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podcasting 2.0 for February
12 2021, Episode 24 value

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economics. I hope I can figure
out what that means. And even

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though it's cold outside, it is
hot in the boardroom here for

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podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org
I'm Adam Curry in Austin, Texas.

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And in Alabama, the man who can
calculate 100% of the value

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split my friend on the other end
danger.

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Yeah, cold is right. It is cold
as a well diggers, but in

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Birmingham, Alabama,

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uh, well, diggers, but I like
it. I had not heard this. This

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is good. Is that what you get
when y'all say down there? Yes.

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What we're saying down here.
Over there.

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I mean, they're expecting seven
degrees in Austin. I think.

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Sunday.

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Did you say seven? Seven? That
ain't right. Yeah. That is not

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right. For this out. We are
supposed to be like 20 like 18

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or 20. On Sunday, it was
literally 70 degrees here two

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days ago.

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Oh, yeah. No, we had exactly the
same thing. It's it's bizarre

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kind of.

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Yeah. I don't know what the
polar vortex is or getting this

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out. I don't know what's funny.
Like, it's funny

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how we never heard about that as
kids this polar vortex business.

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You know, what we did hear about
was the hole in the ozone layer?

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Yes. Which, which just seems to
magically repaired itself.

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I got a lot of grief for that.
Because one of the there were

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two main sources of the
devastating hole in the ozone

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layer. One was air conditioning,
and the other was hairspray. And

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man in the 80s people were mad
at me.

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You were you were at least 40%
of the whole came directly from

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the New York around the MTV
studios.

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Oh, man. Yeah, exactly.

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You know, Valentine's day
Sunday? Yes. And I think we

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should need to start the show
off a little bit different.

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I love you. And I'm sorry. I was
right on cue, man.

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I love you. And I'm so glad
we're doing this together. I

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love you. And I'm so glad that
we're doing this together.

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Oh, Dave, I love you. And I'm so
glad we're doing this together.

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That's the way you start a
monitor. Hello? Hello. Yeah,

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that's

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nice. Don't don't don't leave me
hanging.

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Adam, I love you. And I'm so
glad we're doing this together.

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Thank you. Now the universe is
equal. Okay. Wow, man. How's it

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been? I think it's been I kind
of lost track of the week. I'm

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not even sure what happened
anymore. There was so much so

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much.

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That's a pretty good
description. Yeah, there's a lot

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It was. It was kind of a it was
kind of a weird week. It just

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kind of flew by and I don't
really know how to explain it.

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It was it was kind of busy at
work. And I was trying to keep

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up with with that and with
podcast stuff. I think there's

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one or two days where I was just
kind of, you know, missing an

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action but yeah, that's right.
Oh, yeah.

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I felt that

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Yeah, I was I was having trouble
with as I have some some

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trouble.

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Let me let me explain what that
means. I felt that Oh, yes. I

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love you. I'm so happy to be
doing a podcast. Now in general

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though, let me just say this
universally maybe more people

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have felt this. Besides that you
were out and I Dave's got

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something going on? He's clearly
he he's busy but he'll show up

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and yeah, and sure enough you
posted like near the end of the

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day or whatever is that and
that's how I know if people are

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alive his podcast index dot
social. But in general, it's

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basically the Apple Watch of his
The day after the Super Bowl

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Monday up into well, even today
still, my email has been low

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volume. I've seen low volume of
posts on Twitter. In fact, the

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only thing where there was any
real action was on on the index

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mastodon it was noticeable very
noticeable. I don't know what

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happens like we're also
Mercury's in retrograde or some

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of you know something like that.
Whoa, what's going on?

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Yeah, it's not good astrology.

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Yeah, that bad stuff happens. I
have a personal astrologer the

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penny she's the official no
agenda astrologer she sends me

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stuff all the time about my my
stars, my numbers and all of

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this lines up all of what's
happening with podcasting. 2.0

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is has been predicted in the
stars. There are no

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coincidences.

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The that's the Adam Curry is
right. motto.

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And there also are no secrets.
Only information you don't yet

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have. Yes, yes. And that's true.
That's the true motto. Yeah, so

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tell me what you were working
on. On the index and we can kind

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of pick it up from there. So we
can figure out what, what the

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update is because I have a lot
of value for value stuff. But

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you know, maybe do you have any
namespace talk? Because, um,

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I mean, not, not really, I think
we do need to talk. We, you

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know, we kind of finished up
and, you know, quote, unquote,

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shipped phase two, but I don't
wait, I've been trying to think

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of, sort of the next step. And
I've been contacting some people

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and posting on the namespace and
like, hey, what, you know, where

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do we want to go from here? I
mean, what do we want to do?

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Next? I thought, what a no. And
Tom and James a few other

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people, you know, gave
responses, but I'm not real sure

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what that means. May we do we, I
said, what I said, well, we'll

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just talk about it on the in the
board meeting and see what we

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want to do. Because I got some,
I got some ideas. And, you know,

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James mentioned tastes like,
hey, maybe maybe we need to kind

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of take take a breather from
Korea from building new things.

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And, like, make sure that we get
apps and hosts and stuff to kind

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of catch up

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now there. Now there's a there's
a point to that. And now I am

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recalling some of the things
that I saw over the past week.

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Beautiful was to see buzzsprout
popping up with, you know, with

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location tags, so content
content is being created,

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Cridland is doing it, everybody
is starting to create and take

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advantage of well, chapters is
another one. And I'm seeing

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people switching apps. I mean,
this is all just stuff I'm

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noticing on Twitter, because I
get tagged in it. So there is

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Yeah, I think it's almost time
to like pull back on the yoke a

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little bit, you know, because
things feel that lifting off,

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like the nose wheel is starting
to become a little light. And

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really, when you see the content
being created, specifically for

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these features, that's when you
know, now something is

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happening. And and we're seeing
who just added chapter images

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buzzsprout. So they just added
that, yes. So they added that to

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the their suite. And those guys
are just kicking ass. You got

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sir gene showing up? Who was
starting to understand some of

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the features, you know, he still
say, well, it doesn't work on

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overcast, you know, so, and he's
a smart guy. So it's like, a

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little bit of education there.
But there is something to be

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said for taking a breather, but
I'd hate to lose momentum. At

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least we need to plant a flag in
the future or maybe have a cut

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off or proposal. You know what I
mean?

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Yeah, I was thinking that same
thing, too. It's like there's

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this tension between between
move momentum and, and runaway

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runaway runaway train, like no,
yeah, yeah. And

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I don't want to do that, you
know, cuz, like we you actually

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do, there is some wisdom in in
kind of, Okay, let's, let's take

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a pause and take a breather and
say, Okay, let's give people and

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the reality is I haven't even
caught up yet. I mean, I don't

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even have a PR person and
location are not even in the

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index yet. No, no, often halfway
finished.

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Well, there's your answer. Yes,
here's your answer.

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But I do think we need a time
limit there. So like, let's just

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say, Well, okay, let's, let's
pause. Let's have a seven,

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seven. intermission intermission
between now and let's say we

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pick up phase three, and, you
know, 30 days from now or

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whatever. And start didn't begin
to take submissions for that and

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begin to discuss it. Let's pause
for a month but have an actual

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date in mind where we don't say,
hey, let's just let's chill out

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for a while. Because I don't
like that either.

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Yeah, no, agreed. And here's
what I'm feeling because I tried

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to use all the apps that
everyone's working on, try out

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the new features, promote them,
obviously, you got to post them

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No, no, no agenda, no agenda,
podcasts index dot social, so I

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can see it to get some, I still
have, like 57,000 Twitter

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followers as their real to use
that post purge, this post

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purge. So useful wagon useful
wagon. But I can see, right now

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a lot of people are excited
about lightning, and they're

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integrating that. And I know,
and maybe our guests later today

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will be able to tell us more.
But I know some people have put

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some things aside that they
wanted to fix and enhance do

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another version of to do this.
And I think for my money, we've

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pushed very hard and everyone's
pushed themselves very hard. And

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maybe we just, I mean, there's
integration between the things

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that we have created already
some of the newer tags and

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lightning I mean, there's stuff
to be done here. That and and

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and neither you or I are
qualified and we need to hear

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from the from the developers we
need to hear what what they want

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and or individually. I have a
feeling just just guessing that

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they'll probably like yeah, it'd
be okay to let's work on this

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right. Now and maybe we have
instead of a deadline of

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something that, you know, could
people have to do additional

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thinking we have a debt, a start
line. It's like on this date,

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we're gonna start.

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I like that. Yeah, I think
that's

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Yeah, I think it needs another
deadline for something. I don't

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know. I don't either. That's a
lot of stress.

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Yeah. And that's not why we did
this. We did not do this for any

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kind of stress or bullcrap, or
any of that. Also not for

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profit, which is kind of
interesting. Very funny.

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Well, I think you, I think, I
think we both are kind of

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similar. I mean, I know that you
and I both get excited about

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something. And we just, it's
like, it just has to burn itself

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out of our brain. I mean, like,
it just has got to make it

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happen. That's

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the source of my sleepless
nights sometimes.

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Yeah, yes. I

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just got to try this. One more
thing.

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Yeah. And so I think we've sort
of come to a net is like a

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natural kind of, that's that
that initial burnout has worked

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itself out. I've got it out of
my brain now. But now I really

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need to do a couple of things. I
mean, I got to finish person and

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location tag. Also. there's work
to be done on the value blog.

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There needs some tweaks there.

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Yeah. Cuz then that may start to
accelerate once people start to

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see it. I mean, I'm seeing
increases. Now. I'm an almost

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three bucks a day. On my
personal my personal stuff, and

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I don't know who's using it. But
the

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one that that is that the note
that like no agenda and podcasts

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and extra social, I mean, yeah,
like, Yes, yeah,

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no, yeah. That is across my
segment of this show. My split

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of no agenda and my split of mo
facts. I think this this show is

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the majority of it. And the
boost. I mean, the boost is

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where it's you know, boost is
where, where stuff comes from.

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But if you look at the, the,
just the number of transactions,

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which is what I posted on on the
mastodon the other day, yeah,

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like 10 K. Yeah, the index is
seen over 10,000 minutes. And so

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that's excluding the boosts.
Wow. So it's just, it's just the

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minutes that a minute payment
went out in a month, which is,

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it comes down to like, 700
hours, I

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think. Geez, laziness. Am I
saying? Literally at home? Yeah.

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Thanks. Am I saying

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that right?

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So it's like, I mean,
10,000 9000 would be

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10,006 10 123 divided by 69?
Yeah, it is. Now there wasn't

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that much. I knew it couldn't be
that much. 166. How can it be

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fun? What I do now? That's not
right. What the hell this is

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Microsoft calculator. That
doesn't tell you enough. It

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seems

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no, it seems. This is the part
of the show where we do

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a horrible No, it's 166 hours.
I'm telling you. That's what it

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is. Am I doing that? Right?

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It's 10,000 hours, right? No?
10,000 minutes. 10,000 minutes

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divided by 60 166 hours? Yeah.
Okay. That's not exactly not

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what I thought it was.

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No, that's much less than I
thought it was.

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But still 166 hours when you've
got 15 or make 15 podcasts?

218
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Oh, yeah. It's and who the hell
knows. I mean, that's pretty

219
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much Sphinx and, and pod
station. That's the only things

220
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that'll do it. So I'm amazed.
I'm amazed that Sphinx is

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demonstrates this. Man, those
guys, I appreciate them so much.

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They're redoing their whole back
end. Whatever happened when they

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when they brought us in? Like we
came in and we poop so hard that

224
00:13:48,059 --> 00:13:51,299
their plumbing, the plumbing is
just jacked. It's like you know

225
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that pull that sludge out? You
know, that you see on TV?

226
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Hey, don't be like Caddyshack.
It's like Snickers Snickers just

227
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floating in the pool. You know?

228
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people stop putting those
podcast wipes down the tube,

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you're clogging up the system.
It's turning into a rock

230
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formation. So yeah, and I feel
really bad. But on the other

231
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hand, I think we really did
everyone in service.

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I heard from and on the on the
Sphinx. podcasting two point

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eltra Yeah, no, I'm sorry, the
podcast lightning tribe that I

234
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,410
thought I thought he was dead. I
thought we lost it.

235
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Either either. They had
abandoned ship. And it was just

236
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like floating Deathstar or they
were floating, or they were or

237
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they were patching holes and I
think it was a lot of plugging.

238
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Yeah, and now like these guys
are gonna be heads down

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developing that's that's what's
going on here.

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They said they're working on
some stuff and we got it. We got

241
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some tweaks to make to the value
block for him. I

242
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got we got stuff to do.

243
00:14:52,409 --> 00:14:53,849
Ellen pay. Yeah, yeah.

244
00:14:55,169 --> 00:14:59,999
Good anyway, so that's probably
a good idea. You know, and we

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Have a we just have many other
things to, to to check off the

246
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list everybody does. Everybody
has a list of stuff. And no, I'm

247
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just sitting here waiting, like,
and also, I need to go out on

248
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the on the road again, the
virtual road. You know, I got a

249
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couple more podcasts, I got to
bring some more people in, we

250
00:15:18,539 --> 00:15:22,049
got to tell our story. Our story
is refined, it keeps getting

251
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better. The story is accentuated
the whole world is looking at

252
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alternatives to the platforms.
We're kind of in the sweet spot.

253
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Yeah, I think so. The time, the
timing of everything, of when

254
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this was going to be needed
exceeded, you know, like,

255
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exceeded my expectations. It was
like, Well, we've got these

256
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ideas about things that may
happen in the future. And then

257
00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:48,570
they happened like a month
later, you know?

258
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Well, here's, here's something I
feel is coming. Because right

259
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,240
now I've been through when
podcasting started and when I

260
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was foolish enough to think we
could do this and the

261
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traditional broadcast model
raised VC money went out to San

262
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Francisco. We were on a path and
podcasting was Yeah, was was was

263
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the hottest thing. It was the
darling and then all of a

264
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sudden, Twitter, Facebook,
YouTube, all of these community

265
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based thing social networks.
And, and I would say YouTube was

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was just enormous. I mean that
that made us change our business

267
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model. In hindsight, none of it
was good. So podcasting kind of

268
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got pushed down to the bottom,
and it grew very steadily until

269
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cereal came along a couple of
years back. And then from there,

270
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it just exploded. And also
because people were so sick and

271
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tired of what they were getting
with you they were missing

272
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something and that's something
is clearly solved by podcasting

273
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where you can do other
autonomous things while you're

274
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listening. It's much more
peaceful, restful than looking

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at a social network. It's just a
good experience and people like

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it. Now we have something that
is I think is going to push

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podcasting down in the in the
press for a little bit. And that

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is clubhouse.

279
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I'm glad you brought this up
because I want to talk about

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this.

281
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And I'll

282
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:22,140
give you my opinion, then we
need to bring in our guest

283
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because I think they I think
David has opinions on this. Oh,

284
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:28,409
man. You can don't don't no
spoilers on the guests, man.

285
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,410
I'm sorry. I mean, Ned, Jim.

286
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,460
Every everybody has said well
screw it. Let's bring him in.

287
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:42,000
And then I can prognosticate.
And then we can hear. We can

288
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,720
hear his opinion. Ladies and
gentlemen, podcasting. 2.0 was

289
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,590
very proud to welcome to the
boardroom, that genius behind in

290
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:54,450
app community chapters from
hyper catcher. David Norman.

