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Podcasting 2.0 for January 17, 2025, episode

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207.

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We've got weather!

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Oh, hello everybody.

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Shiver me timbers, it is very cold, even

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here in Texas.

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It is time once again for the board

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meeting of 2.0, the podcasting 2.0,

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that is.

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Everything going on with podcasting, what has been,

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what it is, and what is to come.

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We are the only boardroom that stacks sats

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for liquidity and love.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who put the L in medium equals

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music L.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one and only Mr. Dave Jones!

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So, just to clarify.

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Please do, please do.

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We are not banned in the U.S.

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By the unanimous decision of the Supreme Court,

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our show is still, the board meeting is

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still fine.

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Yes, we are not, we've never been on

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the App Store, but we're still not banned,

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yes.

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Right, yes.

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We're good to go.

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You can't ban RSS.

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No, you can't, it just can't happen.

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It can't happen, they can ban apps, there

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it is, you build your audience somewhere and

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you take it with what it is.

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It's just what it is.

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I think we'll start something off new here

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today, Dave.

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Oh.

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Yes, I think we'll start.

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I think we need to start with a

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new category.

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Wait a second.

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Known as...

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We didn't have a meeting about this.

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No, we did not have a meeting.

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This is Podsage Words of Wisdom.

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Quiet, quiet, quiet, I'm doing it.

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Shh, don't ruin it.

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Do it again.

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Podsage Words of Wisdom.

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Sometimes, you code a thing and it works,

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but you don't know why it works.

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Sometimes, you code a thing and it works,

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and you know why it works, but you're

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wrong.

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This has been this week's Podsage Words of

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Wisdom.

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I don't know who this Podsage is, but

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I wholeheartedly agree.

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I think this is a beautiful new segment.

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I've read that.

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I'm like, wow, that's so deep.

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I think I may have had some...

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It's like, how many double negatives can you

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stack into the same...

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Work for me, brother.

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I've not done much software development myself, but

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I'm all in on this.

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That seems just about right.

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This came after an attempt to build some

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queuing into the Godcaster thing.

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At some point, your eyes just go crossed.

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It glaze over, I'm sure.

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Yeah, you're like, man, this is all just

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garbledygook.

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I don't know why.

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Then it starts working, and you're like...

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Cool.

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Cool.

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Back it up.

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Back it up.

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Save.

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Exit.

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We're good to go.

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It worked.

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You want to do that, but you're in

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your heart of hearts.

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You know that this is just wrong.

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This is a fake.

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This is a fake.

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You need to be posting more of these,

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because these are awesome.

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In fact, I smell a book.

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It could be a book.

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A calendar.

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A calendar.

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A daily calendar.

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Words of wisdom from PodSage in development.

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It's like those old SNL skits of the,

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what was it, Deep Thoughts.

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Yes, by Jack Handy.

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My favorite one was one day your son

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asked you, Dad, why is it raining?

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And you say, well, son, it's because God

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is crying.

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And he'll say, why is God crying?

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And you respond, it's probably because of something

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you did.

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Exactly.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Let's see.

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Before we bring in today's guest who is

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hanging on diligently, is there anything we need

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to talk about before we get started?

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Anything?

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I don't reckon.

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No, we can pull the host of Spotify

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Weekly Review right into it.

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Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome into the boardroom,

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the CEO of True Fans, co-host of

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The Power, Pod News Weekly Review, the one,

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the only, the inimitable, there it is, my

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favorite word, Sam Sethe.

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Wow, wow, wow.

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I'm going to frame that, clip that, and

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have that as my intro to any room

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I go into next.

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Hey, Sam, happy New Year.

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How are you doing?

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I'm good, brother, very good.

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And happy New Year to you both.

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Yeah, so the, I mean, right before the

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show, the Supreme Court TikTok ban, I mean,

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I think it's really, I think it's worth

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mentioning just because if it does go through

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and it is banned off, you know, app

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stores and that kind of thing in the

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U.S. and, I mean, I have my

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own thoughts about it, but I do, I

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mean, that could be a significant sort of

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ripple.

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Precedence, really, precedence.

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Well, you know, just avoiding the legal part

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of it, you know, the precedent part, which

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I think, you know, it like, it could

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ripple through pretty much all of the media

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landscape, including podcasting.

