled feeds in the index. 992 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,260 But they all have Keysend, so you can't 993 00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:11,760 pay them. 994 00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:16,040 That may, that is going to be changing 995 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:22,480 as, as my understanding is that Fountain is 996 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,980 going to start, you know, changing those feeds 997 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:28,900 to have a LN address. 998 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:34,040 Because I, you know, I spoke with, Oscar 999 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,500 reached out to me to make sure that 1000 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:40,320 the APIs were right for him to make 1001 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:40,880 those changes. 1002 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,520 So I think, I think they're going to 1003 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,780 retroactively, at least for all the stuff that 1004 00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:48,300 Fountain, all the podcasters that Fountain hosts, they're 1005 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,320 going to start changing that. 1006 00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:52,340 So it really, it would be, I guess 1007 00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:54,360 the other major sources would probably be, what, 1008 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:59,560 Wavelake, and then all the self-hosters, LN 1009 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:00,040 Beats. 1010 00:40:01,660 --> 00:40:04,600 Yeah, because really, like, even that demo app 1011 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,220 basically uses Fountain music feeds because they don't 1012 00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:10,120 have any Keysend. 1013 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:19,480 So Fountain changes and probably most, probably most 1014 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,620 podcasters are using a Fountain feed anyhow. 1015 00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:27,400 So even if they're using, like, Podhome or 1016 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,680 someone else, I would assume that Fountain would 1017 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,120 just fix that somehow, but that's, I mean, 1018 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,400 that's really on the host, honestly. 1019 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:41,880 Like if they're making feeds for people with 1020 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,980 like value tags on them, it's kind of 1021 00:40:45,980 --> 00:40:47,920 up to them to pick what they put 1022 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:48,240 in them. 1023 00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:49,500 Right. 1024 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,520 Honestly, and then the self-hosters, which is 1025 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,740 the camp I'm in. 1026 00:40:57,060 --> 00:41:01,560 So like I'm running a lightning node with 1027 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,960 Albie Hub and it's, as a listener, it's 1028 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,840 the best setup I've ever had. 1029 00:41:09,740 --> 00:41:12,800 All of my sending payments show up in 1030 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,500 Albie Hub and I mean, they show up 1031 00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:19,420 in Albie Hub and Helipad. 1032 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,600 And without me having Albie Hub, I wouldn't 1033 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,740 have been able to do any of this 1034 00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:28,700 testing that I have just because it's. 1035 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,100 Yeah, it's a Swiss army knife. 1036 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,140 You got everything in there. 1037 00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:35,600 Yeah, like it's just been, it's been working 1038 00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:38,720 and it's been battle tested and the apps 1039 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:39,680 are set up for it. 1040 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,220 So kind of all of that said, like 1041 00:41:43,220 --> 00:41:47,980 the current, like the current model works and 1042 00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:50,000 we can build new apps, but any new 1043 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,680 apps need to support Albie or use Albie 1044 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,460 to pay most of the splits, I guess, 1045 00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:03,820 because like you could build a new app 1046 00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:06,540 right now and like all the payments are 1047 00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:08,080 just gonna fail if you try like a, 1048 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,840 just say like a CoinOS wallet or like 1049 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,800 Primal or anything. 1050 00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:14,640 So those are not. 1051 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,880 Those are not KeySand, right? 1052 00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:16,120 Yeah. 1053 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,240 Correct, yeah, because none of them, trust me, 1054 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:22,620 I've tested them all and Albie's the only 1055 00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:23,340 thing we have. 1056 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,660 So all of that said, we, if I 1057 00:42:31,660 --> 00:42:32,920 had to boil all this down, I would 1058 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,020 say we need to change, we need to 1059 00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:39,460 move away from KeySand addresses in the feeds. 1060 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,880 Yeah, right. 1061 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,680 And I know that has metadata issues, but 1062 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,640 honestly, I don't care about that because we 1063 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,860 need to be sending payments before we can 1064 00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:53,320 send the message. 1065 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,760 Because a couple of years ago we had 1066 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,760 Boost before we had BoosterGrams. 1067 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,080 Yep. 1068 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:00,460 Right. 1069 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,340 And all the other Strike or basically all 1070 00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:07,960 the other stuff, it just needs to be 1071 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,260 put off for now. 1072 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,160 Like we need to focus on sending payments 1073 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,080 because ever since we switched to Albie, say 1074 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,960 three years ago, everyone's been saying that we 1075 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,220 need an Albie alternative, but no Albie alternative 1076 00:43:24,220 --> 00:43:30,440 exists because of no other wallets do KeySand, 1077 00:43:31,340 --> 00:43:33,900 but the feeds have KeySand so you can't 1078 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:35,300 use other wallets anyhow. 1079 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,840 So it's like a, it's a standoff. 1080 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,420 And we always say that the feed is 1081 00:43:44,420 --> 00:43:45,400 the source of truth. 1082 00:43:46,220 --> 00:43:48,780 So if you're a podcaster and you have 1083 00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:52,360 a, I mean, you pick what you want 1084 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:52,960 in your feed. 1085 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,140 Like if your feed has KeySand, then you're 1086 00:43:58,140 --> 00:44:00,840 going to have to tell your audience how 1087 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,400 to pay that or if it's a fountain 1088 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,460 or whatever, like it's kind of on the, 1089 00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:11,100 like it's really on the podcasters, to be 1090 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:12,080 honest, if we're going to. 1091 00:44:12,140 --> 00:44:15,240 Well, Dave, if you did a search right 1092 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:18,620 now, I'm pretty sure that almost 90% 1093 00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:23,760 of all podcast wallet addresses in the feeds 1094 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,100 are a fountain. 1095 00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:29,460 I'm just going to guess. 1096 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,380 Well, but see, but even like even the 1097 00:44:32,380 --> 00:44:34,420 fountain feeds, like if you use, if you 1098 00:44:34,420 --> 00:44:37,380 use sovereign feeds, well, okay, so if you're 1099 00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:39,240 using a fountain address and if you use 1100 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,080 sovereign feeds, it still puts the KeySand information 1101 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,900 in the RSS feed. 1102 00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:48,180 I understand, but everyone has to change that. 1103 00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:51,880 I mean, we've even slowly changed and that'll 1104 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,400 just, it's going to be painful, but that's 1105 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,120 just it. 1106 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,920 I mean, I've switched almost everything over to 1107 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,620 LNURL for this podcast. 1108 00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:09,000 Yeah, and all of the current apps that 1109 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:15,460 use Albi minus Podverse have updated to support 1110 00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:17,300 LN address. 1111 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,220 So if you would, so if you would 1112 00:45:21,220 --> 00:45:23,080 move, I'm going to try to think how 1113 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:23,740 I want to say this. 1114 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,640 I guess, so if you're running Node now, 1115 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:31,940 you're running Albi Hub, you put your Albi 1116 00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:35,280 address in your feed, the apps can still 1117 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:35,620 pay it. 1118 00:45:35,780 --> 00:45:37,840 So basically if you switch from KeySand to 1119 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,200 an LN address, all of the apps minus 1120 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,400 Podverse can pay them just fine. 1121 00:45:45,860 --> 00:45:50,900 So like we can make this transition and 1122 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:56,420 we know that the new Lightning addresses work 1123 00:45:56,420 --> 00:45:59,020 in the feeds, because like I've tested Strike. 1124 00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:00,640 Yeah, it works fine. 1125 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,580 Yeah, Cash App and other ones. 1126 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,020 So like the feeds are okay and the 1127 00:46:07,020 --> 00:46:11,820 apps can handle paying those because they use 1128 00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:12,200 Albi. 1129 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,200 So like we can transition and then once, 1130 00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:20,520 like once we kind of get more feeds 1131 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,340 changed over, then we can start adding maybe 1132 00:46:24,340 --> 00:46:28,240 more wallets into the apps and then worry 1133 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:32,140 about the metadata and seeing how we tie 1134 00:46:32,140 --> 00:46:33,160 other things in. 1135 00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:35,800 Yeah, I'm with you on the metadata. 1136 00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:40,180 I mean, I will miss it very much 1137 00:46:40,180 --> 00:46:42,600 until we get it kind of working for 1138 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,420 live shows because it's really cool to have 1139 00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:47,600 stuff coming in live. 1140 00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:52,020 I completely agree, but no agenda now is 1141 00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:56,020 accepting Bitcoin payments through Lightning and it's in 1142 00:46:56,020 --> 00:46:59,730 the feed as a Strike address. 1143 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,620 And I'm sure we're missing some things, but 1144 00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:08,160 in general, the actual booster grams are very 1145 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,180 low, but we've had several thousand dollar payments 1146 00:47:12,180 --> 00:47:15,300 come through Strike and people just send us 1147 00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:15,720 an email. 1148 00:47:17,140 --> 00:47:19,760 Yeah, that's what I was thinking a while 1149 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,060 ago when Chad was describing the issues. 