291
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,030
Wow, I can't live up to that.

292
00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:00,449
You do my man, you do live up to
it.

293
00:18:00,810 --> 00:18:03,240
Super excited to be here. Thanks
a lot for having me.

294
00:18:03,330 --> 00:18:07,350
No, do we love having you here
you you've been along for quite

295
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:14,010
the ride. Gee, you know, we know
so little about you. Really? I

296
00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:17,730
guess. I'd love to know who is
David Norman. Besides the the

297
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,380
guy who does Piper catcher

298
00:18:19,410 --> 00:18:22,380
that's by design. He doesn't
want you to know that he lives

299
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in a cabin in Idaho.

300
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I do. I do live pretty deep in
the woods. So I'm, I'm pretty

301
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,340
excited that my internet is held
up for this long. So you are in

302
00:18:35,339 --> 00:18:36,479
Idaho? Is that where you are?

303
00:18:37,170 --> 00:18:39,990
No, I'm actually north of
Seattle about an hour north of

304
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:40,500
Seattle.

305
00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:41,100
Oh, wow.

306
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,330
Yeah. So I'm a San Francisco Bay
Area guy I grew up there. I

307
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moved out here to actually have
a chance at owning a home.

308
00:18:49,530 --> 00:18:56,940
Right? Yes. Good idea that that
is like, I think there's a lot

309
00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:00,360
from the last two or three
articles I've read. There's like

310
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,300
a mass exodus going on out of
San Francisco right now.

311
00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:06,240
Yeah, yeah. So I got I was a
little bit ahead of the curve. I

312
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,130
got out a couple years ago. But
I definitely kind of, I don't

313
00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:14,130
want to say I told you so. But I
get to the people who are still

314
00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:17,400
there. But you know, I worked in
San Francisco for a little

315
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,060
while. You know, taking the
train into the city, I still

316
00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:24,360
kind of lived outside of the
kind of there's no way I was

317
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:29,010
gonna afford something inside of
San Francisco. But just coming

318
00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:32,280
into the city every day and just
Seattle was actually a big

319
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,220
improvement to that. And a
couple of ways.

320
00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:40,440
Now, you've been in the tech
business. Yeah, for a while or

321
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,910
Yeah, so I've been a mobile
software engineer for about 10

322
00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:52,560
years now. See before that, kind
of get started. join the Navy

323
00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:57,450
out of high school. I was there
for five years. Oh, flying on.

324
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:04,650
air crew flying on PTC on Ryan's
respirator nice. So that's kind

325
00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:05,580
of my whole

326
00:20:05,609 --> 00:20:08,879
kind of real cold there. Yeah.

327
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,530
But that that's kind of where I
kind of see my intro, my intro

328
00:20:13,530 --> 00:20:15,720
to podcasting and how I got
involved. It's just we would be

329
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,840
on flights for hours at a time.
And I would kind of take radio

330
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,010
shows with me on my iPod. And I
think you had some tech back

331
00:20:23,010 --> 00:20:25,140
then that would have helped make
that better that I didn't know

332
00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:31,620
about it. So I would just
download a radio show on my iPod

333
00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:34,170
and, and just bring it with me
and just get as many as I

334
00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:38,670
possibly could, at the time. And
yeah, when I got out of the

335
00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:42,900
Navy, I went to college and the
Joe Rogan experience that kind

336
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:45,900
of started around that time. I
got my first iPhone. And I was

337
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,290
just been, like, just huge in
the podcasting since then. Nice

338
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:49,740
in that.

339
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,310
Yeah. And so did you just decide
at some point, you know, I could

340
00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:54,240
make this better?

341
00:20:55,410 --> 00:21:03,330
Yeah, yeah. So I was a overcast
user for a long time. And the

342
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,870
thing that actually sparked it
in my mind was secretary at a

343
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:11,700
podcast that came out. We have
been Thomson. Yep, exactly. And

344
00:21:12,210 --> 00:21:14,250
so I subscribed to that. And he
actually had this really cool

345
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:17,640
feature. I'd never seen it
before, which was an integration

346
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:23,940
with overcast that would change
the the album art based on the

347
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:24,600
chapters.

348
00:21:24,690 --> 00:21:27,270
Ah, that daddy three tag, right?

349
00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:31,290
Yep, yep, exactly. And he kind
of I think people have been

350
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:35,520
doing that. But he kind of
worked it into his to the actual

351
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,880
program. So he would actually
mention at certain points, you

352
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,070
know, if you have the overcast
app, at this point, you'll see

353
00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:44,250
this diagram that I put on the
screen, and you'll see that

354
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:47,130
you'll see it update. And I just
thought like, why isn't there an

355
00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:52,500
app kind of built with that
integrated? as kind of the, you

356
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,050
know, the function of the app?
Why does it have to be kind of

357
00:21:55,050 --> 00:21:59,820
hacked into album art? And
that's where I kind of came up

358
00:21:59,820 --> 00:22:02,370
with the idea of hyper capture,
and you know, bringing actual

359
00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:06,720
full, integrated web experiences
right into the right into the

360
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,410
podcast app.

361
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,270
Oh, that's interesting. So
you're already heading in that

362
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:13,800
direction mentally before before
the captors and all that and

363
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,660
transcripts and all that stuff
were even thought of?

364
00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:22,800
Yeah, I mean, a little bit.
Yeah, I hadn't? Yeah, I think it

365
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,220
was, that was a huge revolution,
when you kind of brought up the

366
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:31,710
idea of embedding it into the as
a as a JSON attachment to the

367
00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:34,320
RSS feed, because that enabled
so much stuff that I hadn't even

368
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,390
been thinking about yet. That
was huge. But yeah, I've been

369
00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:42,420
trying to find ways to get
people to use chapters more and

370
00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:45,510
for a while now, because I just
saw so much potential with them.

371
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,890
And there's just a kind of a big
hurdle to integrating them

372
00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:51,780
because he had to actually
integrate it directly into the

373
00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:52,710
mp3 file.

374
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,020
Yeah, I want to give you a an
official award for something you

375
00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:02,790
did. Yeah. And I picked this,
this thinking up from, from Dave

376
00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:08,280
Weiner, the idea that you are
authoring in the same

377
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:15,360
application you use to look at
the runtime. And the just the

378
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:20,130
whole concept of a podcast app,
this is the first interactive

379
00:23:20,130 --> 00:23:25,530
feature, I think ever that has
truly been deployed. And this is

380
00:23:25,530 --> 00:23:29,280
clearly an interactive feature.
Where you just listening to a

381
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,310
podcast, you can say, Oh, hold
on a sec, I want to suggest a

382
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:36,180
chapter here. And you hit it and
it goes off into the into the

383
00:23:36,180 --> 00:23:40,590
magic back end. And then the
Podcast Producer can approve

384
00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:45,570
those change those, you know,
adapt them, whatever that is.

385
00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:49,500
It's a groundbreaking idea. It's
google docs for chapters. You

386
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:52,860
know, it's it's really, really I
love it. It's so smart. And it's

387
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:56,580
given me this, this almost
insatiable desire to want to I

388
00:23:56,580 --> 00:23:59,850
want to produce the whole thing.
I want to be doing wiziwig

389
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,200
podcast publishing.

390
00:24:02,310 --> 00:24:03,960
Right. To some degree, it

391
00:24:03,959 --> 00:24:06,899
makes sense. Not entirely, but
you know, to some degree, it

392
00:24:06,899 --> 00:24:09,629
just makes sense. Right? Yeah. I

393
00:24:09,630 --> 00:24:12,870
appreciate you. That was
entirely your idea, I'd say and

394
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:17,250
actually adding the men or
adding podcast chapters from the

395
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:21,600
app. Community chapters, I
remember hearing you talk about

396
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,760
it on a podcasting 2.0 podcast.

397
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,209
I can do that, man. I'm giving
it all to you. I'm giving it to

398
00:24:27,209 --> 00:24:27,569
you.

399
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:31,620
And so yeah, that was an that
definitely improved the

400
00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:34,260
experience a lot, I think, and
opened up the door to allow

401
00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:38,910
anybody to add that. The thing I
kind of had some hesitation

402
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:42,720
about that early on, because
there are kind of apps that have

403
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,160
done this. I think you've also
talked about that. Cloud. I

404
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,480
can't think of the name of it
right now. But there are apps,

405
00:24:51,810 --> 00:24:55,530
web apps that allow you to
basically add comments to an

406
00:24:55,530 --> 00:24:58,230
audio file and then people use
it for music. They use it for

407
00:24:58,230 --> 00:25:03,990
podcasts. Yeah, and but that's
just kind of, there's no,

408
00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:06,840
there's no interaction from the
creator there. And that's really

409
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,750
what I what I wanted to include
was an ability for someone

410
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:12,360
actually the who was producing
it to go in and say, yeah, this

411
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:16,740
is a useful comment or this is a
useful point to add in as well.

412
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,300
It's, it's super cool these
types of feedback mechanisms.

413
00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:25,350
Because I think for that very
reason that you want to use it

414
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:28,680
as, as the owner of the of the
content itself, you want to

415
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,550
produce it, but what I've
learned from from day one, and

416
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:37,080
certainly with the value for
value model of how you can make

417
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,920
revenue off of creative works in
today's in a in a new economy, a

418
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:49,830
new digital currency enabled
environment. It's like, you can

419
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:58,110
do so much now. With this
interactivity between the users

420
00:25:58,110 --> 00:26:01,560
and the applications, and they
become a part of the product,

421
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,910
this this is the magic. It's
like contribute to your product.

422
00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:09,660
I people think it doesn't, it
doesn't pertain to their

423
00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:13,800
podcasts. But every podcast can
do this can have if you are not

424
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,240
activating your audience, to be
a part of the show somehow. And

425
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,810
it can be as simple as starring
something but that has to work

426
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:27,390
across all the all the apps, or
as intricate as a as a chapter

427
00:26:27,390 --> 00:26:31,650
with art and a link. You know,
so there's work involved, but

428
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:34,980
and the proof is in the pudding
people raise their hand

429
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:37,860
immediately. Holy crap, how can
I How can I How can I

430
00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:40,290
participate? I mentioned hyper
catcher yesterday, I have no

431
00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:42,300
agenda, you see any uptick in
downloads?

432
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,120
I haven't checked the analytics
for it recently. But I have one

433
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,440
thing I have noticed that's gone
up. Just in the last couple of

434
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,000
days of API usage.

435
00:26:54,270 --> 00:26:55,620
Yeah, your AWS bill?

436
00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:58,830
Well, that's always that's been
up for a while.

437
00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:03,420
Well, but if seriously, for one
moment, how much is it costing

438
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:06,510
you from because and for
everyone to understand, for

439
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:12,390
three of my shows, which is all
I have? I'm using the Dred

440
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:15,870
Scott, he manages the whole
thing with hyper Capture Studio

441
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:21,960
on the back end. And but I'm by
link to your API when Pete when

442
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:25,770
an app requests the chapter
file, so that's putting a load

443
00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:30,930
on you. And until we have, you
know, l SATs or some other thing

444
00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:33,630
enabled, I'm going to put you in
the value block because it's

445
00:27:33,630 --> 00:27:35,940
costing you money. Well, it's.

446
00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:41,520
So there's a couple things. One,
it's not it's not a ton of

447
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,870
money, it was kind of trending
in that direction. Where I was

448
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:47,910
getting a little worried for a
little while, I think I posted

449
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:48,060
it

450
00:27:48,089 --> 00:27:50,069
Not exactly. That's not a good
thing

451
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,540
in there. So part of the problem
was I just, you know, I'm a

452
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:56,820
mobile developer, and I haven't
been building backends for too

453
00:27:56,820 --> 00:27:59,100
long. And so there were simple
things like caching that I

454
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,610
wasn't even doing. I was hitting
the database for every request,

455
00:28:02,610 --> 00:28:06,450
which was super expensive. So
after implementing caching, that

456
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,410
that helped a lot. So that was
trending towards a pretty scary

457
00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:13,860
number. Right now. It's it's
about $100 a month. But that's

458
00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:14,130
kind

459
00:28:14,129 --> 00:28:19,709
of witness young man. That's
unacceptable. day there's

460
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,050
also Dave, there's the other
side of this, you guys are

461
00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:24,630
already helping actually because
this is entirely I'm sure the no

462
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:28,050
agenda audience and and
podcasting 2.0 developers

463
00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:31,470
helping out with this. So I've
got a monthly subscription for

464
00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:35,940
my app. That's, you know, I've
had the app out for a year now.

465
00:28:36,180 --> 00:28:39,450
And just in like the last few
months, it's it's been

466
00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:41,490
increasing a lot the number of
people who are actually

467
00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:46,410
subscribed to only $1 $1 a
month, but I'm making about $33

468
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,490
a month right now and that's

469
00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:48,630
matching numbers.

470
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:55,619
Okay, suggestion on that side of
things, you really need multiple

471
00:28:55,619 --> 00:28:58,379
subscription levels, if at all
possible. I don't know if Apple

472
00:28:58,379 --> 00:29:02,369
lets you do that. But like, I
mean, seriously, if you know, I

473
00:29:02,369 --> 00:29:06,719
did, I subscribe to it. And to
fabric catcher. I mean, if you

474
00:29:06,719 --> 00:29:09,809
had if you had like 10 bucks a
month or 20 bucks a month thing,

475
00:29:09,869 --> 00:29:13,379
you know, I would do it today. I
just can't. Yeah, you need you

476
00:29:13,379 --> 00:29:16,139
need to allow people to pay you
more money. Yes. Which days?

477
00:29:16,139 --> 00:29:16,529
Yes.

478
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:19,770
Dave? Can we? So first of all?

479
00:29:22,859 --> 00:29:23,669
David's

480
00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:27,960
No, it has to be in the in the
split for us. We got to put him

481
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:28,920
in our value block.

482
00:29:29,369 --> 00:29:31,319
Okay. Yeah. Put him next to Dred
Scott.

483
00:29:31,619 --> 00:29:33,869
Yeah, right away. I mean, right
away. I'll

484
00:29:33,870 --> 00:29:36,270
do that. Well, no. Does that
David, do you have a note? Do

485
00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:39,120
you have a I have a lightning
node.

486
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:43,260
Yeah, so I was actually playing
around with the LM pay API

487
00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:47,070
recently. So I've been able to
set up a wallet there and local

488
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:49,320
wallets. I've been using blue
wallet on my

489
00:29:49,890 --> 00:29:53,460
right. Do they have I don't
think lm pay has key send

490
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:57,180
receive enable yet or does it?
They do but you have to have

491
00:29:58,110 --> 00:30:02,430
Guillemot said you have the We
talk to Tim and you have to have

492
00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:06,750
a wallet ID and a custom record.
That's the way it works on the

493
00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:09,600
incoming keyset. Which is, but
we're, we're working on that

494
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,720
right now. Because turns out
Sphinx needs the same thing.

495
00:30:12,750 --> 00:30:16,680
They need another, they need a
key value pair custom key value

496
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:17,580
pair in order to route

497
00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,180
it past their main node. Okay,
so that is that lightning, the

498
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:24,000
lightning labs fix that
everyone's been talking about

499
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,660
and working on.

500
00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:29,970
Not sure. No, no, I think I
don't think so. I think this is

501
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:33,870
just two different use cases
that happen to coincide at the

502
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:34,260
same time.

503
00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:39,240
Okay. All right. So it's coming,
David. Cool. value is coming.

