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Podcasting 2.0 for October 10th, 2025, episode

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237, FFPMeg.

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Hey everybody, it's good to be back.

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Are you kidding me now?

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Two weeks and so much has already happened.

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Welcome to Podcasting 2.0, the official board

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meeting of all things podcasting.

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If it's going on in podcasting, it's talked

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about here.

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We are in fact the only boardroom that

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gets none of the $3 billion in projected

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advertising.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who's every man's philosopher and an agent

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of change.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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I guess it's because I don't have FFMpeg

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installed.

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You need FFMpeg.

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Everybody in the world needs FFMpeg.

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Well, I just, I mean, I figured it

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would just be there.

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I mean, I couldn't build a robot out

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of FFMpeg.

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FFMpeg, sudo apt-get.

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Install.

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Install FFMpeg.

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Unable to locate package FFMpeg.

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Well, that's a problem.

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You forgot to do a sudo apt update.

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How could you not?

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Like, how could this, this has to be

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right.

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I actually had to build FFMpeg from source

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to get the RTMP module.

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Now, did you have to do this?

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Oh, yes.

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Or did Grok just tell you you had

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to do it?

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No.

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No.

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After I found out that it did not

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include the RTMP module, I went to looking,

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but it's always interesting then, because, you know,

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it might install it in a different directory

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than you expect it.

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And if you don't explicitly tell Grok what's

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going on, you can go down a rabbit

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hole for an hour or two.

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Sudo apt-get install FFMpeg does not, does

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not work.

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Why is this?

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I don't understand.

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Where is it?

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Where is it?

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It says no, unable to locate package FFMpeg.

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What is my problem?

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You got no package, man.

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Your package is no good.

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I've heard that, but now I know for

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sure.

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You got no package.

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It's weak.

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Let's see, cat.

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Okay, cat etc message.

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Oh, Eric.

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Ericpp is trying to be helpful.

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Nix-shell.

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Okay, yeah.

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Now, we're not all running on Nix.

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Oh, Nix, oh, yeah.

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No, that's not.

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I'm on like Ubuntu something.

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I don't even remember what version.

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Ericpp, you may not have a spouse or

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a girlfriend.

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If you're on Nix OS, then I don't

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think you can have a relationship with anything

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else.

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Oh, I'm on Ubuntu 20.

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I may be off.

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Oh, no.

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I may be off long-term support and

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I can't install packages.

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Is that really what this is?

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I guess so.

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If it is, then I'm gonna be really

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annoyed.

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Did you kill your stream?

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Well, it killed itself.

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Oh.

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It gave me an encoder error and just

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killed it and just died.

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Oh, no, that's no good.

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That's no good.

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Hello, everybody.

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Welcome to Podcasting 2.0, where we take

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you to the command line, every single show,

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just to let you know that we have

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no idea what's going on in the world.

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I certainly have no idea what's going on

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right now.

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Is it Snap?

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Am I gonna have to resort to Snap?

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Let's bring in the memory leak that is

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known as Snap.

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I'll tell you what, while you're doing that,

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why don't we bring in our special guest

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for today?

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Because he knows a lot more than just

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what he's here to talk about, which is,

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of course, shameless self-promotion of a product.

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But that's what most people should be doing

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here.

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Please welcome the owner, creator, the proprietor of

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PodChapters and many more, Daniel J.

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Lewis.

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Hey, guys.

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Hey, Dave, try and stick some JSON in

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it.

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Ah, there it is, there it is, there

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it is.

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Sue, your comments are not helpful, Daniel.

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Pseudo apt, this is horrible.

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This is horrible.

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Pseudo apt again.

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I'm just gonna try, wait, unzip.

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Let's try to, okay, that works.

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So it's not a package problem.

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Yeah, that's what she said.

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The package is fully operational.

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Your package is fully operational and loaded.

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Yes, it's ready to fire.

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But this is not, but the, is it

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caught?

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Oh, I see what my problem is.

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I'm such an idiot.

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Okay, now we all want to know.

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Now we all want to know.

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Misspelled?

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I misspelled FFPEG.

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Ah!

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I typed FFPEG.

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Oh, there you go.

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FFPEG, okay, for anybody who's won, FFPEG, FFPEG.

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For anybody who is curious, FFPEG is not

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a real package.

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But it's a show title for sure.

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FFPEG.

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FFPEG, oh brother.

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That sounds like a concealed carry kind of

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thing.

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It's almost lewd, but in a way that

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I can't fully understand.

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Well, snap, I had to use snap though,

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which is also not good.

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So what we're doing here is, for those

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who are wondering, for the podcaster, godcaster, I'm

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sorry, we have, I don't know how many

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hundred stations we have.

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And we create these channel streams.

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So you throw a bunch of podcasts in

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a player and then it plays the most

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recent episode of whatever's most recent and does

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that in a loop with station IDs in

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between.

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And we've enabled a way to take over

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that stream and go live.

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IceCast was pretty simple.

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Most churches use RTMP.

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So they're streaming video to exciting platforms like

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YouTube and Facebook.

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So exciting.

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And since we refuse to be streaming video,

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we have a little RTMP to IceCast bridge

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and it actually works.

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Except for the metadata.

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Metadata is turning out to be a bit

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of a problem, not because of the RTMP

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to IceCast or how we are doing metadata.

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Okay, it seems to be working.

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Yeah, hold on, I can see it rolling.

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You do see it rolling?

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Well, I see you're being probed.

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Yes, your stream is active.

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Player eight, player eight, player eight enters the

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game.

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Scanning.

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Okay, it has not crashed on me on

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the output yet.

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Is it actually making a file?

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But this is all useless anyway, because I

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didn't start at the right time.

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So it's going to be way off again.

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Oh, that'll be fun.

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Let me see, I can check and see

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if we're live here.

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It freaks out all the apps.

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Is it actually making a file?

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This is crazy.

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There you go, you're live, okay, you're live,

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awesome.

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It works.

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Well, okay, it's creating .ts files.

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See what I'm trying to do is, like

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a good computer guy, I changed the settings

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on OBS right before the show.

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Oh, of course, yeah.

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Like I connected to the stream, I heard

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Daniel's voice and I hit settings.

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And I went in there and just started

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twiddling with stuff, because what I want to

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do is I want to record directly to

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HLS instead of having to re-encode afterwards.

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That way I can just go, shoot it

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right up to Linode.

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We had the funniest episode with VoidZero.

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On Wednesday, he sends me a note, which

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I will read verbatim just because it's funny.

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No agenda?

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Yeah, for no agenda.

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He says, fixes changes and updates today.

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Any report of the stream being offline?

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I'm aware of it, migrating a bunch of

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stuff.

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People won't notice.

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Yeah, everything broke.

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The stream broke, the website didn't update.

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Wow.

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But it's like, you know what's going to

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happen.

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It's like, just don't say no one will

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notice because there's always something you notice.

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It always breaks.

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It's hilarious.

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I thought Martin knew about no change Thursdays

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and Sundays.

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Well, he did it on Wednesdays, to be

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fair.

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That was the good part, but I'm like,

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no, just don't do it.

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Don't do it, man, and he did it.

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Do you make changes?

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There are some people in the universe who

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have the ability to make Mercury go in

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retrograde.

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Precisely.

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Daniel, do you change critical parts of the

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infrastructure of PyChapters like on Friday night?

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No way.

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No better than that.

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No, that's not a good idea.

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I, however, still have a tendency to do

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that.

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Oh, you just pushed to production, that's you.

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Oh, I go, yeah, I'm hacking on production.

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Staging is for pussies, absolutely.

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That's what it is.

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You're a real man.

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Well, I had the wonderful experience of a

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dev server that got, I logged into the

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dev server.

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I'm like, why is it, why am I,

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is everything in 100 CPU cycles?

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What is, hmm, so.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, your Bitcoin miner expedition.

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So it happened to three machines before I

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could batten down the hatches, and then somehow

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one of the machines I thought I had

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closed up, I guess that somebody left something

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in there, and it may not have been

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a Bitcoin miner because I got a Linode

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strike.

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Linode, so you get like, I guess, Akamai

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complained that my server was abusive.

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I'm like, bad server, bad server.

279
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,260
Oh, your server was trying to hack other

280
00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:38,580
servers.

281
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,400
Pwned for something else, yeah, but it was

282
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,560
still the same kaudit zero process that was

283
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,000
running, but it was hidden in all kinds

284
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:47,720
of places.

285
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:50,100
It had all kinds of scripts that would

286
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:52,060
restart it, reinstall it.

287
00:10:52,180 --> 00:10:54,600
It was fun to track down.

288
00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:02,400
Well, I mean, just, I would never, if

289
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,220
a server, if any machine ever gets popped

290
00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:05,720
like that.

291
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,900
Oh, no, I- Never trust you, you

292
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:08,940
have to rebuild from scratch.

293
00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:09,960
I did, I did.

294
00:11:10,020 --> 00:11:11,880
I rebuilt from scratch, which gave me the

295
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,940
opportunity to rebuild it on a smaller Linode,

296
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,080
which is kind of fun, but yeah.

297
00:11:16,940 --> 00:11:19,040
Linode give you a strike against your VIA

298
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:19,140
or against your account.

299
00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:21,380
Well, no, not a strike, but they lock

300
00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:23,220
down your networking, so you can't get into

301
00:11:23,220 --> 00:11:23,520
it.

302
00:11:25,540 --> 00:11:27,060
So they just lock you down.

303
00:11:27,740 --> 00:11:28,580
Well, that's kind of cool, though.

304
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,240
Yeah, well, you can get into it with

305
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:30,560
Lish.

306
00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:31,660
Lish.

307
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,820
Yeah, Lish, but you can't remote into it,

308
00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:33,920
right?

309
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,080
You can't, no, no, no, no.

310
00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:37,600
Lish or Glish, your choice, Lish or Glish.

311
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,380
It is, your choice, whatever you want, or

312
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:40,660
fish.

313
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:41,580
Hey, Daniel J.

314
00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:42,880
Lewis, it's good to have you in the

315
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:43,340
board meeting.

316
00:11:43,460 --> 00:11:44,700
It's been a hot minute.

317
00:11:45,260 --> 00:11:48,320
Yeah, been busy building things, talking to people,

318
00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:50,880
trying to still spread the gospel of Podcasting

319
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,740
2.0 as well.

320
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,700
Well, let's talk about your pod chapters, because

321
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:57,520
I got an early beta test, which I

322
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,020
thought was really phenomenal.

323
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,820
I went back to use it again, and

324
00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:04,740
then it said, well, you have to become

325
00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:06,340
a beta tester, and it was all kinds

326
00:12:06,340 --> 00:12:07,900
of confusion, so I figured I'd just wait

327
00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:09,380
until I can pay for it, because I

328
00:12:09,380 --> 00:12:10,860
want to pay for it, because it is

329
00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:11,460
that good.

330
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,500
And it's a sneaky way, kind of, of

331
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:17,460
you trying to build your super chapters idea.

332
00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:18,640
I see what you're doing.

333
00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:19,300
Yeah.

334
00:12:19,460 --> 00:12:22,280
Why don't you just call it super chapters?

335
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,800
You had to throw a pod in front

336
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:24,100
of it.

337
00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:26,240
Unnecessary roughness on the field.

338
00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:29,940
So tell us about it, because I saw

339
00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:31,640
this, I'm like, yeah, this is good.

340
00:12:31,820 --> 00:12:34,000
This is exactly what we need.

341
00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:36,240
Tell me, tell us what it is, and

342
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,360
I want to know how the adoption rate

343
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:39,660
is.

344
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:42,920
Yeah, I have been using chapters for a

345
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,980
long time, and I followed the legacy chapters

346
00:12:44,980 --> 00:12:48,620
for years, and also used Podcasting 2.0

347
00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:48,900
chapters.

348
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:49,920
You mean heritage chapters?

349
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,480
I prefer legacy.

350
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,360
Vintage.

351
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,480
Vintage, ooh, that's a good one, yeah.

352
00:12:55,940 --> 00:12:58,740
Although vintage implies something of high value.

353
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,260
But anyway, I like supporting the many different

354
00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:05,900
formats, because I still use a podcast app,

355
00:13:06,020 --> 00:13:08,900
Overcast, that does not support Podcasting 2.0

356
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:12,420
features, unfortunately, and I know many other apps

357
00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:16,160
still support the legacy, vintage, whatever, old-style

358
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,160
chapters.

359
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:21,940
And the chapter experience was so frustrating, because

360
00:13:21,940 --> 00:13:24,720
for one thing, there's just not a good

361
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,940
cross-platform solution to be able to recommend.

362
00:13:27,060 --> 00:13:29,140
There's almost no way to make chapters on

363
00:13:29,140 --> 00:13:31,780
Windows, and the best app that was available

364
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:34,800
for Mac that did support Podcasting 2.0

365
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,900
had all kinds of weird issues, and it

366
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:38,740
was just a pain to work with.

367
00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:39,600
What app was that?

368
00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:42,020
It's called Podcast Chapters.

369
00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:45,280
Oh, gosh, that's been around forever, hasn't it?

370
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,100
Yeah, I used to use that.

371
00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:49,740
I think maybe 15 years ago, I was

372
00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:50,680
still using that.

373
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,320
Maybe I'm wrong.

374
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,480
Yeah, that was the initial JSON format that

375
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:57,880
we used.

376
00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:01,340
We kind of merged what we were working

377
00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,160
on with what he was working, with what

378
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,080
he had, and came to this sort of

379
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:05,680
amalgam.

380
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,460
And so, yeah, he was one of the

381
00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:09,580
first people to support it.

382
00:14:10,060 --> 00:14:11,560
Yeah, and it worked.

383
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,340
It just was so cumbersome to work with.

384
00:14:14,860 --> 00:14:16,660
And then, as I started getting into certain

385
00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:18,680
things, there were several companies that I talked

386
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,400
to that use AI and can add chapters,

387
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,880
but most of those chapter-adding AI models

388
00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:27,260
just create way too many chapters.

389
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:29,780
Like, by now, we probably would have created

390
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:32,400
10 chapters with some of these tools, because

391
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,840
of how many topics we've talked about.

392
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,520
And I wanted to use AI to place

393
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,500
my own chapters, because when I record, I'm

394
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:43,380
talking from an outline, so I know exactly

395
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:44,680
what I want my chapters to be.

396
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,380
I just don't know where I want them

397
00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:46,700
to be.

398
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,460
And so, this workflow that I had was

399
00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:52,780
using three or four different apps and taking

400
00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:55,940
15 to 30 minutes for every episode just

401
00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:58,000
to add the chapters and transcript and do

402
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,540
some of this stuff.

403
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,760
So I just decided, I just want to

404
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,980
make a tool that works better for me

405
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:03,880
to do all of this.

406
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,020
And as I'm making it, I realized someone

407
00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:08,100
else might like this too.

408
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,820
I'm going to turn this into a product.

409
00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:12,580
And thus, PodChapters was born and launched in

410
00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:13,660
about two months.

411
00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:15,720
All right, so tell us exactly what it

412
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,360
does, because it does a lot of things,

413
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,460
and it's actually quite impressive.

414
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,160
You could almost have a basic podcast host

415
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,820
and add PodChapters and have a whole bunch

416
00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:28,680
of extra features.

417
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:29,440
Oh, yeah.

418
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:32,800
So some of this ties into the difference

419
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,340
between chapters and what we're calling super chapters.

420
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,280
I like that Dovi Das calls them super

421
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,900
chapters, so I call that something else.

422
00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:40,800
So this does kind of tie in and

423
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,620
bridge with that.

424
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,620
But a chapter, just in case anyone's not

425
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,340
familiar, a chapter, whether that's legacy chapters or

426
00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:50,320
Podcasting 2.0 chapters, they're functionally the same.

427
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,360
They are a time within the audio with

428
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,900
a title and an optional link and an

429
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:56,700
optional image.

430
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:59,880
Podcasting 2.0 chapters add on the location

431
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,780
to that and the ability to hide something

432
00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:03,300
from the table of contents.

433
00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:05,200
But still, they're functionally the same.

434
00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:09,080
And so what PodChapters does is you upload

435
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,000
your audio to it, and there will be

436
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,520
an option in the future that you'll be

437
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,820
able to upload video to chapter your videos.

438
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:16,640
But for now, it's just MP3 audio.

439
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,560
You upload your audio to it, and you

440
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,520
can either BYOT, bring your own transcript, or

441
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,580
you can have it generate a transcript for

442
00:16:25,580 --> 00:16:25,800
you.

443
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,300
And the transcript generation is blazingly fast.