1150 00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:27,300 It's like, if we, the cliff we're running, 1151 00:47:27,460 --> 00:47:30,180 the cliff that we're about to run off 1152 00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:33,440 of is the, first of all, is the 1153 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,580 KeySend cliff. 1154 00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:38,540 And so if we fix that first, then 1155 00:47:38,540 --> 00:47:42,480 I feel like, so if we go through 1156 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:48,720 all the feeds, here's what I think I 1157 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:49,200 should do. 1158 00:47:50,940 --> 00:47:53,120 I feel like I should go through and 1159 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,760 just dump out a list of all of 1160 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:02,860 the value block feeds in the index and 1161 00:48:02,860 --> 00:48:06,200 then group them by top level domain. 1162 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,400 So all the feeds that are hosted at 1163 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,180 Fountain, Wavelake, LN Beats, blah, blah, blah, just 1164 00:48:14,180 --> 00:48:16,440 and say, okay, and just get sort of 1165 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,680 like a list that says percentage-wise, here's 1166 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,860 from most to least, here's where all, here's 1167 00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:29,880 the biggest impact hosting companies that are gonna 1168 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,780 have to, that still have KeySend in there 1169 00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:34,360 that are gonna need to make a change. 1170 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,640 And then just like publish that so that 1171 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,860 we can all see it. 1172 00:48:41,260 --> 00:48:44,520 And then that lets them, that lets the 1173 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,840 people responsible for that know what they need, 1174 00:48:48,180 --> 00:48:49,540 that they need to go in there and 1175 00:48:49,540 --> 00:48:53,160 make changes and try to just keep that 1176 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,820 in front of, in the front of everybody's 1177 00:48:55,820 --> 00:48:59,260 mind until we get like, until we get 1178 00:48:59,260 --> 00:49:01,120 a lot of, until we get people solving 1179 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:01,960 their problem. 1180 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,600 Yeah, and I have seen multiple podcast guru 1181 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,120 metadata booster grams that come through on Strike 1182 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,800 and it has a URL, same as Fountain. 1183 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,320 And so, these systems are being tested and 1184 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,760 built, which I'm extremely delighted by. 1185 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,920 Actually, I think the Fountain ones, I think 1186 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,860 they're just a link to the episode in 1187 00:49:27,860 --> 00:49:30,120 Fountain, but I could be wrong. 1188 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,000 But the podcast guru ones are a link 1189 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,460 to like a webpage for podcast guru and 1190 00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:40,360 it has what looks like the TLV records. 1191 00:49:40,820 --> 00:49:42,540 I also got one here from Castamatic. 1192 00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:47,560 Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure what Frank 1193 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,960 is doing yet, but I know the podcast 1194 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,020 guru guys have been playing around with just 1195 00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:59,780 putting a URL in like the metadata or 1196 00:49:59,780 --> 00:50:00,040 whatever. 1197 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,320 And sending that along. 1198 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,940 Right, so the metadata is like, you just 1199 00:50:04,940 --> 00:50:06,380 link out to it and it's readable? 1200 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,340 Is that the way it is? 1201 00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:12,120 Yeah, basically, and then I guess like if, 1202 00:50:12,380 --> 00:50:16,540 like in Adam's example of using Strike to 1203 00:50:16,540 --> 00:50:20,280 receive payments for no agenda, like Strike's not 1204 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,440 going to let you tie in to get 1205 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:22,900 that data. 1206 00:50:23,580 --> 00:50:25,960 So I think that data needs to be 1207 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:26,320 sent. 1208 00:50:26,780 --> 00:50:27,520 Somewhere else. 1209 00:50:27,940 --> 00:50:32,680 Like, whoa, 10,000 sats, thank you very 1210 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:33,100 much. 1211 00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:36,760 Which I'm guessing that's up to the, I'm 1212 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,500 guessing that's up to the podcast apps, like. 1213 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,940 Alex is running, you know, Alex is building 1214 00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:44,780 the MetaBoost spec to give us an API, 1215 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,120 like a Swagger, you know, API to get, 1216 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,580 to send the metadata and then we can 1217 00:50:51,580 --> 00:50:54,380 all just write to that interface and then 1218 00:50:54,380 --> 00:50:56,580 on the back end, you can push to 1219 00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:57,640 wherever you want it to be. 1220 00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,880 If that's, you know, Nostr, if that's Nostr 1221 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:00,940 or somewhere else. 1222 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,980 I got, I have Fountain, yeah, you're right, 1223 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:03,280 Chad. 1224 00:51:03,420 --> 00:51:06,820 They send you a URL to the Boost, 1225 00:51:06,820 --> 00:51:08,300 the Boostagram on Fountain. 1226 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,920 And so I got one here and it 1227 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,960 took me right to Comix or Blogger's Boostagram. 1228 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,080 So I can read it right there. 1229 00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:19,620 Yeah. 1230 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:20,260 All right. 1231 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,080 Yeah, I wasn't sure if it went to 1232 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:23,420 like the episode page or if it went 1233 00:51:23,420 --> 00:51:26,380 right to the, right to the Boost, but 1234 00:51:26,380 --> 00:51:27,680 okay, that's good to know. 1235 00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:29,020 Yeah, yeah. 1236 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:30,340 So that's looking good. 1237 00:51:30,860 --> 00:51:32,240 What I was saying earlier, the kind of 1238 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:34,580 where I was going with all that discussion, 1239 00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:37,560 you know, previously is where, is that I 1240 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,320 think that we're just, at some point you 1241 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,460 can't avoid having some, being opinionated about stuff. 1242 00:51:45,060 --> 00:51:48,900 And we, I think we've always tried and 1243 00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:51,740 actually we've gotten criticism for this too. 1244 00:51:51,740 --> 00:51:54,560 We've tried to be so open and so 1245 00:51:54,560 --> 00:52:00,040 accommodating to every possible protocol to where, you 1246 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,880 know, like when you, for instance, the social 1247 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,000 interact tag, you know, it's made to be 1248 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,080 where you can just plug anything into it. 1249 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,440 You don't, we never said, okay, you must 1250 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,020 use ActivityPub or you must use this or 1251 00:52:14,020 --> 00:52:14,320 that. 1252 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,300 But so we tried, instead we tried to 1253 00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:18,780 make it where it was just as open 1254 00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:20,400 as possible and pluggable. 1255 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,840 But I think, you know, and that's fine. 1256 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,080 I still think that's the right approach most 1257 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:26,860 of the time. 1258 00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:32,020 But when it comes to, but then you 1259 00:52:32,020 --> 00:52:33,180 have to, then you step back and you 1260 00:52:33,180 --> 00:52:35,280 look and you say, okay, it's been five 1261 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:35,720 years. 1262 00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:39,820 And the only people who are using the 1263 00:52:39,820 --> 00:52:44,000 value tag in anything like, the only people 1264 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,220 using it period are Bitcoin people. 1265 00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:51,000 So it doesn't mean you stop, it doesn't 1266 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,300 mean we're gonna, you know, that we all 1267 00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:54,220 change the spec to where it doesn't accept 1268 00:52:54,220 --> 00:52:55,160 anything but Bitcoin. 1269 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,800 It just means that I think like we 1270 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,640 can safely say at this point in the 1271 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:07,400 game, let's focus on Bitcoin and solve this 1272 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,280 problem and make sure that it works because 1273 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,080 it's just, it's been in a broken state 1274 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:16,460 for months now, sort of. 1275 00:53:16,460 --> 00:53:18,540 And it's just sort of limping along. 1276 00:53:18,700 --> 00:53:22,460 And I think we need to like, I'm 1277 00:53:22,460 --> 00:53:25,100 kind of speaking just from my own mind 1278 00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:25,320 here. 1279 00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:28,180 I'm talking this out myself so that I 1280 00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:31,800 understand what I'm planning to do and say, 1281 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,480 well, this is, I'm not gonna feel bad 1282 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,260 about just digging in and making sure that 1283 00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:41,560 we fix the Bitcoin part. 1284 00:53:43,470 --> 00:53:49,060 You know, I don't, anything else, trying to 1285 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:52,680 say, oh, well, they dropped KeySend or they're 1286 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,060 not, they dropped, but like nobody supports KeySend 1287 00:53:55,060 --> 00:53:57,700 for normal wallets. 1288 00:53:57,820 --> 00:54:01,320 So let's switch to stable coin or let's 1289 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:02,680 try to figure out how to cram the 1290 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,260 dollar into this thing or whatever. 1291 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,740 I mean, I just don't think that's useful. 1292 00:54:08,980 --> 00:54:10,280 I think we just need to double down 1293 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,040 on the people who clearly love and use 1294 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,140 this thing all the time. 1295 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:19,500 Yeah, and like you say that Bitcoiners are 1296 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:23,680 using this and Bitcoiners are just happy with 1297 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,480 whatever Fountain decides to do. 1298 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,660 And I like the direction Oscar's going. 1299 00:54:30,780 --> 00:54:33,120 I might not, I might not agree with 1300 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,340 it, like with the Nostr stuff fully, but 1301 00:54:38,340 --> 00:54:45,320 like the bit, the quote unquote Bitcoiners are 1302 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,180 only using Fountain and they'll just do whatever 1303 00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:50,640 Fountain tells them to do. 1304 00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:55,380 And my focus is on those of us 1305 00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:59,520 that have been here all five years and 1306 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,340 wanna help all of the apps do this, 1307 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,540 not just Fountain. 1308 00:55:05,380 --> 00:55:08,440 Like I want, like I wanna help Franco, 1309 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,780 wanna help the guys that, you know, podcast 1310 00:55:10,780 --> 00:55:14,480 guru, Mitch over at Podverse, Stephen B at 1311 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,180 CurioCaster. 