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Oh, yeah, all you have to do is

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say that you have connections to a country

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or a government that's on the list and

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that's it.

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That's it, you're done.

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And I do think other countries will follow

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suit if this goes through.

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I mean, I think the U.K. probably

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would too.

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Do you think so, Sam?

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No, I don't.

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Really?

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Yeah, I don't think they will.

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I think the way that it's been framed

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at the moment, I don't think it's going

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to get banned.

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I think it's going to be the 19th,

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it will shadow out maybe for a day.

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The investment from one of Trump's major partners

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or backers, he's in TikTok, I think it's

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a turn around.

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It's either going to be, look, a presidential

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executive order, day one, TikTok's back, hurrah, or

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it's going to just shadow out.

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The actual order doesn't say that it's banned.

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What it is is it's not allowed to

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be in the app stores anymore, so you

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can't download anymore.

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And if that's the case, TikTok have said

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themselves, then if we can't get more new

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users, we will take it off.

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So I suspect it'll be a day.

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Weirdly, it's the 19th, the day before the

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inauguration.

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I just find that timing really weird as

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well.

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Oh, that's very typical politics in America.

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I would have to say, I want to

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reiterate my stance on this, that TikTok does

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not track any more than Instagram or YouTube

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or any app in the app store, certainly

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if they're using Firebase.

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It's like these were bills that were put

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in by people who were heavily sponsored by

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Google and Amazon.

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And to me, it was just good old

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-fashioned, let's get rid of the competition.

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They're eating our lunch.

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They're taking billions of dollars away in revenue,

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particularly Amazon, actually, which is what people don't

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realize.

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The TikTok shop is wildly successful, wildly successful.

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And they're selling, and I just know a

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couple of the products, but they're selling products

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way under price.

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So you can get your Baofeng handheld 2

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-meter ham radio for $12, which is at

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least $3 cheaper than through Amazon.

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And I know that people who are doing

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TikTok videos with 8,000 followers within two

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weeks, selling these handheld ham radios made $10

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,000 in commission.

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That's some serious coin right there.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, you can say all you

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want about, oh, we'll just, you know, Red

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Note or, you know, maybe Musk will bring

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back Vine.

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It's not that easy to copy a service.

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Forget the algo.

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I don't think the algo is actually so

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difficult.

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What they do very well at is tagging

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the content.

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And they may have 100,000 anonymous Indians

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walking around or Chinese.

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Sorry, just putting the word in for the

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brothers.

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What's wrong with that?

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Well, this is why I say this, Sam.

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And, you know, that's really their magic is

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how they tag the content.

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The algo just gives you all the stuff

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you want, the stuff you're interested in.

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I don't think it's that spectacular.

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But Silicon Valley has time and again tried

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to copy successful formulas and the biggest companies

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with the most resources, Google being the number

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one, have failed.

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They always fail at it.

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There's something happens.

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There's some magic.

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It kicks in.

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It grabs hold.

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And you can't, like, get that lightning and

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put it in your own bottle.

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You know, it's just there's too many examples

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of that not working.

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Now, I've said, I think I said in

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the last board meeting, we need more short

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-form video.

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We need more chicks in bikinis with guns.

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This is what America's good at.

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The GDP has been helped by Taylor Swift

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and all this nonsense.

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You know, that's good for us.

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We need to be doing lots of stupid

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media.

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I'll be voting for this on the board.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm voting for that.

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We're having a board meeting.

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I'm voting for that, yeah.

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Babes in bikinis with guns, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Of course.

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Of course.

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Well, I don't want to spend too much

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time on it, but my most cynical view

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of this is, so it's every number I've

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seen is ByteDance is currently at like a

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$300 billion valuation.

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Yeah.

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But the ban itself, the numbers I saw

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would knock it down to around $40 billion.

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That's the exact same price that Elon paid

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for Twitter.

276
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:26,630
Yeah.

277
00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:30,810
This could literally be, this could let, Trump

278
00:10:30,810 --> 00:10:34,410
could let the ban go into effect, kill

279
00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:37,790
the valuation, and Elon could snatch it up

280
00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:40,850
and integrate TikTok directly into X.

281
00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:41,430
Boom.