444
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,480
And I've built in some things that really

445
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,360
help it too, where you can tell it

446
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,540
a list of proper nouns or key terms

447
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,160
so that when it finds something that is

448
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,720
close to that, it can transcribe it properly,

449
00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:44,120
like John C.

450
00:16:44,260 --> 00:16:44,660
Dvorak.

451
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:46,600
It can finally get that correct.

452
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:48,980
And you can also give it- Wait,

453
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,720
how did you do that?

454
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,140
How did you get, I have found very

455
00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:57,340
few AIs that can consistently recognize the name,

456
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,220
the spoken name Dvorak, and get it right?

457
00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:03,839
It's part of the AI protocol that I'm

458
00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:06,180
working with, which is DeepGram.

459
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,140
They have a really good model for transcription.

460
00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:12,000
And in their code that you can work

461
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,099
with, you can send it these key terms

462
00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:16,119
so that when it gets to something that

463
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,680
it thinks is close enough, and it's not

464
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,359
always 100% accurate, but it is very

465
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,220
accurate and very good at this.

466
00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:25,079
And it can even do find and replace

467
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:26,619
options on top of that.

468
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,940
Like for example, frequently when I speak a

469
00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:31,880
URL in my own podcast, like slash give

470
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,300
back is my own value for value page.

471
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,900
It sometimes transcribes it as slash give space

472
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:39,640
back.

473
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:41,440
So I just put in there a find

474
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:41,940
and replace.

475
00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:45,200
So anytimes it sees slash give space back,

476
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,220
replace that with slash give back, no space

477
00:17:48,220 --> 00:17:48,760
in there.

478
00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:50,920
And that kind of thing saves a whole

479
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,600
lot of time too.

480
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,500
So when it uses the transcript, the whole

481
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,860
reason why it needs a transcript, you either

482
00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:59,680
bring your own SRT or VTT, or it

483
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,640
generates one for you, is so that then

484
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,960
it can find where chapters could be.

485
00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:05,940
Then you have the choice of, do you

486
00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:08,500
want to either give it your own outline

487
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:11,340
to create chapters from your outline, or do

488
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,800
you want it to suggest chapters for you?

489
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:16,720
Both ways work with the transcripts so it

490
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,980
finds where that information should be.

491
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:20,820
And it does a really good job of

492
00:18:20,820 --> 00:18:24,060
even suggesting the outline that you already speak

493
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:24,560
into it.

494
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,540
I've fine-tuned this thing like crazy to

495
00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:29,280
make it do that.

496
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:32,040
And then it adds those chapters both to

497
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240
the MP3 file, as well as gives them

498
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,400
to you in multiple formats, the JSON format

499
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,740
for Podcasting 2.0, Podlove simple chapters format,

500
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,760
it gives you YouTube timestamps, it gives you

501
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,940
an outline with timestamps, and it can even,

502
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,200
if you're on a hosting provider that you

503
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,340
can't upload or work with their own chapters,

504
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,720
it can even host the chapters for you

505
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,980
at a predictable URL based on the file

506
00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:00,060
name of your episode.

507
00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:02,800
So you could know, like in your case,

508
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:04,680
Adam, I was thinking specifically about what you

509
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,820
do with NoAgenda in this case, and Dreb

510
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:09,680
Scott does for the chapters where you don't

511
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,520
have the chapters ready when you publish the

512
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,780
episode, but you want to have a predictable

513
00:19:14,780 --> 00:19:15,380
URL.

514
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:17,320
So that's what this can do is that

515
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,560
it can create that URL that has a

516
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,700
unique stream in it, but it doesn't change

517
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:22,380
per episode.

518
00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:24,760
The only thing that changes per episode is

519
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:25,780
the episode file name.

520
00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:28,180
So then it can host the chapters for

521
00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:30,500
you, and by hosting the chapters for you

522
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,480
in the future, when chapters can start doing

523
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,340
some cooler, smarter things, I'll be able to

524
00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:39,160
build that into the system by providing chapter

525
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,120
hosting as a service, or people can download

526
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,000
it and host them themselves if they want.

527
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,100
So what's the uptake?

528
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,780
How long has it officially been open and

529
00:19:47,780 --> 00:19:48,160
available?

530
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,940
It's only been out for a week.

531
00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,640
I launched it on International Podcast Day, September

532
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,240
30th.

533
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:56,040
Oh, damn, I miss it again.

534
00:19:56,780 --> 00:19:58,020
International Podcast Day.

535
00:19:58,140 --> 00:19:58,840
What day is that?

536
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,100
I need to put that in my calendar.

537
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,240
September 30th.

538
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,140
September, who came up with that?

539
00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:05,100
Why is that a?

540
00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:07,080
I was one of the co-founders of

541
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:07,240
that.

542
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,080
It was Steve Lee, Dave Lee.

543
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,200
That's why you remember.

544
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,320
Okay, I got it, yeah.

545
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,920
Yeah, I celebrate it more than I celebrate

546
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:14,660
my own birthday.

547
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,120
Okay, and so I did hear about it

548
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,280
in pod news, but can we get a

549
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,940
presidential proclamation or something so it's a little

550
00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:28,580
more solidified in the books?

551
00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:31,980
At this point, it's pretty close to that

552
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:36,880
because it was 2014, I believe, or 2013,

553
00:20:37,780 --> 00:20:40,440
that Steve Lee, Dave Lee approached me and

554
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,120
Dave Jackson and a couple others to say,

555
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,380
hey, how about we try and start this?

556
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,500
And one of the reasons why we picked

557
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,880
September 30th, it's easy to remember, last day

558
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,800
of the month of September, but also there

559
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,680
are a lot of significant things about podcasting

560
00:20:54,680 --> 00:21:00,540
that happen around September, including your birthday, Adam.

561
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:01,180
Wow.

562
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,480
It was one of the things in consideration.

563
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,580
The beginning of the month, but okay, yeah.

564
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,300
But also certain things like the history of

565
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:11,260
podcasting where the first podcast, at that time,

566
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,260
our understanding of the first podcast was published

567
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:17,160
around September and also certain other significant things.

568
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,380
So there were a lot of, it's kind

569
00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:19,340
of like President's Day.

570
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:22,160
There isn't one single president that was born

571
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:22,980
on President's Day.

572
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:26,480
It's representing multiple things around the same time.

573
00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:28,720
But can we get a mattress sale on

574
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,320
International Podcast Day?

575
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,920
That's what we need.

576
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,420
Sheets, sheets and linens.

577
00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:35,580
Linens, yeah.

578
00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:36,840
The YSL.

579
00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:40,660
Fireworks would be great.

580
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:41,500
Yeah.

581
00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:44,220
Make them all in the RSS icon.

582
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,160
So what are you using for the AI

583
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:48,680
stuff?

584
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,820
And this is, they were talking about this

585
00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:55,740
on Pod News Weekly Review with the guy

586
00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:58,840
who's doing a video-first hosting company.

587
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,200
He has a lot of AI stuff in

588
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:00,380
there.

589
00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:06,300
I mean, how do you budget, basically?

590
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:09,100
How do you budget for the usage, for

591
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:10,540
the credits, all that stuff?

592
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:12,540
It seems like it's kind of a crapshoot.

593
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,200
Yeah, that was a real challenge.

594
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:17,260
And for anyone doing anything with AI, that

595
00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:19,240
is going to be the biggest thing that

596
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,100
you'll have to think about because you really

597
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:25,260
don't want to offer unlimited unless you can

598
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:28,980
completely predict what your output sizes will be

599
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:31,120
and how the models will work.

600
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,880
But you really, I think you have to

601
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,880
make it some kind of credit system.

602
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,420
And that's what I went with is charging

603
00:22:38,420 --> 00:22:40,860
based on AI credits where each level that

604
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:42,460
you subscribe to, you get a certain number

605
00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:43,660
of AI credits per month.

606
00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:46,800
I originally played with calling them transcription minutes

607
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,640
as a type of currency within the app.

608
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,540
But then I realized not only is that

609
00:22:52,540 --> 00:22:55,200
kind of hard to understand in certain contexts,

610
00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:57,600
but it's also very long, a lot of

611
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,400
letters, transcription minutes.

612
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:01,260
So I just went with AI credits.

613
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:05,180
And people have to sometimes just look at

614
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,220
how much is it costing to generate this,

615
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,100
do a lot of tests, figure out what

616
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:12,160
are the edge cases, see how much it

617
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,640
actually costs you depending on the models that

618
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,380
you want to use.

619
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,520
Like, for example, CloudSummit is one of the

620
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,320
most expensive models.

621
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,620
I would say it's the most expensive popular

622
00:23:22,620 --> 00:23:23,060
model.

623
00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:25,700
There are cheaper models like GPT-5 is

624
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:28,640
cheaper and GROK-4 is cheaper.

625
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,540
Gemini 2.5 is close to the same

626
00:23:32,540 --> 00:23:35,820
price as GROK or as a GPT-5.

627
00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:39,520
But some of these have different versions of

628
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,180
the model too.

629
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,960
Like you might have a GPT-5 regular,

630
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,980
GPT-5 chat, GPT-5 mini, GPT-5

631
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:48,500
nano.

632
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,460
And for each of these, they come at

633
00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:53,540
different costs and produce different results, different qualities.

634
00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:55,580
And that's where you have to just test

635
00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:57,440
it, figure out what works.

636
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,640
I made a spreadsheet to help me figure

637
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,240
out what can I afford?

638
00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,540
How can this be profitable to me as

639
00:24:04,540 --> 00:24:05,740
well as affordable to others?

640
00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:08,580
CloudMax, let's see.

641
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:11,160
CloudMax from $100.

642
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,300
Wow, you started a hundred bucks?

643
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,600
That's from Max.

644
00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:21,080
Oh, that's, you're looking at directly the subscription

645
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,920
from the AI provider.

646
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,040
Yeah, like the individual pricing.

647
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,280
Yeah, I'm just looking at this.

648
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,660
API pricing, I'm sure is way more complicated.

649
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,060
If you're looking at integrating AI into an

650
00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:34,460
app, look at OpenRouter.

651
00:24:37,060 --> 00:24:38,760
OpenRouter, oh, I've heard of OpenRouter.

652
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,360
Yeah, OpenRouter.com has all of these models.

653
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,020
And so you pay based on usage and

654
00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:46,020
the usage pricing is the same as if

655
00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:48,340
you were using the API directly from the

656
00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:48,780
companies.

657
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,460
But what's great is sometimes you can get

658
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:56,340
faster service because they negotiate with other providers

659
00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:56,820
and such.

660
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,380
But you can also very easily switch different

661
00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:04,220
AI models completely without having to go and

662
00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:06,860
change API keys and sign up for somewhere

663
00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:08,320
else and add all of your building.

664
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,800
You can just switch which model you're using

665
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,780
right with your OpenRouter calls.

666
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,200
It's fantastic for you working with AI.

667
00:25:16,340 --> 00:25:19,440
A million free BYO key request.

668
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:24,200
Okay, so when you use this platform, you're

669
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,060
generating keys on all the other APIs and

670
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:28,920
then you're just sticking your keys in here

671
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,600
and then you're calling this and it calls

672
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:32,440
them for you.

673
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:35,720
Not quite, their BYOK is a special promotion

674
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,000
right now for bring your own key.

675
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,240
The default way that it works is they

676
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,000
give you one API key and you send

677
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,020
your requests to them and each of your

678
00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:48,660
requests include what model that you want to

679
00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:52,420
use like OpenAI slash GPT-5 if you

680
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:53,880
want to use GPT-5.

681
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,480
And then it responds back in a same

682
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,000
format for all of their models respond back

683
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,800
in the same format.

684
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,980
They accept the same input format.

685
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,040
So it's really great for, this is what

686
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,940
a lot of the multi LLM chat platforms

687
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:14,280
like Magi or T3 chat and other things

688
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,020
like that that make it so easy to

689
00:26:17,020 --> 00:26:19,300
be able to switch between different LLMs so

690
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:21,040
you can see which one really works the

691
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:21,300
best.

692
00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:22,680
And like, that's what I do with pod

693
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,820
chapters where I've tested a bunch of the

694
00:26:25,820 --> 00:26:29,280
chapter placement and suggestion on different models and

695
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,020
found that this one works really good.

696
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:32,860
This one works a little bit better and

697
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:34,760
this one seems to work the best and

698
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,700
they tend to line up with the cost

699
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:37,000
too.

700
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:39,460
So in pod chapters, I have a good,

701
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,680
better, best selection where most of the time

702
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,480
people can be served just great with the

703
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,560
good option, but they can bump it up

704
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:46,940
higher.

705
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,040
That does cost them more credits but it

706
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,280
might have the possibility of producing better results.

707
00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:54,880
Interesting.

708
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,140
This is a, yeah, I don't know what.

709
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,620
You sound exasperated, Dave.

710
00:27:04,540 --> 00:27:10,400
No, no, that's, I just finished, I just

711
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,500
finished reading the Paul King's North book against

712
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:16,180
the machine.

713
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:23,000
And I'm so just down on where everything

714
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:23,380
is going.

715
00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:25,960
I'm one step away from depressed.

716
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,600
You're depressed.

717
00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:29,000
You need some pharmaceuticals, man.

718
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,920
I'm one step away from just like depression

719
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,040
about the state of all this.

720
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,780
What's the depressing point about it?

721
00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:42,340
It's, I mean, I was reading this, the

722
00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:47,740
most recent thing, this most recent, like not

723
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:53,300
defense, but like the most recent thread going

724
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:57,120
through all of the AI talk is stemming

725
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,740
a lot from, I think there was an

726
00:27:58,740 --> 00:27:59,780
article written about it.

727
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,780
And then Jeff Bezos also had this talk

728
00:28:02,780 --> 00:28:04,580
in Italy that people are referencing all the

729
00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:04,900
time.

730
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,520
And it goes something like this.

731
00:28:08,860 --> 00:28:13,680
The AI boom, so the narrative has changed

732
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:14,220
completely.

733
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:17,100
So it's like, now it's not that there's

734
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:21,360
no AI boom bubble.

735
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,780
I'm sorry, there's no AI bubble.

736
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:26,340
It's now, yes, there is an AI bubble

737
00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:31,300
and it's going to pop, but it's not

738
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,300
an economic bubble.

739
00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:35,780
It's an industrial bubble.

740
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,060
So the new way that it's being explained

741
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:43,840
is, and you will hear this if you

742
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,160
haven't already, is remember the railroad bubble of

743
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,420
the 1870s.

744
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,540
Oh, I remember it well.

745
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:52,520
I remember me and Tina were hanging out.

746
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:54,600
Yes, just yesterday, yes.

747
00:28:55,580 --> 00:28:58,980
And then remember, and how, yes, it was

748
00:28:58,980 --> 00:29:01,980
a bubble and yes, it blew up and

749
00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:03,500
caused economic harm.

750
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,900
But after it was over, we were left

751
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,900
with all these rail lines and that's great.

752
00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:12,360
And so later these rail lines got picked

753
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,420
up and used and this kind of, we

754
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:16,960
were left with usable infrastructure after the fact.

755
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,540
But we'll be left with lots of data

756
00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:20,260
centers to mine Bitcoin with.

757
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,060
I'm totally okay with that.

758
00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:26,500
And then the next example is that it

759
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:28,840
was the same, now they're rewriting history that

760
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,740
it was the .com, same with the .com

761
00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:33,360
boom, the same with the .com bubble, that

762
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,400
yeah, it was a bubble and yes, it

763
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,380
hurt us economically.

764
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:39,240
But at the end of it, we were

765
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,060
left with all this dark fiber.

766
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:42,760
Yeah, that's true.

767
00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:44,600
And that's great, and that's great.

768
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,300
And now people are picking up this dark

769
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:48,500
fiber and lighting it up.

770
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,480
And now look at all the benefit.

771
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,700
So this economic argument goes something like this.

772
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,500
Don't worry about the trillions of dollars of

773
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:07,880
economic waste, of setting trillions of dollars on

774
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,020
fire, because at the end of it, we'll

775
00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:13,540
get a few billion of usable infrastructure.

776
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:18,240
I mean, that is the broken window fallacy

777
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:22,300
taken to the largest extreme possible.

778
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:27,400
And I was reading an article this morning

779
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,640
that said that the amount of money being

780
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:37,500
spent on AI infrastructure right now is equal

781
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:42,560
to, on an annual basis, is equal to

782
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,380
the GDP of Singapore.

783
00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:51,420
And the amount of revenue coming in is

784
00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:53,520
equal to the GDP of Somalia.

785
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,560
And do the delta between those two countries.

786
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,600
And let's see.

787
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,520
Yeah, that's a problem.