504
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:42,720
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Yeah. It's crazy. Not to pay for

505
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:43,050
that.

506
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,300
I'm super excited about the
about the LMP integration stuff.

507
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:49,830
That's that's the man before

508
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:58,620
you know, you're making $3 a
month. I mean, hold on this 10%

509
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:02,460
I mean, it's just got to do that
times 1000 baby just got to get

510
00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:07,650
some people using your app. I'm
telling you about this. I got

511
00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:11,070
none of you guys charge enough.
I mean, seriously, like

512
00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:16,440
admission they've been beaten
into submission by by Silicon

513
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,270
Valley overlords telling them
your your your 99 cents. Yeah,

514
00:31:21,270 --> 00:31:24,630
shut up over there and sit in
the corner and pay me 1000 for

515
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:25,590
the dev kit.

516
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,330
This year. 1000 for the dev kit,
and you don't you charge more

517
00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:33,360
than 99 cents. I mean, come on
Robin piece of crap.

518
00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:36,330
Yeah, I've let the scales fall
from vineis.

519
00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:41,459
Mom, I'm on martin about this
too. Like, you know, and and

520
00:31:41,459 --> 00:31:45,329
Mitch, at pod verse like at a
bought mitches thing. I'm like,

521
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:48,359
Wait a second. Why can I only
give you like a buck? I mean,

522
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:51,359
like this is not right. Yes.
Yeah. At least give me some

523
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:52,109
tears here.

524
00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:57,510
Exactly. No, you're exactly
exactly right. So what we need

525
00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:57,990
to worry about

526
00:31:57,990 --> 00:32:05,640
clubhouse. See, see if it's
right in though this was the

527
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,870
amount of me up because the with
the A Let me tell you what it

528
00:32:09,870 --> 00:32:14,880
fits in my head is with hyper
catcher, like you have you have

529
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,500
true interactivity with the
product. The product itself is

530
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:25,950
actually changing. When the
audience participates in

531
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:28,530
chapters and that kind of thing.
But with something like

532
00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:35,070
clubhouse, it's more like it has
the appearance of interactivity.

533
00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:38,550
But it's really it's still
there's there's the product,

534
00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:41,370
which is sort of up on the day,
as you know, up here where you

535
00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:44,730
can't get to it. And then
everybody else gets to sort of

536
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:49,020
comment and be and chat down
here. It's, it has the, it has

537
00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:53,100
this sort of appearance of
interactivity where but you

538
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:57,060
still can't really reach the
product. Maybe is that stupid?

539
00:32:57,390 --> 00:32:57,750
No.

540
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:02,610
I'll go back to my analogy,
because this is very consistent

541
00:33:02,610 --> 00:33:06,570
since September since we started
this, even before that, I would

542
00:33:06,570 --> 00:33:11,580
say just in the research portion
of it. This has been a parallel,

543
00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:16,230
it's like the simulator
rebooted. And podcasting is is

544
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:20,430
starting all over again. But
it's an accelerated timeline,

545
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,610
things are happening much
faster. And there's obvious

546
00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:28,470
reasons for that, compared with
16 1718 years ago. We've got

547
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:33,840
tools. So after the initial
explosion of podcasting, then

548
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,740
came the social networks, and
podcasting grew slowly, slowly,

549
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:41,550
slowly underneath all this hype
until people were sick and tired

550
00:33:41,550 --> 00:33:45,630
of it. And they needed something
else. It was also people had

551
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:49,740
been bingeing their asses off
watching Netflix, oh my god, I

552
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:53,940
can and Hulu, I can watch all
five seasons of Breaking Bad,

553
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:58,230
you know, back to back. And
people were burned out. They

554
00:33:58,230 --> 00:34:00,840
were burned out on on all of
that, and I think a little bit

555
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,810
of algo burnout perhaps and so
they and all of a sudden here

556
00:34:03,810 --> 00:34:08,430
was a show serial, and no, no,
no, you have to wait. You can't

557
00:34:08,430 --> 00:34:10,830
hear what's going on until the
next episode, which is next

558
00:34:10,830 --> 00:34:14,220
week, and people were hot. And
they started to just go nuts

559
00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:20,760
about it. So here we have the
perfect storm, where people are

560
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,990
resorting to the final Bastion,
they have a free speech actual

561
00:34:24,990 --> 00:34:29,370
speech. The social networks are
not serving them anymore. It's

562
00:34:29,370 --> 00:34:31,830
it's either not enough
characters or there's too much

563
00:34:31,830 --> 00:34:36,120
being algos, whatever it is.
They're hunkering to be a part

564
00:34:36,150 --> 00:34:40,800
of conversations and podcast.
This is really in my mind.

565
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,660
You're going to see a lot of new
podcasts coming online because

566
00:34:45,660 --> 00:34:51,720
this is podcasting. For poppers,
who don't want to take the or

567
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:54,540
don't feel don't feel the need.
It's nothing wrong with it. feel

568
00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:58,770
the need to figure out what it
takes and they end of course,

569
00:34:58,770 --> 00:35:02,400
this is the complete analog to
Twitter, there are celebrities

570
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,360
here so I can get some of that
celebrity juice. Because that

571
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,200
and this is the mistake that the
marketing this, as you know,

572
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,970
celebrity driven, you can talk
to the CEOs or to the, the the

573
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:18,540
captains of industry. It's
really exciting. And you can

574
00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:22,770
start your own room and know
that at the end of the day,

575
00:35:23,010 --> 00:35:25,860
what's wrong with this and why
people if they don't leave,

576
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,530
because they're not being
satisfied and find that they can

577
00:35:28,530 --> 00:35:32,010
do things, and maybe more
interactive things with

578
00:35:32,010 --> 00:35:40,200
podcasts, which will be building
around them. They will drop off,

579
00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:45,210
or they will be deep platformed
that's coming. And God knows

580
00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:50,580
what a Gora who is the
technology provider is a Chinese

581
00:35:50,580 --> 00:35:54,540
company. God knows what they're
doing. And no one talks about

582
00:35:54,540 --> 00:35:58,350
the talks about that this is a
Shanghai company who provides

583
00:35:58,350 --> 00:36:01,500
the entirety they provided for a
lot of other apps, by the way,

584
00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:05,820
any voice enabled app stuff,
it's a Chinese company under the

585
00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:12,120
hood. So enjoy all that shit,
everybody. So it's going to take

586
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:15,210
several months. I don't know how
long. You know, this is why you

587
00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:18,510
get Mark Cuban. He's a venture
capital guy. He's the guy that

588
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:22,080
said see something and does the
most despicable thing, which

589
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,810
these VC guys always do is I got
a much better version of that in

590
00:36:27,810 --> 00:36:31,950
the hopper is coming out of the
lab. Fuck you Cuban put up or

591
00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:35,430
shut up, get out of my face with
that. That's really annoying.

592
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:39,690
And then I have seen, and then
I'll end here and then we and I

593
00:36:39,690 --> 00:36:42,240
stopped them and I apologize.
We'll stop monopolizing our

594
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:47,640
guests time. I have seen
hardcore bitcoiners you know,

595
00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:50,820
the young guys 2530. You know,
the millennials, the ones doing

596
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:53,910
the work, the ones who are truly
changing the world. And they're

597
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:58,260
sucked up like, hey, let's do a
let's do a Bitcoin clubhouse.

598
00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:02,640
And we'll do it every Thursday.
I'm like, okay, so one, it's

599
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,580
called a podcast, what you want
to do, and you just, you're

600
00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:13,140
trying to find an instant
audience to how can you a a

601
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:17,730
fighter on the tip of freedom of
financial freedom of sovereignty

602
00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:21,540
of finances, want to put your
ass inside a walled garden

603
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:22,860
propped up by China?

604
00:37:26,340 --> 00:37:32,190
100% agree. Yeah. Because I
don't know how you feel about

605
00:37:32,190 --> 00:37:35,820
this. David, I mean, you've been
on clubhouse. I haven't been on

606
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:39,900
it. But it feels like the
beginning. Just like Adam said,

607
00:37:39,930 --> 00:37:42,960
it, just like Adam said, it just
feels like the beginning of so

608
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,530
many things we've seen before.
If you've been around for, you

609
00:37:46,530 --> 00:37:49,650
know, 20 years, we always see
that it's it's exclusive

610
00:37:49,650 --> 00:37:53,520
exclusivity driven access to the
celebrity or access to the big

611
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,640
to the big guy. And then after a
while, I mean, it's just like a

612
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,360
new restaurant pops up. You
always have huge portions for a

613
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,930
great price. You know, four
months later, the portions get

614
00:38:03,930 --> 00:38:08,250
smaller and the price goes up. I
mean, like, there's no, this is

615
00:38:08,250 --> 00:38:11,550
going to this is not going to
continue like it is I mean, the

616
00:38:11,550 --> 00:38:16,080
big guys are not going to stay.
I mean, like, VC guys are gonna

617
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,450
sit there on clubhouse for three
hours a day. That's

618
00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:23,100
not gonna happen. I'm sitting in
the parallel timeline. I can

619
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:27,900
tell you what's next. Next will
be the clubhouse fail whale.

620
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,870
It's coming. It's coming. It's
coming. Oh,

621
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:34,080
I've gotten it. I've gotten it
multiple times. Musk was in a

622
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,780
room the other day and you
cannot get into that room. It

623
00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:40,710
was it was impossible. There you
go. That's that's actually one

624
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:42,870
of the things that's starting to
pop up is kind of the

625
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:45,150
journalists starting to get
upset that when they can't get

626
00:38:45,150 --> 00:38:48,480
into a room much like Adam, when
you're talking about Kara

627
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,730
Swisher his initial reactions,

628
00:38:51,209 --> 00:38:54,689
right? Yes. Ooh, how do we
contain this evil shit?

629
00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:58,290
Right? That's, that's a take
that's starting to pop up more

630
00:38:58,290 --> 00:39:02,640
and more. Number one, how do we
contain it? And then why, you

631
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,240
know, why isn't it being blocked
wire and people being d

632
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,470
platformed. For saying things
already. But you know, I don't

633
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:13,170
have access to certain
individuals that have blocked me

634
00:39:13,170 --> 00:39:16,890
or or I can't get into the room
because it's full. Right? Which,

635
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,550
which is why

636
00:39:17,550 --> 00:39:23,940
I I dedicate myself to the to
this generation to make places

637
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:29,100
that are free and you can't be
kicked out denied access, etc. I

638
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:33,690
mean, this is beautiful. And I
love seeing the same journalists

639
00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:37,080
going writing and I'm going on
television saying well, you

640
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,870
know, where's the social control
over this stuff? But still

641
00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:45,930
screws are like, Whoa, we're on
Wow, man. This is great. We're

642
00:39:45,930 --> 00:39:48,510
doing something important. I
can't spend a moment on

643
00:39:48,510 --> 00:39:51,870
clubhouse. I'm thinking about
every app developer How can I

644
00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:54,630
make the lives better? Get them
to get them paid?

645
00:39:55,290 --> 00:39:59,550
When is when is Dan Benjamin
gonna get a fire up the lawyers

646
00:39:59,550 --> 00:40:03,060
and go out After cube and for
fireside I mean, that's clearly

647
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:07,980
I mean, clearly trademark issue
there. So fireside Yes.

648
00:40:08,220 --> 00:40:10,440
I presume he he trademarked it.

649
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:12,810
Got to come on Dan.

650
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:17,010
Ready has enough beer man. But
you know, man, that's that's a

651
00:40:17,010 --> 00:40:20,580
tough path baby. That's a tough
path he's got to find someone

652
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:24,150
who wants to take Yeah, I mean,
what will wind up happening best

653
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:27,720
case scenario if Cuban is
sincere? And I've been through

654
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:31,380
it it's a Lanham Act lawsuit
have had it with mtv.com. I've

655
00:40:31,410 --> 00:40:36,060
been exposed to these terms and
in the courtroom itself, as well

656
00:40:36,060 --> 00:40:39,990
as a copyright and trademark
recently. with Laura Logan has

657
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:43,740
no agenda, you had a trademark
dispute. And we actually like

658
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:46,710
her and we said, okay, look, you
can, you can use that that's

659
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:50,370
okay. But you can't just say you
can't have plastered on an ad,

660
00:40:50,370 --> 00:40:53,460
Laura Logan, no agenda, you got
to like do the whole sentence.

661
00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:59,640
So we have no rules about how,
how they can use that. But we

662
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,270
were just lucky we have. We have
several lawyers amongst the

663
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:06,660
producers. And one of them did
this for us pro bono. And that

664
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:10,470
would have cost us 1000s and
1000s and 1000s of dollars. So,

665
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,460
so best case scenario is they
make you go away with some

666
00:41:14,460 --> 00:41:17,100
money, which can make you happy,
but you lose the brand you

667
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:17,790
worked for.

668
00:41:18,990 --> 00:41:22,920
What do you think, David? What
do you think is like it around

669
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,820
the clubhouse sort of model?
It's like, you know, one of

670
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:29,040
these guys pops up. And then
there's five copycats. I mean,

671
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:36,660
is there is I think, okay, from
my thinking. And I think Kevin

672
00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:40,530
fan at buzzsprout mentioned this
to me the other day that if the

673
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:46,800
really the next phase of the
namespace or podcasting 2.0 it

674
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,010
really probably shouldn't be
something along the lines of

675
00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:55,560
chat discussion, interactivity,
you know, and I really have no,

676
00:41:56,070 --> 00:41:59,520
sort of, that's one of those
things where you can you can

677
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,790
think of like five different
directions that could go. And

678
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:05,460
I'm not sure which one is the
right one. And it's a really

679
00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:08,700
super complicated idea. I mean,
not to throw you on the spot.

680
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:11,400
But I mean, do you have sort of
any inkling of how you would

681
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,590
begin to sort of fry that fish?

682
00:42:14,850 --> 00:42:17,460
Yeah, I've been thinking about
it a little bit as well. And

683
00:42:17,490 --> 00:42:20,430
yeah, I've kind of come to the
same conclusion right now. Like

684
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,370
it's kind of a different beast,
in some ways. It's, it's not

685
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:30,720
really something I have a lot of
experience with. It would be

686
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,020
interesting, though. Just to
defend clubhouse a little bit,

687
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:37,020
though, not that I disagree with
anything that's been said. But

688
00:42:37,769 --> 00:42:41,159
no, you can't defend anything we
don't like, Okay. That's not

689
00:42:41,159 --> 00:42:41,669
allowed.

690
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,140
There are some interesting
things about clubhouse. So one

691
00:42:46,140 --> 00:42:50,940
of the things is the fact that
journalists are trying, you

692
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:54,810
know, to silence people. The
reason is, because it's it's

693
00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:57,510
really difficult to do that
right now. So there are some

694
00:42:57,510 --> 00:43:00,930
wild conversations going on
there that, you know,

695
00:43:01,530 --> 00:43:04,290
how does the moderation work?
Does it does the moderator have

696
00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:06,780
a panel? And they can mute and
unmute? And how does that work

697
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:09,090
with hundreds or 1000s of
people? What are the limits?

698
00:43:09,090 --> 00:43:12,090
I've never I've never used that.
I have seen the screenshots. I

699
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:12,750
know what it does.