1312 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,660 So like, I'm like, I kind of see 1313 00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:25,020 how like, like moving away from KeySend is 1314 00:55:25,020 --> 00:55:26,580 like the first step to fixing all this. 1315 00:55:26,740 --> 00:55:30,380 Like for me, testing and vibe coding stuff, 1316 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,600 if I had more feeds that didn't have 1317 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,860 KeySend, they wouldn't rely on Albi. 1318 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,940 So then I could test, I could test 1319 00:55:41,940 --> 00:55:45,360 with other wallets and maybe that would bring 1320 00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:50,200 more, more people on board because like, I've 1321 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,140 also been working with some Nostr devs and 1322 00:55:53,140 --> 00:55:55,000 one of them built a music app and 1323 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,780 they pulled everything in from the index and 1324 00:55:57,780 --> 00:56:00,760 they said, hey, these all have KeySend payments, 1325 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,720 which requires using Albi Hub and Albi Hub 1326 00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:08,720 isn't really that popular amongst Bitcoiners because even 1327 00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:10,940 they think it's too much to do. 1328 00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:15,280 So he just turns those off. 1329 00:56:15,780 --> 00:56:20,720 So he'll, his app will show all of 1330 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:25,920 the music from the index, but if it's, 1331 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:28,380 basically if you can't send a zap to 1332 00:56:28,380 --> 00:56:32,960 it, it's just turned off because he would 1333 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:37,020 rather turn it off than have an error 1334 00:56:37,020 --> 00:56:37,500 message. 1335 00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:43,180 So it's like, it really just comes back 1336 00:56:43,180 --> 00:56:46,580 to KeySend and like, it doesn't say KeySend 1337 00:56:46,580 --> 00:56:49,080 has to go away because you can, I 1338 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,060 mean, you can still leave KeySend in there 1339 00:56:52,060 --> 00:56:55,760 and just tell people to use Fountain as 1340 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,500 long as they support KeySend and use Albi 1341 00:56:57,500 --> 00:57:00,560 as long as it supports KeySend. 1342 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,620 So it's like, I don't know. 1343 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,280 It comes back to the feeds, I guess, 1344 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,540 is kind of my, if I had to 1345 00:57:07,540 --> 00:57:08,380 sum all this up. 1346 00:57:10,900 --> 00:57:15,200 Well, there's somebody, just trying to figure out 1347 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,080 who this is, somebody in the boardroom, caught, 1348 00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:21,100 maybe it's Cotton Gin saying just use Noster. 1349 00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:26,320 I mean, the problem, I don't want to, 1350 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:31,860 the value tag is supposed to be, it's 1351 00:57:31,860 --> 00:57:34,580 supposed to be a direct interface to the 1352 00:57:34,580 --> 00:57:40,760 currency or to the protocol that controls the 1353 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:41,120 ledger. 1354 00:57:42,220 --> 00:57:47,440 It should not be an interface to an 1355 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:53,200 intermediary platform like Noster that has some then 1356 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,960 depend, that where you have to use Noster 1357 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,920 to get to Bitcoin. 1358 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,500 That's just, I don't think that that makes 1359 00:58:00,500 --> 00:58:01,120 any sense. 1360 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:02,200 I mean, if you're going to use, if 1361 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,500 you're going to do that, just figure out 1362 00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:08,760 how to manipulate like the, just put in 1363 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,680 some podcast TXT records or something like that 1364 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,780 to try to shove that in there or 1365 00:58:16,780 --> 00:58:18,280 put it, figure out how to put it 1366 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,060 in the funding tag or something like that 1367 00:58:20,060 --> 00:58:22,940 in some way. 1368 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,460 But I mean, the value tag itself is 1369 00:58:26,460 --> 00:58:30,540 supposed to be a direct interface to the 1370 00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:34,560 currency ledger tool itself. 1371 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,540 So that's going to either be directly on 1372 00:58:37,540 --> 00:58:42,700 -chain, lightning, ARK, you know, something like that 1373 00:58:42,700 --> 00:58:43,200 directly. 1374 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,220 I think we have to keep it that 1375 00:58:46,220 --> 00:58:46,440 way. 1376 00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:48,920 It doesn't make any other sense to, I 1377 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,940 do not, I don't think you can, I 1378 00:58:50,940 --> 00:58:53,420 think it's a slippery slope to try to, 1379 00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:55,980 because then why don't you just put like 1380 00:58:55,980 --> 00:58:59,800 a strike directly in there with API calls 1381 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:00,220 or something? 1382 00:59:00,340 --> 00:59:02,340 Like it doesn't make, I think that's a 1383 00:59:02,340 --> 00:59:03,180 dangerous thing to do. 1384 00:59:03,660 --> 00:59:09,240 Yeah, and like, I'm like kind of on 1385 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,960 the fence with Noster, but like it keeps 1386 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:13,500 coming up. 1387 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,380 So like it being used for the metadata, 1388 00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:20,860 I do like, because I've added Oscar's proposal 1389 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,220 to some of my apps, so I can 1390 00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:26,500 send a boost and it goes to Helipad 1391 00:59:26,500 --> 00:59:27,340 like it does now. 1392 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,680 And it also posts to Noster. 1393 00:59:30,700 --> 00:59:33,100 So that's like, that's a nice option, but 1394 00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:34,980 that's only like one of three options we 1395 00:59:34,980 --> 00:59:35,720 have for the metadata. 1396 00:59:36,060 --> 00:59:38,800 So it's like that and then ActivityPub or 1397 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,200 the MetaBoost and I don't know, everyone's going 1398 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:43,840 to just argue between the three of those. 1399 00:59:43,980 --> 00:59:46,360 And so I don't, I'm not really worried 1400 00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:46,460 about that. 1401 00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:48,540 I'm not really worried because that's not, yeah, 1402 00:59:48,620 --> 00:59:50,660 something I'm worried about. 1403 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,160 But then Noster also adds Noster Wallet Connect 1404 00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:57,300 that I'm a huge fan of because that 1405 00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:00,840 adding just that. 1406 01:00:01,260 --> 01:00:03,000 Good tech, unfortunate name. 1407 01:00:03,580 --> 01:00:06,600 Yeah, but names don't matter, but. 1408 01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:09,880 Right, I'm just saying people immediately think it's 1409 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,360 a, they need a relay and all that. 1410 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,980 Yeah, but I don't know how heavy of 1411 01:00:14,980 --> 01:00:17,060 a load that is for apps to add. 1412 01:00:17,380 --> 01:00:19,320 None of them, like Franco's kind of played 1413 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,340 around with it, but he doesn't really, just 1414 01:00:23,340 --> 01:00:25,420 from what I've seen him post, it kind 1415 01:00:25,420 --> 01:00:27,180 of sounds like it's like too heavy of 1416 01:00:27,180 --> 01:00:30,540 a load for him to add to Castamatic, 1417 01:00:31,300 --> 01:00:32,600 which it might be, I don't know. 1418 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:38,200 But NWC like lets us use, I don't 1419 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,880 know, maybe a dozen wallets and you just 1420 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,000 kind of copy and paste a string in. 1421 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,040 And if you lose that string, you just 1422 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:47,980 burn it. 1423 01:00:48,540 --> 01:00:55,080 So it's like the metadata and Noster Wallet 1424 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,500 Connect are like the two things from Noster 1425 01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,180 that I like. 1426 01:01:00,740 --> 01:01:04,020 But then again, Noster Wallet Connect, those wallets 1427 01:01:04,020 --> 01:01:04,900 don't do keysend. 1428 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,320 So unless it's Albi, but I don't know. 1429 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,800 But outside of, so if you want to 1430 01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:19,100 build something, I guess even the current apps, 1431 01:01:19,220 --> 01:01:20,480 like if you want to build a new 1432 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:27,420 app as a Indy 5 coding dev, you 1433 01:01:27,420 --> 01:01:33,480 support Albi like we do now, NWC, or 1434 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,140 you try this Breeze SDK that I've been 1435 01:01:36,140 --> 01:01:36,940 playing around with. 1436 01:01:37,780 --> 01:01:38,900 How do you like that? 1437 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:49,760 It's actually pretty slick because it's similar to 1438 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,200 how Breeze used to be, where the Breeze 1439 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:59,820 wallet added podcasting to the app. 1440 01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:04,940 But with this Spark SDK, you can kind 1441 01:02:04,940 --> 01:02:06,220 of take that and you can flip it 1442 01:02:06,940 --> 01:02:10,500 where it's a podcasting app with the wallet 1443 01:02:10,500 --> 01:02:11,340 baked in. 1444 01:02:12,140 --> 01:02:12,420 Hmm. 1445 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:19,020 So basically you just hit make wallet and 1446 01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:22,460 it just spits out 12 words and you 1447 01:02:22,460 --> 01:02:24,020 have it and you write those 12 words 1448 01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:24,380 down. 1449 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,440 And if you lose them, you're screwed. 1450 01:02:28,180 --> 01:02:28,740 Right. 1451 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:30,900 But so you spin that up. 1452 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,040 But you don't need to manage liquidity or 1453 01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:32,280 anything? 1454 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:37,400 No, that's all done through Breeze because you'll 1455 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,780 connect it and it takes a couple seconds 1456 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,420 and it connects there. 1457 01:02:42,860 --> 01:02:46,620 And then you top it up like you 1458 01:02:46,620 --> 01:02:47,540 always do now. 1459 01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:51,720 And I mean, it's almost just like how 1460 01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,440 Albi has always been. 1461 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,340 But the only thing I- I think 1462 01:02:58,340 --> 01:03:00,360 what Dave is just going back to what 1463 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,420 Dave said initially is if we just take 1464 01:03:02,420 --> 01:03:05,700 a stand and say, okay, here's what we're 1465 01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:08,600 doing to fix this since it's been several 1466 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,380 years, five years, and no alternative currency has 1467 01:03:13,380 --> 01:03:17,900 been added into the system, I think we 1468 01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:20,360 just need to stop worrying about normies. 1469 01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:25,780 Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. 1470 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,820 You know, just stop worrying about it because 1471 01:03:27,820 --> 01:03:30,580 normies will either become non-normies or they 1472 01:03:30,580 --> 01:03:31,000 won't. 1473 01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:35,840 And personally, I mean, I've onboarded a lot 1474 01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,880 of people into Bitcoin and they consider themselves 1475 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,460 to be hodlers, but they still, and there's 1476 01:03:42,460 --> 01:03:43,440 always going to be trouble. 1477 01:03:43,580 --> 01:03:46,600 They have problems figuring it out, getting it 1478 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,040 from strike into fountain, connecting. 1479 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:50,540 I mean, you would just connecting. 1480 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,740 I mean, this is just life. 1481 01:03:53,020 --> 01:03:54,080 That's just what it is. 1482 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:55,380 Yeah, it's part of it. 1483 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,420 And, you know, topping up and buying your 1484 01:03:58,420 --> 01:03:59,660 sats and all this stuff. 1485 01:03:59,980 --> 01:04:03,020 And as I've always said, it always comes 1486 01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:05,780 down to the podcasters explaining that to their 1487 01:04:05,780 --> 01:04:07,360 audience over and over again. 