788
00:31:00,780 --> 00:31:01,600
Yeah, that's a real problem.

789
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:08,540
I mean, there's other reasons that I'm semi

790
00:31:08,540 --> 00:31:08,980
-depressed.

791
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,760
I'm not depressed about pod chapters.

792
00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:12,260
I love your product, Daniel.

793
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:12,980
I wanna be clear.

794
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,000
It's cool.

795
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,840
I'm just like, I love the chapters.

796
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,540
I'm just like, AI, I'm so afraid that

797
00:31:22,540 --> 00:31:26,760
this AI thing is going to be, I'm

798
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,740
afraid that it's going to be a collapse

799
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:30,040
of monumental proportion.

800
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,660
Well, there are two basic camps of AI

801
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:34,160
usage.

802
00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:37,860
There's analysis and there's creation.

803
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:40,580
We can put quotation marks around that, really

804
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:42,100
big quotation marks around that.

805
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:45,120
Where like what I'm doing with AI is

806
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,620
analysis.

807
00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:48,120
And that's what I love so much because

808
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,820
there are certain things I've wanted to do

809
00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:52,700
for years with my software products that I

810
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:55,540
couldn't do because it meant trying to build

811
00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:57,740
my own machine learning algorithms and all of

812
00:31:57,740 --> 00:31:58,080
this stuff.

813
00:31:58,460 --> 00:32:00,280
Now, AI can make that so much better

814
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,960
where I just tell it, this is the

815
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,260
input.

816
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,580
Make sure you give me this structured output

817
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:05,100
back.

818
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:07,700
And yes, it gives me JSON back.

819
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:09,100
I tell it, speak to me in JSON,

820
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:09,480
baby.

821
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:10,600
And it does.

822
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,140
And that is great.

823
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:16,900
I think that will continue and it opens

824
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:19,480
up all new kinds of possibilities for development.

825
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,260
What I don't like is the creation aspect.

826
00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:24,000
And I think that's what you're talking about.

827
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,640
The implosion, the bubble is people creating content,

828
00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:30,120
creating slop with AI.

829
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:32,680
That, yes, I'd love to see that bubble

830
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:33,380
burst.

831
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,120
That's the only product.

832
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,200
That's the only product that people actually want.

833
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,280
Yeah, everything's chatbots.

834
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,580
You know, like the most recent episode of

835
00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:45,360
Pod News, the guy that was from the

836
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,300
video hosting company, he's like, Sam's like, what

837
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:50,460
do you, what'd you put, how are you

838
00:32:50,460 --> 00:32:51,180
using AI?

839
00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:52,660
And he's like, well, we made a chatbot

840
00:32:53,230 --> 00:32:55,040
that you can ask it about your stats.

841
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:57,880
You know, hey, which episode got the most

842
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,440
hit, you know, got the most views or

843
00:32:59,440 --> 00:32:59,580
whatever.

844
00:32:59,780 --> 00:33:01,140
Like, why do you need a chatbot for

845
00:33:01,140 --> 00:33:01,520
that?

846
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,600
It's like every hosting company shows you that

847
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:04,980
data.

848
00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:07,780
You don't need a chatbot for that.

849
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,740
This is the amount, like at least three

850
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:16,240
times this week, I have asked, I have

851
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,540
asked, and not on purpose, because now these

852
00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:23,160
search results, you know, they just give you

853
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,640
the AI summary, but I've asked three different

854
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,980
questions and it's been blatantly wrong in all

855
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:32,460
three.

856
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:33,160
What kind of questions?

857
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,140
And I had to go- What kind

858
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:34,600
of questions?

859
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Well, the one that's the most recent, the

860
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,860
one from yesterday was, what's the, I'm building

861
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:44,760
a truck in my backyard.

862
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,100
Oh, okay.

863
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:48,400
No, I am.

864
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,360
I'm building a truck in my backyard, where

865
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:50,960
do I start?

866
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:55,620
That wasn't the question, but that's just a

867
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:57,000
statement of fact I am building a truck

868
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:57,440
in my backyard.

869
00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:02,800
So I bought a 76 Ford F-250

870
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,100
four-wheel drive frame a couple of months

871
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:05,360
ago.

872
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:05,840
Wow.

873
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,679
And then I bought a, I sold my

874
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:11,139
65.

875
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:15,239
So I sold the 65 and I'm using

876
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,460
the money that I got from the 65

877
00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:21,219
to fund the building of this new truck.

878
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,179
And so I bought the 76 four-wheel

879
00:34:23,179 --> 00:34:25,420
drive frame with a drive train and everything.

880
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,659
So then I bought a 72 truck that

881
00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:31,139
I'm going to take the body off of

882
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:32,820
and do a body swap onto that 76.

883
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:35,120
So in the end of it, it's going

884
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,620
to be a 76 factory four-wheel drive.

885
00:34:37,699 --> 00:34:39,320
So I'm building this.

886
00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:41,719
This has been, this is an ongoing project.

887
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,659
So I'm building this.

888
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:45,420
And so what I needed to know was,

889
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,540
is the engine that's in the four by

890
00:34:47,540 --> 00:34:49,639
four frame, is it a 390 or a

891
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:50,120
360?

892
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,980
And so the Ford three, the Ford FE

893
00:34:54,980 --> 00:35:00,700
engine came in multiple displacements from 352 all

894
00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:02,000
the way up to a 428.

895
00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:05,140
And the 360 and the 390 were the

896
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:06,200
two most popular ones.

897
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:07,660
Now the 390 was an option.

898
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,960
And the only way to tell the difference,

899
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,540
because you can't tell from casting numbers, you

900
00:35:11,540 --> 00:35:16,480
can't tell from any sort of external indicator.

901
00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:21,800
The only way to tell the difference between

902
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,040
a 360 and a 390 is by the

903
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:24,520
stroke.

904
00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:27,560
So you have to put a dowel rod

905
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,800
down into the cylinder, rotate the crank to

906
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,100
where the piston is all the way at

907
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:35,200
the bottom of its travel.

908
00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:35,940
This is great.

909
00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:37,680
Mark the, yeah, yeah.

910
00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:41,060
Mark the dowel rod, then turn the crank

911
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:41,980
to where it's all the way at the

912
00:35:41,980 --> 00:35:43,900
top of its travel, then do another mark

913
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:44,620
and then measure.

914
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,800
Mark the dowel rod, Mr. Cawson.

915
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,420
So a 360 has a three and a

916
00:35:49,420 --> 00:35:53,600
half inch stroke and a 390 has a

917
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,100
3.78 inch stroke.

918
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,500
And I knew that they were different.

919
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:00,700
I just didn't remember which were the two

920
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:01,120
numbers.

921
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,120
This is a pretty esoteric question, though, that

922
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,280
you, I mean, this is, this is.

923
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:08,760
But for Ford guys, it's common.

924
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:11,300
It's very, everybody knows this.

925
00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:13,140
Everybody, you know, you just may not have

926
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:14,460
the numbers at the top of your head,

927
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480
but you know that the only, because the

928
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,520
cylinder diameters are the same.

929
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,320
Everything's the same, it's just got a different

930
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:22,860
crank.

931
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,820
So it has a different stroke length.

932
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,880
And that gives you the extra 30 CCs

933
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,480
of displacement.

934
00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:32,180
So when you, so I just, I'm like,

935
00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:35,880
okay, Ford 360, 390 stroke length difference.

936
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,240
I stuck that into Google.

937
00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:39,740
And I'm gonna, I'm looking, I'm expecting to

938
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:41,620
go and like, you know, hit a Ford

939
00:36:41,620 --> 00:36:44,240
forum, click through, and somebody has the information

940
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:44,540
there.

941
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,560
Well, I get an AI summary at the

942
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,660
top that says, the Ford 360 and 390

943
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:51,540
engines share the same stroke length.

944
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,680
And I'm like, no, they don't.

945
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,340
And it gives references there to articles.

946
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,880
And you click on those articles and they

947
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,280
both don't say that.

948
00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:06,900
They both say, they give you the correct

949
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:08,620
information if you click through to something a

950
00:37:08,620 --> 00:37:09,580
human actually wrote.

951
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,240
But if you read the summary, it just,

952
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:13,740
it just lies.

953
00:37:14,340 --> 00:37:20,340
And I'm like, we're paying billions and billions

954
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:21,800
of dollars for this thing.

955
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:25,000
And it is worse than the thing we

956
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,700
had before.

957
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,700
This is, it's hard not to be-

958
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:30,100
Skeptical?

959
00:37:31,980 --> 00:37:34,140
I'm saying depressed, honestly.

960
00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:37,200
It's hard not to be depressed about the

961
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:43,620
amount of, the amount of like energy that's

962
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:50,960
being put into pumping this stuff into every

963
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,380
single aspect of our life.

964
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:03,820
And it's not, whether the accuracy of it

965
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:08,680
is almost like, okay, here's my sense, all

966
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:08,800
right.

967
00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:12,600
We've gotten to a culture now, I'm sorry,

968
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:14,360
I've gone into full blown rant mode.

969
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,020
Yeah, you, yeah, it's okay though.

970
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:18,000
Let it all out, let it all out.

971
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:19,240
Just let it come out, it's fine.

972
00:38:19,260 --> 00:38:20,020
We're here for you.

973
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:20,480
It's gonna be okay.

974
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,860
Part of this is my simmering back pain

975
00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:24,080
here.

976
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,060
But like, I have to channel this into

977
00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:27,860
the microphone.

978
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,860
But the, so the problem that we've, that

979
00:38:33,860 --> 00:38:36,760
we are encountering across the software industry in

980
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:43,680
general is that everybody, everyone has adopted, one

981
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,440
of the side effects, one of the many

982
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,880
negative side effects of internet delivery has been

983
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,560
that nobody cares about getting their software right

984
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:53,840
before they ship it.

985
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,560
So you say, okay, we're gonna get it

986
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:56,660
close.

987
00:38:56,660 --> 00:38:57,200
You're talking about me?

988
00:38:58,220 --> 00:39:01,080
I'm not, I'm leaving you off the table

989
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:01,540
for now.

990
00:39:02,580 --> 00:39:03,920
I fit the category.

991
00:39:04,940 --> 00:39:06,720
No, I'm not talking about mistakes.

992
00:39:06,980 --> 00:39:09,100
I'm talking about, you know it's broke and

993
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:10,000
you ship it anyway.

994
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,060
You know, that's what I'm talking about.

995
00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:14,540
Like bugs are always a thing and they've

996
00:39:14,540 --> 00:39:15,540
always existed.

997
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,180
That's just software.

998
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,700
Software has bugs and you gotta, and sometimes

999
00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:21,400
you have to ship a fix or a

1000
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:21,760
patch.

1001
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,440
That's always been the case and that's not

1002
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,780
a problem.

1003
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,740
The mindset has shifted now to where instead

1004
00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,940
of shipping a product that you think doesn't

1005
00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:36,960
have any bugs and finding out later that

1006
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,720
it does and having to fix it, now

1007
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:43,480
you say, oh, well, we know, we have

1008
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,900
quote known issues.

1009
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,140
Yeah, exactly.

1010
00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:49,740
You know that this thing is broken and

1011
00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:51,600
you ship it anyway and you're like, because

1012
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:52,900
you need to hit a ship date.

1013
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:54,840
And so then you say, well, we'll just

1014
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:55,480
fix it later.

1015
00:39:55,580 --> 00:39:58,080
We'll ship a patch later because it's so

1016
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,480
easy.

1017
00:39:58,960 --> 00:39:59,980
You know, all we gotta do is just

1018
00:39:59,980 --> 00:40:02,400
push this code and everybody just refreshes their

1019
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,320
browser and it's great.

1020
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,860
And so that mindset has leaked into, I

1021
00:40:08,860 --> 00:40:10,760
think that has leaked into AI.

1022
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:17,160
I think the whole mindset of AI is

1023
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,280
we know that it's broken.

1024
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,380
We know that it gives you false information

1025
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,400
a large percentage of the time.

1026
00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:26,360
Now, we don't know what that percentage is.

1027
00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:28,320
It could be 15% or it could

1028
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,520
be 40%.

1029
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,220
We don't know.

1030
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,880
And it's probably always changing because every time

1031
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,200
these models are retrained, they get new things

1032
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,560
right and old things wrong.

1033
00:40:38,540 --> 00:40:41,820
And so there is a widespread knowledge.

1034
00:40:41,980 --> 00:40:44,620
Everyone understands that this stuff is giving bad

1035
00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:48,260
information a large percentage of the time.

1036
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,160
But it's like, well, we just don't care.

1037
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,380
We'll just fix it later somehow, I think,

1038
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:56,300
maybe, perhaps.

1039
00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:59,140
And all we need is just a few

1040
00:40:59,140 --> 00:41:00,020
more billion dollars.

1041
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,800
Now, I think it's a trillion is the

1042
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,620
latest I've heard.

1043
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,040
Yeah, a few more trillion.

1044
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:05,600
Yeah.

1045
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,940
I didn't, this- I'm just worried that,

1046
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:13,480
I'm worried that everybody's building things, and this

1047
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:14,780
will be for you, Dan, but also for

1048
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:17,640
myself, that people are building things that rely

1049
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,100
on AI credits.

1050
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:22,160
And one day someone's going to say, okay,

1051
00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:25,120
it works, but now you really got to

1052
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:25,980
pay the cost.

1053
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:28,960
And it's going to be significantly higher than

1054
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,880
what we're paying now.

1055
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:33,660
Yeah, I've thought about that and have been

1056
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:34,660
concerned as well.

1057
00:41:35,060 --> 00:41:38,260
But I think that as the models are

1058
00:41:38,260 --> 00:41:41,220
developing more, the possibility to run them on

1059
00:41:41,220 --> 00:41:43,360
your own hardware is also developing more.

1060
00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:45,800
So even if the cost goes up to

1061
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,040
using an API from a place like OpenRouter

1062
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,880
or something, I might be able to lease

1063
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,960
my own server with my own GPU in

1064
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,520
it that could run the model for me.

1065
00:41:55,860 --> 00:41:58,280
And then I have that own cost, but

1066
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,900
then I have to manage things like queuing

1067
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,540
the requests and handling simultaneous things.

1068
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:03,860
But I think it's possible.

1069
00:42:04,940 --> 00:42:11,800
Can you set OpenRouter to redirect to something

1070
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:12,820
that you host yourself?

1071
00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:17,780
No, but it does use different providers based

1072
00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:20,000
on whoever is providing the service the fastest.

1073
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:23,120
So like Gemini, for example, it's not going

1074
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,520
to only use Google as the provider, but

1075
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,840
there might be some other server farm out

1076
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:28,120
there.

1077
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,640
Maybe it's Adam's server, Linode server is helping

1078
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,760
to process the request, but it's using whatever

1079
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,600
provides the fastest responses.

1080
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:45,360
Okay, so you're telling it, you can put

1081
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,180
it into a mode that says, I want

1082
00:42:47,180 --> 00:42:49,620
you to use just whatever is currently the

1083
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:51,520
quickest, not necessarily the cheapest.

1084
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,200
Well, it will most available.

1085
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,380
It's for the model that you want to

1086
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:55,720
use.

1087
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,200
So there are lots of providers for that

1088
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:58,880
model.

1089
00:42:59,020 --> 00:43:03,120
And if you'd look over at OpenRouter.com

1090
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,060
then, or I'm sorry, .ai and look at

1091
00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:08,060
their models page, you'll see a bunch of

1092
00:43:08,060 --> 00:43:09,120
models that they offer.

1093
00:43:09,220 --> 00:43:10,920
They offer hundreds of models.

1094
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,620
And for any one of those models, when

1095
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:14,940
you click on it, you can also see

1096
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:16,020
the number of providers.

1097
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,580
Many of these models have multiple providers and

1098
00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:20,740
they come in at different speeds.

1099
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,340
So what OpenRouter does is it routes your

1100
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:27,260
request for that model to whichever model is

1101
00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:28,160
performing the fastest.

1102
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,960
They do have an auto model that will

1103
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,820
route your request to a model that they

1104
00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:38,400
think will serve your need the best, but

1105
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,860
that also comes at unpredictable costs.

1106
00:43:41,020 --> 00:43:43,040
It might go to GPT 4.0, or

1107
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,180
it might go to a nano model or

1108
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:45,760
something else.

1109
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:47,080
Yeah, right.

1110
00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:52,840
Well, is there a, so you mentioned the

1111
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,920
problem and I've seen this before too, where

1112
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,720
AI creates like way too many chapters.

1113
00:43:59,180 --> 00:44:02,380
Just a chat, like a chapter every three

1114
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:03,300
minutes or something like that.