700
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,870
Yeah, it's super interesting.
I'd definitely recommend just

701
00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:19,200
like checking it out. But it's,
it's it's pretty interesting

702
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,900
moderation style. So you've got
your speakers who are

703
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:25,830
moderators, and they can, they
actually have control, that'd be

704
00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:28,830
like maybe one or two moderators
for a room, and they can

705
00:43:28,830 --> 00:43:32,070
actually control who is brought
up on stage. And if you're on

706
00:43:32,070 --> 00:43:34,770
stage, then you can talk you
can't necessarily bring anyone

707
00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:37,890
else on stage. But you can talk,
you can unmute your microphone,

708
00:43:37,890 --> 00:43:42,210
that sort of thing. And the
moderation side of it. So the

709
00:43:42,210 --> 00:43:45,660
moderators can obviously remove
someone, the amount of room,

710
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,720
keep them from speaking, but
then other people in the room

711
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,590
can also go and report your
account and eventually get you

712
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:56,760
blocked. So people can block
you. And if you're blocked, then

713
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,050
you can't join a room with that
person that's running the room.

714
00:44:01,950 --> 00:44:05,940
So there's some interest that's
kind of where some of the issues

715
00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:08,490
are coming up. Right now. We're
Taylor llorens, a New York Times

716
00:44:08,490 --> 00:44:11,820
reporter was blocked by Marc
Andreessen. He was in a room

717
00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:16,500
with Elan musk speaking and she
couldn't join the room. So she

718
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:18,810
had a kind of a, she was upset
about that.

719
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,370
And what's interesting is, you
know, I heard that Ilan thing I

720
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:28,530
heard two different you know,
because eventually they just get

721
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:30,450
put on YouTube or whatever, and
you're able to,

722
00:44:31,110 --> 00:44:31,680
exactly.

723
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:38,250
I like Ilan, but, you know, he
was talking to Vlad from Robin

724
00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:40,740
Hood, and Leon doesn't know shit
about what he's talking about.

725
00:44:40,770 --> 00:44:43,140
He doesn't know about the DTC
doesn't know about the

726
00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:46,440
settlements that happened. He
really doesn't understand. So,

727
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:51,480
you know, to me, it was if
anything really bad, because a

728
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,830
lot of people got to hear the
spin from Vlad the CEO which

729
00:44:55,860 --> 00:45:04,350
Ilan had no way of of Get no
parry for it. Right? But you

730
00:45:04,350 --> 00:45:07,050
can't expect him to because it's
not necessarily his field of

731
00:45:07,050 --> 00:45:10,650
expertise. But that's a great
way for people. It's like, I

732
00:45:10,650 --> 00:45:13,830
don't want to see sports people
interviewing Bill Gates, you

733
00:45:13,830 --> 00:45:17,460
know, Kobe Bryant, not Kobe
Bryant sorry. Maybe that was

734
00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:19,890
actually I think Kobe did
interview Bill Gates before the

735
00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:24,180
accident. I was like, I don't
want to see that. But anyway, so

736
00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:27,060
that's, that's fine. That I
guess that works. But just seems

737
00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:30,750
simple. But it was the
excitement is the excitement,

738
00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:33,390
you can raise your hand and
maybe get picked on stage? Can

739
00:45:33,390 --> 00:45:37,560
you whisper amongst other people
in the room? Can you say

740
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,000
something to somebody else?

741
00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:42,180
Yeah, that I wish there was some
sort of in room chat feature. So

742
00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:44,190
if you're not on stage, you're
just listening. That's all you

743
00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:46,950
can do, besides raise your hand
and ask to get on stage, which

744
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:49,800
you'll be ignored on a big room
like that. But I would

745
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,500
definitely say one of the most
interesting experiences I've had

746
00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:56,100
on there, there was a room
discussing some of the issues in

747
00:45:56,100 --> 00:46:01,200
San Francisco. And some of the
kind of crime issues that have

748
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,270
been happening there. And kind
of, there was a lot of talk

749
00:46:06,270 --> 00:46:11,940
about the DA in San Francisco,
Jason bodeen. And so there's

750
00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:16,080
room with some VCs kind of
discussing it. And someone told

751
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,600
him about it. And he actually
joined the room. So as they were

752
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,300
kind of discussing it, and kind
of blaming him for the issues,

753
00:46:22,110 --> 00:46:25,590
which, which I, which I do think
he's responsible for a lot of

754
00:46:25,590 --> 00:46:27,930
them. But I thought it was kind
of cool that he actually joined

755
00:46:27,930 --> 00:46:30,810
the room and kind of they
brought him up on stage and join

756
00:46:30,810 --> 00:46:33,960
the conversation, where they had
a kind of a big conversation

757
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,290
about the issues, specifically.
Exactly, exactly. So

758
00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:42,150
the and if I were to do
something for clubhouse, I would

759
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:45,570
take this podcast and record
each of us on a separate track,

760
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:49,890
I'd play that back, and have
each track go to an account in a

761
00:46:49,890 --> 00:46:55,650
room with me onstage, so the
three of us are on stage, and

762
00:46:55,650 --> 00:46:58,410
this conversation is taking
place. But to the audience, it

763
00:46:58,410 --> 00:47:00,450
looks like we're on stage, and
we're each speaking

764
00:47:00,450 --> 00:47:05,520
individually. And the appeal
there I think is very, very

765
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,680
powerful. There's two things
one, it's a great sample. So if

766
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,210
you could only skim through
podcast episodes that fast and

767
00:47:15,210 --> 00:47:18,300
get that kind of an immediate
hit. Oh, okay, this is what this

768
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:22,170
is about. It's almost like being
at a conference, where you go to

769
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,510
one session house is boring, I'm
gonna leave, get out of that

770
00:47:24,510 --> 00:47:26,880
session, go to another one. So
you're, you're in there. And

771
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,300
then when something is really
interesting, you have a

772
00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:34,080
theoretical opportunity that you
get to participate in that. I

773
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,530
think the chance is obviously
quite small, depending on the

774
00:47:37,530 --> 00:47:41,910
topic, the the panel and the
size of the audience. But it is

775
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:46,350
a model that is important for us
to look at that ability to join

776
00:47:46,350 --> 00:47:50,010
in now. That's not the nature of
podcasts, which is real time.

777
00:47:50,610 --> 00:47:54,150
But there's that need people
want to participate and you see

778
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:58,650
it in. In Super chats on
YouTube, you see it with the

779
00:47:58,860 --> 00:48:02,100
with the like, buttons, it's all
all this feedback that we have

780
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:07,650
completely failed on as as, as a
as a protocol.

781
00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:11,459
Yeah, I actually see what you
guys just did the other day with

782
00:48:11,459 --> 00:48:14,729
the zoom call about Elon pay was
pretty much a clubhouse room

783
00:48:14,759 --> 00:48:15,119
like,

784
00:48:15,810 --> 00:48:19,560
correct. Pretty cool, right? I
mean, they're talking jitsi is

785
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,640
the same as clubhouse to me.
Right? It really is. It's just

786
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:29,640
but make no mistake. clubhouse
along with cashapp are the

787
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,170
blackest apps in the app store.
And I got turned on to clubhouse

788
00:48:34,170 --> 00:48:37,680
by Moe, he told me months ago,
he says, Adam, you got to keep

789
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,500
your eye on this shit. And
there's a couple of reasons for

790
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:44,670
it. They're also paying people.
This is this is another part of

791
00:48:44,670 --> 00:48:49,980
the launch strategy. Pay people.
That's the library's doing that

792
00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:52,830
too late Library's doing that
too, you know, they've got $100

793
00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:55,200
million. They've given away
grants, they're paying people to

794
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:02,820
use their platform. And, and,
ultimately, you got to have pain

795
00:49:02,820 --> 00:49:05,640
before you before you learn. And
a lot of people are going to go

796
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,940
through the pain of being deep
platformed having their you

797
00:49:08,940 --> 00:49:12,720
know, something taken away,
getting kicked off being limited

798
00:49:12,750 --> 00:49:16,710
features going away, whatever it
is, you don't control it. So

799
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:20,340
it's just but the analog is,
that'll be with us for several

800
00:49:20,340 --> 00:49:22,440
months, people are gonna be
talking about that shit, and

801
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,670
then we can build when they're
all done, then we'll be there

802
00:49:26,670 --> 00:49:31,470
ready for them? And I think
these community features so I

803
00:49:31,470 --> 00:49:32,760
tell you guys a dream that I
had.

804
00:49:34,410 --> 00:49:36,870
Yeah, before. Okay. All right,
here we go.

805
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:44,160
The dream was that if I wanted
to place a comment on a show I

806
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,950
was listening to. I'm going to
give you the Adam Curry Rube

807
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:53,190
Goldberg version. I would in my
app, I type a little comment. By

808
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:58,530
hit go. It sends a payment a
lightning payment to the to the

809
00:49:58,530 --> 00:50:03,690
splits to buy The podcast or the
app also gets it of course. And,

810
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:08,460
and my comment is in that
payment, regardless of the size

811
00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:12,090
of the payment, which will be
determined. It then is

812
00:50:12,090 --> 00:50:17,460
immediately picked up by a bot
or an API or something else that

813
00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:25,230
posts that comment to a telegram
channel, an IRC chat, or back to

814
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,270
the app itself. And not only do
you have a comment placed in

815
00:50:30,270 --> 00:50:33,480
context of when you were
listening, you can also get all

816
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:38,070
those when you play the show
back again. So pretty much like

817
00:50:38,070 --> 00:50:42,780
Sphinx is doing. Only we still
have to figure out that one

818
00:50:42,780 --> 00:50:46,500
magical piece in the middle. And
that would work theoretically,

819
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:49,860
across all apps. It's just you
have to sync up the the time

820
00:50:49,860 --> 00:50:54,300
codes, and maybe that flows into
a separate file. But even before

821
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:56,490
you get that into the app
itself, I thought it would just

822
00:50:56,490 --> 00:50:59,820
be cool. Even just have a
telegram channel that updates

823
00:50:59,820 --> 00:51:02,940
when someone comments or when
someone boosts or when someone

824
00:51:03,180 --> 00:51:06,780
does something else. I mean,
that by itself would be a start.

825
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:10,440
Sounds doable?

826
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,470
Yeah. But do you do like the
idea that it is doable? Is that

827
00:51:13,470 --> 00:51:13,980
something that

828
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,360
what I'm hearing? What are your
thoughts? David, what I'm

829
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,950
hearing? Is that is that you?
You could do this with some sort

830
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:31,710
of, or what makes the most sense
to me is some sort of DHT or, or

831
00:51:31,710 --> 00:51:35,400
blockchain or something like,
because otherwise, you're just

832
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,600
going to be left with somebody
runs somebody running somebody,

833
00:51:39,630 --> 00:51:42,720
somebody running something. Yep,
exactly. But can you see the

834
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:44,670
steps to get where we need to
be?

835
00:51:46,110 --> 00:51:48,450
I mean, it kind of sounds like
community chapters, but with a

836
00:51:48,450 --> 00:51:50,100
paid component. Were you

837
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:56,790
told that that's the beauty the
beauty of the paid component? Is

838
00:51:56,790 --> 00:52:01,410
it eliminates bullshit? Because
if you got high bullshit on your

839
00:52:01,410 --> 00:52:06,540
comments, oh, it's 100 satoshis
to comment. Right? Oh, all of a

840
00:52:06,540 --> 00:52:08,400
sudden, people are gonna be a
little more careful.

841
00:52:09,390 --> 00:52:12,300
I think that could eventually be
the thing. Like I think Hi,

842
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,570
bullshit. issues is definitely
why SoundCloud comments aren't

843
00:52:15,570 --> 00:52:18,270
very useful. And that was the
app I was trying to think of

844
00:52:18,270 --> 00:52:20,100
earlier. They got a SoundCloud
Yes,

845
00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:22,350
exactly. On the tie. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

846
00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:27,690
Right. But then, you know, I'm
also I think, getting people to,

847
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:32,700
to leave comments right now or
community chapters in an apps to

848
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:36,720
begin with, is faster. Also, I
think adding the payments on to

849
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:39,360
begin with, I think there just
needs to be adoption of getting

850
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,910
people to realize that they can
do that. And, you know, getting

851
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:46,980
people to, to get used to adding
comments in some fashion. And

852
00:52:46,980 --> 00:52:49,560
then I think once once you
actually have that part of

853
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,620
itself, where people are wanting
to do it, then adding in the

854
00:52:52,620 --> 00:52:54,570
payments would probably be
something that SoundCloud should

855
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:56,670
have done a while ago to bring
up the quality of their

856
00:52:56,670 --> 00:52:57,330
comments.

857
00:52:57,990 --> 00:53:00,660
Yeah, and I would, I would just
say, I'm not waiting for

858
00:53:00,660 --> 00:53:03,180
anything. I'm gonna keep pushing
everybody on these things.

859
00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:07,170
Because what have I seen the
chapters is the best example

860
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,990
chapters and location and
transcript. I mean, it's blown

861
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:14,280
me away. And, and there's
adoption, you know, but it if we

862
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,710
wait for that chicken in the
egg, as long as you've got a

863
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:22,590
couple of Long You got one app
and one feed Tool Company, and

864
00:53:22,590 --> 00:53:27,510
you've or tool entity and you've
got one creator, you just keep

865
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:30,870
showing people how to do it, and
then eventually people go, Ah,

866
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,900
okay, yeah, I'd like that. Or I
have a different use case, or I

867
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:38,010
have a reason for it. Everything
falls in place. The the

868
00:53:38,010 --> 00:53:41,820
onboarding of lightning now I've
been I've been following

869
00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:45,570
everything very closely.
onboarding is being done for us,

870
00:53:45,570 --> 00:53:50,520
hello, Visa, hello, MasterCard.
I mean, these guys are in the

871
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:51,270
game now.

872
00:53:52,830 --> 00:53:55,560
They're just, they just, they're
lagging on lightning, though.

873
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,350
That's what bothers me. Ah, it's
but that you know, that's all

874
00:53:58,350 --> 00:54:02,820
gonna happen. Because all we
have, essentially the only way

875
00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:08,370
that we have the only on
simplistic onboarding, onto

876
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:11,580
lightning right now is strike.
But when I say simplistic, I

877
00:54:11,580 --> 00:54:14,310
mean, like, I mean, I mean,
simplistic, not just from a user

878
00:54:14,310 --> 00:54:21,090
experience standpoint, but from
but from a financial, monetary

879
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,140
tax, all that stuff standpoint,
because once you get into the

880
00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:31,110
beauty of strike is, is I can
get, I can pull 20 bucks off my

881
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:34,470
debit card into my strike
wallet, and then I can send it

882
00:54:34,470 --> 00:54:37,560
to another strike user and it
goes straight. And it never, it

883
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:43,410
never leaves. The Fiat system.
It never it never gets. You

884
00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:46,590
don't ever see that as being
converted to lightning, or I can

885
00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:49,950
send it to another lightning app
and it becomes lightning. So

886
00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:54,180
that you know, the problem with
with other apps is you get to

887
00:54:54,180 --> 00:54:55,380
convert it to lightning.