1488 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:08,460 And people will do it. 1489 01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:10,300 They will try. 1490 01:04:10,540 --> 01:04:12,020 They will really try to do it. 1491 01:04:12,860 --> 01:04:16,940 There's just no frictionless world and just look 1492 01:04:16,940 --> 01:04:17,720 at what we're doing. 1493 01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,620 It's amazing any of this stuff works at 1494 01:04:19,620 --> 01:04:20,620 all in my mind. 1495 01:04:21,380 --> 01:04:24,020 It's crazy that this has been created and 1496 01:04:24,020 --> 01:04:24,460 it works. 1497 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,920 And by the way, we got 10,000 1498 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,560 from Castamatic who sent 10,000 sats, says, 1499 01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:31,500 you guys are crazy. 1500 01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:35,520 Hey, no metadata, it's no message, which as 1501 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,320 you know, is a key aspect of the 1502 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,240 value for value feedback loop, which is why 1503 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:40,860 you're keeping key send at the moment. 1504 01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,000 For those of us that have been building 1505 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,280 off this for the last couple of years, 1506 01:04:44,340 --> 01:04:46,120 the messages are absolutely vital. 1507 01:04:46,940 --> 01:04:49,680 Well, yes, the messages are important. 1508 01:04:50,460 --> 01:04:54,360 I assume that came from Franco himself. 1509 01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:57,960 Maybe, I know Franco, well, maybe. 1510 01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:58,380 I don't know. 1511 01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:59,400 Well, maybe, I don't know. 1512 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,260 I just assume, because he said that before 1513 01:05:03,260 --> 01:05:07,840 on the Mastodon, so that's why I was 1514 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:08,060 curious. 1515 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,940 But he's right, but it's an order of 1516 01:05:12,940 --> 01:05:13,800 operations though. 1517 01:05:13,940 --> 01:05:16,040 I mean, like, it doesn't, yes, it's a 1518 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:16,140 message. 1519 01:05:16,140 --> 01:05:18,220 It's not a reason to keep key send. 1520 01:05:18,860 --> 01:05:21,640 Well, right, the reason you do get rid 1521 01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,740 of key, the problem with switching, or the 1522 01:05:25,740 --> 01:05:28,000 reason that you switch from key send to 1523 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,300 LN address is not primarily to get quote, 1524 01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,140 unquote, normies or things like that. 1525 01:05:35,260 --> 01:05:37,820 It's because the writing is on the wall. 1526 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,120 Yeah, because key send is so sparsely supported 1527 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:43,100 amongst wallets. 1528 01:05:44,260 --> 01:05:48,440 People who are Bitcoin people may not have 1529 01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,620 a wallet that supports key send, and they 1530 01:05:50,620 --> 01:05:51,940 want to interface with that. 1531 01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,700 And so there, you need to have that. 1532 01:05:55,580 --> 01:05:59,780 It's keeping even your own rabid fan base 1533 01:05:59,780 --> 01:06:04,520 in some instances from sending you money. 1534 01:06:04,740 --> 01:06:08,280 And going back to the Nostra wars of 1535 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,640 the past, so far Nostra has not come 1536 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,440 up with the promised alternative to value for 1537 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,880 value podcasting, because of course they couldn't, we 1538 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:19,380 knew that. 1539 01:06:20,140 --> 01:06:23,360 But we've also failed in making the payment 1540 01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:24,880 part easy for the Nostra people. 1541 01:06:25,100 --> 01:06:27,080 So, I mean, there's really your opportunity. 1542 01:06:28,100 --> 01:06:31,140 Yeah, well, okay, so assuming that was from 1543 01:06:31,140 --> 01:06:32,680 Franco, which I think it was. 1544 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,600 It doesn't matter to me. 1545 01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:37,780 Well, but okay, I'm just, I've been kind 1546 01:06:37,780 --> 01:06:38,800 of working with him on stuff. 1547 01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:39,840 So he's kind of at the top of 1548 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:46,240 my mind, but if he's building Castamatic, that's 1549 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:46,940 his app. 1550 01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:50,160 If he wants to support key send, he 1551 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,820 can keep Albie in Castamatic. 1552 01:06:54,820 --> 01:06:56,480 And as long as they support key send, 1553 01:06:57,740 --> 01:07:00,320 then like, what's, like, I don't see the 1554 01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:00,680 issue. 1555 01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,740 Because I mean, Albie just, Albie will pay 1556 01:07:04,740 --> 01:07:05,220 anything. 1557 01:07:05,740 --> 01:07:08,840 And if he, FAP devs want to support, 1558 01:07:10,140 --> 01:07:12,300 keep supporting Albie, then that's, I mean, that's 1559 01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:15,400 their, I don't know, I mean, it comes 1560 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,120 down to what they want to do. 1561 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,160 I mean, it really, it comes down to 1562 01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:19,540 what all of us want to do. 1563 01:07:19,540 --> 01:07:23,320 Like every app dev, podcaster. 1564 01:07:23,660 --> 01:07:24,960 Yeah, I'm going to be honest. 1565 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:26,160 This is my life. 1566 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:27,840 I live on value for value. 1567 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:29,060 I live on it. 1568 01:07:29,220 --> 01:07:31,460 That's literally how I pay my mortgage, my 1569 01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:34,900 car, help my kids with their electricity bill. 1570 01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:36,680 I live on this. 1571 01:07:36,740 --> 01:07:38,340 I live and die by it. 1572 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,360 And we still get PayPal's with no note. 1573 01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,260 And you know what they get? 1574 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:44,180 A double up karma. 1575 01:07:44,980 --> 01:07:47,420 And, you know, and notes get lost and 1576 01:07:47,420 --> 01:07:49,040 it's a very convoluted system. 1577 01:07:49,780 --> 01:07:52,800 And it's not always perfect, but it's not 1578 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,180 like the end of the world. 1579 01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:56,760 If I asked John C. 1580 01:07:56,820 --> 01:08:00,060 Dvorak, and it took me 10 years to 1581 01:08:00,060 --> 01:08:03,980 get him to even accept Bitcoin, 10, if 1582 01:08:03,980 --> 01:08:06,780 I asked him, how critical is the note? 1583 01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:08,480 He says, but I don't care at all. 1584 01:08:08,660 --> 01:08:09,600 Just want the money. 1585 01:08:11,140 --> 01:08:13,560 And, you know, so it's not the end 1586 01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:15,720 of the world and we will fix it. 1587 01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:18,640 But in the meantime, you know, in this 1588 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,040 transition period, we have to keep the money 1589 01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,180 flowing and which has stopped, by the way, 1590 01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:28,740 the amount of sats coming into the podcast 1591 01:08:28,740 --> 01:08:31,140 index node is dropped significantly. 1592 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,399 Just fallen off a cliff. 1593 01:08:34,500 --> 01:08:37,020 And I think it's multiple reasons why. 1594 01:08:39,340 --> 01:08:43,899 And going back to Dave's original point, I'm 1595 01:08:43,899 --> 01:08:46,979 using Bitcoin more and more as currency. 1596 01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:51,899 And there's so many different ways to use 1597 01:08:51,899 --> 01:08:52,779 it as currency. 1598 01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,500 And there's so many people who are, particularly 1599 01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:58,580 Chris at This Week in Bitcoin is continuously 1600 01:08:58,580 --> 01:09:00,899 coming up, you know, showing us new ways 1601 01:09:00,899 --> 01:09:03,540 of how without selling your Bitcoin, you can 1602 01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:06,560 transfer it to different places and you can 1603 01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:07,979 use fiat against it. 1604 01:09:08,260 --> 01:09:10,319 This is just the pioneering world that we 1605 01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:11,260 have to go through. 1606 01:09:12,100 --> 01:09:14,439 And we may wind up as, you know, 1607 01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,020 we come out of the apocalypse and everything 1608 01:09:17,020 --> 01:09:20,460 around us is in rubble and ash that 1609 01:09:20,460 --> 01:09:23,020 we may still be alive, you know, and 1610 01:09:23,020 --> 01:09:24,460 we'll be using this. 1611 01:09:24,540 --> 01:09:25,300 I don't know. 1612 01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,380 Sounds to me like 10 years is kind 1613 01:09:27,380 --> 01:09:29,600 of the timeframe when something has to blow 1614 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:30,380 up with the dollar. 1615 01:09:30,740 --> 01:09:32,160 I don't think we have much more than 1616 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:32,380 that. 1617 01:09:32,460 --> 01:09:35,120 Maybe that's why that 10 year AI thing 1618 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:36,100 has been put in place. 1619 01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:39,660 No laws against AI, state laws. 1620 01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:43,200 So, you know, it's like, yeah, it's a 1621 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,500 step back, but I'm sorry, it's not the 1622 01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:46,260 end of the world. 1623 01:09:46,340 --> 01:09:47,100 It's just not. 1624 01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:50,779 We're not gonna not... 1625 01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:57,220 To me, the metadata thing is very solvable. 1626 01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,420 But it's been two things that have been 1627 01:09:59,420 --> 01:10:00,180 holding us back. 1628 01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,520 One, a core group of very hardcore people 1629 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,300 saying, if it's not sovereign, it's no good. 1630 01:10:06,740 --> 01:10:10,260 And that has driven away tons of musicians, 1631 01:10:10,660 --> 01:10:12,340 all kinds of people who just threw their 1632 01:10:12,340 --> 01:10:13,440 hands up in the air and went, I 1633 01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:14,620 can't do an Albi hub. 1634 01:10:15,020 --> 01:10:16,520 I don't feel like doing it. 1635 01:10:16,540 --> 01:10:17,360 It's too much work. 1636 01:10:17,620 --> 01:10:18,560 And they went away. 1637 01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:22,100 I think that ship has now sailed. 1638 01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,900 I think we're past that, particularly with the 1639 01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:27,780 strike just being so incredibly easy to convert 1640 01:10:27,780 --> 01:10:29,120 your Bitcoin back and forth. 1641 01:10:29,340 --> 01:10:31,160 And now we're at the metadata stage. 1642 01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:32,660 And I think we just have to do 1643 01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:33,320 the same thing. 1644 01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:34,260 We just gotta go. 1645 01:10:34,340 --> 01:10:35,200 We gotta move forward. 1646 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,560 Well, yeah, Eric P.P. said metadata is 1647 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:40,440 solvable in multiple ways. 1648 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,960 Yeah, I think the metadata seems very solvable 1649 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:44,460 to me. 1650 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,720 But you have to figure out order of 1651 01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,580 operations when you have multiple things. 1652 01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,460 You have a switch from key send to 1653 01:10:53,460 --> 01:10:55,780 LN address, and then you have the fact 1654 01:10:55,780 --> 01:10:58,140 that LN address does not handle metadata very 1655 01:10:58,140 --> 01:10:58,480 well. 1656 01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:00,480 Here's a way to do it. 1657 01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:01,680 Solve one, then the other. 1658 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,400 Here's a possible interim step that may help 1659 01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:05,780 people. 1660 01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,260 Because it's mainly people who are doing live 1661 01:11:09,260 --> 01:11:13,760 shows who will really miss the Boostergram aspect. 