1115
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:04,640
Oh, that happens a lot, yeah.

1116
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,100
Yeah, I mean, how are you controlling that?

1117
00:44:08,660 --> 00:44:10,700
That's where my secret sauce comes in, where

1118
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:11,180
I have.

1119
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:14,900
No, it's okay, you can't use proprietary information.

1120
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,840
Really, everything you're doing with an AI system

1121
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,140
all comes down to the prompt and what

1122
00:44:20,140 --> 00:44:21,280
information you're doing with it.

1123
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,020
And that's the thing that when I started

1124
00:44:23,020 --> 00:44:26,480
building this, I practiced over and over and

1125
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,820
over just running the same file through the

1126
00:44:29,820 --> 00:44:32,480
prompts, trying to get it to specific results.

1127
00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:33,940
And then I would test on other files

1128
00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:36,080
too, trying to get it to that point.

1129
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,380
And I think I've gotten it there.

1130
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,720
And so the systems that produce a lot

1131
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,360
of chapters could be using the exact same

1132
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,540
LLMs I'm using, but their prompt is different

1133
00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:48,620
because when you work with an AI, simply

1134
00:44:48,620 --> 00:44:51,380
changing a single word in your prompt could

1135
00:44:51,380 --> 00:44:54,300
give you potentially very different results.

1136
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,360
Even running the same prompt multiple times can

1137
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,680
give you different results.

1138
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,260
And some people don't realize that with the

1139
00:45:01,260 --> 00:45:03,960
AIs, they think that the AI gives you

1140
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,600
an absolute answer and everyone gets that same

1141
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:06,880
answer.

1142
00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:07,960
And that's just not the case.

1143
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:12,040
Yeah, because in traditional software, we're used to

1144
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,820
going into a configuration file or something like

1145
00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:17,780
that and saying, okay, here's the parameters and

1146
00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:20,900
you have a discrete value that is going

1147
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:22,340
into this configuration file.

1148
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,560
And for that discrete value, you get a

1149
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:26,620
predictable output.

1150
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,920
And so you say, if this configuration variable

1151
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,680
is X, then I know that I'm going

1152
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,980
to get an output that looks like Y.

1153
00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:41,380
But with LLMs, you have to, what you're

1154
00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:43,100
saying with the prompts is you have to

1155
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:46,160
say, you really don't know what you're gonna

1156
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,340
get ever until you test it over and

1157
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:49,900
over again.

1158
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:53,120
You have to say things like, LLM, you

1159
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,000
are a chatter creator.

1160
00:45:55,220 --> 00:45:56,520
I'm sorry, can I just interrupt?

1161
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:57,820
Yeah, sure.

1162
00:45:57,820 --> 00:45:58,920
You're not gonna believe this.

1163
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,100
The recording never started.

1164
00:46:03,660 --> 00:46:04,300
Oh, crap.

1165
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,440
Is somebody recording the stream?

1166
00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:10,340
Tell me somebody's recording the stream.

1167
00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:11,900
Dave, you have half of it.

1168
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,800
You know Cotton Gin's got it.

1169
00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:15,420
Cotton Gin, are you recording the stream?

1170
00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:17,380
Please tell me someone's recording the stream.

1171
00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:18,960
Oh, goodness.

1172
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:20,960
Oh, goodness.

1173
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,260
I mean, I've got part of it.

1174
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:25,820
Oh, this is horrible.

1175
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,560
When is the last time this happened with

1176
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:29,780
you?

1177
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,180
Yeah, Cotton Gin's got it.

1178
00:46:31,180 --> 00:46:32,020
Oh, okay, Cotton Gin.

1179
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,480
I'm just gonna, so I'm not even gonna

1180
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,320
start my, well, I'll start my backup just

1181
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:35,620
in case.

1182
00:46:35,660 --> 00:46:36,620
Thank you, Cotton Gin.

1183
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,180
Thank you.

1184
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:37,680
I'm sorry.

1185
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,260
Dave, back to where you were.

1186
00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:42,460
Woo, that was a scary one right there.

1187
00:46:43,780 --> 00:46:45,200
No, what I was saying is that you

1188
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:50,920
have to, you're basically, you no longer have

1189
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,920
discrete inputs and discrete outputs.

1190
00:46:55,220 --> 00:47:00,880
You have suggestions of what outputs may be

1191
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,600
based on some vague idea of what the

1192
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:04,320
input may be.

1193
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,280
So you have to, like you were saying,

1194
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,480
you have to go through and say, model,

1195
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,100
you are a chapter creator master for podcasts.

1196
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,640
You always are concise.

1197
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,240
You have to talk to this thing like

1198
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:23,120
it's a two-year-old.

1199
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:25,300
Or the way I like to look at

1200
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:26,860
it is, you have to talk to it

1201
00:47:26,860 --> 00:47:29,540
like it's overseas tech support for your ISP.

1202
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,900
Yes, yeah, exactly.

1203
00:47:34,740 --> 00:47:39,000
You're not trying to create as many chapters

1204
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,120
as you can per minute.

1205
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,500
You're trying to be instead very thoughtful about

1206
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:45,380
how many chapters you create because you don't

1207
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:46,320
want to waste people's time.

1208
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,680
Like you have to actually talk and you

1209
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,340
don't know what the output is going to

1210
00:47:50,340 --> 00:47:50,640
be.

1211
00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:56,340
It's again, just sort of like, what?

1212
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:57,540
What are we doing?

1213
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:00,200
No, some of the models do have something,

1214
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,840
it's called temperature, where you can change how

1215
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,760
much variance that it might give you in

1216
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:07,180
a result.

1217
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:09,440
If you, I think it's, I never play

1218
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,660
with the temperature, but I think it's if

1219
00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:12,880
you put it down to zero, it will,

1220
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:15,060
for the same prompt, it will always give

1221
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:17,960
you the same result for that prompt every

1222
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:18,180
time.

1223
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,320
Whereas if you have a higher temperature, then

1224
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,440
it might give you something different for the

1225
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:23,380
exact same prompt.

1226
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,620
Okay, yeah, see that's, and I think that's

1227
00:48:28,620 --> 00:48:32,040
where, I think that's where all of this

1228
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:38,640
becomes so difficult is, and I mean, bless

1229
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,640
you for figuring out how to create these

1230
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,500
things because like.

1231
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,320
Yeah, really.

1232
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,400
I think it may just be a personality

1233
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,480
thing because I can't, I find interacting with

1234
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,160
models hard to tolerate.

1235
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,740
Oh yeah, I have that too.

1236
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:56,740
Okay.

1237
00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:58,400
I'll tell you a funny story here briefly.

1238
00:48:58,660 --> 00:49:00,540
One of the first times I tried using

1239
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:02,720
AI to do something in my code base.

1240
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,600
So Podgagement, I built Podgagement completely on my

1241
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:06,820
own.

1242
00:49:07,460 --> 00:49:10,740
There was some auto completion for lines of

1243
00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:13,420
code, but I wasn't doing any kind of

1244
00:49:13,420 --> 00:49:16,400
vibe coding or prompting or anything like that.

1245
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:18,640
But I did want to try and improve

1246
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:19,640
a particular feature.

1247
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,060
And so I started trying to use the

1248
00:49:21,060 --> 00:49:23,120
AI to improve a feature.

1249
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,180
And it was a gauge that I display

1250
00:49:25,180 --> 00:49:26,760
in the dashboard that looks kind of like

1251
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:27,340
a speedometer.

1252
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:29,640
It shows the global average rating for a

1253
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:29,900
podcast.

1254
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,900
And I was trying to redesign the gauge

1255
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:34,300
because I didn't like the way it looked

1256
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:35,600
with the system I was using.

1257
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:38,260
So the AI gave me a good looking

1258
00:49:38,260 --> 00:49:40,560
gauge, but the needle kept going the wrong

1259
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:41,080
direction.

1260
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:44,900
Like 2.5 is halfway between one and

1261
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:45,180
five.

1262
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:46,640
And so it should be straight up.

1263
00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:48,320
But for some reason that would be pointing

1264
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,260
straight down.

1265
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,560
But then 4.5 would be where it's

1266
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:52,200
supposed to be.

1267
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:54,660
And 1.5 would be pointing down below

1268
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:55,680
the thing.

1269
00:49:56,060 --> 00:49:58,380
So I was fighting with it, felt like

1270
00:49:58,380 --> 00:50:00,840
I was talking with overseas tech support over

1271
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,940
and over and over trying to get it

1272
00:50:02,940 --> 00:50:05,480
to do it right and sending it screenshots

1273
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,620
and all of this stuff.

1274
00:50:07,220 --> 00:50:09,420
And then I just decided I need to

1275
00:50:09,420 --> 00:50:11,460
just look at the code and figure this

1276
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:12,000
out myself.

1277
00:50:12,380 --> 00:50:15,380
And I found the problem was there was

1278
00:50:15,380 --> 00:50:16,980
a plus sign where there should have been

1279
00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:17,780
a minus sign.

1280
00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:18,340
Ugh.

1281
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1282
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,480
That's classic, classic.

1283
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,680
That's, yeah.

1284
00:50:27,180 --> 00:50:31,480
I'm just, I think that a product like

1285
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:38,480
PodChapters is, and honestly, the way that AI

1286
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,600
is being used in podcasting, just if I

1287
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:47,380
can be, you know, like positive for a

1288
00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:52,160
minute, I think that these, what podcasting has

1289
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,560
done in general and PodChapters is a great

1290
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,060
example is probably the best case scenario for

1291
00:50:59,060 --> 00:50:59,620
this stuff.

1292
00:51:00,420 --> 00:51:02,620
Like it's a great fit.

1293
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:03,560
I'll take that.

1294
00:51:03,700 --> 00:51:04,480
I really can't, yeah.

1295
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,080
I can't find any other place in my

1296
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,240
life where this stuff fits, but for the

1297
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,140
creation of thing where you have like what

1298
00:51:13,140 --> 00:51:14,440
you've done where you say, okay, I'm gonna

1299
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:15,900
make a transcript and I'm gonna take this

1300
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:18,360
transcript and I'm gonna feed, you know, and

1301
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:24,020
this transcript is naturally a language corpus and

1302
00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:28,020
I'm gonna feed that body into the LLM

1303
00:51:28,020 --> 00:51:30,920
and have it do some things to it.

1304
00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:34,020
To me, that is like the best case

1305
00:51:34,020 --> 00:51:35,920
scenario for where AI is useful.

1306
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:36,620
Exactly.

1307
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,900
You know, and I think because you're operating

1308
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:43,260
right in its sweet spot, but you know,

1309
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,660
other parts of our lives, I think people

1310
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:48,480
are trying to jam it in and it's

1311
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,820
not really gonna fit, but I would say

1312
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:55,920
like with PodChapters, I mean, you're giving these

1313
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,540
other formats besides just the 2.0. So

1314
00:52:01,540 --> 00:52:03,860
you're giving, I think, PodLove, right?

1315
00:52:04,340 --> 00:52:04,500
Yeah.

1316
00:52:04,580 --> 00:52:05,380
As well, yeah.

1317
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:06,440
Those kinds of things.

1318
00:52:06,620 --> 00:52:09,260
It's like, how are you, so if somebody

1319
00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:12,760
is hosting at something like, you know, Buzzsprout,

1320
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,360
RSS.com or Blueberry or whatever, if they

1321
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,860
take, like, how do they get those things

1322
00:52:18,860 --> 00:52:21,180
that they generate on PodChapters into their feed?

1323
00:52:22,380 --> 00:52:24,940
It depends on the platform, of course.

1324
00:52:25,060 --> 00:52:26,260
And that's one of the things that I'm

1325
00:52:26,260 --> 00:52:29,140
trying to document some of these behaviors for

1326
00:52:29,140 --> 00:52:30,840
canipodcast.com.

1327
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,240
You've probably seen the site caniuse.com, which

1328
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:35,500
is for browsers that shows you like, these

1329
00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:37,860
are the CSS things that work in these

1330
00:52:37,860 --> 00:52:39,300
browsers as of these versions.

1331
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:41,460
I'm trying to build that for podcasting too,

1332
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,300
so you can see exactly which podcast apps

1333
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:47,160
support what features and how they support it.

1334
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,480
Like, okay, if they support the description for

1335
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,220
the show notes, can you use paragraph tags

1336
00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:53,900
in the description?

1337
00:52:54,060 --> 00:52:56,860
Can you use headings, bold, italics, hyperlinks?

1338
00:52:56,860 --> 00:52:58,240
Does that work in the description?

1339
00:52:58,380 --> 00:52:58,920
Stuff like that.

1340
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,700
So I'm doing the same thing for hosting

1341
00:53:01,700 --> 00:53:04,200
providers and publishing tools to see what do

1342
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:05,660
they support as well.

1343
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,900
Do they publish to this tag or do

1344
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:09,280
they support this feature?

1345
00:53:09,420 --> 00:53:10,440
How do they support it?

1346
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:13,700
Do they handle the different title tags the

1347
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:14,220
same way?

1348
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,060
Like, Buzzsprout, right now, at least, doesn't handle

1349
00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:19,940
them the most optimized way, I'll say.

1350
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,660
So some of these providers, like Buzzsprout, for

1351
00:53:22,660 --> 00:53:25,700
example, if you upload an MP3 that has

1352
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:28,380
the chapters embedded into it, so legacy chapters,

1353
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,500
Buzzsprout will use the chapters that are in

1354
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:35,340
the MP3 to then populate their copy of

1355
00:53:35,340 --> 00:53:37,900
Podcasting 2.0 and Podlove Simple Chapters.

1356
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,260
So they pull that from the file.

1357
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,640
A similar thing with rss.com.

1358
00:53:42,980 --> 00:53:45,920
Captivate also can pull the chapters from the

1359
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,940
MP3, but they don't pull, currently, at least,

1360
00:53:49,020 --> 00:53:51,220
they don't pull images and hyperlinks for those

1361
00:53:51,220 --> 00:53:52,560
chapters, so you have to go back in

1362
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:53,340
and re-add those.

1363
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,320
Or you look at, like, if you're using

1364
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,760
PowerPress, I still use PowerPress to generate my

1365
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,360
own feed for the Audacity podcast.

1366
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,480
And I've made an add-on plugin for

1367
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,940
PowerPress that does some more stuff that I

1368
00:54:05,940 --> 00:54:07,440
want it to do that are specific to

1369
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:08,040
my workflow.

1370
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,900
And inside of PowerPress, since I'm actually still

1371
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:16,180
hosting my media files on Libsyn, but I

1372
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:18,140
don't use Libsyn to create the RSS feed,

1373
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:20,020
I use PowerPress to create the RSS feed.

1374
00:54:20,020 --> 00:54:22,880
So in PowerPress, there is a text field

1375
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,900
where you can drop in a URL for

1376
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:28,220
chapters, and that's where I now use PodChapters

1377
00:54:28,220 --> 00:54:28,800
to host that.

1378
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:31,240
I was previously uploading my chapters to my

1379
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:33,860
own CDN, as well as my transcript, to

1380
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:36,600
my own CDN, and trying to manage that

1381
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,060
hosting was another headache.

1382
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,060
But so now I use my own product

1383
00:54:40,060 --> 00:54:40,600
for that.

1384
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:42,040
I just paste that URL in.

1385
00:54:42,420 --> 00:54:45,020
And yeah, it's unfortunate that these different providers

1386
00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:48,040
handle it differently, and that's something that I'm

1387
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,420
hoping that as PodChapters gets more adoption and

1388
00:54:52,420 --> 00:54:54,800
more people use it and have certain questions,

1389
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:57,620
I can bring that to these hosting providers

1390
00:54:57,620 --> 00:54:59,960
to say, hey, I've got a customer using

1391
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:03,800
PodChapters, and when they upload their file to

1392
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,020
you, you're breaking the chapters, and that's creating

1393
00:55:07,020 --> 00:55:08,160
more work for my customer.

1394
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,280
It's making them not like you very much.

1395
00:55:10,460 --> 00:55:11,860
How about we work together and figure out

1396
00:55:11,860 --> 00:55:13,820
a way that you can improve how you're

1397
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:14,660
handling the chapters?

1398
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,060
I know at least one hosting company is

1399
00:55:20,060 --> 00:55:23,940
in the middle of building an API, and

1400
00:55:23,940 --> 00:55:28,080
it would be nice to see hosting companies

1401
00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:31,080
develop APIs where you could talk directly.

1402
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,940
For external functionality, that's a great idea.