888
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,850
I'm just just going to disagree
because, okay, it's all it's all

889
00:54:59,850 --> 00:55:03,420
too. taking place there are
people are into bitcoin already

890
00:55:03,420 --> 00:55:06,600
if they've already purchased
Bitcoin, it's a small leap,

891
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:13,050
you're still thinking, like my
wife to a degree, you know, and

892
00:55:13,050 --> 00:55:15,960
I know that, you know, they're
using plaid as their middleware

893
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,900
for strike and visa tried to buy
plaid, they was anti

894
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:20,790
competitive, they weren't
allowed to. So they said, fuck

895
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:23,190
it, we need to do that
ourselves. So it's all going to

896
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:26,700
take place that onboarding, I'm
just not worried about. In fact,

897
00:55:26,790 --> 00:55:31,020
I really don't want those users
right now. I want users who at

898
00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:36,630
least have bought a Bitcoin,
have maybe seen a QR code, kind

899
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:40,350
of have some clue about stuff,
but definitely have seen the

900
00:55:40,350 --> 00:55:45,390
value or, or that it represents
value. And then it's a small

901
00:55:45,390 --> 00:55:49,650
step, I think from getting them
to a lightning wallet or get

902
00:55:50,250 --> 00:55:55,170
cash app is going to do this
cash app is going to do it. By

903
00:55:55,170 --> 00:55:58,140
the time we're ready, the first
ones will be making it easier

904
00:55:58,140 --> 00:56:02,370
besides strike I just did
everything about this is saying

905
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,980
this is how it's gonna happen.
And the zap wallet, although not

906
00:56:04,980 --> 00:56:08,220
appropriate. For someone who
doesn't have a node, I think

907
00:56:08,220 --> 00:56:12,480
they're doing it the right way.
And actually, have you looked at

908
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:19,320
the Phoenix wallet from that's
the French guys. I mean, they're

909
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,300
obfuscating everything. And this
just send receive, there's no no

910
00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:28,200
real lightning talk. It's one
balance, they don't separate it,

911
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:31,170
you know, you put your money and
now they charge a fee for

912
00:56:31,170 --> 00:56:33,540
everything you're doing. But
that's that's completely in the

913
00:56:33,540 --> 00:56:35,820
background, you show up with
your bank, you show up with your

914
00:56:35,820 --> 00:56:38,670
credit card, your debit card,
they take care of the rest,

915
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,720
that's all happening. It's and
it's and it's rolling out very,

916
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:45,270
very quickly. And it has to look
at the market.

917
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:53,040
You know, one thing I think is
interesting about about hyper

918
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:59,820
Catcher in in regards to all of
this talk is the UI within hyper

919
00:56:59,820 --> 00:57:03,750
catcher is a diff, it's a
different experience than a

920
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:08,100
typical podcast app. Like when
you when you boot up hyper

921
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:11,730
catcher it took the first time I
opened it took me a minute to

922
00:57:11,730 --> 00:57:16,080
figure out what was going on,
because I'm used to just this

923
00:57:16,110 --> 00:57:19,710
inbox style. Okay, you're in,
okay, here is your list of

924
00:57:19,710 --> 00:57:24,210
podcasts. When you get into
hyper capture the UI, it looks

925
00:57:24,210 --> 00:57:27,960
like sort of like a, I don't
know, almost like a toolbox or

926
00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:31,710
not, it's not the right example.
It's like being on a on a on

927
00:57:31,710 --> 00:57:35,310
somebody's personal website,
where they have like, you know,

928
00:57:35,310 --> 00:57:38,970
like a blog, roll over here and
sign up for the newsletter here.

929
00:57:38,970 --> 00:57:42,330
And here's the main content. And
like they have, there's

930
00:57:42,330 --> 00:57:47,550
different sections of your sort
of main home UI. And I think

931
00:57:47,580 --> 00:57:51,240
there's a little bit of an
advantage here, when it comes to

932
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,090
adding on extra pieces, like
we're talking about, like

933
00:57:54,090 --> 00:58:00,030
lightning, or chit chat features
or maybe soundbites, there's

934
00:58:00,030 --> 00:58:03,180
like an advantage that you have,
because you've your your UI is

935
00:58:03,180 --> 00:58:06,390
already laid out in such a way
where people expect there to be

936
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:10,230
different, like different pieces
that you can interact with on

937
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:10,950
the UI.

938
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,550
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely
some experimentation going on

939
00:58:14,550 --> 00:58:17,730
there. So I've got a lot of
different things that, you know,

940
00:58:17,730 --> 00:58:21,120
you wouldn't normally finding a
podcast app that I think makes

941
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,240
it a little confusing sometimes.
But it also gives me the ability

942
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,630
to kind of expand and try out
different things. So like

943
00:58:27,630 --> 00:58:29,100
newsletters is the newest thing.

944
00:58:29,370 --> 00:58:31,230
Yeah. Like, see, that's what's
thinking. I was like, You got

945
00:58:31,230 --> 00:58:34,410
newsletters there. And then like
Adam was just talking about with

946
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:39,390
with, like, if you integrate a
wallet, pay? Yeah. It's just

947
00:58:39,390 --> 00:58:41,310
like, our new little section
where it's like, okay, you're

948
00:58:41,310 --> 00:58:45,150
always I've always just see my
lightning balance there. And not

949
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:45,720
only do I

950
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,470
agree with what you're saying
about that, Dave. But there's, I

951
00:58:49,470 --> 00:58:53,220
think, again, David hit on
something with his UI that that

952
00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:57,840
I'm just now realizing where
some ideas came from. So if you

953
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,380
look at his podcasts and
episodes, which is I had kind of

954
00:59:01,410 --> 00:59:03,150
that was for me, the thing I had
to figure it out. It's like,

955
00:59:03,150 --> 00:59:07,470
Okay, what am I seeing here?
What is this list? And, and I

956
00:59:07,470 --> 00:59:11,520
use pod friend a lot. And I
think what we're seeing as a

957
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,150
model, besides the traditional
inbox is, here's your most

958
00:59:15,150 --> 00:59:19,260
recent updated episodes, which
is just a running list

959
00:59:20,190 --> 00:59:24,150
hierarchy, and you kind of have
a breadcrumbs. Separate from

960
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:28,860
that. And here's what you listen
to most recently. Right?

961
00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:32,490
Something like that seems to be
evolving as some universal

962
00:59:32,490 --> 00:59:36,210
interface that people are being
drawn to. Do you feel that way,

963
00:59:36,210 --> 00:59:38,130
dude? Yeah, I

964
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:40,410
mean, that's definitely what I
was what I was going for, I

965
00:59:40,410 --> 00:59:44,790
actually just kind of built it
the way that I wanted a podcast

966
00:59:44,790 --> 00:59:48,690
app to work. So whenever I would
open a podcast app that I'd

967
00:59:48,690 --> 00:59:53,430
normally have to set it up to
show me like a rolling. There's

968
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:55,440
a lot of hot podcast apps that
are actually really full

969
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,440
featured in this area that that
hyper catcher is not and that

970
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,870
you can set up different types
of subscripts lists, you can

971
01:00:00,870 --> 01:00:04,020
have the different lists, sorted
in different ways based on the

972
01:00:04,020 --> 01:00:08,670
podcast or latest episode. And,
you know, I just kind of built

973
01:00:08,670 --> 01:00:11,100
it in one way. And one way to
just be lazy. And the other way

974
01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:14,430
is just like, I feel like it's
the best way to, to present

975
01:00:14,430 --> 01:00:17,430
podcasts to the user is just
kind of a rolling list of

976
01:00:17,460 --> 01:00:20,430
Alright, so if you subscribe to
a podcast, you've got the no

977
01:00:20,430 --> 01:00:24,420
agenda podcast, the podcasting
2.0 podcasts, you can go to

978
01:00:24,420 --> 01:00:28,290
those individual pages and see
the whole episode list. And

979
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,390
that's kind of a separate
experience, or you can go to

980
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:32,580
your subscriptions, and then
you're just gonna get a rolling

981
01:00:32,580 --> 01:00:35,340
list of whatever is new. So you
just open that in the morning,

982
01:00:35,340 --> 01:00:38,460
and you should see the latest
podcasts, exactly those from

983
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:45,210
those apps. Exactly. Like, yeah,
it wasn't necessarily an

984
01:00:45,210 --> 01:00:50,160
intentional, you know, thinking
that this is where, you know,

985
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,070
everything is going, but it was
kind of, that's the way I wanted

986
01:00:53,070 --> 01:00:57,690
it to work. And, and I just
wanted this little setup as

987
01:00:57,690 --> 01:00:59,070
possible to get started with it.

988
01:00:59,130 --> 01:01:04,140
So the hyper Capture Studio,
which creates the JSON, which

989
01:01:04,140 --> 01:01:07,050
comes from the API, which is
costing you about 100 bucks a

990
01:01:07,050 --> 01:01:14,280
month, and you're welcome. How
prepared Are you in the way we

991
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,280
operate here is the days of free
are over. That doesn't mean that

992
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,160
you can't get access to
something we still think value

993
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:24,810
for value is important. But I
want to help you evaluate this

994
01:01:24,810 --> 01:01:29,160
model. Because right, so now
it's no agenda show, which

995
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,420
probably pushes the most traffic
to the API. But what if three

996
01:01:33,420 --> 01:01:36,480
more show up or five more or a
whole bunch of other people

997
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,300
really start digging this idea?
How do we set you up for

998
01:01:39,300 --> 01:01:42,930
success? And is that something
we can solve with the value

999
01:01:42,930 --> 01:01:45,900
payments? Or do we need to look
at something more distributed?

1000
01:01:45,930 --> 01:01:51,210
Or you tell me maybe that maybe
it is the way to go is to get

1001
01:01:51,210 --> 01:01:59,730
rid of because I just, I've run
services? You know, Dave, tell

1002
01:01:59,730 --> 01:02:03,360
us about the running podcast.
index.org, how much there is of

1003
01:02:03,540 --> 01:02:06,480
requests, and people have
questions and things and you

1004
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:07,350
know, there's a lot of work.

1005
01:02:07,350 --> 01:02:10,710
Yeah, I mean, it's two, three
emails, you know, sometimes a

1006
01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:15,870
day of people needing you know,
hey, as I changed an episode

1007
01:02:15,870 --> 01:02:19,200
from, you know, 300 episodes
back in my feed, and it didn't

1008
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,780
update in the index, can you?
Can you hear what am I doing

1009
01:02:21,780 --> 01:02:25,050
wrong? It's like, I don't know,
let me go look, you know, it's

1010
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,050
there's a lot of there's a lot
of pain points. Yeah, I

1011
01:02:28,050 --> 01:02:31,020
mean, part of my hesitation is
definitely like those issues. My

1012
01:02:31,020 --> 01:02:34,050
hesitation that charge people is
because once I start charging, I

1013
01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:36,840
feel like then there's gonna be
an expectation of things should

1014
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:37,050
work.

1015
01:02:38,970 --> 01:02:42,660
Let me say this that, David, I
know that feeling. Yeah. And I

1016
01:02:42,660 --> 01:02:45,900
think you need to get over that
failing at because the thing

1017
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:49,410
about it is like, you can't,
there is that mindset that

1018
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:52,260
exists where it says I can't
start charging people money

1019
01:02:52,260 --> 01:02:56,460
until this thing is perfect. But
you that I don't like that,

1020
01:02:56,460 --> 01:03:00,750
because you, you know, the thing
is you're doing you are doing,

1021
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:04,140
you're presenting this product,
and it is what it is, and you

1022
01:03:04,140 --> 01:03:07,860
need, you know, you've decided
that it has value. And if they

1023
01:03:07,860 --> 01:03:10,110
decide that it doesn't have
value, will they'll just go do

1024
01:03:10,110 --> 01:03:12,450
something else. I mean, they
don't, you know, you don't have

1025
01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:16,080
that, that mindset, I know it
exists. And I've had it before

1026
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,800
too. And I you know, I have it,
you know, with other things, but

1027
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,440
like, I think there is this
idea, we do need to get over

1028
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,670
this idea that you can't like,
once you like look at the See, I

1029
01:03:26,670 --> 01:03:29,040
don't mean go on and on about
this, but but look at something

1030
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,690
like we look at all the stuff
that we buy on a daily basis.

1031
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,370
That works half the time, and
infuriating. I mean, look at

1032
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,660
look at things like the perfect
example. Two weeks ago, you

1033
01:03:42,660 --> 01:03:47,820
know, I'm trying to get my 10
year old daughter to try and get

1034
01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:51,840
her set up with my Minecraft,
you know, and we paid 30 bucks

1035
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,390
for Minecraft or whatever. And
so, you know, she's had it for a

1036
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:57,150
while. Well, it just wouldn't
work. I mean, I spent like three

1037
01:03:57,180 --> 01:04:00,570
hours trying to fix this thing.
Before I finally just said,

1038
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,380
screw it. I blew the whole thing
away started over she lost her

1039
01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:08,100
world all this kind of stuff.
Like that was no daddy. I know.

1040
01:04:08,340 --> 01:04:13,290
That was all night long. And for
and I had paid $30 for this

1041
01:04:13,290 --> 01:04:16,980
thing. And it didn't work. So
that's the thing is is I mean

1042
01:04:16,980 --> 01:04:18,030
things things just don't work.

1043
01:04:18,060 --> 01:04:22,950
here's a here's an analogy. That
is worth looking@voltage.io

1044
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:30,180
Graham. Yeah, he charges money.
We pay him we bought a node for

1045
01:04:30,180 --> 01:04:34,140
a year from him a special beefed
up note I have in my personal

1046
01:04:34,140 --> 01:04:38,880
note, which is 10 bucks a month
or maybe 12. springs, I couldn't

1047
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,060
give they would not take our
money. Now I don't think it's a

1048
01:04:42,060 --> 01:04:46,080
money issue. But you know, so
we're just blowing out channels,

1049
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,490
you know, we're doing that 333
to 330 3000 SATs like boom

1050
01:04:50,490 --> 01:04:54,480
channels clogged too much money,
you know, it wasn't expected. So

1051
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,380
there's all these things that
come into play. When you charge

1052
01:04:58,380 --> 01:05:01,380
people use the service,
different And I think that

1053
01:05:01,380 --> 01:05:04,860
Sphinx might have been able to
grow smoother if they're

1054
01:05:04,890 --> 01:05:06,840
people's own pin on the line.

1055
01:05:07,140 --> 01:05:08,760
Yeah. You know, yeah,

1056
01:05:08,790 --> 01:05:15,720
I mean, so I think I actually
had a Microsoft, or Minecraft

1057
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,410
Lost Worlds situation recently,
where Dred Scott was working on

1058
01:05:19,410 --> 01:05:22,830
updating some chapters from the
agenda, switch tabs came back

1059
01:05:22,860 --> 01:05:29,400
and all of his those sorts of
things that things that like

1060
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,820
really worry me. So I actually
figured that one out. I haven't

1061
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:34,980
I haven't updated that yet. So
there are a couple of like,

1062
01:05:34,980 --> 01:05:38,610
major issues that I want to get
to before switching on some sort

1063
01:05:38,610 --> 01:05:41,910
of payment for that, because I
feel terrible when things like

1064
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:42,480
that happen.

1065
01:05:42,570 --> 01:05:44,910
Let's see, you know, I'll drive
this point again, though, that

1066
01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:49,620
that that situation is gonna
suck, no matter if they pay or

1067
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:53,340
if they don't pay, and you don't
get here it is you don't get off

1068
01:05:53,340 --> 01:05:58,230
the hook. Just pay, you're still
gonna get an email about it, and

1069
01:05:58,230 --> 01:06:00,990
you're still gonna have to deal
with it. And would it be nice to

1070
01:06:00,990 --> 01:06:03,720
be paid for having to deal with
it rather than not be paid?

1071
01:06:04,050 --> 01:06:05,190
Yeah, good point.