1662 01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:15,400 And I completely get it. 1663 01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,780 I think, and by the way, 90% 1664 01:11:18,780 --> 01:11:21,760 of those people use noagenda stream and the 1665 01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,840 void zero node.net IRC channels. 1666 01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:27,200 I'm convinced of it. 1667 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:29,280 Those are the loudest people. 1668 01:11:30,620 --> 01:11:33,480 We can easily create a bot. 1669 01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:36,120 I'm looking at you, Cotton Gin, that will 1670 01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,860 take 1% split of an LN address 1671 01:11:40,860 --> 01:11:45,900 Boostergram and somehow convert that into an onscreen 1672 01:11:45,900 --> 01:11:47,960 message as an interim step. 1673 01:11:48,060 --> 01:11:49,900 So at least we have metadata coming through 1674 01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:50,880 for the live shows. 1675 01:11:51,180 --> 01:11:53,560 I think that's the main thing that people 1676 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:54,060 want. 1677 01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:59,400 Yeah, well, a few of the NA-related 1678 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,940 shows, I know bowl after bowl, Spencer has 1679 01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:05,660 a Boost bot right in the IRC that 1680 01:12:05,660 --> 01:12:07,360 some people use. 1681 01:12:08,220 --> 01:12:13,540 Yes, we need a dashboard, but we just 1682 01:12:13,540 --> 01:12:14,580 need to figure out where to pull that 1683 01:12:14,580 --> 01:12:14,840 from. 1684 01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,500 Well, this is what I'm saying. 1685 01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,180 If we create one bot, one IRC bot 1686 01:12:19,180 --> 01:12:22,620 that just does it, and you can put 1687 01:12:22,620 --> 01:12:25,200 that into your feed, even if you alone 1688 01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,980 are logged in and just looking at what 1689 01:12:28,980 --> 01:12:31,060 that Boost bot says, that's part of the 1690 01:12:31,060 --> 01:12:33,900 problem solved right there before we deploy a 1691 01:12:33,900 --> 01:12:36,100 new helipad or whatever else has to happen. 1692 01:12:36,260 --> 01:12:38,200 Just a bot, just a single bot. 1693 01:12:38,380 --> 01:12:42,980 I actually made something similar for Spencer since 1694 01:12:42,980 --> 01:12:46,180 his stuff posts to bowl after bowl. 1695 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,740 I actually read the IRC and send those 1696 01:12:48,740 --> 01:12:49,880 messages out to Noster. 1697 01:12:50,580 --> 01:12:53,520 So that's kind of the same idea, but 1698 01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:58,400 we need those payment flows to be able 1699 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,120 to tap into it, which I guess is 1700 01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,500 kind of my point and kind of what 1701 01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:04,680 Dave was saying about we need to... 1702 01:13:06,020 --> 01:13:09,920 There's so much to fix that we need 1703 01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,780 to kind of just pick something and just 1704 01:13:12,780 --> 01:13:14,680 start chipping away at it. 1705 01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,460 Right, so I think I'm with Dave. 1706 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,900 Let's just pick payments first and work on 1707 01:13:20,900 --> 01:13:23,120 that, and the Fountain guys will change the 1708 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,780 90% of wallet addresses in their feeds. 1709 01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:29,760 And we put out a list, like, hey, 1710 01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:30,840 you've got to switch. 1711 01:13:31,620 --> 01:13:33,080 I don't know any other way. 1712 01:13:33,860 --> 01:13:35,700 Yeah, let's fix the... 1713 01:13:35,700 --> 01:13:37,440 It's not like we're gonna lose millions of 1714 01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:38,480 dollars here, okay? 1715 01:13:38,740 --> 01:13:40,680 I mean, it's just not, it's just not. 1716 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,040 Yeah, let's fix the... 1717 01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,880 Franco says angry Boost about metadata wasn't for 1718 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:46,120 me. 1719 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:47,840 Okay, there you go, good. 1720 01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:48,760 I stand corrected. 1721 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:49,640 Sorry, Franco. 1722 01:13:50,430 --> 01:13:54,960 Let's fix the fact that a bunch of 1723 01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,340 wallets are not, a bunch of splits are 1724 01:13:57,340 --> 01:13:58,520 not working right now. 1725 01:13:58,620 --> 01:13:59,700 Let's fix that first. 1726 01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,820 So the money actually gets... 1727 01:14:02,820 --> 01:14:05,700 When somebody, there's nothing more disappointing, but now 1728 01:14:05,700 --> 01:14:09,880 on the podcaster side, for sure, it sucks 1729 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,420 not getting those payments, but also it sucks 1730 01:14:13,420 --> 01:14:16,420 for the people sending it. 1731 01:14:16,420 --> 01:14:19,880 Like, CSB gets very angry when his splits 1732 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:20,600 do not go through. 1733 01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:23,180 And I feel that, I feel that. 1734 01:14:23,340 --> 01:14:24,680 Like, I feel the... 1735 01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,640 If I try to send a payment to 1736 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,180 somebody and it doesn't work, it's annoying. 1737 01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:30,920 Tell me about it. 1738 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,220 I sent 100,000 sats this week in 1739 01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:37,960 Bitcoin from the CLI interface, because I know 1740 01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:39,400 that he's still doing keysend. 1741 01:14:39,900 --> 01:14:42,260 And no Boost was read, so I don't 1742 01:14:42,260 --> 01:14:43,040 think he got it. 1743 01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:44,440 But it left my wallet. 1744 01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:48,720 Although he does have two feeds in the 1745 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,020 index. 1746 01:14:50,220 --> 01:14:53,120 I'm wondering if it went somewhere else. 1747 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:54,900 But yeah, I felt very... 1748 01:14:54,900 --> 01:14:55,660 I was let down. 1749 01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:59,000 Yeah, you've already mentally decided, you've already mentally 1750 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,120 parted with that money. 1751 01:15:00,780 --> 01:15:02,600 And then when it comes back to you, 1752 01:15:02,740 --> 01:15:04,500 you're like, oh, wait, I didn't want that. 1753 01:15:04,500 --> 01:15:05,020 Yeah, yeah. 1754 01:15:05,620 --> 01:15:09,280 And like, we're just gonna have a lot 1755 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,580 more of that as we test stuff out, 1756 01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:12,660 honestly. 1757 01:15:12,660 --> 01:15:14,300 I mean, like a lot of us that 1758 01:15:14,300 --> 01:15:17,720 are kind of chipping away at stuff can... 1759 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,860 We like doing that, but I mean, it's 1760 01:15:21,860 --> 01:15:22,620 gonna... 1761 01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:25,420 Stuff's gonna fail, but it's either... 1762 01:15:25,420 --> 01:15:27,180 We either leave it like it is or 1763 01:15:27,180 --> 01:15:28,880 we fix something. 1764 01:15:29,060 --> 01:15:31,120 All right, Dave Jones, PodSage, what's the plan 1765 01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:31,820 of attack here? 1766 01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:32,960 What's the plan of attack? 1767 01:15:33,020 --> 01:15:33,740 What are we gonna do? 1768 01:15:34,660 --> 01:15:36,500 I'm gonna start by dumping out all those 1769 01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:41,340 feeds and getting us a list that tells 1770 01:15:41,340 --> 01:15:44,640 where, top to like most to least, who's 1771 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:45,920 hosting the most feeds. 1772 01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,900 And then we just kind of go through 1773 01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:54,240 and contact those people and get them, inform 1774 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,320 them that they, if they don't know already, 1775 01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:00,060 that they need to transition all those receiving 1776 01:16:00,060 --> 01:16:03,240 addresses over to LNURL. 1777 01:16:03,340 --> 01:16:03,780 Yeah. 1778 01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,520 Yeah, and if most people are using... 1779 01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,600 I'm just assuming most people are using Fountain 1780 01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,200 Wallets anyhow. 1781 01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,760 So like that should be an easy... 1782 01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,580 Like switching it from the Fountain keysend info 1783 01:16:16,580 --> 01:16:20,480 just to the someone at Fountain.fm should 1784 01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:22,960 be easy, at least in my mind. 1785 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:24,840 But... 1786 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,220 Sam is gonna be affected by this. 1787 01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:29,480 I don't do... 1788 01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:31,480 Is TrueFans hosting any wallets? 1789 01:16:32,260 --> 01:16:34,780 Like podcaster wallets or are they just listener 1790 01:16:34,780 --> 01:16:35,220 wallets? 1791 01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:36,500 This I don't know. 1792 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,740 I think they are, but not many probably. 1793 01:16:39,740 --> 01:16:40,340 I think they are too. 1794 01:16:40,340 --> 01:16:41,160 Not many probably. 1795 01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:41,480 Yeah, I believe so. 1796 01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:48,880 Yeah, if Sam's listening, just let me know 1797 01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,380 if y'all are hosting very many wallets. 1798 01:16:51,620 --> 01:16:53,540 And they may have already made this transition 1799 01:16:53,540 --> 01:16:57,560 because they're usually pretty quick to make changes 1800 01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:58,100 like this. 1801 01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,580 So I imagine that he's probably already moved 1802 01:17:00,580 --> 01:17:03,900 every anybody over to a LNURL wallet. 1803 01:17:04,740 --> 01:17:05,880 But I'll do that first. 1804 01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:07,720 I think that's just like... 1805 01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,420 I just can't think of 12 things at 1806 01:17:10,420 --> 01:17:11,160 the same time. 1807 01:17:11,380 --> 01:17:12,620 So I think that's just, we need to 1808 01:17:12,620 --> 01:17:13,380 start there. 1809 01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,840 And then once we get some sort of 1810 01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:22,820 traction on that and at least get acknowledgement 1811 01:17:22,820 --> 01:17:26,360 from everybody that they've got some awareness of 1812 01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,020 the issue and have something like a plan 1813 01:17:29,020 --> 01:17:32,840 to change it, at that point, then we 1814 01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,720 move on to like, okay, let's crack the 1815 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,460 metadata issue because I actually think that's the 1816 01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:39,600 easier problem to solve. 1817 01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:40,880 Yeah, I agree on that. 1818 01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:45,300 Yeah, and if people don't, I mean, people 1819 01:17:45,300 --> 01:17:47,500 don't wanna change their feeds, then that's up 1820 01:17:47,500 --> 01:17:47,740 to them. 1821 01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,900 We went through this when Albie changed. 1822 01:17:51,140 --> 01:17:52,260 Like a lot of us, some of us 1823 01:17:52,260 --> 01:17:55,100 were hosting music and feeds for people. 1824 01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:56,740 And we had to go through and change 1825 01:17:56,740 --> 01:17:59,640 all of the old, Albie hosted wallets over 1826 01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:00,060 to Fountain. 1827 01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:02,060 And some of those people said, I don't 1828 01:18:02,060 --> 01:18:03,760 care, just shut it down. 1829 01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,440 And you keep the sats or we never 1830 01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:07,100 heard from them. 1831 01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,800 So we've got like, when Albie switched over 1832 01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,400 a year ago, we've got feeds that still 1833 01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,980 have those in it. 1834 01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,220 So, but yeah, I like the idea of 1835 01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:22,400 just like, we just need to know like 1836 01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,040 what's in the index. 