1403
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,460
Yeah, that would be really nice to see,

1404
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,280
because if you could get an API key

1405
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,140
just with your account at your hosting provider

1406
00:55:42,140 --> 00:55:44,880
and then plug it into your own different

1407
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,140
software tools like PodChapters, and I could think

1408
00:55:49,140 --> 00:55:51,600
of 100 use cases right now where that

1409
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,540
would be pretty awesome, not just chapters, but

1410
00:55:55,540 --> 00:55:59,400
value for value, all kinds of things, where

1411
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,400
you could just do things after the fact

1412
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:02,600
on your own system.

1413
00:56:03,020 --> 00:56:06,080
That would let you do pretty complex workflows,

1414
00:56:06,420 --> 00:56:09,920
like if this, then that type stuff, even

1415
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,760
where you don't have like no code type

1416
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:12,200
things.

1417
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:13,140
That's a great idea.

1418
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:14,700
I mean, it's a lot of extra work

1419
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:16,680
for the hosting companies, but man, think of

1420
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,580
all, that would actually be cool, all the

1421
00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:20,700
extra stuff that could be put on the

1422
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:21,200
outside.

1423
00:56:22,260 --> 00:56:23,580
Yeah, and all you'd have to really do

1424
00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:25,620
is just wrap it in one of those

1425
00:56:25,620 --> 00:56:30,380
like warnings that says, hey, you could really

1426
00:56:30,380 --> 00:56:33,240
break your feed, you know, but use it

1427
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:34,000
at your own risk.

1428
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,140
But it would be really sweet to be

1429
00:56:36,140 --> 00:56:36,840
able to do that.

1430
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:39,300
Because I think, I mean, like even in

1431
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:42,880
your case, I guess you're uploading your Audacity

1432
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,360
to Podcast audio to Ellipse and through their

1433
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:46,800
UI?

1434
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,460
Yeah, see, I mean, if they had an

1435
00:56:49,460 --> 00:56:51,540
API, you could just, you know, pop it

1436
00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:51,880
up there.

1437
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:54,200
They do actually have some kind of uploading

1438
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,880
API because Auphonic, the audio processing system, you

1439
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,440
can publish from Auphonic to certain hosting providers.

1440
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:05,340
So whatever audio you get then from Auphonic

1441
00:57:05,340 --> 00:57:07,800
then gets uploaded to the other hosting provider.

1442
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,420
And I'm going to work on integrating some

1443
00:57:10,420 --> 00:57:12,280
of that stuff for some of the platforms

1444
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,220
that support that so that people don't have

1445
00:57:14,220 --> 00:57:16,280
to even download the file from PodChapters.

1446
00:57:16,540 --> 00:57:19,180
I'd love to see more podcasting focused tools

1447
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:21,720
do that, is integrate with any of the

1448
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,900
APIs that are out there so that the

1449
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:27,960
user doesn't have to manage files and download

1450
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,100
something that they already uploaded and now they've

1451
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:31,800
got two copies of the same file, which

1452
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,920
one was the latest one, but they could

1453
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,800
just publish from one system to the other.

1454
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:37,640
Now, do I have to, if I'm going

1455
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,800
to use PodChapters to generate something for my

1456
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,680
episode, do I have to upload the audio

1457
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:43,240
to you?

1458
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,040
Yeah, the audio file.

1459
00:57:45,700 --> 00:57:48,580
Okay, because if you could monitor the RSS

1460
00:57:48,580 --> 00:57:51,540
feed and have it like publish, if I

1461
00:57:51,540 --> 00:57:54,880
could publish to my hosting company, have it

1462
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,480
appear in the feed, and then you watch

1463
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,020
that feed and then generate stuff based on

1464
00:58:02,020 --> 00:58:05,920
my wishes for my latest episode, then I

1465
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,920
could just, after the fact, go pull it

1466
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,240
off your site and give it to the

1467
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:10,300
hosting provider.

1468
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:10,920
That'd be pretty cool.

1469
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:13,100
Yeah, I might build something like that separate

1470
00:58:13,100 --> 00:58:13,660
in the future.

1471
00:58:13,780 --> 00:58:15,380
There is already a service that does something

1472
00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:16,800
kind of like that, Cast Magic.

1473
00:58:16,980 --> 00:58:19,220
Now, they don't do anything in your file

1474
00:58:19,220 --> 00:58:20,920
or in the RSS feed or any of

1475
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,060
that, but if you wanted social posts generated

1476
00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:27,000
from your episode, it can do that, but

1477
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,740
this is all after you publish.

1478
00:58:29,180 --> 00:58:31,000
I'm a big fan of getting this stuff

1479
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,320
together before you publish or, for Adam's sake,

1480
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,140
very quickly after you publish.

1481
00:58:37,780 --> 00:58:39,520
But there are plenty of tools, yes, that

1482
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,840
can monitor your feed and then generate a

1483
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,320
transcript or download the file and then suggest

1484
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,140
things on top of that, like here are

1485
00:58:47,140 --> 00:58:49,240
some social posts you could use to promote

1486
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,240
this episode now that it's already published.

1487
00:58:51,620 --> 00:58:53,440
So how are you, I'm sorry, go ahead.

1488
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:55,240
No, I was just gonna say, I think

1489
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:56,980
that'd be another area where the API would

1490
00:58:56,980 --> 00:58:58,840
be helpful for my hosting provider because I

1491
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,040
think most hosting providers have a thing where

1492
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,440
you can upload, it's sort of like stage

1493
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,360
an episode for release and then publish it

1494
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:08,640
later.

1495
00:59:08,860 --> 00:59:12,080
So you're sort of assembling it, getting ready

1496
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,360
to go, but it's not in the feed

1497
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:13,660
yet.

1498
00:59:14,220 --> 00:59:16,200
That would be a great little way to

1499
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,440
integrate and say, oh, there's a sort of

1500
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,300
a staged audio here.

1501
00:59:20,380 --> 00:59:22,660
I can process that and then you can

1502
00:59:22,660 --> 00:59:24,920
go back and do the full publishing later.

1503
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:27,660
Yeah, how are you marketing this?

1504
00:59:27,660 --> 00:59:30,680
How do you expect to get it deep

1505
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:31,300
penetration?

1506
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,620
Well, so far it is reaching out to

1507
00:59:34,620 --> 00:59:37,260
my own audience because the Audacity podcast is

1508
00:59:37,260 --> 00:59:38,660
a podcast about podcasting.

1509
00:59:38,740 --> 00:59:41,000
So my audience is also my ideal customer.

1510
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,780
So I did an episode all about why

1511
00:59:43,780 --> 00:59:45,480
you should use chapters and how to use

1512
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:45,820
chapters.

1513
00:59:45,820 --> 00:59:48,300
And it flowed very nicely to have native

1514
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:51,300
advertising inside of that episode where I could

1515
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:52,600
promote pod chapters that way.

1516
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,580
I have a couple of email lists for

1517
00:59:54,580 --> 00:59:56,600
everyone who's ever signed up for the Audacity

1518
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,280
podcast email incentives and little promotions that I've

1519
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,080
run, as well as podgagement customers, I've promoted

1520
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:03,560
it to them.

1521
01:00:03,860 --> 01:00:05,480
And then just getting the word out there,

1522
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,000
showing it off to other podcasters, trying to

1523
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,620
promote it very organically.

1524
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,980
I do not do advertising.

1525
01:00:13,580 --> 01:00:15,380
I might look into that in the future,

1526
01:00:15,380 --> 01:00:17,340
but right now it's just a cashflow thing.

1527
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,060
So I'm just trying to grow it organically,

1528
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,040
making a product that, here's my perspective on

1529
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,140
things, whether it's a podcast or a product,

1530
01:00:24,140 --> 01:00:26,960
make it so good that you don't have

1531
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:27,900
to advertise it.

1532
01:00:28,740 --> 01:00:32,280
Yeah, yeah, yes, that is nice.

1533
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,460
I have to say, I've always been impressed

1534
01:00:34,460 --> 01:00:35,940
by your entrepreneurial spirit.

1535
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:36,760
Thank you.

1536
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,160
You're always coming up with new, how many

1537
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,620
different things do you have running now in

1538
01:00:41,620 --> 01:00:42,040
your life?

1539
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,240
The way I put it is I have

1540
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:46,440
my hands in many fires.

1541
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,940
Yeah, tell me how many fires.

1542
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:50,240
Tell me about the fires.

1543
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,660
I have actual SaaS products too, and I'm

1544
01:00:53,660 --> 01:00:55,920
working on a third one that is actually

1545
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,420
not podcasting related at all, but I'm partnering

1546
01:00:58,420 --> 01:01:00,400
with someone else working on a third SaaS.

1547
01:01:00,900 --> 01:01:03,260
So two SaaS's, I have a WordPress plugin,

1548
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:04,880
my podcast about podcasting.

1549
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,200
I'm a co-host on the future of

1550
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,580
podcasting with Dave Jackson.

1551
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,620
I do the consulting, I do promotions here

1552
01:01:14,620 --> 01:01:15,680
and there for affiliate things.

1553
01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:17,460
And he's a dad in his spare time.

1554
01:01:17,740 --> 01:01:19,380
And homeschooling nonetheless.

1555
01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:22,020
Oh, goodness gracious, wow, wow.

1556
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,860
And single too, ladies.

1557
01:01:29,420 --> 01:01:33,100
The podcasting 2.0 dating services is open

1558
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:34,540
and ready for your business.

1559
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,080
We got hot guys, they develop while you

1560
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:40,580
wait.

1561
01:01:41,060 --> 01:01:43,160
Well, let's hear some hot namespace talk.

1562
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,260
Oh, okay, all right, easy does it now,

1563
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:45,660
easy.

1564
01:01:45,660 --> 01:01:51,800
The consulting side of podcasting has, what is

1565
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,780
the health of that look like now?

1566
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:55,980
I feel like that kind of fell off

1567
01:01:55,980 --> 01:01:56,460
a cliff.

1568
01:02:00,860 --> 01:02:03,160
Not maybe for you and people who have

1569
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:04,820
been around a very long time and are

1570
01:02:04,820 --> 01:02:08,520
established, but for a while there, like from

1571
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,160
2018 to 2022 or so, it was like

1572
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,900
every, you could throw a rock and hit

1573
01:02:14,900 --> 01:02:15,920
a podcast consultant.

1574
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:17,420
And now I feel like that is kind

1575
01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:18,040
of going away.

1576
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:19,860
Yeah, and it's funny that you made an

1577
01:02:19,860 --> 01:02:22,960
unintentional pun, fell off the cliff, because one

1578
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,020
of the first major podcast consultants was Cliff

1579
01:02:26,020 --> 01:02:26,580
Ravenscraft.

1580
01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:28,040
He actually lives not far from me.

1581
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:29,380
We've been long time friends.

1582
01:02:30,180 --> 01:02:33,440
Yeah, and I think that now it's not

1583
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,700
so much only a few people who really

1584
01:02:36,700 --> 01:02:39,820
knows how it works, or we don't have

1585
01:02:39,820 --> 01:02:42,700
to as an, I almost said the naughty

1586
01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:49,480
word that Adam hates, as a world that

1587
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,160
podcasts, I'm so hard trying to say not

1588
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,480
industry, but as a group of people who

1589
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:01,060
work in the podcasting space, they don't have

1590
01:03:01,060 --> 01:03:04,000
to know as much now to be successful

1591
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,160
as in the early days.

1592
01:03:05,340 --> 01:03:07,380
Like before it was all this stuff, like

1593
01:03:07,380 --> 01:03:08,460
you had to know how to work with

1594
01:03:08,460 --> 01:03:08,960
a mixer.

1595
01:03:09,300 --> 01:03:11,540
How do you use an instrument, a thing

1596
01:03:11,540 --> 01:03:13,580
that's made for musical instruments and live sound?

1597
01:03:13,580 --> 01:03:15,220
How do you use that for podcasting?

1598
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,340
And how do you do a mix minus?

1599
01:03:17,540 --> 01:03:19,020
Now we don't even have to worry about

1600
01:03:19,020 --> 01:03:19,500
mix minus.

1601
01:03:19,660 --> 01:03:21,820
You just plug in and play things and

1602
01:03:21,820 --> 01:03:22,280
it works.

1603
01:03:22,860 --> 01:03:26,040
And so the need for the super expertise,

1604
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,380
I think has diminished, as well as there

1605
01:03:29,380 --> 01:03:32,140
are a lot of people who have either

1606
01:03:32,140 --> 01:03:34,580
by luck or by hard work have had

1607
01:03:34,580 --> 01:03:38,560
success and they've been able to serve certain

1608
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:39,060
companies.

1609
01:03:39,830 --> 01:03:42,880
And it's not like there are only a

1610
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,320
handful of consultants now that the entire world

1611
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,940
is looking to these handful of consultants and

1612
01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:51,940
the, what's that cult group?

1613
01:03:52,540 --> 01:03:57,820
Not the Gemini, the Illuminati of podcasting doesn't

1614
01:03:57,820 --> 01:03:58,880
exist anymore.

1615
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,920
While there are the people who have stayed

1616
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,680
in the industry and are very familiar with

1617
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,740
it, I think even just a lot of

1618
01:04:06,740 --> 01:04:09,400
companies don't even think necessarily of hiring a

1619
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,460
consultant because it's so many people know enough

1620
01:04:13,460 --> 01:04:14,520
to get by.

1621
01:04:17,060 --> 01:04:20,140
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

1622
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:24,680
It almost feels like, you remember like from

1623
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:31,060
2000, maybe 2002 to 2006, everybody was a

1624
01:04:31,060 --> 01:04:31,840
real estate agent.

1625
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:34,500
Yeah, that turned out real well.

1626
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,940
Yeah, you felt like your hairdresser was a

1627
01:04:38,940 --> 01:04:39,560
real estate agent.

1628
01:04:39,660 --> 01:04:40,880
They were flipping houses on the side.

1629
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:42,720
It's like everybody had a real estate license

1630
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,040
that you ran into on the street.

1631
01:04:44,620 --> 01:04:46,840
And it felt like for a brief period

1632
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,120
of time, for a few years, everybody was

1633
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:53,180
a podcast agent or consultant or something like

1634
01:04:53,180 --> 01:04:53,500
that.

1635
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,080
And you really just don't see any of

1636
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,340
that anymore, I don't think, or at least

1637
01:04:59,340 --> 01:05:03,780
not to that degree after the great podcast

1638
01:05:03,780 --> 01:05:08,720
collapse of 2022 or whatever that was.

1639
01:05:08,860 --> 01:05:10,020
Has it been that long now?

1640
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:11,200
I guess it's been 22, 23.

1641
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:15,320
And even that collapse is rather misreported because

1642
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:19,580
I've tracked the data, podcastindustryinsights.com is my

1643
01:05:19,580 --> 01:05:22,020
other site that has some of this data

1644
01:05:22,020 --> 01:05:23,580
that I've been tracking from Apple for a

1645
01:05:23,580 --> 01:05:23,740
while.

1646
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,980
And yes, there was a kind of collapse,

1647
01:05:26,980 --> 01:05:29,880
but that's because the fire hose of podcast

1648
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,620
pollution from Anchor was cut off.

1649
01:05:33,260 --> 01:05:35,940
And so it looked like a collapse of

1650
01:05:35,940 --> 01:05:38,280
new podcasts when really it was just the

1651
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,440
junk podcasts weren't being put out into the

1652
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:42,180
directories anymore.

1653
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,120
So it looked like, but if you were

1654
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,200
to remove Anchor from the equation, everything looks

1655
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,500
like it's still been fairly consistent.

1656
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,500
Well, yeah, I think you're talking about raw

1657
01:05:52,500 --> 01:05:52,980
numbers.

1658
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,120
I was more concerned, I was more referencing

1659
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,340
like this, the economics of it, the big

1660
01:05:58,340 --> 01:05:59,520
deals and all that.

1661
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,120
Oh, right, yeah, the Apple Podcasts update.

1662
01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:08,660
Right, yeah, January of 23 is when Spotify

1663
01:06:08,660 --> 01:06:09,700
started laying people off.

1664
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:10,600
Yes, Nathan would know.

1665
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,480
Yes, he would be keenly aware of that

1666
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:13,720
date.

1667
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:15,840
It's burned into his brain.

1668
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,820
Speaking of Apple, have we seen any movement

1669
01:06:22,820 --> 01:06:25,300
on their possible chapter?

1670
01:06:26,220 --> 01:06:28,740
Well, you saw the leak from the-

1671
01:06:28,740 --> 01:06:29,060
Integration, yeah.

1672
01:06:29,300 --> 01:06:31,500
Yeah, where if they put something in the

1673
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:34,420
documentation like that, that means they're gonna support

1674
01:06:34,420 --> 01:06:34,560
it.