1072
01:06:05,220 --> 01:06:07,890
Good point. Well, I signed up
for lm pay, and I've got a like

1073
01:06:07,950 --> 01:06:12,060
a wall a paywall now, so the
easiest thing I could do is kind

1074
01:06:12,060 --> 01:06:16,050
of throw that on there and see,
well, yeah, I can definitely do

1075
01:06:16,050 --> 01:06:19,800
that. So I think I'll be doing
that soon. So hey, we'll get

1076
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,430
your Yeah, so someone can I
actually just tested it out, I

1077
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:27,090
was able to sign up for the
wallet on Ellen pay. shows me a

1078
01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:31,500
QR code. I just take my my
breeze wallet. Yeah, my blue

1079
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:35,100
wallet, whatever. It's pointed
at it, send us some SATs. And it

1080
01:06:35,100 --> 01:06:36,150
was just instantly there.

1081
01:06:36,690 --> 01:06:37,470
That's great. Yeah, but

1082
01:06:37,470 --> 01:06:38,730
what do you want a paywall?

1083
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:42,510
Oh, that's just what it's
called. I guess, I guess it

1084
01:06:42,510 --> 01:06:46,200
wouldn't actually be a paywall
that would block you from it

1085
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,250
actually will let it I guess it
does actually block the site. So

1086
01:06:50,250 --> 01:06:53,460
I will block the URL. Yeah,
yeah, I don't really want to do

1087
01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:57,300
that. I just want to, you know,
be able to use that. That same

1088
01:06:57,300 --> 01:06:59,640
QR code in some way and just
kind of throw it on the page and

1089
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,560
say, Hey, if you want to buy me
a coffee or something, oh,

1090
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,220
yeah, no, that's called a hit.
They have a different one for

1091
01:07:05,220 --> 01:07:06,000
that. Hold on.

1092
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:09,060
Okay. It's like a tip jar type
thing.

1093
01:07:09,090 --> 01:07:11,550
Yeah, they have a different name
for it. That's the one you want.

1094
01:07:11,550 --> 01:07:15,750
It's also from Ellen pay. I'll
tell you what it is. Okay. You

1095
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:16,650
have the

1096
01:07:22,260 --> 01:07:29,310
see the faucet? False. A false.
That's the other way around.

1097
01:07:29,310 --> 01:07:33,270
Right. I think that, but you can
do there was one you can do. I

1098
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:37,470
think it's ln URL. That's what
you want. Elena URL, and I think

1099
01:07:37,470 --> 01:07:40,830
your blue wallet may have that
already. You can create an ln

1100
01:07:40,830 --> 01:07:46,440
URL, which is just a standalone
almost second is what I call it

1101
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:53,790
is the homeless person's QR
code. I mean, it's a joke. Here

1102
01:07:53,790 --> 01:07:57,210
paywall wallet, okay, so we got
to figure this out. But there's

1103
01:07:57,210 --> 01:08:01,020
a way there's a way to do it in
ln pay, where you have either a

1104
01:08:01,020 --> 01:08:05,100
single URL, which brings up a QR
code or one QR code, and you

1105
01:08:05,100 --> 01:08:09,330
don't have to do this Nope. The
paywall is a separate

1106
01:08:09,330 --> 01:08:13,020
functionality, they also do.
Okay, so you just want it if you

1107
01:08:13,020 --> 01:08:14,010
just want a standard

1108
01:08:14,370 --> 01:08:18,030
thing that people can send money
to that's it. This is a perfect

1109
01:08:18,030 --> 01:08:20,850
example of something that I go
back and forth with, okay, so

1110
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:26,430
you've got, you've got a
service, and you have you got a

1111
01:08:26,430 --> 01:08:30,660
pay wall there, or some sort of,
like, you got a decision to

1112
01:08:30,660 --> 01:08:32,790
make, you've got you can say,
Okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna

1113
01:08:32,790 --> 01:08:36,480
pay wall this thing. And you
gotta, you've got to pay

1114
01:08:36,480 --> 01:08:39,390
something to get in, or I'm
going to just give a tip jar?

1115
01:08:39,690 --> 01:08:45,060
Well, you know, the understand,
understand the thinking of

1116
01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:48,270
having the tip jar mindset, it's
like, Okay, well, I don't, I

1117
01:08:48,270 --> 01:08:50,490
don't want to keep anybody out.
I don't want to put the burden,

1118
01:08:50,940 --> 01:08:53,730
the burden of entry too high and
that sort of thing. But then

1119
01:08:53,730 --> 01:08:56,460
there is something to be said
for just straight up pay walling

1120
01:08:56,460 --> 01:09:00,510
this thing and saying, Okay, if
you're gonna get in here and use

1121
01:09:00,510 --> 01:09:04,920
this, I really need me know, 20
SATs, or something like that.

1122
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,730
And there's, there's two reasons
for that. There's like, not, you

1123
01:09:08,730 --> 01:09:11,010
know, the obvious one is that
you, you know, you need some

1124
01:09:11,010 --> 01:09:14,610
revenue, the other but the other
less obvious one may be that it

1125
01:09:14,610 --> 01:09:18,990
also forces people into the
lightning ecosystem. And if we

1126
01:09:18,990 --> 01:09:23,610
think, you know, like, at least
from my mindset, if I think once

1127
01:09:23,610 --> 01:09:27,570
somebody has a lightning wallet,
now they're able to participate

1128
01:09:27,570 --> 01:09:32,190
in things like this much easier,
because it's really just QR code

1129
01:09:32,190 --> 01:09:36,450
scan, boom done, rather than
Okay, here's a paywall. Now you

1130
01:09:36,450 --> 01:09:38,460
get to go to PayPal, now you get
a good result blah, blah, blah,

1131
01:09:38,460 --> 01:09:41,130
blah. And it's like some five
minute process because like the,

1132
01:09:41,550 --> 01:09:44,190
the beauty of the Yeah, the
beauty of the lightning stuff is

1133
01:09:44,190 --> 01:09:46,500
that it is so damn fast.

1134
01:09:46,530 --> 01:09:48,660
Yeah, and just easy scan and
right on your phone, but you

1135
01:09:48,660 --> 01:09:51,870
need to be able to copy the URL
to whatever it is. Copy that.

1136
01:09:52,530 --> 01:09:55,620
Yeah. So I mean, like there's
this, there's this sort of dual

1137
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,780
uptake issue where you have
where you can Kinda almost want

1138
01:10:00,780 --> 01:10:05,130
to force people. If you say,
Okay, stop. I know you may not

1139
01:10:05,130 --> 01:10:09,720
know anything about lightning,
but go get us go get strike and

1140
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,240
come back in five seconds, it's
gonna take you just as long to

1141
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:14,970
download, strike and put up your
debit card than it is to get

1142
01:10:14,970 --> 01:10:17,550
through the PayPal process.
Anyway, it's just something I

1143
01:10:17,550 --> 01:10:18,090
was thinking about.

1144
01:10:18,420 --> 01:10:19,080
Also,

1145
01:10:20,580 --> 01:10:24,360
you know, as a, as a user of the
technology, that that's why you

1146
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,810
should get a part of the value
block. I mean, it's, yeah, it's

1147
01:10:27,810 --> 01:10:31,620
a couple bucks now. But it could
be 300 bucks in a couple months

1148
01:10:31,620 --> 01:10:32,100
from now.

1149
01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:33,990
Yeah, exactly.

1150
01:10:35,130 --> 01:10:38,070
That's them, that's the fairest
way to me is like, Hey, I'm

1151
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:42,360
using it, I'll throw you in the
block. Or the way would be even

1152
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:47,010
preferable. If someone uses your
app, you know, you'd get, you'd

1153
01:10:47,010 --> 01:10:49,500
get a different value or
whatever. I mean, because of

1154
01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:53,460
course, anyone can use it. And,
you know, ultimately, some kind

1155
01:10:53,460 --> 01:10:58,410
of ln stats, paid API is the way
to go for stuff like that. But

1156
01:10:58,470 --> 01:11:03,270
right, anyways, maybe shouldn't
digress too much, but just

1157
01:11:03,390 --> 01:11:04,590
saying that Wow, man.

1158
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,550
This is the episode where we try
to brainstorm every way possible

1159
01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:09,600
to get David paid.

1160
01:11:11,670 --> 01:11:15,060
So just send me an invoice, man,
send me send me a lightning

1161
01:11:15,060 --> 01:11:15,930
invoice I want to

1162
01:11:17,370 --> 01:11:18,600
consult I want to send them

1163
01:11:19,620 --> 01:11:21,900
right away. It sounds like I
should be paying you guys for

1164
01:11:21,900 --> 01:11:22,530
the for the

1165
01:11:24,210 --> 01:11:26,910
because you have a real hard
cost here. You know this, that

1166
01:11:26,910 --> 01:11:29,760
it's it's an existing cost and
you just have to be paid for

1167
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:33,750
that just doesn't go away for
me. I'm actually

1168
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:35,730
willing to pay a little bit
more. So I actually have a

1169
01:11:35,730 --> 01:11:37,710
feature on there. That's a
little bit hidden for anyone

1170
01:11:37,710 --> 01:11:40,410
using transcripts on their
podcasts. And I don't think many

1171
01:11:40,410 --> 01:11:44,040
people have taken advantage of
yet I've have it blocked at a

1172
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,340
certain amount. But so if you're
using the podcasting 2.0

1173
01:11:47,340 --> 01:11:51,480
transcripts, and use hyper
Capture Studio, when you load it

1174
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:53,970
up in there, you'll see a
special button to generate

1175
01:11:53,970 --> 01:11:58,740
podcast chapters using the GPT
three open API's

1176
01:12:00,390 --> 01:12:03,480
not Yeah, we'll be testing that.
Sure. Yeah.

1177
01:12:03,570 --> 01:12:06,150
So that's in there. Now, it
costs a little bit of money

1178
01:12:06,150 --> 01:12:09,720
every time. Cool. That's also
good. Depending on how large the

1179
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,140
podcast is. So I've got a gated
so I don't spend it doesn't just

1180
01:12:13,140 --> 01:12:15,480
constantly charge my credit card
or someone discovers it and

1181
01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:20,340
wants to do their entire podcast
backlog. But, but I am willing

1182
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:23,220
to pay a little bit more just to
get some more chapters out there

1183
01:12:23,220 --> 01:12:26,430
and get some more testing on
that if anyone wants to try that

1184
01:12:26,430 --> 01:12:28,680
out. That's that's something
that I've been super interested

1185
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,430
in recently and working on
machine learning and how you can

1186
01:12:32,580 --> 01:12:36,660
kind of generate more generate
additional content from a

1187
01:12:36,660 --> 01:12:38,940
podcast transcript. I think
there's something pretty

1188
01:12:38,940 --> 01:12:39,930
interesting there. So

1189
01:12:39,930 --> 01:12:42,540
I'm just looking I'm just in the
studio now because I hadn't seen

1190
01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:45,120
that. Where's this hidden
feature? You bastard?

1191
01:12:46,290 --> 01:12:50,220
So it should be at the bottom? I
sure hope now that you're

1192
01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:53,100
actually trying it that it's
that it's working but if you

1193
01:12:53,100 --> 01:12:54,600
have a transcript associated

1194
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:59,820
Yeah, generate chapters from
transcript what the hell bastard

1195
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:00,330
Okay,

1196
01:13:00,810 --> 01:13:03,240
so what do you do good drips got
a job?

1197
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:08,100
Well, no, I mean, what actually
is the opposite is you get a

1198
01:13:08,100 --> 01:13:10,980
whole bunch of chapters which is
much easier for him to remove or

1199
01:13:10,980 --> 01:13:13,110
just have to add artwork I think
it's

1200
01:13:13,380 --> 01:13:18,000
great. Oh, yeah. What if it was
if it was good enough it's a

1201
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,960
it's not quite up to snuff yet
nowhere near as good as Dred

1202
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:26,010
Scott adding content and chapter
markers. But I'm hoping

1203
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:28,830
eventually it will be so that's
that's something I've been kind

1204
01:13:28,830 --> 01:13:31,920
of working on recently in my
spare time. In addition to

1205
01:13:31,980 --> 01:13:34,290
maintaining hyper catcher and in
the studio.

1206
01:13:34,890 --> 01:13:38,310
I saw some of your a little
while back, he posted some of

1207
01:13:38,310 --> 01:13:40,800
the epic fails of GPT three

1208
01:13:40,980 --> 01:13:41,610
Yeah.

1209
01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:47,190
A when a dress to dress to do
stuff you get you get some

1210
01:13:47,190 --> 01:13:48,600
pretty raunchy stuff sometimes.

1211
01:13:50,820 --> 01:13:54,150
Yeah, exactly. So that's one
thing I've been kind of

1212
01:13:54,150 --> 01:13:56,910
experimenting with. There are
better models out there for I'm

1213
01:13:56,910 --> 01:13:57,480
gonna try it

1214
01:13:57,480 --> 01:14:00,450
on this on this episode, when
we're done. This episode is

1215
01:14:00,450 --> 01:14:04,890
going to be auto generated drab.
Heads up, buddy. Had no idea

1216
01:14:04,890 --> 01:14:05,790
what's coming down.

1217
01:14:09,690 --> 01:14:13,860
You know, I think I think this
is a I don't know, I think this

1218
01:14:13,860 --> 01:14:21,060
is good. I think this is good
for, you know, for just I'm

1219
01:14:21,060 --> 01:14:23,760
trying to figure out what I'm
what I'm trying to say here. I

1220
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,940
think it's just good that that
you're trying to throw

1221
01:14:26,940 --> 01:14:30,030
everything sort of at the wall
and see what sticks.

1222
01:14:30,060 --> 01:14:34,200
I love. I love very much, very
much doing that. Yes, I

1223
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,200
love that. I love that. That's
the sort of experimentation that

1224
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,680
I think has been lost with,
like, sort of the corporate

1225
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,610
Veep, you know, the VC, you
gotta you gotta check with your

1226
01:14:44,610 --> 01:14:48,450
stakeholders and make sure that
they're on board with. It's

1227
01:14:48,450 --> 01:14:55,200
like, you know, that sort of
garage level, throw everything

1228
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:59,190
at the wall and see what sticks
kitchen sink type thing. It's so

1229
01:14:59,190 --> 01:15:02,910
refreshing to see It's like,
nowadays we don't see things

1230
01:15:02,910 --> 01:15:05,820
features being released until
they've been gone over with a

1231
01:15:05,820 --> 01:15:09,930
fine tooth comb. And there's,
you know, and they're all slick,

1232
01:15:09,930 --> 01:15:12,960
and I'm just and then and then
half the time, it's a feature

1233
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,190
that none, do we really even
care about this feature? It's

1234
01:15:17,190 --> 01:15:20,760
like, I would much rather see
like 100 features come out, and

1235
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,150
then say, Oh, this one is
killer, you know, and the other

1236
01:15:24,150 --> 01:15:27,270
ones can just go away, or they
can languish or whatever, me. I

1237
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:29,220
don't know, I just did some
refreshing about that.

1238
01:15:30,060 --> 01:15:32,100
You know what? I'm sorry, go
ahead.

1239
01:15:33,180 --> 01:15:35,730
I was just gonna say there's
definitely downsides to that as

1240
01:15:35,730 --> 01:15:38,550
well. So you'll dehydrators
probably one of the buggy or

1241
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:41,400
podcast apps out there, because
I'm constantly trying to put new

1242
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:45,810
things out and I definitely need
to go around again. And for

1243
01:15:45,810 --> 01:15:47,340
another round of bug fixes soon.