1837 01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:31,080 And like from someone who's kind of like 1838 01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:32,260 trying to build demo apps. 1839 01:18:32,260 --> 01:18:34,660 Like if I have a list of feeds 1840 01:18:34,660 --> 01:18:38,100 that I know, like don't have keysend that 1841 01:18:38,100 --> 01:18:41,480 I can add to apps, that helps a 1842 01:18:41,480 --> 01:18:41,640 lot. 1843 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,480 Okay, yeah, that should be a very quick 1844 01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:47,020 thing to do is export all that stuff 1845 01:18:47,020 --> 01:18:47,260 out. 1846 01:18:47,340 --> 01:18:48,840 And then we can, I'll just make it 1847 01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:49,160 available. 1848 01:18:49,260 --> 01:18:50,700 I mean, it's not, I mean, none of 1849 01:18:50,700 --> 01:18:51,080 it's private. 1850 01:18:51,180 --> 01:18:51,960 It's all in the feed anyway. 1851 01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:53,680 So I'll just publish it. 1852 01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:55,800 And then we can slice and dice it 1853 01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:56,660 and figure out what to do. 1854 01:18:56,700 --> 01:18:58,340 And there's gonna be some feeds that never 1855 01:18:58,340 --> 01:18:59,240 fix their stuff. 1856 01:18:59,980 --> 01:19:01,500 I mean, there's just gonna be, there's gonna 1857 01:19:01,500 --> 01:19:04,080 be stuff that's abandoned or people don't even 1858 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:05,700 know that they put a wallet in there. 1859 01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:07,880 They don't know what they're doing and they'll 1860 01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:09,760 never fix it. 1861 01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,700 Somebody on PowerPress that stuck an Albi address 1862 01:19:12,700 --> 01:19:13,840 in there 10 years ago. 1863 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:15,700 And then it's 20 years from now, it's 1864 01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:17,560 still gonna be have this weird address in 1865 01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:17,700 there. 1866 01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,260 Well, like we've seen that on the Albi 1867 01:19:20,260 --> 01:19:23,300 stuff because they've like, as they've switched off 1868 01:19:23,300 --> 01:19:27,020 stuff, people are like, hey, I had 100 1869 01:19:27,020 --> 01:19:29,160 ,000 sats in here that I forgot about 1870 01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:29,820 for a year. 1871 01:19:30,340 --> 01:19:33,060 And now they're gone, but that's just, I 1872 01:19:33,060 --> 01:19:37,240 mean, that's just part of running with scissors. 1873 01:19:38,100 --> 01:19:40,160 Hey, Chad, have you actually been able to 1874 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,860 send anything out of that Breeze Spark wallet 1875 01:19:42,860 --> 01:19:43,760 or only receive? 1876 01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,560 Oh yeah, I sent a bunch of test 1877 01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,660 ones to last week's episode. 1878 01:19:50,020 --> 01:19:51,820 No, cause I'm getting all kinds of errors 1879 01:19:51,820 --> 01:19:52,860 trying to get it out. 1880 01:19:53,580 --> 01:20:00,180 There was, I saw CSB post something earlier 1881 01:20:00,180 --> 01:20:03,800 that in fountain that episode, that year split 1882 01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:05,580 on that episode failed. 1883 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,100 Well, no, I'm trying to get it out. 1884 01:20:08,260 --> 01:20:09,800 I'm trying to get, yeah. 1885 01:20:09,940 --> 01:20:12,440 So there's like 26,000 sats in there 1886 01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:13,600 and I want to send it to the 1887 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,320 podcast index node and I keep getting the 1888 01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,560 payment failure, all kinds of crap. 1889 01:20:24,260 --> 01:20:28,120 I haven't really done much sending out, but 1890 01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,520 that doesn't, you're not doing a key send 1891 01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:32,120 payment, are you? 1892 01:20:32,260 --> 01:20:35,180 No, no, no, no, Ellen address. 1893 01:20:35,860 --> 01:20:38,140 Yeah, I don't, I've only been putting like 1894 01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:39,600 a thousand sats in at a time. 1895 01:20:40,620 --> 01:20:43,780 Yeah, I just let it sit and it's 1896 01:20:43,780 --> 01:20:46,880 not doing very well. 1897 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,220 I'm also on the listener side, so I'm 1898 01:20:51,220 --> 01:20:53,580 like pumping sats in and not really pulling 1899 01:20:53,580 --> 01:20:54,720 them out from places. 1900 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:55,160 Right. 1901 01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:59,580 So that's not really my area of expertise. 1902 01:20:59,820 --> 01:21:01,160 Well, so far failing. 1903 01:21:02,860 --> 01:21:06,000 But the sats are there and that's what's 1904 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,320 important. 1905 01:21:06,580 --> 01:21:07,100 Yeah. 1906 01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:10,360 Yeah, got to call Roy. 1907 01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:12,700 Hey Roy, give me my sats man. 1908 01:21:13,420 --> 01:21:15,080 They're there unless you try to send to 1909 01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,880 Jupiter, then they just go somewhere else. 1910 01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,700 In my demo app, I'll add this episode 1911 01:21:21,300 --> 01:21:24,940 and you can boost it and I'll tell 1912 01:21:24,940 --> 01:21:26,120 you if all the sats made it to 1913 01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:26,860 my wallet or not. 1914 01:21:27,220 --> 01:21:29,880 Yeah, well, I mean, again, the problem is 1915 01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,040 getting them out of the Spark wallet. 1916 01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:32,960 That's the problem. 1917 01:21:33,780 --> 01:21:36,580 Just boost something, but yeah, we'll see that. 1918 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,900 That's also a demo wallet. 1919 01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,760 So I don't know, but I mean, you've 1920 01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,340 got Roy's number, right? 1921 01:21:45,460 --> 01:21:46,020 Can't you just? 1922 01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:47,640 Yes, I do. 1923 01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:50,680 I don't want to bother him for 26 1924 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,040 ,000 sats, but yes. 1925 01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:57,280 There is a Telegram dev group for that 1926 01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:01,160 SDK that I've been in and he is 1927 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:01,860 active in. 1928 01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:04,840 So, I mean, I don't know if you 1929 01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,220 guys reach out to him and say, hey, 1930 01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:06,400 we. 1931 01:22:06,500 --> 01:22:07,900 I'll find him, don't worry about it. 1932 01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:09,640 I was just noticing it was a problem. 1933 01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:11,020 Well, I mean just. 1934 01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,860 Roy has Telegram embedded directly into his brain. 1935 01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:14,640 I mean, never leave. 1936 01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,400 I mean, just like, just maybe tell him, 1937 01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,640 hey, we're thinking about maybe adding this and 1938 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:21,340 see if he's. 1939 01:22:21,340 --> 01:22:23,200 I think he's checked out of the 2 1940 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,200 .0 stuff from what I've seen. 1941 01:22:25,300 --> 01:22:26,200 Oh yeah, no, he's gone. 1942 01:22:26,300 --> 01:22:29,000 But I mean, maybe we can bring him 1943 01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:29,400 back in. 1944 01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:29,840 I don't know. 1945 01:22:30,500 --> 01:22:30,960 I doubt it. 1946 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,600 I'm just a vibe coder, but so I 1947 01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:33,960 don't really. 1948 01:22:34,020 --> 01:22:34,760 I'm with you, brother. 1949 01:22:34,940 --> 01:22:35,980 I'm just a vibe coder. 1950 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:37,380 That's a t-shirt right there. 1951 01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:38,780 Just a vibe coder, man. 1952 01:22:38,940 --> 01:22:40,200 Don't ask me any questions. 1953 01:22:40,500 --> 01:22:42,120 That Telegram group's way over my head. 1954 01:22:43,940 --> 01:22:46,120 But Roy's got bigger fish to fry and 1955 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,040 I don't blame him. 1956 01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:48,920 Yeah, exactly. 1957 01:22:49,620 --> 01:22:54,040 Yeah, so yeah, I'll do that. 1958 01:22:54,380 --> 01:22:57,380 And then maybe Chris Fisher can tell us 1959 01:22:57,380 --> 01:22:58,340 why he has two feeds. 1960 01:22:59,700 --> 01:23:01,300 Yeah, let me see. 1961 01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:04,780 Cause I took the one that, let me 1962 01:23:04,780 --> 01:23:05,120 see. 1963 01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:07,180 Did he have, yeah, I think he does 1964 01:23:07,180 --> 01:23:07,560 have two. 1965 01:23:07,660 --> 01:23:07,980 I think I remember. 1966 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,900 Yeah, he's got a fountain feed and a 1967 01:23:10,900 --> 01:23:11,580 Jupiter feed. 1968 01:23:12,260 --> 01:23:12,780 Unacceptable. 1969 01:23:13,300 --> 01:23:13,560 Yeah. 1970 01:23:14,020 --> 01:23:14,500 Unacceptable. 1971 01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,580 See, I don't remember which one I sent 1972 01:23:17,580 --> 01:23:18,320 it to. 1973 01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,580 I mean, see, that's his problem, having two 1974 01:23:20,580 --> 01:23:21,420 feeds in the index. 1975 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:22,260 Yeah. 1976 01:23:22,860 --> 01:23:23,860 I mean, if you search it. 1977 01:23:24,300 --> 01:23:26,640 Maybe if they have the same value splits, 1978 01:23:26,780 --> 01:23:27,380 then they should. 1979 01:23:27,460 --> 01:23:27,960 Yeah, they do. 1980 01:23:28,180 --> 01:23:30,520 They have the exact same value split, which 1981 01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:32,100 is what's odd. 1982 01:23:32,100 --> 01:23:33,420 I mean, if you search a show and 1983 01:23:33,420 --> 01:23:35,880 you accidentally boost the wrong one, I mean, 1984 01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:38,340 that's not, I don't know. 1985 01:23:38,540 --> 01:23:41,320 That's his problem, but I don't know. 1986 01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,740 We just, I'm just trying to rally some 1987 01:23:43,740 --> 01:23:44,060 people. 1988 01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:45,580 I'm excited. 1989 01:23:45,580 --> 01:23:48,200 I'm excited I see options, but I'm also 1990 01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:49,700 stuck in the way we do things now 1991 01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:51,080 because it works for me. 1992 01:23:51,900 --> 01:23:52,980 But I'm willing to. 1993 01:23:53,060 --> 01:23:53,960 That's how you decay. 1994 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:57,760 Yep, that's how things eventually fall off a 1995 01:23:57,760 --> 01:23:58,000 cliff. 1996 01:23:58,340 --> 01:24:01,300 Yeah, well, I'm taking my Node and Albi 1997 01:24:01,300 --> 01:24:04,760 Hub to the grave with me, but I'm 1998 01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:07,120 willing to fix this along the way. 1999 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,700 But I mean, the Node with Albi Hub, 2000 01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:13,260 it's just so solid. 2001 01:24:13,260 --> 01:24:17,700 Yeah, so it's so solid, but it requires 2002 01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:20,420 extra steps, and I understand that, but yeah. 2003 01:24:21,260 --> 01:24:22,020 It's okay. 2004 01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:25,300 No, but I mean, again, to this day, 2005 01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,020 Bitcoin, it's the only thing that's in the 2006 01:24:29,020 --> 01:24:29,560 value block. 2007 01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,860 Nobody else has anything in it. 2008 01:24:31,940 --> 01:24:34,100 So Dave, is this also your way of 2009 01:24:34,100 --> 01:24:36,700 saying we should stack SATs to save our 2010 01:24:36,700 --> 01:24:37,100 skin? 2011 01:24:38,460 --> 01:24:39,020 SSSS? 2012 01:24:40,260 --> 01:24:40,740 SSSS? 2013 01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:43,440 I wouldn't, that's not a thing I would 2014 01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,860 say, but yeah, I don't disagree with the 2015 01:24:46,860 --> 01:24:47,140 sentiment. 2016 01:24:47,540 --> 01:24:50,560 Yeah, well, Tina and I have definitely been 2017 01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:50,980 doing it. 2018 01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:52,240 We're all in. 2019 01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:54,980 We're all in, like, yeah, this feels good. 2020 01:24:55,100 --> 01:24:55,600 It's good. 2021 01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:56,960 Yeah. 2022 01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:00,880 And again, we use it, if we go 2023 01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:05,980 out for dinner with friends, we'll settle the 2024 01:25:05,980 --> 01:25:08,800 bill in SATs just for fun, but it's 2025 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:09,960 still, he's doing it. 2026 01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:13,400 Now, and then I'll say- I've got 2027 01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:17,280 a buddy that does, he does all of 2028 01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:20,680 the new, like, fancy Bitcoin stuff. 