282
00:10:41,890 --> 00:10:42,030
Yeah.

283
00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:45,170
Again, no guarantee of success.

284
00:10:45,330 --> 00:10:47,190
There's just no guarantee of success.

285
00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,130
And the executive orders, I mean, there's a

286
00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:53,210
lot more important things that we need executive

287
00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:54,030
orders for.

288
00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:56,250
Oh, yeah, for sure.

289
00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:59,410
And, you know, to override Congress with an

290
00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:01,590
executive order is a big deal.

291
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:05,430
To override a Supreme Court opinion is a

292
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:06,110
big deal.

293
00:11:06,730 --> 00:11:08,050
You know, does he want to spend all

294
00:11:08,050 --> 00:11:10,830
that political capital right there, or does he

295
00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:15,550
want to blame it on Democrat representatives?

296
00:11:15,790 --> 00:11:16,830
You know, there's a lot of stuff he

297
00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:17,750
could do with it.

298
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:20,770
For TikTok, just as a number that we

299
00:11:20,770 --> 00:11:23,610
should all understand, how much revenue do you

300
00:11:23,610 --> 00:11:26,330
think TikTok, what is the revenue share of

301
00:11:26,330 --> 00:11:27,570
the U.S. market for TikTok?

302
00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:28,630
What do you think that is?

303
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:32,270
For the U.S. market specifically?

304
00:11:32,490 --> 00:11:32,990
Oh, I don't know.

305
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:35,110
170 million?

306
00:11:35,270 --> 00:11:37,910
No, percentage of their overall revenue.

307
00:11:38,510 --> 00:11:38,750
Revenue.

308
00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:40,130
Oh, gosh.

309
00:11:40,270 --> 00:11:41,570
Probably 60 percent?

310
00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:42,270
20.

311
00:11:43,090 --> 00:11:43,650
20?

312
00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:44,690
20 percent.

313
00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:47,030
And the oil baron, my friend the oil

314
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:50,830
baron, TikTok has six floors in his building,

315
00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:53,550
and he says that as of last week,

316
00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:54,350
no one's there.

317
00:11:55,330 --> 00:11:57,070
So they may have already decided.

318
00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:58,470
They're like, you know, whatever.

319
00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:00,590
Okay, we don't need to be in America,

320
00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:03,250
which will solidify that it was never about

321
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:08,590
tracking and passing American data onto the CCP.

322
00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:09,990
That was all nonsense.

323
00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:12,030
It's truly nonsense.

324
00:12:12,730 --> 00:12:15,250
The App Store is very particular about what

325
00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:17,250
you track and see what they do with

326
00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:17,650
Facebook.

327
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:21,350
They totally hose them on the advertising tracking.

328
00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:23,310
I'm not sure exactly what that technical piece

329
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:23,630
is.

330
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:27,210
But it costs Facebook billions of dollars annually

331
00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:27,850
in revenue.

332
00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:31,250
And they don't let any app just track

333
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:31,970
you anywhere.

334
00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:35,510
I mean, actually, they do, but not more

335
00:12:35,510 --> 00:12:36,110
than the other.

336
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:37,970
Everyone has an equal playing field.

337
00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:38,730
It's just nonsense.

338
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:41,770
And the competition will be gone, and that's

339
00:12:41,770 --> 00:12:43,930
20 percent that goes back to someone else.

340
00:12:45,310 --> 00:12:47,010
There is precedent for this.

341
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:49,950
TikTok was banned in India a couple of

342
00:12:49,950 --> 00:12:50,370
years ago.

343
00:12:50,670 --> 00:12:51,650
By their own people?

344
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:52,830
The people doing the work?

345
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:53,970
This is an outrage.

346
00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:58,970
Yeah, but that was because, you know, Modi

347
00:12:58,970 --> 00:13:00,710
fell out with Xi Jinping.

348
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:02,090
Right, right.

349
00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:05,130
That now is coming back to India.

350
00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:08,350
So they've had a powwow meeting in January,

351
00:13:08,890 --> 00:13:11,910
shook hands, realized that the actual economic value

352
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,350
of trading between the two countries is higher

353
00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:16,970
than the value of fighting over Nepal, which

354
00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:19,790
is where the idea was about going away.

355
00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:21,750
TikTok will go back there.