1244
01:15:48,209 --> 01:15:52,709
I'll gladly help you with that.
I'll even dig up the iPhone for

1245
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:57,539
it. The crappy ass iPhone that
struggles like iPhone seven,

1246
01:15:57,539 --> 01:16:01,889
like Oh, hypertention, what are
you doing? It just to come back

1247
01:16:01,889 --> 01:16:03,899
to the money thing, just because
this is something that's forming

1248
01:16:03,899 --> 01:16:07,919
in my head, I just want to put
it out there. So this, this idea

1249
01:16:07,919 --> 01:16:13,709
of trying to determine your
price finding for creative works

1250
01:16:13,709 --> 01:16:17,369
for a podcast, you know, what is
it really worth? What should it

1251
01:16:17,369 --> 01:16:20,729
really cost? And when you think
about it, there's a lot that

1252
01:16:20,729 --> 01:16:23,639
goes into it. Yeah, besides the
effort of the of the person

1253
01:16:23,639 --> 01:16:26,819
involved, there's hosting,
there's different features,

1254
01:16:26,819 --> 01:16:31,949
there's in our case, there's
chapters, there's different

1255
01:16:31,949 --> 01:16:35,939
people who help along the way,
including Dred Scott, including

1256
01:16:36,659 --> 01:16:41,219
including hyper Capture Studio
and the API, you know, there's a

1257
01:16:41,219 --> 01:16:44,879
lot of different things that
flow up to that. And in a

1258
01:16:44,879 --> 01:16:49,529
typical business scenario, the
way the way it works is, you got

1259
01:16:49,529 --> 01:16:52,529
the core product, and everybody
who handles it along the way is

1260
01:16:52,559 --> 01:16:55,319
just putting their shit on top,
and then finally gets into the

1261
01:16:55,319 --> 01:17:00,929
store. And here you are, here's
your $10 item. And somehow the

1262
01:17:00,959 --> 01:17:06,119
the idea of value for value
where, you know, the price is

1263
01:17:06,119 --> 01:17:11,429
found by the person using it,
and it's fair, because, you

1264
01:17:11,429 --> 01:17:15,629
know, I looked up value would
literally means the value to the

1265
01:17:15,629 --> 01:17:19,559
holder of the asset. You know,
it's it's not the value is not

1266
01:17:19,709 --> 01:17:24,149
what, what someone put on it,
for me to purchase it. But we're

1267
01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:27,929
kind of, in a way, disassembling
the assembly line, you get to

1268
01:17:27,929 --> 01:17:30,509
pay for the pieces
independently. So you can swap

1269
01:17:30,509 --> 01:17:34,109
them out almost like decoupling
price from the value chain, each

1270
01:17:34,139 --> 01:17:38,879
entity in the chain gets its
piece directly from the end

1271
01:17:38,879 --> 01:17:42,719
consumer. And I'm not quite sure
why but this, you know, you hear

1272
01:17:42,719 --> 01:17:46,949
a lot of bullcrap about equity
and equality, somehow this is

1273
01:17:46,949 --> 01:17:51,059
it. And, and I look forward to
working with you specifically,

1274
01:17:51,059 --> 01:17:54,599
David, because you're providing
an extra piece in the chain,

1275
01:17:54,899 --> 01:17:59,549
which needs to get that value,
and how we either obfuscate that

1276
01:17:59,549 --> 01:18:03,269
from the end consumer and
disclose it. Or we say, here's

1277
01:18:03,269 --> 01:18:05,639
what it is. And this is why
you're doing it. I'm not quite

1278
01:18:05,639 --> 01:18:12,389
sure. But I think we're in in a
place where people are very

1279
01:18:12,389 --> 01:18:16,949
willing to do this. They really
enjoy. I mean, this is part of

1280
01:18:16,949 --> 01:18:21,299
crowdfunding. This is part of
GoFundMe. It's, it's, it's, it

1281
01:18:21,299 --> 01:18:27,389
feels inherently good. Yep. I
mean, I was listening to Tales

1282
01:18:27,389 --> 01:18:30,509
from the Crypt was a great
episode. I was playing it from

1283
01:18:30,509 --> 01:18:34,499
Spinks chat 100 SATs a minute,
that's the value slider pegged

1284
01:18:34,499 --> 01:18:38,639
to the right. And and I'm just
shouting like, out, um, you

1285
01:18:38,639 --> 01:18:40,199
know, I'm listening to this for
an hour and a half, it was like

1286
01:18:40,199 --> 01:18:42,929
six bucks. I'm like, Fuck, that
was so worth it and felt good

1287
01:18:42,929 --> 01:18:43,799
the whole time.

1288
01:18:45,540 --> 01:18:48,870
Yeah, I've got the same feeling
because at the sea, and that

1289
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:52,440
that's interesting that you, you
take some people take the

1290
01:18:52,980 --> 01:18:56,010
different approaches, because
like, I set my value slider

1291
01:18:56,010 --> 01:18:59,010
lower, and then I just boost the
crap out of stuff. When I like

1292
01:18:59,010 --> 01:19:02,220
it. It's almost the opposite is
in that makes me feel better,

1293
01:19:02,220 --> 01:19:04,860
because I like the adrenaline,
you know, dopamine hit of the

1294
01:19:04,860 --> 01:19:09,570
boost. So like, I'm like, okay,
so I take this opposite

1295
01:19:09,570 --> 01:19:12,870
approach, this whole subjective,
the whole idea of subjective

1296
01:19:12,870 --> 01:19:18,300
value is almost exe. It's, it's
more than just the value that's

1297
01:19:18,300 --> 01:19:21,120
subjective. It's the it's the
subjectivity of how I want to

1298
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:22,950
deliver the value to you. Yeah.

1299
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:27,990
Yes, yes. Yes. Exactly.

1300
01:19:29,250 --> 01:19:32,010
That that whole it's just it's
sort of mind blowing that we've

1301
01:19:32,010 --> 01:19:36,060
just we've gotten to this point
now where where this stuff is

1302
01:19:36,060 --> 01:19:40,290
flexible enough to be able to do
these things. Script my money.

1303
01:19:42,630 --> 01:19:45,870
Yeah, programmable money. It
kind of it's a mind blower.

1304
01:19:47,790 --> 01:19:51,270
Yeah, totally agree and super
excited that you guys have you

1305
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:54,120
know, pushed the envelope here
and made all this happen. super

1306
01:19:54,150 --> 01:19:56,820
thankful to you guys for for
doing this as well. So

1307
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,850
well. No thanks. No thanks,
needed man. You are bringing

1308
01:19:59,850 --> 01:20:03,120
your Time and your talent and
Dave, who can we thank for

1309
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,720
bringing some treasure for this
week's episode of podcasting?

1310
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,380
2.0.

1311
01:20:07,410 --> 01:20:09,090
Yeah, you almost caught me off
guard, I

1312
01:20:09,090 --> 01:20:12,810
had to reach for the paper, you
have your crumble notes. There

1313
01:20:12,810 --> 01:20:13,200
you go.

1314
01:20:13,290 --> 01:20:14,160
We're good to go.

1315
01:20:17,279 --> 01:20:20,249
Let me explain before we rush
into it for people who are new

1316
01:20:20,729 --> 01:20:24,719
value for value is the system.
This whole project podcasting

1317
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:29,519
2.0 podcast, index.org, podcast,
social, podcast, index dot

1318
01:20:29,519 --> 01:20:35,579
social. All of that is in this
podcast all a part of the

1319
01:20:35,579 --> 01:20:39,149
project is the value we're
delivering. It's for a wide

1320
01:20:39,149 --> 01:20:42,179
variety of people. If there's
anything you get out of it, for

1321
01:20:42,179 --> 01:20:45,089
whatever reason, just put that
into a number, send it back to

1322
01:20:45,089 --> 01:20:48,029
us. And the way you do that is
go to podcast index.org, scroll

1323
01:20:48,029 --> 01:20:50,939
down to the bottom, Big Red
Donate button for the PayPal,

1324
01:20:50,939 --> 01:20:54,629
there's also a lightning invoice
that you can scan with your with

1325
01:20:54,629 --> 01:20:59,039
any of your lightning wallets.
And you can even if you want set

1326
01:20:59,039 --> 01:21:03,179
a subscription for a weekly
amount of satoshis. Pretty cool.

1327
01:21:03,209 --> 01:21:08,429
That is all I think that's an ln
URL system or something. And,

1328
01:21:08,579 --> 01:21:12,269
and that's it. That's it. That's
the exchange is pure value for

1329
01:21:12,269 --> 01:21:14,519
value. Whatever you get out of
it, you put into it. And we

1330
01:21:14,519 --> 01:21:16,589
appreciate any amount because it
means a lot to you.

1331
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:23,730
Jeremy cabanel he appreciates
the R value. He signed up for a

1332
01:21:23,730 --> 01:21:25,530
subscription for $10 a month.

1333
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:26,550
Thank you. Thank you.

1334
01:21:26,910 --> 01:21:30,030
That's that's basically a node
for us. Right there. Thank you.

1335
01:21:30,690 --> 01:21:36,480
Yeah. And I'm spinning up a new
search node for for searching

1336
01:21:36,480 --> 01:21:40,230
for just lightning enabled
podcasts. Yeah, we'll pay for

1337
01:21:40,230 --> 01:21:44,310
it. Yes. I think we could
probably say that. We've got

1338
01:21:44,370 --> 01:21:47,040
another app coming pretty soon.
It's gonna give it a shot.

1339
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:50,880
Yeah, I think so. And we'll
that'll Thank you, Jeremy. That

1340
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,920
just covered our cost on that.
And we've got a single donation

1341
01:21:55,980 --> 01:22:04,290
of $5. From what is this last
name? Merrick. l apostrophe, a

1342
01:22:04,290 --> 01:22:06,000
ch. And you say that last name,

1343
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,640
lock, maybe blah, blah.

1344
01:22:09,450 --> 01:22:14,130
Yeah. Okay. Merrick gave us five
bucks. Thank you. Way to go keep

1345
01:22:14,130 --> 01:22:14,910
it open source.

1346
01:22:15,390 --> 01:22:19,050
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the only
way to go. Open Source open

1347
01:22:19,050 --> 01:22:25,290
mind. And that is it. Okay.
Happy. Sad puppy time.

1348
01:22:27,990 --> 01:22:31,110
We're giving we're giving out
all this advice to a dad. Here's

1349
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:32,160
how you need to make money and

1350
01:22:33,930 --> 01:22:35,130
what do we have on the last
show?

1351
01:22:36,930 --> 01:22:37,860
No, it's just me.

1352
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,830
There you go. No guests. No
love.

1353
01:22:41,310 --> 01:22:42,450
Yeah. Hey, David.

1354
01:22:42,450 --> 01:22:45,840
Glad you could be here, buddy.
We know you're gonna bring

1355
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:47,910
you're gonna rake in the big
bucks for the project.

1356
01:22:48,330 --> 01:22:51,720
Yeah, yeah. David, you have such
a track record of bringing in

1357
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:52,530
the dough. Yeah,

1358
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,650
yeah, exactly. I don't know if
I'm the one to be doing that.

1359
01:22:56,010 --> 01:22:57,480
This year. Next week. Can

1360
01:22:57,480 --> 01:22:59,910
you have a day job, David? Oh,
yeah.

1361
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,020
Yeah, this is, uh, taking a
little break for this. And I

1362
01:23:04,020 --> 01:23:07,560
just came back. So I had a I had
a baby a couple of months ago,

1363
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:08,070
Max. That's

1364
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:10,200
right. Congratulations. How's
that going? Thank

1365
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:17,310
you. Oh, that's great. Yeah,
it's super exciting. Boy, yeah,

1366
01:23:17,370 --> 01:23:19,980
yeah. So I'm just kind of
settling back into work. I've

1367
01:23:19,980 --> 01:23:21,480
been back for weeks now.

1368
01:23:21,870 --> 01:23:26,760
I'm sorry. Hey, Dave. thinks you
settling back into the work?

1369
01:23:27,090 --> 01:23:34,230
Yeah. No, brother. No, never as
best thing you'll do in your

1370
01:23:34,230 --> 01:23:35,400
life, but it never ends.

1371
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:39,270
You're right. You have a stall.
You have a small seat. You have

1372
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:44,670
a small window of sanity between
about seven or eight years old.

1373
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:54,270
And about 14. Everything on both
sides of that is just chaos. You

1374
01:23:54,270 --> 01:23:56,970
got Yeah, you got a few more
years. And then and then you'll

1375
01:23:56,970 --> 01:23:59,190
be hosting and sailing for a few
years. And then it's back to

1376
01:23:59,190 --> 01:24:01,290
complete chaos again, and you'll
be broke?

1377
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,440
Oh, yeah. Oh, no, this is total
total brokenness. You know, just

1378
01:24:04,470 --> 01:24:06,690
why don't you just get a
lightning node for your kid

1379
01:24:06,690 --> 01:24:09,210
right away. We'll set it up.
We'll put your kid in the value

1380
01:24:09,210 --> 01:24:11,550
block cuz you might as well get
it out of the way up front.

1381
01:24:12,570 --> 01:24:15,420
Oh, yeah. Definitely putting
aside some Bitcoin from

1382
01:24:17,670 --> 01:24:18,570
the diaper node.

1383
01:24:20,970 --> 01:24:24,990
I love that. Something about
diaper node.com I don't know

1384
01:24:24,990 --> 01:24:25,890
why, but I like it.

1385
01:24:28,290 --> 01:24:32,220
No, that's Congrats, man. That's
best. Yeah. Like Adam says best

1386
01:24:32,220 --> 01:24:35,370
thing you'll ever do me you're
gonna. You know you. I'm sure

1387
01:24:35,370 --> 01:24:37,020
you've had a lot of sleepless
nights so far.

1388
01:24:37,620 --> 01:24:41,100
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's
been worth it though. You know,

1389
01:24:41,580 --> 01:24:43,740
open the reason other podcasts
are here. Did you?

1390
01:24:43,890 --> 01:24:46,890
Did you get like a paternity
leave or anything like that?

1391
01:24:47,220 --> 01:24:50,370
Yeah. So I was off for about a
month for that. Yeah.

1392
01:24:50,430 --> 01:24:52,740
Okay, good, man. That's
something I wish I could have

1393
01:24:52,740 --> 01:24:57,240
done with with my kids. Here.
Yeah. Yeah, cuz Yeah, my wife. I

1394
01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,610
mean, it was just such a hard
thing on my wife and then um,

1395
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,580
I'm working all day. And then I
tried to stay up at night and

1396
01:25:02,580 --> 01:25:05,040
pick the kids, or get the kids
up and feed them and all that.

1397
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:05,190
Did

1398
01:25:05,190 --> 01:25:07,560
you have this? Where because
whenever Christina would cry in

1399
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,650
the middle of night, it was my
job at no problem. But I'd get

1400
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:14,340
up. I put on my house coat, you
know, if I had to really pee a

1401
01:25:14,340 --> 01:25:17,040
pee real quick, and then, you
know, go figure out what's wrong

1402
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:20,580
with the kid. My wife hated
that. You're supposed to jump up

1403
01:25:20,580 --> 01:25:23,070
and go race right away and see
what's going on.