2029 01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:22,660 Like, he's got a fold card. 2030 01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:23,640 He does- Yeah. 2031 01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,660 He does, like, Bitcoin-backed collateral loans. 2032 01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:29,300 Yeah. 2033 01:25:29,580 --> 01:25:32,080 Like, he's doing all of that stuff, and 2034 01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:37,060 like, you know, I don't really, I don't 2035 01:25:37,060 --> 01:25:37,460 know. 2036 01:25:37,460 --> 01:25:38,520 I don't go that far. 2037 01:25:38,620 --> 01:25:39,820 I don't get into it, but it all 2038 01:25:39,820 --> 01:25:40,220 works. 2039 01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:41,660 I mean, like, he's doing it all the 2040 01:25:41,660 --> 01:25:42,080 time. 2041 01:25:42,220 --> 01:25:42,860 Yeah, it does. 2042 01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:48,680 You know, and like, once you have a 2043 01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:53,780 significant, not significant, but like, once you have 2044 01:25:53,780 --> 01:25:57,840 some holdings, you can, the way things are 2045 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,400 evolving now, you can really leverage that stuff 2046 01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:02,820 to do some crazy things. 2047 01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:03,220 Yeah. 2048 01:26:04,140 --> 01:26:07,720 And, you know, he's into all that kind 2049 01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,540 of stuff, and it's pretty impressive, honestly, because 2050 01:26:10,540 --> 01:26:14,760 you have a, what you have is a 2051 01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:17,740 thing that the dollars just are hard to 2052 01:26:17,740 --> 01:26:18,020 rep. 2053 01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:20,360 It's hard to mimic with dollars. 2054 01:26:20,860 --> 01:26:25,260 You have like a, you have an appreciating 2055 01:26:25,260 --> 01:26:28,380 asset, which the dollar is just not. 2056 01:26:29,140 --> 01:26:30,880 And so you can, like, if you take 2057 01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:32,940 out, like, a Bitcoin loan or something like, 2058 01:26:32,940 --> 01:26:37,920 Bitcoin-backed loan, you get, you have a 2059 01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:42,180 built, you're appreciating in value most of the 2060 01:26:42,180 --> 01:26:44,820 time against the loan. 2061 01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:46,580 And so when you get to like a 2062 01:26:46,580 --> 01:26:49,660 certain level where it's like the value of 2063 01:26:49,660 --> 01:26:54,620 your Bitcoin that you've put down as collateral, 2064 01:26:55,060 --> 01:26:57,760 the value of that number of sats to 2065 01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,380 the value of the loan principle, it'll just 2066 01:27:00,380 --> 01:27:03,900 sort of like reallocate itself and, you know, 2067 01:27:04,460 --> 01:27:09,160 it's because you're actually gaining against your loan 2068 01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:09,740 in dollars. 2069 01:27:09,980 --> 01:27:10,100 Yeah. 2070 01:27:11,060 --> 01:27:12,860 Which is, we're just not, it's kind of 2071 01:27:12,860 --> 01:27:14,840 like a brain- Twister, yeah. 2072 01:27:15,020 --> 01:27:15,740 Scramble, yeah. 2073 01:27:15,980 --> 01:27:17,720 That is not what we're used to. 2074 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:21,500 We're used to a constantly depreciating currency, and 2075 01:27:21,500 --> 01:27:23,540 it's so hard to get your, so sort 2076 01:27:23,540 --> 01:27:24,920 of like readjust to this thing. 2077 01:27:25,020 --> 01:27:26,540 You're like, oh, you're saying I could take 2078 01:27:26,540 --> 01:27:28,740 out a loan in a certain amount of 2079 01:27:28,740 --> 01:27:28,960 months? 2080 01:27:29,020 --> 01:27:30,600 It may just pay itself off? 2081 01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:33,720 Like, I don't, that doesn't compute. 2082 01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:34,140 Yeah. 2083 01:27:34,220 --> 01:27:36,100 And so, but once you kind of like 2084 01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:40,680 learn how to use that whole strategy, like 2085 01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:42,340 you can do some pretty wild stuff. 2086 01:27:42,440 --> 01:27:43,780 And so I don't know, I just think 2087 01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:50,460 we're, I'm not afraid to just say, well, 2088 01:27:50,580 --> 01:27:52,500 you know, these are the people that are 2089 01:27:52,500 --> 01:27:53,020 using it. 2090 01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:57,080 This is the thing that seems to be, 2091 01:27:58,660 --> 01:28:03,840 have emerged as a real asset that we 2092 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,880 can do things with. 2093 01:28:06,540 --> 01:28:08,320 And that's enough for me. 2094 01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:09,420 I mean, I'm not, I'm just- We 2095 01:28:09,420 --> 01:28:11,440 still buy our beef in Bitcoin. 2096 01:28:12,380 --> 01:28:13,580 Yeah, yeah. 2097 01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,760 I mean, like- That's a basic necessity 2098 01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:16,440 right there. 2099 01:28:17,620 --> 01:28:17,900 Yeah. 2100 01:28:18,620 --> 01:28:23,420 And if I'm wrong, and it's all just 2101 01:28:23,420 --> 01:28:28,820 a huge global scam that, that the hood's 2102 01:28:28,820 --> 01:28:30,600 been pulled over my eyes, maybe, you know, 2103 01:28:30,660 --> 01:28:32,180 then it's just on me, I guess. 2104 01:28:32,460 --> 01:28:34,540 Well, let's thank some people for joining in 2105 01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:36,640 on the scam with some Boostergrams. 2106 01:28:36,660 --> 01:28:37,440 We appreciate it. 2107 01:28:39,860 --> 01:28:42,340 Bullysteed, one, two, three, four sats. 2108 01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:44,460 Chad F, CEO of the free and open 2109 01:28:44,460 --> 01:28:46,580 internet, AKA VibeCoder. 2110 01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:47,820 Yes. 2111 01:28:49,340 --> 01:28:52,700 There's Franco with his Angry Boost metadata. 2112 01:28:52,940 --> 01:28:53,640 It wasn't about me. 2113 01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:56,900 I read the 10,000 sats, Angry Boost. 2114 01:28:57,700 --> 01:29:00,680 Salty Cray on Howdy Boardroom, 4577. 2115 01:29:01,020 --> 01:29:02,040 Happy White Paper Day. 2116 01:29:02,140 --> 01:29:02,600 Ah, yes. 2117 01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,100 Here's my end of month dono in sats 2118 01:29:05,100 --> 01:29:05,580 conversion. 2119 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,580 Five, $5 to five. 2120 01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:08,660 Go podcasting. 2121 01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:09,240 Thank you, brother. 2122 01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:12,840 7777 from Mike Newman. 2123 01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:15,140 I love it when the pod stage goes 2124 01:29:15,140 --> 01:29:17,080 meta with a report from Reelville. 2125 01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,400 Hearing similar on This Week in Bitcoin and 2126 01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:22,360 read it years ago on the Thank God 2127 01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:23,120 for Bitcoin book. 2128 01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:26,140 Don't reject BTC, but add others and relook 2129 01:29:26,140 --> 01:29:29,500 at a Gates proposal from a few years 2130 01:29:29,500 --> 01:29:29,720 ago. 2131 01:29:29,860 --> 01:29:30,340 Steady on. 2132 01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:31,720 Yes, absolutely. 2133 01:29:32,500 --> 01:29:32,680 Yep. 2134 01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:34,520 6900 from Franco. 2135 01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:36,060 Life boost is love boost. 2136 01:29:36,500 --> 01:29:37,140 Yeah, I agree. 2137 01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,320 And with that, I hit the delimiter. 2138 01:29:41,660 --> 01:29:43,760 Guess, let's see what we got. 2139 01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:48,040 We got some one-offs here, which is 2140 01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:48,600 nice to see. 2141 01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:50,600 We got, these are PayPal's. 2142 01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,900 We got $10 from Jeffrey Hallam. 2143 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:54,660 Thank you, Jeffrey. 2144 01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:55,180 Jeffrey Hallam. 2145 01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:55,720 Thank you, Jeffrey. 2146 01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:02,040 We got, who's this? 2147 01:30:02,220 --> 01:30:05,420 Oh, this is Bronze Oxen Films, LLC. 2148 01:30:05,780 --> 01:30:06,500 Sent us $25. 2149 01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:07,660 Well, thank you. 2150 01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:09,260 Do you know Bronze Oxen Films? 2151 01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:09,940 I have never. 2152 01:30:10,100 --> 01:30:12,440 In fact, I think we need a defragmenting. 2153 01:30:13,140 --> 01:30:14,620 You've been defragmented. 2154 01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:16,760 Thank you for participating. 2155 01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,120 Oh, Adam and Dave. 2156 01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:21,980 Thank you for all your work to keep 2157 01:30:21,980 --> 01:30:23,120 speech free and open. 2158 01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:25,280 Your efforts have enabled many years of fruitful 2159 01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:29,060 ministry at the Schoolhouse Rocked podcast and the 2160 01:30:29,060 --> 01:30:30,540 Biblical Family Network. 2161 01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,300 Go podcasting, Sir Thinking Dad, guardian of the 2162 01:30:34,300 --> 01:30:35,360 home educators. 2163 01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:36,700 Yes, very nice. 2164 01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:38,680 Homeschoolers unite. 2165 01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:41,600 Yep, we homeschooled our oldest too. 2166 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:44,960 And she's no longer on drugs. 2167 01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:45,440 It's great. 2168 01:30:48,020 --> 01:30:50,640 Let's see, three, oh, this is a big 2169 01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:50,740 one. 2170 01:30:51,700 --> 01:30:52,100 $330. 2171 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:53,280 Whoa. 2172 01:30:54,060 --> 01:30:57,440 Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades on the 2173 01:30:57,440 --> 01:30:58,100 Impala. 2174 01:30:59,340 --> 01:31:02,300 That's from David McAnally and the message just 2175 01:31:02,300 --> 01:31:03,100 says V for V. 2176 01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:04,760 Oh, V for V back at you, brother. 2177 01:31:04,860 --> 01:31:05,220 Thank you. 2178 01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:06,200 V for V. 2179 01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:07,560 V for V, love it. 2180 01:31:07,700 --> 01:31:09,320 Thank you, that really makes a difference. 2181 01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:11,120 Everything makes a difference, to be honest. 2182 01:31:11,740 --> 01:31:12,840 Man, that's, I don't know. 2183 01:31:13,060 --> 01:31:14,900 I don't think David McAnally's ever said anything. 2184 01:31:14,900 --> 01:31:16,160 He may want to defragment me too. 2185 01:31:16,180 --> 01:31:17,660 You've been defragmented. 2186 01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:20,000 Thank you, David. 2187 01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:21,020 Really appreciate that. 2188 01:31:21,140 --> 01:31:23,360 I hope, I'd love to know what you're 2189 01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,380 doing with it, with the index. 2190 01:31:27,660 --> 01:31:30,440 Oh, $777 from the boys at rss.com. 2191 01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:30,820 Bang. 2192 01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,680 Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades on the 2193 01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:35,340 Impala. 2194 01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:36,400 Thank you, boys. 2195 01:31:36,620 --> 01:31:38,660 That is, and girls, that is very much 2196 01:31:38,660 --> 01:31:39,220 appreciated. 2197 01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:41,860 Wow, keeping us going yet another month. 2198 01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:42,400 Love it. 2199 01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:45,320 Yeah, Ben says, to the best open source 2200 01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:45,740 project. 2201 01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:49,800 Thanks, Dave and Adam, for keeping podcasting, for 2202 01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,340 keeping podcasting human, creative, and independent. 2203 01:31:52,500 --> 01:31:54,160 To the team at rss.com. 2204 01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:54,640 Thank you, team. 2205 01:31:54,740 --> 01:31:55,620 Thank you very much. 2206 01:31:55,940 --> 01:31:56,580 Yeah, team. 2207 01:31:56,860 --> 01:31:57,540 Thanks, team. 2208 01:31:58,200 --> 01:31:59,040 Go team. 2209 01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:01,820 Let's see, what else we got? 2210 01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:03,400 We got some booster grams. 2211 01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:06,580 Let's see, ugly quacking duck. 2212 01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,040 That's Bruce, 2222 through podcast guru. 2213 01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:11,260 He says, keep going, Adam and Dave. 2214 01:32:11,260 --> 01:32:12,180 We appreciate what you do. 2215 01:32:12,180 --> 01:32:15,160 73s from Southern Illinois, wet and cooler here. 2216 01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,240 Yo, 73s, kilo five, alpha, Charlie, Charlie. 2217 01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,300 Let's see, oh, Franco, speak of the devil. 2218 01:32:22,460 --> 01:32:24,480 Franco, 10,000 sats through Castamatic. 