356
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:23,090
So if they ban it in America, they'll

357
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:24,230
just go back to India, which is a

358
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:25,070
massive market anyway.

359
00:13:25,310 --> 00:13:26,610
But this is an interesting point.

360
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:30,550
Trump could use it as a bargaining chip.

361
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:31,330
He could use it.

362
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:34,910
But, again, the issue is these products, they

363
00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:36,710
come in and, you know, it's all very

364
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:38,750
– we have certain – we have odd

365
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:39,530
rules in America.

366
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:41,570
But if it's under a certain amount, it

367
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:43,110
just kind of flies through customs.

368
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:46,650
It flies through, and there's no tariffs, and

369
00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:47,430
they don't look at it.

370
00:13:47,490 --> 00:13:48,930
And so all this stuff under – I

371
00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:50,690
don't know what – it's something like $50

372
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:51,510
or $100.

373
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:54,690
Anything under that just shifts right through, and

374
00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:56,770
they're dropshipping this stuff, and it's coming in

375
00:13:56,770 --> 00:13:57,590
very quickly.

376
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:01,310
And that's actually a problem, although we don't

377
00:14:01,310 --> 00:14:03,170
make any of this crap in America.

378
00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:05,390
And it is purely crap, all of it's

379
00:14:05,390 --> 00:14:05,690
crap.

380
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:08,450
That's our biggest problem in the United States.

381
00:14:08,530 --> 00:14:09,290
We buy crap.

382
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:10,630
We're addicted to crap.

383
00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:12,570
Yeah, the iPhone, I agree.

384
00:14:15,810 --> 00:14:16,990
That's more than $100.

385
00:14:16,990 --> 00:14:21,470
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

386
00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:24,610
But, Sam, I am glad you are here,

387
00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:25,050
my friend.

388
00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:26,370
When is the last time we had you

389
00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:26,530
on?

390
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:28,190
It's been at least two years, maybe?

391
00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:30,890
No, thankfully, about a year.

392
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:33,370
But, no, I think at the beginning of

393
00:14:33,370 --> 00:14:34,270
last year, yeah.

394
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:38,230
True Fans is, I find, a very exciting

395
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:41,970
project because it flows with something that I've

396
00:14:41,970 --> 00:14:42,790
been talking about.

397
00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:44,230
Obviously, I like it.

398
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,510
You're doing something different than a typical podcast

399
00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:48,970
app.

400
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:50,630
Trying.

401
00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:51,890
You're trying, yeah.

402
00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:55,430
The thing that I would like to hear

403
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:58,110
from you, just to get us started, do

404
00:14:58,110 --> 00:15:00,730
you have a positioning statement of what True

405
00:15:00,730 --> 00:15:01,590
Fans is?

406
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:03,550
Yeah, I do.

407
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:08,090
It's RSS Marketplace to help creators monetize their

408
00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:10,010
content and connect with their fans.

409
00:15:10,630 --> 00:15:11,170
Hmm.

410
00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:14,870
RSS Marketplace, I like that.

411
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,960
I don't know if, as you would say,

412
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:23,520
Joe Punter would know exactly what an RSS

413
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,600
Marketplace is.

414
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,320
No, and I probably haven't got that messaging

415
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:27,760
right.

416
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:29,920
But you know where I am in the

417
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,820
cycle right now, which is talking to VCs.

418
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,680
And that's the message that I'm resonating with

419
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,480
them because I have to play VC bingo,

420
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:38,980
right?

421
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,020
So Marketplace is the word they want to

422
00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:42,440
hear.

423
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,780
Bitcoin's another word they want to hear.

424
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,220
Oh, they do.

425
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:47,860
They want to hear Bitcoin?

426
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,700
They like that?

427
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,220
They like that, the VC guys?

428
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,500
Suddenly Trump, Elon Musk, and everyone else is

429
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:54,540
talking about it.

430
00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:57,220
You're suddenly hearing a lot of mainstream media,

431
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:59,040
even made the 10 o'clock news here

432
00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:59,560
in the UK.

433
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:02,200
So now everyone's going, oh, yeah, you know

434
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,480
that thing we didn't like a couple of

435
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:03,880
years ago?

436
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:04,720
Now we like it.