1675
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:36,800
And I think what probably happened is someone

1676
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,220
accidentally pressed publish.

1677
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,700
So that's unacceptable, I tell you.

1678
01:06:42,940 --> 01:06:44,620
They've been fired, it's not a problem.

1679
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:45,380
Exactly.

1680
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,260
Now, here's something that I would love to

1681
01:06:48,260 --> 01:06:49,940
bring up with you guys is to actually

1682
01:06:49,940 --> 01:06:53,840
talk about super chapters because what a chapter

1683
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,280
fundamentally is and does has not changed, even

1684
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,900
though the way we publish them is so

1685
01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:03,060
much better with Podcasting 2.0 and the

1686
01:07:03,060 --> 01:07:07,240
way they're published does present other options for

1687
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,180
other things you can do with chapters.

1688
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,700
Still, they are functionally the same, a title,

1689
01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:14,000
an image, a link.

1690
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,880
How about we make them bigger, make them

1691
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:18,380
better, make them do more?

1692
01:07:20,430 --> 01:07:27,560
I think the appetite, this is my hot

1693
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:27,860
take.

1694
01:07:29,150 --> 01:07:31,900
I think the appetite for that would probably

1695
01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:38,180
be bigger if and when Apple does actually

1696
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:38,840
support it.

1697
01:07:39,380 --> 01:07:43,380
If that happens, I think you would see

1698
01:07:43,380 --> 01:07:51,400
a more desire to start working on that

1699
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:52,220
spec again.

1700
01:07:56,500 --> 01:07:59,620
Because for the longest time we've heard that,

1701
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:02,940
oh, why are these 2.0 people doing

1702
01:08:02,940 --> 01:08:03,480
chapters?

1703
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,360
Because it's like, we've already got chapters.

1704
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,560
We got chapters in the MP3 file, but

1705
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,280
we don't need a whole new chapter spec,

1706
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:11,760
blah, blah, blah.

1707
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,760
And to be fair to the Germans, the

1708
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,240
Podlove guys got the same thing for years.

1709
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,920
They got the same type of verbal dismissal

1710
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,380
of, well, why are you bothering with that?

1711
01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:28,600
We've got MP3 chapters in the ID3 tags.

1712
01:08:28,660 --> 01:08:29,580
We don't need all that.

1713
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,560
We don't need some new spec and that

1714
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:32,920
kind of thing.

1715
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:38,540
And the benefits that we've been talking about

1716
01:08:38,540 --> 01:08:46,939
for so long is that the chapters, you

1717
01:08:46,939 --> 01:08:49,279
don't put the show notes in the MP3

1718
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:49,700
file.

1719
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,220
You don't put the, you know, your album.

1720
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:54,960
Some people do, believe me.

1721
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:57,000
Some people definitely do.

1722
01:08:57,140 --> 01:08:57,800
I've seen it.

1723
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,080
Sane people do not put the show notes

1724
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,240
in their MP3 file.

1725
01:09:02,660 --> 01:09:08,060
Like we have all these external repositories for

1726
01:09:08,060 --> 01:09:11,939
where this structured data goes so that it

1727
01:09:11,939 --> 01:09:14,200
doesn't have to live in the audio so

1728
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:15,500
that you don't have to re-upload your

1729
01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:17,279
audio every time you want to change something,

1730
01:09:17,380 --> 01:09:17,939
which is silly.

1731
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,000
So they, you know, the chapters just fits

1732
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,680
that same, it fits more, the cloud chapters

1733
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,819
fits more along with the model of how

1734
01:09:28,819 --> 01:09:30,220
the feed already looks.

1735
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:37,240
And I'm, again, mad respect to the Podlove

1736
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:42,939
guys people, but I feel my personal preference,

1737
01:09:44,060 --> 01:09:45,960
and maybe I'm biased, I don't know.

1738
01:09:46,340 --> 01:09:52,000
A personal sort of idea is that the

1739
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:59,460
2.0 chapters fits the feed better than

1740
01:09:59,460 --> 01:10:02,340
just listing out the timestamps in the feed

1741
01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:02,820
itself.

1742
01:10:04,460 --> 01:10:07,940
I don't, I freely admit that I'm not

1743
01:10:07,940 --> 01:10:10,020
sure that I could explain why that feels

1744
01:10:10,020 --> 01:10:12,940
that way to me right now, but it

1745
01:10:12,940 --> 01:10:16,460
feels like it fits more of a sort

1746
01:10:16,460 --> 01:10:18,200
of a single entity.

1747
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:22,060
So you say like, okay, album art, here's

1748
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:24,940
an image that represents this episode or this

1749
01:10:24,940 --> 01:10:27,400
feed, and here's a link to where that

1750
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:28,080
image is.

1751
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:28,620
Right.

1752
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:30,640
And then you say, okay, here's a set

1753
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,960
of, here's chapters for this episode, and here's

1754
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:36,660
a link to where those are.

1755
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,380
Yeah, it's a separation of concerns.

1756
01:10:39,020 --> 01:10:40,360
Yes, separation of concern, thank you.

1757
01:10:41,220 --> 01:10:44,000
And so like, that is what, that's what

1758
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,900
the whole idea has been from the beginning.

1759
01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:49,460
So I think that if we can sort

1760
01:10:49,460 --> 01:10:51,760
of get, like that's the, what I'm trying

1761
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,780
to describe is I think maybe Daniel, that

1762
01:10:53,780 --> 01:10:55,440
that's the hurdle to overcome.

1763
01:10:56,740 --> 01:10:59,960
The hurdle there is to get every, is

1764
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:04,660
to get more people to think this way

1765
01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:08,420
where the idea is, okay, we have this

1766
01:11:08,420 --> 01:11:11,500
thing called chapters and it lives at this

1767
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:16,120
location and stop thinking about it as something

1768
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,860
that is embedded in the media file itself.

1769
01:11:19,540 --> 01:11:20,960
And if we can make that sort of

1770
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:25,740
mental switch, then I think now, then you

1771
01:11:25,740 --> 01:11:27,560
have like a lot of people that are

1772
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,080
on the team that are ready to push

1773
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,780
forward with adding more stuff to that spec.

1774
01:11:34,580 --> 01:11:36,580
Yeah, especially when you start to consider things

1775
01:11:36,580 --> 01:11:39,720
like the technological hurdles of supporting even the

1776
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:40,340
legacy thing.

1777
01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:43,780
Like here's something interesting is that Buzzsprout, although

1778
01:11:43,780 --> 01:11:46,580
you can add an image to a podcasting

1779
01:11:46,580 --> 01:11:48,920
2.0 chapter on Buzzsprout, they at least

1780
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,480
currently do not save that image into the

1781
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:53,320
MP3 file that they host.

1782
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,220
So the apps that support the legacy chapters

1783
01:11:56,220 --> 01:12:00,140
aren't getting any chapter images, but only the

1784
01:12:00,140 --> 01:12:02,780
podcasting 2.0 apps are getting the chapter

1785
01:12:02,780 --> 01:12:03,200
images.

1786
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,560
But even when you think about just chapter

1787
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,460
images, if you have a podcast that has

1788
01:12:09,460 --> 01:12:12,300
just five images in it, depending on how

1789
01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:15,600
those images are saved, you could be significantly

1790
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:19,060
bloating the size of the MP3 file to

1791
01:12:19,060 --> 01:12:20,980
embed those images in the file.

1792
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,040
So it makes total sense for people to

1793
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,360
also keep that in mind that do you

1794
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,960
really need to be bloating your MP3 file

1795
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,020
by embedding all of these high resolution images

1796
01:12:32,020 --> 01:12:32,440
in it?

1797
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,820
They would be so much better inside of

1798
01:12:34,820 --> 01:12:37,480
the external file where then the apps that

1799
01:12:37,480 --> 01:12:39,420
support it can load those images.

1800
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:41,760
And then what do you do when somebody

1801
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,780
like, what's gonna happen to the integrity of

1802
01:12:44,780 --> 01:12:45,580
your file also?

1803
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,280
Like you load up an MP3 with all

1804
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,320
these different, you know, like images and that

1805
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,840
kind of stuff and these binary objects, and

1806
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,640
then you ship that off to Soundstack to

1807
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,060
do dynamic ad insertion, and it comes back

1808
01:13:00,060 --> 01:13:01,600
into a CDN.

1809
01:13:02,420 --> 01:13:05,640
Is that, has that file been molested in

1810
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:05,920
any way?

1811
01:13:05,980 --> 01:13:06,580
You have no idea.

1812
01:13:06,620 --> 01:13:07,820
I mean, you don't know what's gonna happen

1813
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:08,960
to that file at that point.

1814
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:14,120
Yeah, well, thankfully the MP3 chapter information all

1815
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,800
goes in just a specific section of at

1816
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,500
least the MP3 file in the headers, but

1817
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:21,920
that does start to mess with certain things.

1818
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,160
Like if you're dealing with streaming, all of

1819
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,300
that header information has to be downloaded before

1820
01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:27,960
the audio can even start streaming.

1821
01:13:28,860 --> 01:13:30,040
Right, right, yeah.

1822
01:13:30,540 --> 01:13:33,240
Yeah, I think if we, I think the

1823
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,600
thing you've been calling super chapters for a

1824
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,100
long time of just beginning to expand the

1825
01:13:40,100 --> 01:13:43,260
capabilities of the chapters file in general, I

1826
01:13:43,260 --> 01:13:46,260
think, yeah, I think that is a good

1827
01:13:46,260 --> 01:13:50,300
idea, but I think we'll probably have, we'll

1828
01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:51,720
probably be in a better position to do

1829
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,660
that once we get something like Apple to

1830
01:13:54,660 --> 01:13:55,120
support it.

1831
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,240
Sure, and that is part of the reason

1832
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,300
why I built PodChapters is because I thought,

1833
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,120
well, when you were like, oh, here it

1834
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,320
comes, they're ready, they're good to go, I'm

1835
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:04,240
in, I'm in the pocket.

1836
01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:07,220
Well, and I didn't start building it because

1837
01:14:07,220 --> 01:14:08,140
of Apple.

1838
01:14:08,420 --> 01:14:11,180
I actually had started building it already and

1839
01:14:11,180 --> 01:14:13,600
then seeing the Apple leak was perfect timing,

1840
01:14:13,740 --> 01:14:17,020
but I was thinking that, well, when we

1841
01:14:17,020 --> 01:14:19,480
can start making chapters do more than they

1842
01:14:19,480 --> 01:14:23,120
do right now, I'd love to make that

1843
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,360
possible with my own podcast and love to

1844
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:26,380
start leveraging that.

1845
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:27,980
And so how about I just make a

1846
01:14:27,980 --> 01:14:30,180
tool that makes it really easy to do

1847
01:14:30,180 --> 01:14:30,360
that?

1848
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,820
Yeah, yeah, that's the daily source code strategy.

1849
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:35,520
That's exactly right.

1850
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,880
We do have to talk about LN versus

1851
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,560
a keysend for a moment because we got

1852
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:44,660
a note from Oscar.

1853
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:45,600
Did you get that, Dave?

1854
01:14:46,540 --> 01:14:47,360
About the API?

1855
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,780
Yeah, whatever it was, my eyes glazed over.

1856
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:53,220
I replied to him, I think he's got

1857
01:14:53,220 --> 01:14:57,600
what he needs because he was saying that

1858
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:59,740
he needed to be able to put LN

1859
01:14:59,740 --> 01:15:02,540
addresses into the shim, but I corresponded with

1860
01:15:02,540 --> 01:15:04,160
him and I think he's good.

1861
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,960
I think it already supports that.

1862
01:15:07,860 --> 01:15:09,700
Well, you want to explain what's going on?

1863
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,920
Well, so there's lots to talk about with

1864
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,700
V4V and we're going to have to talk

1865
01:15:19,700 --> 01:15:24,520
about it in depth at some point.

1866
01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:31,040
So, but right now, so what Oscar was

1867
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,800
saying was that, hey, we're fully supporting LN

1868
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:39,880
address in Fountain, but we need to make

1869
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,820
sure that the shim, the Podcaster Wallet shim

1870
01:15:43,820 --> 01:15:49,220
can also have that data as well.

1871
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,120
How do we retroactively implement that?

1872
01:15:55,180 --> 01:16:01,160
Well, so podcasterwallet.com just interacts with the

1873
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:03,860
podcast index API to insert that stuff in

1874
01:16:03,860 --> 01:16:04,040
there.

1875
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:08,560
So podcasterwallet.com will help you create a

1876
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,860
value block and then it just talks to

1877
01:16:11,860 --> 01:16:14,800
the podcast index API and sets that value

1878
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,520
in your feed as a, just a big

1879
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:19,760
JSON object.

1880
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:23,700
And so then it doesn't really care what's

1881
01:16:23,700 --> 01:16:25,920
the, the podcast index API doesn't really care

1882
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:26,780
what's in that object.

1883
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,400
It just takes whatever you give it and

1884
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:34,480
sticks it into the database with that feed.

1885
01:16:35,140 --> 01:16:39,160
And so that's, so the part, our quote

1886
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:45,180
unquote partner APIs for like Fountain and Sphinx

1887
01:16:45,180 --> 01:16:45,760
and those guys.

1888
01:16:46,620 --> 01:16:46,820
Sphinx.

1889
01:16:47,220 --> 01:16:48,740
Oh, there's a blast from the past.

1890
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:49,940
I know, I know.

1891
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,620
But the partner API that I built for

1892
01:16:53,620 --> 01:16:59,740
Fountain just allows a feed, allows that value

1893
01:16:59,740 --> 01:17:01,360
block to be set.

1894
01:17:01,480 --> 01:17:04,820
It just bypasses podcasterwallet.com and just allows

1895
01:17:04,820 --> 01:17:07,780
them to set the shim directly.

1896
01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:14,720
And so he just needs to, he tested

1897
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:15,480
it and it works.

1898
01:17:15,660 --> 01:17:17,640
He's just setting LN addresses in the block

1899
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,360
now and just encoding them as JSON and

1900
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:20,560
they go straight through.

1901
01:17:20,780 --> 01:17:22,000
So it's not a problem.

1902
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:23,980
The only thing that would need to change

1903
01:17:23,980 --> 01:17:25,940
would be, I think on our side, I

1904
01:17:25,940 --> 01:17:31,020
would need to update the UI for podcasterwallet

1905
01:17:31,020 --> 01:17:35,820
to be more explicitly accepting of LN address.

1906
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:39,860
Eric said, how many people are using the

1907
01:17:39,860 --> 01:17:40,200
shim?

1908
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,220
You know, I don't, I think it's very

1909
01:17:43,220 --> 01:17:43,940
few, Eric.

1910
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:50,100
I really think, I think there's very few

1911
01:17:50,100 --> 01:17:53,500
people that are actually logging into podcasterwallet.com

1912
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:55,060
and creating a value block.

1913
01:17:55,260 --> 01:17:57,680
Well, it's all API stuff, right?

1914
01:17:58,300 --> 01:18:00,440
It's all coming from the APIs, yeah.

1915
01:18:01,300 --> 01:18:05,440
So I don't think, honestly, I'm tempted to

1916
01:18:05,440 --> 01:18:06,700
get rid of the shim altogether.

1917
01:18:07,300 --> 01:18:09,160
That's, a lot of people would be happy

1918
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:09,620
with that.

1919
01:18:11,540 --> 01:18:13,800
And now we would still keep the partner

1920
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:20,780
APIs, you know, for people, because sometimes these

1921
01:18:20,780 --> 01:18:23,540
people just don't have, well, often they don't

1922
01:18:23,540 --> 01:18:26,100
have, yeah, I agree, Eric.

1923
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:27,120
I wish you could be retired too.

1924
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:29,500
I may just turn it off and see

1925
01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:30,160
what happens.

1926
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:37,880
Because like Fountain, TrueFans, these are gonna, these

1927
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:45,120
apps, they need to be able to talk

1928
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:46,840
to the podcast index to be able to

1929
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:48,600
say, hey, here's a value block for this

1930
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,320
feed whose hosting company does not support value

1931
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:51,680
blocks.

1932
01:18:52,440 --> 01:18:56,320
So that functionality still remains, but the Podcaster

1933
01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:01,300
Wallet website probably doesn't even need to exist

1934
01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:01,740
anymore.

1935
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:04,400
Yes, that's right, Nathan.

1936
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,640
Everyone who connects a wallet with Fountain is

1937
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,460
technically using the shim, that's correct.

1938
01:19:09,500 --> 01:19:14,220
And that's just so that if Fountain or

1939
01:19:14,220 --> 01:19:17,400
TrueFans or somebody else sets a wallet on

1940
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:20,240
that feed, it's so that everyone else gets

1941
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:22,840
to see it because it's not in their

1942
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:24,280
actual canonical feed.