1404
01:25:23,610 --> 01:25:28,350
Yeah, no, I'm not I'm not of
that. No, I was the more like,

1405
01:25:28,380 --> 01:25:29,730
get a cup of coffee. First guy.

1406
01:25:29,730 --> 01:25:35,310
Yeah. Wow, that's really
extreme. So David, what else?

1407
01:25:36,150 --> 01:25:38,400
What are your dreams, man? What
do you want to be when you grow

1408
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:43,980
up? No. Oh, podcast developer.
All right. Yeah, I'm living the

1409
01:25:43,980 --> 01:25:48,660
dream already. That's what I'm
hoping for. So yeah, you know,

1410
01:25:48,660 --> 01:25:51,930
of course, I'd love what I do
right now being a mobile

1411
01:25:51,930 --> 01:25:55,830
developer working a little bit
on the back end. But yeah, long

1412
01:25:55,830 --> 01:25:58,230
term would love to be able to
work on this full time. So we'll

1413
01:25:58,230 --> 01:25:59,910
see where we are. Yes, swift
developer.

1414
01:26:00,030 --> 01:26:00,780
Is that your language?

1415
01:26:00,810 --> 01:26:03,690
Yeah, yeah, Swift. Just
recently, we've been doing a lot

1416
01:26:03,690 --> 01:26:06,990
more PHP I've kind of started
taking over doing some other

1417
01:26:06,990 --> 01:26:09,360
work on the back end as well for
our API

1418
01:26:09,690 --> 01:26:11,460
knows your full stack guy, then.

1419
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:14,190
I'm getting there. I wouldn't
call myself that yet. Definitely

1420
01:26:14,190 --> 01:26:18,480
not on LinkedIn. Swift and
Objective C has been my, my

1421
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:20,790
wheelhouse for a long time. So I
love it.

1422
01:26:20,820 --> 01:26:23,280
I love that that whole thing.
We're looking for a full stack

1423
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,740
developer, that means we want
somebody that will do it all and

1424
01:26:25,740 --> 01:26:26,670
that we don't have to pay very
much.

1425
01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:32,040
That's totally true. Yeah, it
truly is. What

1426
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,410
bullcrap is that I'm sorry, you
guys have to go through that

1427
01:26:34,410 --> 01:26:40,020
shit. That's that's really good.
How about hyper catcher? What

1428
01:26:40,020 --> 01:26:43,350
did you have a roadmap? Or are
you just plotting ahead picking

1429
01:26:43,350 --> 01:26:46,020
up where where it goes? I mean,
is there anything that we can do

1430
01:26:46,020 --> 01:26:47,820
for you to make life easier?

1431
01:26:48,690 --> 01:26:52,830
Yeah. So no, I mean, at this
point, there's nothing new I

1432
01:26:52,830 --> 01:26:56,550
just knew I would need it's just
really just picking up what you

1433
01:26:56,550 --> 01:27:00,420
guys have already created and
making sure that I'm supporting

1434
01:27:00,420 --> 01:27:04,140
all the all the tags. So right
now, I'm using the search. I'm

1435
01:27:04,140 --> 01:27:08,910
using the funding tag,
obviously, chapters. I really

1436
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:14,040
want to get involved with people
and the clips.

1437
01:27:15,390 --> 01:27:20,520
Yeah, another sound bites sound
bites another one for for app

1438
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,370
usage, man, I would be making
sound bites out the ass if I

1439
01:27:23,370 --> 01:27:24,510
could do that in the app.

1440
01:27:24,990 --> 01:27:28,080
Yep. Yeah. So I really want you
to be able to go to an episode

1441
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:30,600
and then be able to listen to
sound bites. And so that's

1442
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:33,450
that's definitely something
that's coming. I'm also working

1443
01:27:33,450 --> 01:27:36,660
on something that's kind of
newsletter related. It's no

1444
01:27:36,660 --> 01:27:40,710
Tater co then it's going to be
coming out pretty soon. I hope

1445
01:27:40,710 --> 01:27:44,400
it's kind of a someone hit me up
on Twitter about working on

1446
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:47,550
something that was kind of had
some similarities to what I've

1447
01:27:47,550 --> 01:27:49,530
already been doing with
chapters. I have some cool

1448
01:27:49,530 --> 01:27:53,850
ideas. So I happen to have
something out there soon. For

1449
01:27:53,850 --> 01:27:54,660
people to check out. Oh,

1450
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:56,460
no, no. tater.co

1451
01:27:57,119 --> 01:28:01,799
no Tater co Yeah. Like taking
notes on a on a podcast sort of

1452
01:28:01,799 --> 01:28:02,129
thing.

1453
01:28:03,570 --> 01:28:09,390
Okay, okay. So what are you
like, what's your what's your

1454
01:28:09,420 --> 01:28:12,720
sort of draw to newsletters? I
mean, that that's kind of a big

1455
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:13,560
thing for Yeah,

1456
01:28:13,650 --> 01:28:19,170
yeah, it is. I think just seeing
the way that when I saw during

1457
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:23,640
Glenn Greenwald, go over to
substack. And Matt Taibbi, all

1458
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:27,210
these you know, it's email, I've
heard people talk about kind of

1459
01:28:27,210 --> 01:28:30,510
email being kind of similar to
podcasts, and that you can't

1460
01:28:30,510 --> 01:28:34,770
really, you know, stop emails,
it's a direct channel. It's kind

1461
01:28:34,770 --> 01:28:38,790
of another, you know, direct
channel to the audience. I see

1462
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:44,580
that as being kind of censorship
proof in a way. And so that's,

1463
01:28:44,610 --> 01:28:47,550
and I see some kind of
correlation between podcasts and

1464
01:28:47,550 --> 01:28:50,310
newsletters, like there's all
these newsletters. The reason I

1465
01:28:50,310 --> 01:28:52,890
built the new feature on the
hybrid catcher, you can actually

1466
01:28:52,890 --> 01:28:55,830
listen to newsletters, like a
podcast, because that's

1467
01:28:55,830 --> 01:28:58,200
something I've been wanting to
do for a while. There's all

1468
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:01,980
these newsletters out here that
I that I want to listen to, and

1469
01:29:02,010 --> 01:29:05,670
you know, and I don't
necessarily have time to sit

1470
01:29:05,670 --> 01:29:09,540
down and read it. So I wanted to
build out a feature where you

1471
01:29:09,540 --> 01:29:12,750
could listen to a newsletter
like a podcast, so that's

1472
01:29:12,780 --> 01:29:14,160
something I recently added.

1473
01:29:14,430 --> 01:29:17,730
Oh, so here's what here's where
your whole transcript of Elon

1474
01:29:17,730 --> 01:29:23,100
Musk shows up. Yep, yep. Cool.
So you're gonna do it both ways.

1475
01:29:23,100 --> 01:29:26,640
It's very interesting. That the
only thing I would say about

1476
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:30,480
that is sadly email and we have
a lot of experience with the no

1477
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:34,770
agenda newsletter. Email is
still some booboo man because

1478
01:29:34,770 --> 01:29:37,980
there's there's a lot of
blacklisting gray listing

1479
01:29:37,980 --> 01:29:42,780
issues. There's just so many
fucking things. It's it's, it's

1480
01:29:42,810 --> 01:29:47,310
right it's Yeah, I mean, look at
MailChimp. You know, MailChimp,

1481
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:52,200
D platform people now I know
that's not the same. Well,

1482
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,930
anyway, I could I could give you
a million ideas for this. I like

1483
01:29:54,930 --> 01:29:58,470
it. This is great. Cool, very
interesting. I put that in the

1484
01:29:58,470 --> 01:30:03,990
show notes. So hyper catcher
Calm notato ko anything else

1485
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:06,780
that we should put in the
shownotes for you? Well, there's

1486
01:30:06,780 --> 01:30:09,300
studio dot hyper catcher calm
but I don't

1487
01:30:09,300 --> 01:30:10,020
get greenlit now

1488
01:30:14,309 --> 01:30:14,819
I'll put it in

1489
01:30:17,850 --> 01:30:21,270
I'll call it hyper Capture
Studio, hyper Capture Studio,

1490
01:30:21,870 --> 01:30:24,810
which is just a killer name by
the way it is a great name hyper

1491
01:30:24,810 --> 01:30:28,350
Capture Studio. I mean, that's
just that's just rockin Yeah.

1492
01:30:29,550 --> 01:30:32,100
I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah,
hyper capture is just kind of

1493
01:30:32,130 --> 01:30:36,930
calls back to when I was a kid
to do a lot of work with hyper

1494
01:30:37,860 --> 01:30:38,610
hyper stack.

1495
01:30:38,910 --> 01:30:42,030
Oh, goodness hyper stack. Oh,
that was my first foray into

1496
01:30:42,030 --> 01:30:45,930
Pro. Well besides beta. Yeah,
it's a never you could never get

1497
01:30:45,930 --> 01:30:50,910
a almost like Apple script. You
know, there's no manual. Where

1498
01:30:50,910 --> 01:30:53,310
can I find out how to actually
work this stuff? It's very, I

1499
01:30:53,310 --> 01:30:54,000
found Yeah.

1500
01:30:54,749 --> 01:30:56,789
Hyper stack. That's the Mac
stuff, right?

1501
01:30:56,940 --> 01:30:58,830
Yeah. Yeah. But from early

1502
01:30:59,550 --> 01:31:02,310
hypercard. Yeah, from early,
early, early days, and they get

1503
01:31:02,310 --> 01:31:03,840
super super card.

1504
01:31:04,470 --> 01:31:06,750
That's what I meant. I said
hyper stack. And then hypercard.

1505
01:31:06,780 --> 01:31:08,310
Yes, yeah.

1506
01:31:09,150 --> 01:31:13,050
So I remember a day. I remember
you emailed me, David. I mean,

1507
01:31:13,050 --> 01:31:17,250
like, pretty soon after we
started the index API. And you

1508
01:31:17,250 --> 01:31:22,230
said, Hey, I'm about to release
from the my hyper catcher app

1509
01:31:22,230 --> 01:31:26,040
out of beta or something like
that. And you said, is it? Is it

1510
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:29,910
okay for me? Like, can you
handle this in production? And I

1511
01:31:29,910 --> 01:31:32,310
don't remember what I said it
was I was like, I don't know.

1512
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:39,030
Maybe? We're about to figure it
out. You know, I was just funny.

1513
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:41,250
You asked that question. I had
to think about it for like, I

1514
01:31:41,250 --> 01:31:44,490
don't know, can we? Maybe I have
no idea? Yeah.

1515
01:31:46,650 --> 01:31:48,870
I didn't have that many users at
the time. But I was just so

1516
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:51,720
surprised, because I was used to
paying like, $100 a month for

1517
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:55,650
the other, you know, podcast API
that I was using. I just could

1518
01:31:55,650 --> 01:31:58,080
always have you guys listen on
this for free listen notes.

1519
01:31:58,410 --> 01:31:59,820
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1520
01:31:59,850 --> 01:32:02,970
Tell me. Tell me about listen
notes is it wasn't any good.

1521
01:32:02,970 --> 01:32:07,470
They'd have a rich feature set.
I mean, what? Yeah, obviously,

1522
01:32:07,470 --> 01:32:12,600
we encourage all all competition
or parallel projects.

1523
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:16,230
Yeah, it you know, it started
out being pretty reasonable. I

1524
01:32:16,230 --> 01:32:18,720
think when I started with it, it
was only like $15 a month or

1525
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:22,050
something for the, for the basic
plan. And it just ratcheted up

1526
01:32:22,050 --> 01:32:25,140
after that, to the point where
it just wasn't feasible for me

1527
01:32:25,140 --> 01:32:30,720
to pay for. But their their
features were, were not bad. So

1528
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,440
they had, but it's basically
nothing that podcasts index

1529
01:32:34,440 --> 01:32:37,140
doesn't have. So I think the
biggest thing they had that was

1530
01:32:37,170 --> 01:32:42,600
was nice at the time was a tags,
you know, so you can see what

1531
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:46,050
type of podcasts it is, and you
could search based on the tag.

1532
01:32:46,860 --> 01:32:50,460
And then they, they would also
have kind of the top, they had a

1533
01:32:50,460 --> 01:32:53,010
couple API's for different
categories. So if you want to

1534
01:32:53,010 --> 01:32:57,840
find the top news podcasts and
the top comedy podcasts, there

1535
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:00,240
was kind of simple API's that
you could just call into that.

1536
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:03,570
And that's what my original kind
of front page was a bunch of

1537
01:33:03,570 --> 01:33:07,350
different calls to them to fetch
the latest different categories.

1538
01:33:07,380 --> 01:33:10,110
That's interesting that you
think I just, I'm realizing we

1539
01:33:10,110 --> 01:33:13,410
don't have we don't have that.
Now, we could do that. And that

1540
01:33:13,410 --> 01:33:16,170
would be I don't, I've never
even thought of it. Yeah, we

1541
01:33:16,170 --> 01:33:18,390
need we need that. Because we
have all the category info in

1542
01:33:18,390 --> 01:33:21,300
there, which needs to just need
to expose it. How did it Yeah,

1543
01:33:21,330 --> 01:33:21,870
I'll work on that.

1544
01:33:22,260 --> 01:33:25,620
too. Those. Do they support the
namespace?

1545
01:33:27,510 --> 01:33:28,440
I don't think so.

1546
01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:31,950
I have no idea. No idea. They
should.

1547
01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:35,280
Yeah. You know what, maybe if we
can just coerce and

1548
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:37,830
now it's time for some hot.

1549
01:33:38,700 --> 01:33:40,980
Hello, notes. Join us.

1550
01:33:42,870 --> 01:33:44,880
then that'll work. That'll work.
Don't

1551
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,740
be Don't be banging on the door
at midnight.

1552
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,740
banging. afraid we're gonna get
through a podcast.

1553
01:33:49,830 --> 01:33:53,310
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no,

1554
01:33:53,550 --> 01:33:54,750
sir. Cool. No, no,

1555
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:55,380
I couldn't happen.

1556
01:33:56,850 --> 01:34:02,130
Yeah. All right. That's Ella. I
love it. I love hyper catcher.

1557
01:34:02,220 --> 01:34:07,290
Big fan. Anyway, just make ways
we can give you more money as

1558
01:34:07,290 --> 01:34:09,570
well. Now let's index request.

1559
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:13,830
All right. Wow. You know, we
pretty much all should be saying

1560
01:34:13,830 --> 01:34:14,610
the same thing.

1561
01:34:14,670 --> 01:34:16,950
I love you. And I'm so glad
we're doing this together.

1562
01:34:17,220 --> 01:34:20,310
I love you. And I'm so glad that
we're doing this together.

1563
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,490
David Norman. You guys yeah.
David Norman. I love you. I'm so

1564
01:34:23,490 --> 01:34:26,550
glad we're doing the stick at
Dave. Dave. I love you. I'm so

1565
01:34:26,550 --> 01:34:27,690
glad we're doing this together.

1566
01:34:27,870 --> 01:34:29,370
Happy Valentine's Day. Oh, my

1567
01:34:29,370 --> 01:34:30,000
goodness.

1568
01:34:33,330 --> 01:34:36,240
For podcasting 2.0 it's getting
steamy in here. We'll be back

1569
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:37,290
next week with another

1570
01:34:38,670 --> 01:34:40,410
podcasting 2.0

1571
01:34:56,010 --> 01:35:01,920
You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 Broadcast for

1572
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:03,330
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