437
00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:05,920
We love it now, yeah.

438
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,600
Because when I think of TrueFans and marketing

439
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,800
position, and Marketplace is a good word, it

440
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,460
feels to me like if you could tell

441
00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:20,100
people that this is where you can build

442
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:20,940
your fan base.

443
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,580
I mean, it's in the name already, right?

444
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,160
TrueFans has a bit of that OnlyFans vibe

445
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,920
to it, which that just sticks in the

446
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,420
back of your head without you even really

447
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:29,980
knowing it.

448
00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:33,560
But that's kind of what you're doing because

449
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,780
you have, besides podcast feeds, you have all

450
00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:42,900
kinds of extra bits and bobs you've built

451
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:43,580
around it.

452
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:45,020
Can you just go through the list?

453
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:46,320
Yes.

454
00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:49,000
I mean, the ones that are related directly

455
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,720
to podcasting, pod rolls, publisher feeds, but we

456
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,600
added blogging.

457
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:59,200
We added events, ticketing, secure RSS, audio books,

458
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:00,320
music.

459
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,359
We're talking to a film company at the

460
00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:03,700
moment.

461
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:09,000
Your idea that you came with about three

462
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,440
or four weeks before Christmas about the Rachel

463
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:17,400
Maddow portal, we were moving slowly towards that

464
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,520
by adding all these other things around it.

465
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:22,540
It's the original thing that Mike Homer at

466
00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:25,460
Netscape created, which was the Netscape portal using

467
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:27,000
RSS as the means for delivery.

468
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:28,320
I remember it well, yeah.

469
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,720
So we're going full circle, and I think

470
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,680
that that's the bit that we're trying to

471
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,180
get to.

472
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,500
And I think if we can connect all

473
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,380
the parts, create customized domains, allow a bit

474
00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:43,020
more creator customization of the platform, we could,

475
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,120
and I'm saying with a big question mark,

476
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,380
create portals for creators that drive traffic from

477
00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:53,220
their fan base to their page.

478
00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:55,780
And it doesn't, as you said, look like

479
00:17:55,780 --> 00:17:56,940
true fans on every page.

480
00:17:56,940 --> 00:17:59,920
I look, that's probably six months out, but

481
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,960
that's the direction I think we're heading in

482
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,260
anyway.

483
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:02,900
Yeah.

484
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,200
Instinctively, that feels right to me.

485
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:06,620
Yeah.

486
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,260
The interesting thing, one of the reasons I

487
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:12,940
wanted to get you in the boardroom quick,

488
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,060
Sam, is because- Because it's dry January

489
00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:19,020
and he's not drinking, so he would actually

490
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:19,680
be useful.

491
00:18:20,420 --> 00:18:20,860
Yes.

492
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,640
We've got 12 days left to get good

493
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:26,280
stuff out of Sam.

494
00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:30,280
Like, you know, James is the radio futurologist,

495
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:33,020
but you're like the radio, like I really

496
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:34,840
did it recently-ologist.

497
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,440
You're probably the only person I know that

498
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,920
has this convergence of like recent experience running

499
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,160
a hyper-local radio station that was heavy

500
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,680
in podcast distribution and now you're running a

501
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:50,520
podcast app.

502
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:54,380
I mean, you've seen every side of this

503
00:18:54,380 --> 00:18:58,800
thing with the recent radio experience sort of

504
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,120
as icing on top.

505
00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:03,240
And I think the thing that like, as

506
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,440
I'm hearing you talk and as we've been

507
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,600
talking the last few weeks and then when

508
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,460
we started the Godcaster stuff, it's sort of

509
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:12,620
like, it's kind of like crystallized a lot

510
00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:17,540
of stuff in my head where the issue

511
00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:19,740
with, and I think this is related to

512
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:22,100
what Adam was talking about with the Rachel

513
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:26,780
Maddow page, is that the problem, one of

514
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:29,040
the problems with podcasting is that I think

515
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,020
in the mind of the public, of people

516
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:32,400
who are aware of it, it just seems

517
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,140
like a big cloud of content.

518
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,780
It doesn't seem like, when you say radio

519
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:43,600
or television, people know you get a, you

520
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,940
form a distinct picture in your head.