1943
01:19:26,860 --> 01:19:29,120
So that's, and we can't, I don't know,

1944
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:30,280
I still don't know any other way to

1945
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:31,180
do it.

1946
01:19:31,260 --> 01:19:33,400
You know, I can't think of another way

1947
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:33,860
to do it.

1948
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:41,300
I will say that I try, our node

1949
01:19:41,300 --> 01:19:42,160
is so big.

1950
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:44,640
This is where you say, how big is

1951
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:44,880
it?

1952
01:19:45,340 --> 01:19:46,100
How big is it?

1953
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:46,660
How big is it?

1954
01:19:46,660 --> 01:19:47,740
It's so big.

1955
01:19:49,100 --> 01:19:51,280
I've been trying to hook up an LN

1956
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:54,140
address wallet to it, and it's just big,

1957
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:55,480
like everything just- No way.

1958
01:19:55,740 --> 01:19:59,280
Everything's, all the voltage stuff just falls down.

1959
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:01,560
It's like, even if you want to run,

1960
01:20:02,220 --> 01:20:05,380
what's the dashboard program?

1961
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,520
Well, it doesn't matter.

1962
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:10,180
None of them work.

1963
01:20:10,300 --> 01:20:11,260
Ride the lightning or something?

1964
01:20:11,260 --> 01:20:12,300
Yeah, none of that works.

1965
01:20:12,460 --> 01:20:15,160
All of it goes, sorry, can't connect now.

1966
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:15,820
It's no good.

1967
01:20:17,140 --> 01:20:18,740
And what I don't want to do, I

1968
01:20:18,740 --> 01:20:20,980
have an Albi hub, but I don't want

1969
01:20:20,980 --> 01:20:23,780
the index's node to be dependent upon my

1970
01:20:23,780 --> 01:20:24,440
Albi hub.

1971
01:20:25,100 --> 01:20:27,780
So I'm just trying to figure out how

1972
01:20:27,780 --> 01:20:29,160
to get that done, because we'll switch it.

1973
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:31,740
I've switched pretty much everybody's split over.

1974
01:20:32,900 --> 01:20:34,620
Eric PP gave me a really nice list,

1975
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:37,500
so I moved all of those over.

1976
01:20:38,100 --> 01:20:41,000
I've had a 1% on my own

1977
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:42,320
Strike wallet for a while.

1978
01:20:42,980 --> 01:20:44,480
And it's, I mean, it's pretty good.

1979
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:47,240
The stuff from Fountain comes through with a

1980
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:49,260
link, you know, like the first few words,

1981
01:20:49,260 --> 01:20:51,460
and then there's a link for the message.

1982
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:53,880
And so that, you know, that link then

1983
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:55,380
takes you to the Boostergram, if there's a

1984
01:20:55,380 --> 01:20:55,860
Boostergram.

1985
01:20:56,380 --> 01:20:58,900
Strike really sucks because you can't filter it.

1986
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,260
So you can't say, show me anything over

1987
01:21:01,260 --> 01:21:03,680
one sat, you know, so you have to

1988
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,320
scroll through a ton of stuff.

1989
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,160
But in principle, it's all kind of working,

1990
01:21:08,260 --> 01:21:09,240
which is nice to see.

1991
01:21:10,620 --> 01:21:14,780
Yeah, I think there's a lot to talk

1992
01:21:14,780 --> 01:21:16,840
about with all that.

1993
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:20,940
And again, after finishing this most recent book

1994
01:21:20,940 --> 01:21:24,240
that I read, I've got even more, a

1995
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:28,660
more complex set of conflicting thoughts about this

1996
01:21:28,660 --> 01:21:33,500
whole thing, you know, about self-sovereignty and

1997
01:21:33,500 --> 01:21:36,460
how it's so important.

1998
01:21:37,480 --> 01:21:42,160
But then also, you know, I don't know.

1999
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:44,620
I'm not maybe fully ready to talk about

2000
01:21:44,620 --> 01:21:44,900
it yet.

2001
01:21:44,900 --> 01:21:46,340
But I'm hoping to get, hopefully we can

2002
01:21:46,340 --> 01:21:47,460
get Chad F on the show.

2003
01:21:48,260 --> 01:21:49,920
And because he's been doing a lot of

2004
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:50,440
good work.

2005
01:21:51,260 --> 01:21:54,440
He's just been pounding- Non-stop, non

2006
01:21:54,440 --> 01:21:54,760
-stop.

2007
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:55,260
Non-stop, yeah.

2008
01:21:55,260 --> 01:21:56,100
He's just going at it.

2009
01:21:56,140 --> 01:22:00,180
Yeah, trying everything, every combination of wallet and

2010
01:22:00,180 --> 01:22:01,840
connect and all this stuff.

2011
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,960
I mean, it's- It's so valuable, so

2012
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:04,380
valuable.

2013
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:07,500
I've learned so much just watching him try

2014
01:22:07,500 --> 01:22:09,800
different configurations of stuff.

2015
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,500
And I would say the biggest problem where

2016
01:22:13,500 --> 01:22:15,180
we're at right now is it all kind

2017
01:22:15,180 --> 01:22:19,280
of works, but Helipad doesn't.

2018
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,400
You know, that seems to be the big

2019
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:22,060
stumbling block.

2020
01:22:22,180 --> 01:22:23,400
Everybody wants Helipad.

2021
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:25,660
Everybody wants to be able to see, you

2022
01:22:25,660 --> 01:22:27,000
know, the Boostergrams.

2023
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,560
The actual payment part seems to work pretty

2024
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:29,820
well.

2025
01:22:31,860 --> 01:22:33,560
Yeah, and it's going to come down to

2026
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:43,600
like, you know, there's,

2027
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:47,880
you still have this divide.

2028
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:53,780
You still have this divide between the podcasters

2029
01:22:53,780 --> 01:22:57,860
and the listeners, and they have different needs

2030
01:22:57,860 --> 01:23:00,940
for the way that, for their setups.

2031
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:08,740
And so that's, you know, Nostra Wallet Connect

2032
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:15,260
would work fine for somebody who is a

2033
01:23:15,260 --> 01:23:15,820
podcaster.

2034
01:23:17,580 --> 01:23:20,480
It's going to be very limiting for somebody

2035
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:23,280
who is a listener, because now they have

2036
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:24,800
to go, it's going to require them to

2037
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,240
set up, you know, to set up their

2038
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:27,760
own wallet.

2039
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,260
They can't just hook in Strike or Cash

2040
01:23:31,260 --> 01:23:31,780
App or anything.

2041
01:23:32,260 --> 01:23:35,340
And then, but see, my thinking is, I'm

2042
01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:39,780
just not, I'm not sure that that's such

2043
01:23:39,780 --> 01:23:40,660
a bad thing anymore.

2044
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:41,960
I don't know.

2045
01:23:42,180 --> 01:23:43,560
I just need some more time to think

2046
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:44,040
about it.

2047
01:23:44,980 --> 01:23:50,320
And hope, and, you know, the, because there's

2048
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:56,440
this thing, like, is it this sort of

2049
01:23:56,440 --> 01:23:57,520
like growth mindset?

2050
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:02,020
This sort of infatuation with growth.

2051
01:24:04,020 --> 01:24:09,060
And in order to get mass adoption for

2052
01:24:09,060 --> 01:24:14,100
this technology, we're going to have to do

2053
01:24:14,100 --> 01:24:15,780
such and such and such and such.

2054
01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:19,380
Well, I mean, maybe that's not the right

2055
01:24:19,380 --> 01:24:20,360
way to think about it.

2056
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:25,480
Maybe mass adoption is the same thing that

2057
01:24:25,480 --> 01:24:28,700
is driving AI off the cliff.

2058
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:37,820
The forever infatuation and obsession with growth and

2059
01:24:37,820 --> 01:24:41,260
getting scale and these sorts of things, maybe.

2060
01:24:41,500 --> 01:24:42,940
That's a very good point.

2061
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:47,920
You know, it may be okay that it

2062
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:49,520
just works in a small way.

2063
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,220
That's what I told Tina.

2064
01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:55,700
I said, baby, it's okay that it just

2065
01:24:55,700 --> 01:24:56,920
works in a small way.

2066
01:24:57,380 --> 01:24:59,340
And she married me anyway.

2067
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:00,320
There we are.

2068
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,280
I've contributed to the show, finally.

2069
01:25:02,580 --> 01:25:03,840
I was waiting for my moment.

2070
01:25:03,980 --> 01:25:04,500
There we go.

2071
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:05,180
There it is.

2072
01:25:06,540 --> 01:25:08,260
We need to thank some people, Dave, because

2073
01:25:08,260 --> 01:25:09,100
I got to get you out.

2074
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:10,120
Are you going back to the office?

2075
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:11,460
Are you going to the backyard to work

2076
01:25:11,460 --> 01:25:12,040
on the truck?

2077
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:14,300
No, I'm going back to the office.

2078
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:14,660
Okay.

2079
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:17,500
Let me thank, we got a few Boostergrams

2080
01:25:17,500 --> 01:25:18,660
during the show.

2081
01:25:19,500 --> 01:25:23,880
Martin Lindeskog, he seems to send the same

2082
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,440
message twice for some reason.

2083
01:25:26,380 --> 01:25:26,820
2222.

2084
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:28,140
I like friendly competition.

2085
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,000
I've been thinking of getting Frederick Bjorman's app

2086
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,040
podcast chapters.

2087
01:25:32,300 --> 01:25:33,480
Oh, what is this?

2088
01:25:34,820 --> 01:25:36,220
Are you familiar with this, Daniel?

2089
01:25:36,580 --> 01:25:36,800
Frederick?

2090
01:25:36,820 --> 01:25:37,940
Yeah, that's the same one that we were

2091
01:25:37,940 --> 01:25:38,100
talking about.

2092
01:25:38,100 --> 01:25:38,760
Oh, we were talking about?

2093
01:25:38,860 --> 01:25:39,080
Okay.

2094
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,060
He's also a podcaster from Gutenberg, Sweden.

2095
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:42,560
Daniel J.

2096
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,300
Lewis, look forward to testing pod chapters.

2097
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:45,240
Well, absolutely.

2098
01:25:46,780 --> 01:25:49,060
1111 from Hey Citizen, testing keys in a

2099
01:25:49,060 --> 01:25:51,240
legacy app from NewLegacyApps.com.

2100
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:52,360
What is that?

2101
01:25:55,300 --> 01:25:56,180
NewLegacyApps.com.

2102
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:57,400
All right.

2103
01:25:57,980 --> 01:26:00,260
And we got a 10,000 Satoshi boost

2104
01:26:00,260 --> 01:26:01,580
from Dreb Scott.

2105
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,740
He says, please tell Daniel J.

2106
01:26:03,820 --> 01:26:05,240
Lewis that I'm sorry I never got to

2107
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:06,260
test this chapters tool.

2108
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:07,580
He did reach out to me.

2109
01:26:07,580 --> 01:26:09,500
I wanted to test, but with three small

2110
01:26:09,500 --> 01:26:11,080
kids and living my life on the edge

2111
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:12,860
of getting things done, I just couldn't find

2112
01:26:12,860 --> 01:26:13,260
the time.

2113
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:16,500
I'm sorry, DJL says, hashtag go podcasting.

2114
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:17,640
You're forgiven.

2115
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:18,420
Yes.

2116
01:26:19,980 --> 01:26:22,960
And I think, do we, I don't see

2117
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:24,220
a delimiter this week.

2118
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:25,320
Oh yes, I do.

2119
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:26,240
Yes, I do see a delimiter.

2120
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:27,860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it should be in there.

2121
01:26:27,980 --> 01:26:28,860
All right, you're up, Dave.

2122
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:30,420
Oh, let's see.

2123
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:32,140
We've got, pardon me.

2124
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:33,600
I did not have time to print these

2125
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:34,680
out, but so I'm going to read.

2126
01:26:34,740 --> 01:26:36,040
I'm just going to, I'm reading straight through.

2127
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:36,900
Go for it.

2128
01:26:37,260 --> 01:26:39,740
No prep, Oistein Berha, $5.

2129
01:26:40,460 --> 01:26:42,060
He's coming up right after the show, right?

2130
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,100
Yes, I believe he is with his mutton

2131
01:26:45,100 --> 01:26:45,940
meat and music.

2132
01:26:47,420 --> 01:26:48,020
Let's see.

2133
01:26:50,340 --> 01:26:53,020
Oh, we got an interesting note.

2134
01:26:53,220 --> 01:26:53,860
Let's see.

2135
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:58,940
What is that?

2136
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:04,210
It was from the, can't find it.

2137
01:27:05,650 --> 01:27:07,050
All right, maybe it'll show up here in

2138
01:27:07,050 --> 01:27:07,190
a second.

2139
01:27:07,310 --> 01:27:08,170
Kevin Bay, $5.

2140
01:27:08,430 --> 01:27:09,870
I was looking for a note, because I

2141
01:27:09,870 --> 01:27:11,470
saw your response and I was looking for

2142
01:27:11,470 --> 01:27:11,870
the note.

2143
01:27:13,850 --> 01:27:15,170
Cameron Rose, $25.

2144
01:27:15,530 --> 01:27:16,090
Thank you, Cameron.

2145
01:27:16,210 --> 01:27:17,550
Appreciate that.

2146
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:23,530
Calaroga Shark Media, LLC sent us $5.

2147
01:27:24,330 --> 01:27:24,510
Nice.

2148
01:27:24,790 --> 01:27:26,390
It says, been meaning to say thanks.

2149
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:29,250
Thought you'd enjoy my college student homework answers.

2150
01:27:29,390 --> 01:27:30,230
What's a podcast?

2151
01:27:30,650 --> 01:27:33,950
The Revolution Redefined looks at how podcasting began

2152
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:36,250
and explains how Adam Curry and Dave Weiner

2153
01:27:36,250 --> 01:27:38,430
used RSS feeds to share audio directly with

2154
01:27:38,430 --> 01:27:38,750
listeners.

2155
01:27:40,190 --> 01:27:40,890
What's it called?

2156
01:27:44,110 --> 01:27:45,790
Revolution Redefined, I think is what he said.

2157
01:27:46,130 --> 01:27:47,610
All right, I like that.

2158
01:27:48,330 --> 01:27:49,450
Mark Graham, $1.

2159
01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:50,350
Thank you, Mark.

2160
01:27:50,530 --> 01:27:52,330
New Media, that's Martin Linda Skog, $1.

2161
01:27:53,010 --> 01:27:54,810
Oh, Brendan over at PodPage, I think they

2162
01:27:54,810 --> 01:27:55,630
changed their name, right?

2163
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:56,710
$25.

2164
01:27:58,050 --> 01:27:59,530
Isn't PodPage changing their name?

2165
01:27:59,670 --> 01:28:02,570
It was Podcast Page changed their name so

2166
01:28:02,570 --> 01:28:05,370
that thankfully it's no longer confused with PodPage.

2167
01:28:06,110 --> 01:28:06,990
Oh, good, okay.

2168
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:07,990
Thank you, Daniel.

2169
01:28:08,570 --> 01:28:10,050
Andrew Grumet, look at him.

2170
01:28:10,150 --> 01:28:11,910
Oh, Andrew, hello, Andrew Grumet.

2171
01:28:12,030 --> 01:28:14,330
It was there in the beginning, no small

2172
01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:14,890
contributor.

2173
01:28:15,950 --> 01:28:16,350
$100.

2174
01:28:17,210 --> 01:28:17,610
Whoa!

2175
01:28:18,110 --> 01:28:22,110
Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades, only in

2176
01:28:22,110 --> 01:28:22,550
Paula.

2177
01:28:22,890 --> 01:28:23,450
Thank you, brother.

2178
01:28:24,050 --> 01:28:24,710
Does he have a note?

2179
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:26,710
Yeah, he says, I can't say it enough.

2180
01:28:26,810 --> 01:28:27,910
Thank you guys for the index.

2181
01:28:28,170 --> 01:28:28,890
Oh, wow.

2182
01:28:29,670 --> 01:28:30,430
You're welcome, Andrew.

2183
01:28:31,310 --> 01:28:32,010
Thank you, brother.

2184
01:28:32,170 --> 01:28:33,390
Joseph Maraca, $5.

2185
01:28:33,790 --> 01:28:34,310
Thank you, Joseph.

2186
01:28:34,650 --> 01:28:36,650
Oh, Oscar Mary, speak of the devil, $200.