2219 01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:26,420 He says, I'd love to hear your thoughts 2220 01:32:26,420 --> 01:32:28,440 on streaming sats versus boosts. 2221 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,540 Doesn't thinking boosters by name on the show 2222 01:32:31,940 --> 01:32:35,160 while not mentioning streamers risk discouraging listeners from 2223 01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:35,580 streaming? 2224 01:32:36,060 --> 01:32:38,020 In my show, I think both, and I'm 2225 01:32:38,020 --> 01:32:40,440 seeing roughly 80% of sats coming from 2226 01:32:40,440 --> 01:32:43,880 streaming and about 20% from boosts. 2227 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:45,480 What's your experience and take on this? 2228 01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,420 Well, that's a good question. 2229 01:32:55,460 --> 01:32:57,180 I don't have an answer. 2230 01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,380 I don't think we've ever thanked streamers separately. 2231 01:33:00,580 --> 01:33:03,820 I know Chris does, which I always appreciate. 2232 01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,320 And he does get a good amount from 2233 01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:08,840 streaming. 2234 01:33:09,900 --> 01:33:10,560 Obviously- He thinks of them as a 2235 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:11,380 group though, right? 2236 01:33:11,380 --> 01:33:14,000 Doesn't he say thank you for all the 2237 01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:14,960 streamers and give a total? 2238 01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:17,280 Yeah, he does, you're right, you're right. 2239 01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:20,200 Yeah, I think Chris just adds all of 2240 01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,540 yours together because I've sent a couple of 2241 01:33:22,540 --> 01:33:25,120 small boosts and it's just like, he'll just 2242 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:30,040 add 10 boosts together in the streams, which 2243 01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:30,940 is one way of doing it. 2244 01:33:30,980 --> 01:33:33,400 So the answer is, yes, of course we 2245 01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:33,980 want names. 2246 01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:35,100 Of course we want metadata. 2247 01:33:35,620 --> 01:33:36,900 We have to go through, we got to 2248 01:33:36,900 --> 01:33:38,060 go through the wall of pain. 2249 01:33:39,260 --> 01:33:40,360 I don't think it'll take too long. 2250 01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:40,700 Wall of pain. 2251 01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:42,860 No metadata for a bit. 2252 01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:43,500 Wall of pain. 2253 01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:44,520 Yeah, the wall of pain. 2254 01:33:44,540 --> 01:33:46,660 But you could do, you could accumulate, you 2255 01:33:46,660 --> 01:33:49,000 could like, you could get those numbers from 2256 01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:49,720 Helipad, right? 2257 01:33:50,420 --> 01:33:50,740 Yes. 2258 01:33:50,740 --> 01:33:51,720 You could dump all that out. 2259 01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,300 Yeah, yeah, you could dump it out, yeah. 2260 01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,640 Yeah, but Helipad requires running a node. 2261 01:33:57,980 --> 01:33:58,380 Yep. 2262 01:33:59,540 --> 01:34:01,640 Which is kind of what we're trying to 2263 01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:02,180 get away from. 2264 01:34:02,780 --> 01:34:05,380 I guess, I guess Franco's running a node. 2265 01:34:05,700 --> 01:34:07,500 Just saying, I think he has AlbiHub in 2266 01:34:07,500 --> 01:34:07,900 the cloud. 2267 01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:09,200 He has. 2268 01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:12,880 He mentioned he has some kind of, something 2269 01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:13,660 with the API. 2270 01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:14,820 He's pulling it out. 2271 01:34:15,580 --> 01:34:18,000 Oh, he's doing a, he's doing a custom 2272 01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:18,440 job. 2273 01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:19,140 I got you. 2274 01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,260 Yeah, he's, you know, he's a doctor. 2275 01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:23,320 He's in there fixing it. 2276 01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,580 He's got his scalpel, his tweezers, gauze. 2277 01:34:26,580 --> 01:34:28,480 Yeah, he's just, he has a little mirror 2278 01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:28,600 on his head. 2279 01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:30,800 Of all people to be afraid of a 2280 01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:32,680 little blood in the water, come on, Franco, 2281 01:34:32,820 --> 01:34:33,600 we're going to be okay. 2282 01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:35,080 We're going to be okay, brother. 2283 01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:35,940 We're going to be okay. 2284 01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:37,880 Let's see. 2285 01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:39,000 Oh, CometStreetBlogger. 2286 01:34:39,660 --> 01:34:40,060 Did a limiter. 2287 01:34:40,380 --> 01:34:43,340 14.015 sats through fountain. 2288 01:34:43,940 --> 01:34:46,360 And CSB says, howdy, Dave and Adam. 2289 01:34:46,940 --> 01:34:48,920 Today, I want to recommend a podcast called 2290 01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:52,940 Happy to Help from the link happytohelp.buzzsprout 2291 01:34:52,940 --> 01:34:53,620 .com. 2292 01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:57,100 Quote, Happy to Help is a podcast about 2293 01:34:57,100 --> 01:34:59,960 all things customer support, brought to you by 2294 01:34:59,960 --> 01:35:01,040 the people at Buzzsprout. 2295 01:35:01,540 --> 01:35:03,660 Join us on the second Tuesday of every 2296 01:35:03,660 --> 01:35:06,800 month as Buzzsprout's head of podcaster success, Priscilla 2297 01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,620 Brooke, dives into the world of customer support 2298 01:35:09,620 --> 01:35:12,400 to make remarkable support the standard, not the 2299 01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:12,820 exception. 2300 01:35:13,420 --> 01:35:13,940 End quote. 2301 01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:16,920 Yo, CSB, the AI arch wizard. 2302 01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,020 Thank you, thank you, CSB. 2303 01:35:22,140 --> 01:35:22,720 That's beautiful. 2304 01:35:23,580 --> 01:35:27,980 We got Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Chris Bernardik, 2305 01:35:28,100 --> 01:35:28,460 $5. 2306 01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:29,340 Thank you, Chris. 2307 01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,220 And Dreb Scott, $15. 2308 01:35:32,480 --> 01:35:33,120 Wow. 2309 01:35:34,340 --> 01:35:36,600 Let me see, what is this picture that 2310 01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:37,480 was posted here? 2311 01:35:38,700 --> 01:35:39,180 Oh, Lord. 2312 01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:41,360 Lyceum. 2313 01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:42,260 I don't know, Lyceum. 2314 01:35:42,300 --> 01:35:44,040 I'm not getting your boosts over here, man. 2315 01:35:47,140 --> 01:35:47,900 True fans. 2316 01:35:47,940 --> 01:35:51,500 That's so weird, because I'm getting even two 2317 01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:53,720 sat boosts from IPFS. 2318 01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:56,100 So I don't understand. 2319 01:35:59,700 --> 01:36:02,180 True fans stream from, hmm. 2320 01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:06,420 I don't know, I'm not seeing that here. 2321 01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:07,920 Let me see, let me look in streams 2322 01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:08,520 for a second. 2323 01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:10,700 Let me see if I'm seeing streams. 2324 01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:14,680 Yes, no, I'm seeing, oh, it actually says 2325 01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:17,400 true fans stream from podcasting 2.0 to 2326 01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,200 40 live October 31st, 2025. 2327 01:36:20,660 --> 01:36:22,020 Okay, so I do see them. 2328 01:36:22,100 --> 01:36:23,480 I see them in helipad, yes. 2329 01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:26,720 Oh, Sam just, like when I posted the 2330 01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,900 live thing on ActivityPub, he sort of reposted 2331 01:36:29,900 --> 01:36:31,380 with his own live link off true fans. 2332 01:36:31,460 --> 01:36:31,820 That's cool. 2333 01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:35,840 His own live, oh, so you can listen 2334 01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:36,800 live on true fans. 2335 01:36:37,100 --> 01:36:38,420 Yeah, yeah, I kind of like that. 2336 01:36:38,460 --> 01:36:39,980 It's almost like a link tree of all 2337 01:36:39,980 --> 01:36:40,720 the different places. 2338 01:36:41,180 --> 01:36:42,260 That's pretty cool. 2339 01:36:42,940 --> 01:36:44,740 Well, thank you all very much for the 2340 01:36:44,740 --> 01:36:46,580 value that you've sent, for the value that 2341 01:36:46,580 --> 01:36:48,780 we provide with podcastindex.org. 2342 01:36:48,900 --> 01:36:51,640 All of these funds go into the podcast 2343 01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:54,240 index to keep all the machines running, to 2344 01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:57,580 keep us safe and sound for at least 2345 01:36:57,580 --> 01:36:58,380 a couple of years. 2346 01:36:58,480 --> 01:36:59,500 So we appreciate that. 2347 01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:01,140 Don't let up, though. 2348 01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:02,820 Don't let up. 2349 01:37:02,820 --> 01:37:07,160 It's been kind of like evened out with 2350 01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:08,680 cost versus coming in. 2351 01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:11,160 So we want to continue this to keep 2352 01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:11,500 it going. 2353 01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:12,740 Really appreciate all that. 2354 01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:14,160 And Chad F, thank you so much, man, 2355 01:37:14,220 --> 01:37:15,240 for all that you've been doing. 2356 01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:17,760 I think everyone sees you. 2357 01:37:17,900 --> 01:37:20,900 We all see your tests and we all 2358 01:37:20,900 --> 01:37:24,040 have been watching with bated breath of what's 2359 01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:25,280 the next thing he's figured out. 2360 01:37:25,980 --> 01:37:29,500 And that effort is really appreciated. 2361 01:37:30,420 --> 01:37:30,820 Yeah, it is. 2362 01:37:30,940 --> 01:37:31,380 Thanks, Chad. 2363 01:37:31,380 --> 01:37:34,680 Open source is people and you- Open 2364 01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:35,580 source is people. 2365 01:37:35,860 --> 01:37:37,140 Now there's another t-shirt. 2366 01:37:37,460 --> 01:37:39,140 Open source is people. 2367 01:37:39,420 --> 01:37:40,520 Yes, exactly. 2368 01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:41,380 Exactly. 2369 01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:48,620 Yeah, well, I mean, honestly the Bitcoin stuff 2370 01:37:48,620 --> 01:37:52,380 is my favorite part of Podcasting 2.0 2371 01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:54,620 and I just kind of want to help 2372 01:37:54,620 --> 01:37:55,300 expand that. 2373 01:37:55,480 --> 01:37:59,900 So I'm here if anyone wants my opinion 2374 01:37:59,900 --> 01:38:05,240 on this stuff, it's- Yeah, I mean, 2375 01:38:05,300 --> 01:38:09,200 someone's got to, but I mean, I see 2376 01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:11,380 the problems and I do want to open 2377 01:38:11,380 --> 01:38:14,640 it up, but also kind of want, I 2378 01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,500 don't know, I don't want all this just 2379 01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:20,380 to turn into Spotify or Apple again. 2380 01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:26,000 So any kind of pushback or rudeness is 2381 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,420 - We understand. 2382 01:38:30,900 --> 01:38:31,540 I'm stubborn. 2383 01:38:31,540 --> 01:38:34,440 But I mean, this is like, I mean, 2384 01:38:34,460 --> 01:38:34,960 this is cool. 2385 01:38:35,100 --> 01:38:36,000 I mean, we just ran off a bunch 2386 01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:36,360 of boosts. 2387 01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:38,620 People grabbed their phone, you know, sending us 2388 01:38:38,620 --> 01:38:38,960 money. 2389 01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:41,200 That's, I just want more of that at 2390 01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:41,720 the end of the day. 2391 01:38:42,020 --> 01:38:42,480 I agree. 2392 01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:43,720 Thank you so much, brother. 2393 01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:44,980 Brother Dave, thank you. 2394 01:38:45,480 --> 01:38:45,840 Yep. 2395 01:38:46,100 --> 01:38:48,760 Hey, happy Halloween to everybody, if you celebrate 2396 01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:50,120 that, this pagan holiday. 2397 01:38:52,540 --> 01:38:54,200 And thank you very much, Boardroom. 2398 01:38:54,260 --> 01:38:55,220 Thank you for being there. 2399 01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,820 And we will return next week on Friday 2400 01:38:57,820 --> 01:39:01,400 for another board meeting right here on Podcasting 2401 01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:19,530 2.0. You 2402 01:39:19,530 --> 01:39:24,110 have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit 2403 01:39:24,110 --> 01:39:27,270 podcastindex.org for more information. 2404 01:39:27,710 --> 01:39:29,130 Go podcasting! 2405 01:39:29,810 --> 01:39:31,290 Well, but they can all get a sandwich 2406 01:39:31,290 --> 01:39:32,150 here at my house.