2187
01:28:36,650 --> 01:28:41,170
Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades, only in

2188
01:28:41,170 --> 01:28:41,630
Paula.

2189
01:28:41,690 --> 01:28:43,090
Paula Ballas, nice.

2190
01:28:43,290 --> 01:28:44,630
Thank you all so much.

2191
01:28:45,450 --> 01:28:46,530
Basil Phillip, $25.

2192
01:28:47,630 --> 01:28:48,570
Thank you, Basil.

2193
01:28:48,730 --> 01:28:52,570
Lauren Ball, $24.20, always.

2194
01:28:53,370 --> 01:28:55,470
PodVerse, that's Mitch and Creon over there, 50

2195
01:28:55,470 --> 01:28:55,750
bucks.

2196
01:28:55,870 --> 01:28:57,270
Still waiting on PodVerse next gen.

2197
01:28:59,610 --> 01:29:02,110
Christopher Harbarick is $10.

2198
01:29:02,450 --> 01:29:03,090
Thank you, Christopher.

2199
01:29:03,730 --> 01:29:05,010
Mitch Downey's $10.

2200
01:29:05,010 --> 01:29:07,330
And that's it.

2201
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:09,930
What happened to that?

2202
01:29:10,030 --> 01:29:12,170
Because the use case.

2203
01:29:12,570 --> 01:29:13,470
What are you talking about?

2204
01:29:13,570 --> 01:29:16,250
I'm not sure I understand what you're referring

2205
01:29:16,250 --> 01:29:16,930
to here.

2206
01:29:18,590 --> 01:29:20,150
Let me see if I can find this

2207
01:29:20,150 --> 01:29:20,570
email.

2208
01:29:20,750 --> 01:29:24,520
Because we got an email newest.

2209
01:29:25,820 --> 01:29:28,600
Got an email from somebody saying how they

2210
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,920
had used the API in a really cool

2211
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:32,300
way.

2212
01:29:32,420 --> 01:29:33,940
Anyway, that's like my little fly.

2213
01:29:33,940 --> 01:29:35,000
Mm-hmm.

2214
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,860
Oh, oh, wait, that was the, wasn't that

2215
01:29:40,860 --> 01:29:44,820
the blind, the accessibility people?

2216
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:46,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2217
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:48,160
Yeah, do you remember the details of that

2218
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:48,380
note?

2219
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,420
It was more like, I think they create,

2220
01:29:54,620 --> 01:29:57,520
they have a service for apps that have

2221
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:59,280
accessibility features.

2222
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:01,900
And so they said it was impossible to

2223
01:30:01,900 --> 01:30:03,360
get, it was just a nice note.

2224
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,460
I mean, it was basically just thanking us,

2225
01:30:05,540 --> 01:30:08,460
I think for, this is a few weeks

2226
01:30:08,460 --> 01:30:08,560
back.

2227
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:09,280
Oh, here it is, I got it, I

2228
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:09,520
found it.

2229
01:30:09,540 --> 01:30:09,960
You found it?

2230
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:10,640
Okay, good.

2231
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,940
Yeah, it said, we just discovered your service

2232
01:30:13,940 --> 01:30:14,440
and love it.

2233
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,100
We are a small Australian company that develops

2234
01:30:17,100 --> 01:30:19,060
products for the blind and print disabled.

2235
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:21,500
Our main product is a repurposed mobile phone,

2236
01:30:21,940 --> 01:30:24,000
which the user talks to and gains access

2237
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:24,300
to.

2238
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:25,520
Right, that's what it was, yeah.

2239
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:29,720
We provide the same, let's see, content on

2240
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:30,380
Alexa speakers.

2241
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:32,700
We have our own small podcast database, which

2242
01:30:32,700 --> 01:30:33,920
we find hard to maintain.

2243
01:30:34,060 --> 01:30:35,220
We want to use your service, don't want

2244
01:30:35,220 --> 01:30:35,780
to put too much load.

2245
01:30:35,860 --> 01:30:38,960
Yeah, so they're using that for, using us

2246
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:39,800
for that and that's great.

2247
01:30:40,060 --> 01:30:40,240
Love that.

2248
01:30:40,340 --> 01:30:40,720
I love it.

2249
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:41,220
Love it.

2250
01:30:41,340 --> 01:30:42,120
Yeah, that's fantastic.

2251
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:43,140
Did they send a donation?

2252
01:30:43,380 --> 01:30:45,160
No, they forgot that part, didn't they?

2253
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:48,800
Nice, nice guys.

2254
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:51,440
Enjoy the service while it lasts.

2255
01:30:54,500 --> 01:31:00,020
Let's see, Anonymous 5170, that's true fan support.

2256
01:31:00,180 --> 01:31:00,880
Oh, thank you.

2257
01:31:01,540 --> 01:31:04,140
From Anonymous, got a few of those.

2258
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:09,360
Bruce the Ugly Whacking Duck sent 2222 through

2259
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,740
Podcast Guru, crazy ride on this episode from

2260
01:31:11,740 --> 01:31:12,840
Hackers to Keysend.

2261
01:31:13,220 --> 01:31:14,540
Glad you gave us a chance to hear

2262
01:31:14,540 --> 01:31:14,660
it.

2263
01:31:14,700 --> 01:31:17,160
It might be a Hackers 2 movie, 73.

2264
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:19,920
Yeah, I don't think so, I don't think

2265
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:20,160
so.

2266
01:31:20,620 --> 01:31:22,980
Oh, look at Dave Jackson, 9861.

2267
01:31:23,220 --> 01:31:24,520
That's your partner in crime, Daniel.

2268
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:25,080
Nice.

2269
01:31:25,780 --> 01:31:26,100
Nice.

2270
01:31:26,500 --> 01:31:31,580
Through Castamatic, he says 9861, the Todd Cochran

2271
01:31:31,580 --> 01:31:31,980
boost.

2272
01:31:34,580 --> 01:31:35,300
9861.

2273
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:37,980
He died on September 9th and he was

2274
01:31:37,980 --> 01:31:38,840
61 years old.

2275
01:31:39,660 --> 01:31:43,680
9861, forever now enshrined as the Todd boost.

2276
01:31:44,180 --> 01:31:45,060
The Todd boost.

2277
01:31:46,540 --> 01:31:47,440
Rest in peace, brother.

2278
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:53,800
Oh, Eric from R Podcasting, 190,000 sats.

2279
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:54,480
What?

2280
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:58,880
Baller, shot caller, 20 inch blades on the

2281
01:31:58,880 --> 01:31:59,620
Impala.

2282
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,700
Whoa, that's a nice boost.

2283
01:32:03,420 --> 01:32:05,260
Yikes, hi Dave and Adam.

2284
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:06,680
I know I've been away for most of

2285
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,480
the year but I'm slowly catching back up.

2286
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:11,200
This might be the first ever apology boost.

2287
01:32:11,900 --> 01:32:12,480
Not the first.

2288
01:32:12,980 --> 01:32:15,060
Because I saw that the GitHub actions to

2289
01:32:15,060 --> 01:32:18,000
update the fancy podcast index database dashboard analysis

2290
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:20,260
had stopped running for almost a year.

2291
01:32:20,740 --> 01:32:21,980
Ah, yes.

2292
01:32:23,420 --> 01:32:25,500
GitHub disables scheduled actions if there are no

2293
01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:26,860
commits for more than 60 days.

2294
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,040
You know, I did not know that.

2295
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:28,800
Oh, really?

2296
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:30,760
Oh, that's important information.

2297
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:32,200
It's good to know.

2298
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,300
I fixed that problem and now the dashboard

2299
01:32:35,300 --> 01:32:38,240
has the latest and greatest analyses of duplicates

2300
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:39,140
and quality checks.

2301
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:40,880
I'll do a better job of monitoring, I

2302
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:41,220
promise.

2303
01:32:41,380 --> 01:32:42,380
And go podcasting.

2304
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:43,540
Okay, let's go podcasting.

2305
01:32:43,540 --> 01:32:43,860
Go podcasting!

2306
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:46,660
I'm going to throw out a go podcasting

2307
01:32:46,660 --> 01:32:47,380
for that boost.

2308
01:32:48,260 --> 01:32:50,060
Apology boosts are the best, aren't they?

2309
01:32:50,060 --> 01:32:52,580
All right, I just popped this, yes.

2310
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:54,680
I just popped this link from Eric over

2311
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:56,140
here into the boardroom.

2312
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:57,920
Thank you, brother.

2313
01:32:58,140 --> 01:32:58,880
Appreciate that, man.

2314
01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:01,100
Oh, Kyron from Mirimodal's podcast.

2315
01:33:01,380 --> 01:33:02,240
One, one, one, one.

2316
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:03,260
Essential Richard from Fountain.

2317
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:04,860
He says, we demand change around here.

2318
01:33:05,100 --> 01:33:06,380
More beers in the boardroom.

2319
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:07,200
Okay.

2320
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:08,600
There's your change.

2321
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:10,580
No beer in the boardroom allowed, Kyron.

2322
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:11,460
No, no, no.

2323
01:33:11,660 --> 01:33:12,420
Donuts, yes.

2324
01:33:12,540 --> 01:33:13,020
Beer, no.

2325
01:33:13,660 --> 01:33:13,960
Yep.

2326
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:15,080
And whiskey.

2327
01:33:15,780 --> 01:33:20,080
And the Delimiter Comma Street Blogger, 12,450

2328
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:21,540
sats through Fountain.

2329
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:24,440
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.

2330
01:33:25,020 --> 01:33:30,160
Bros, for your female partners, girlfriends, hoes, or

2331
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:34,640
wives, I want to recommend a podcast by

2332
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,180
ladies for ladies entitled Dumpster Fire with Bridget

2333
01:33:39,180 --> 01:33:39,960
Fatesi.

2334
01:33:40,820 --> 01:33:45,000
Quote, Dumpster Fire is a satirical show created

2335
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,300
and hosted by comedian Bridget Fatesi.

2336
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:49,180
I think it's Fatasi.

2337
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:50,340
Fatasi.

2338
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:53,340
That takes a look at the weekend news,

2339
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:55,680
current events, and politics.

2340
01:33:56,160 --> 01:33:58,180
We make burgers out of your sacred cows.

2341
01:33:58,560 --> 01:33:59,780
Delicious, end quote.

2342
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:05,080
It's in podcastindex.org or www.fatasi.com.

2343
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:08,280
Yo, CSB, the maker of www.trading.toys.

2344
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:10,300
It's like the third person who's reached out

2345
01:34:10,300 --> 01:34:11,100
to me about her.

2346
01:34:12,180 --> 01:34:13,540
Someone connected me with her.

2347
01:34:13,540 --> 01:34:18,260
Someone from Glenn Beck Show said, I know

2348
01:34:18,260 --> 01:34:22,980
I'm overstepping social boundaries, but Bridget's a sister

2349
01:34:22,980 --> 01:34:24,400
in Christ and I want to make sure

2350
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:26,040
you people in the hill country knew about

2351
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:26,380
each other.

2352
01:34:26,460 --> 01:34:29,120
She lives in Georgetown, which is 100 miles

2353
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:30,040
away, but okay.

2354
01:34:30,620 --> 01:34:32,080
And then someone else sent me a note

2355
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:33,920
and said you should listen to what Bridget's

2356
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,020
doing and help her with value for value.

2357
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,620
So three times, after three times, that means

2358
01:34:39,620 --> 01:34:40,800
I got to do something about it.

2359
01:34:40,820 --> 01:34:42,240
So I'll reach out to her.

2360
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaking of hill country, I found out the

2361
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:50,060
other day my wife teaches at a Charlotte

2362
01:34:50,060 --> 01:34:52,000
Mason school, if you know anything about the

2363
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,580
Charlotte Mason method.

2364
01:34:55,420 --> 01:34:58,240
Yeah, but there's a name here, not heritage.

2365
01:34:59,960 --> 01:35:00,460
Ambleside.

2366
01:35:00,540 --> 01:35:02,760
Ambleside, yes, Ambleside, right down the road here.

2367
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:04,280
That's right, yep.

2368
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:06,920
And so my wife started teaching Charlotte Mason

2369
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:12,060
educational philosophy, gosh, many, many years ago.

2370
01:35:12,060 --> 01:35:13,120
Probably 15 years ago.

2371
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:16,520
And she used Ambleside online to do that

2372
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:17,160
with our kids.

2373
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:18,500
And now she teaches at a Charlotte Mason

2374
01:35:18,500 --> 01:35:18,960
school.

2375
01:35:19,260 --> 01:35:20,620
And I just found out the other day

2376
01:35:20,620 --> 01:35:22,840
that the people that created Ambleside online are

2377
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:23,580
from Fredericksburg.

2378
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:24,980
Yeah, that's right.

2379
01:35:25,260 --> 01:35:28,760
I've actually, they, this is one of those,

2380
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:31,220
hey, come on, talk to us about podcasting,

2381
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:34,420
because some people go to church, they work

2382
01:35:34,420 --> 01:35:35,100
at Ambleside.

2383
01:35:35,220 --> 01:35:36,780
So I met with everybody, met with all

2384
01:35:36,780 --> 01:35:37,340
the leadership.

2385
01:35:37,740 --> 01:35:40,020
And after that, pretty much crickets, that's how

2386
01:35:40,020 --> 01:35:40,340
it goes.

2387
01:35:41,220 --> 01:35:43,200
Yeah, but that's a huge, I mean, that's

2388
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,460
a huge deal in that world.

2389
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:49,100
Well, we're trying to get them to do

2390
01:35:49,100 --> 01:35:49,580
some podcasting.

2391
01:35:49,980 --> 01:35:54,000
What always happens is the leadership wants to

2392
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:54,500
do the podcast.

2393
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:56,080
I'm like, but you need to get the

2394
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,180
kids podcasting.

2395
01:35:57,300 --> 01:35:59,060
You don't understand this is where it needs

2396
01:35:59,060 --> 01:35:59,340
to go.

2397
01:35:59,460 --> 01:36:01,160
I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't really think

2398
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:01,680
about that.

2399
01:36:04,020 --> 01:36:05,160
Hey, Daniel J.

2400
01:36:05,260 --> 01:36:07,620
Lewis, man, thank you so much for being

2401
01:36:07,620 --> 01:36:07,880
here.

2402
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:10,260
Congratulations with the launch of PodChapters.

2403
01:36:10,660 --> 01:36:12,620
I'll be praying for Apple to add chapters

2404
01:36:12,620 --> 01:36:15,060
soon, and that it'll fit seamlessly, that they

2405
01:36:15,060 --> 01:36:16,960
should create an API for all your stuff

2406
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:17,880
to just flow in.

2407
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:19,300
Thank you.

2408
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:23,380
And thank you to everybody who supported us

2409
01:36:23,380 --> 01:36:25,020
here at podcastindex.org.

2410
01:36:25,140 --> 01:36:27,620
Of course, everything goes into the fund to

2411
01:36:27,620 --> 01:36:29,060
keep the index running.

2412
01:36:29,300 --> 01:36:31,120
You can go to podcastindex.org down at

2413
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:31,420
the bottom.

2414
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,500
There's a big red donut button.

2415
01:36:33,580 --> 01:36:34,660
There's a donut button there.

2416
01:36:35,060 --> 01:36:37,060
A big red, I want that button.

2417
01:36:37,060 --> 01:36:40,000
Hit the donut button and support us with

2418
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,100
your Fiat fund coupons.

2419
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:42,640
We always accept the boost, of course.

2420
01:36:42,740 --> 01:36:43,820
We really appreciate that.

2421
01:36:44,540 --> 01:36:46,700
Brother Dave, I hope you feel better.

2422
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:50,960
And you take it easy on the truck

2423
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:51,520
in the backyard.

2424
01:36:51,860 --> 01:36:53,040
Don't be so mad at the AI.

2425
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,140
Daniel, any parting words?

2426
01:36:56,220 --> 01:36:57,000
Go podcasting.

2427
01:36:57,220 --> 01:36:58,360
There it is, everybody.

2428
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:00,320
Thank you very much, boardroom.

2429
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:02,880
Cotton Gin, please give me the link to

2430
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:04,700
the recording so we can actually post this.

2431
01:37:04,700 --> 01:37:06,720
We'll see you next week here on Podcasting

2432
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:21,280
2.0. Podcasts

2433
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:21,740
are cool.

2434
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:24,700
Do you hope you have been listening to

2435
01:37:24,700 --> 01:37:26,580
Podcasting 2.0?

2436
01:37:26,740 --> 01:37:30,320
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2437
01:37:30,740 --> 01:37:32,220
Go podcasting!

2438
01:37:32,220 --> 01:37:35,000
Player A enters the game.