521
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,460
When you say podcasting, you don't, it just

522
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:54,240
seems sort of like a fog of all

523
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,660
this content that you have to go search

524
00:19:57,660 --> 00:19:58,540
out somewhere.

525
00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:01,480
And while the statement, wherever you get your

526
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,300
podcast is a powerful statement because of what

527
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,020
it means.

528
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,260
It means it's distributed and decentralized.

529
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:14,640
It also means it's not one particular thing

530
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,100
in the way that radio is.

531
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,260
And so, you know, like if we, I

532
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:24,500
feel like this convergence of podcast and radio,

533
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:27,560
whether you can say like radio transitioning to

534
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,000
podcasting and podcasting trying to adopt what's good

535
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,240
about radio, to me that, I think you

536
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,980
could meet in the middle with something that's

537
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:38,080
a little more distinct.

538
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:39,900
Yeah.

539
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:43,800
Look, just as a quick recap, I mean,

540
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:46,160
River Radio was 40 live shows, one hour

541
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,320
long every week for two years.

542
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:52,460
They were then broadcast over FM, DAB, Alexa,

543
00:20:52,620 --> 00:20:54,420
web, mobile, but they were then turned into

544
00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:58,480
a podcast via Wooshka taking the Icecast server

545
00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,420
that we had to feed.

546
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:00,820
And that all worked very well.

547
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:01,660
We were just too early.

548
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,420
People didn't get what hyperlocal meant and they

549
00:21:04,420 --> 00:21:06,020
didn't understand what we were trying to achieve.

550
00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:07,980
We couldn't get the funding for it.

551
00:21:08,020 --> 00:21:09,780
And, you know, I couldn't sustain it.

552
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:13,560
But what I think with the closure, you

553
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,280
know, that you talked about last week of

554
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,860
local radio in the UK, I think there

555
00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:20,400
are a lot of people looking for, where

556
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,700
do I put my content?

557
00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:24,420
And I was trying to explain that the

558
00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:26,980
separation of content from delivery is what people

559
00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:28,080
have to get in their heads.

560
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:30,320
The content could be live or it could

561
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:30,960
be on demand.

562
00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:31,700
That's irrelevant.

563
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,000
The distribution could be DAB, you know, old

564
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,480
transmitters, very expensive, or it could be, you

565
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,900
know, through an Alexa.

566
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,660
But also now with Podcasting 2.0, it

567
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:45,240
can be lit.

568
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,540
And I think that's where people need to

569
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:49,860
understand what we're trying to do here with

570
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:52,280
Podcasting 2.0. And we need to get

571
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,580
case studies out there pretty quickly for people

572
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:55,700
to then jump on board.

573
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,140
Well, yeah, like live doesn't have to be

574
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,840
live, you know, it's kind of a stupid

575
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,160
thing to say, but I mean, a lot

576
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080
of live radio is not actually live.

577
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,040
Most of it is not anymore.

578
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:10,420
Yeah.

579
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:14,880
But you still have this thing that people

580
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,040
assume is, you still have the notion of

581
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:24,160
a live broadcast or a feed of information

582
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,400
that is coming to you.

583
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:27,500
Like you just, you have the concept of

584
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:28,220
tuning in.

585
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:29,880
Maybe that's a good way to say it.

586
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,260
You tune into the radio.

587
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,840
You don't really, while there's good things, while

588
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,340
there's great things about so-called on demand,

589
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:42,100
if everything is on demand, it becomes just

590
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,760
sort of like this fog of content.

591
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,380
And you don't, I think the powerful thing

592
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:53,540
about radio is that you have this thing

593
00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:54,540
that you go to.

594
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:58,940
And like that requires, I think it requires

595
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:02,440
making opinions for the platforms, like true fans,

596
00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:05,840
like you would say, okay, we're going to

597
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,620
host these particular shows or these particular podcasts

598
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:13,600
because they sort of have the qualities that

599
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,160
we want.

600
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,060
I mean, like they have live streams.

601
00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:17,940
We're going to choose to, we may have

602
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:20,300
other stuff, but we're going to emphasize these

603
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:24,500
because they are like, they create the experience

604
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:26,100
we want our customers to have.

605
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,340
Maybe, is that fair?

606
00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:28,120
Yeah.

607
00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:29,720
I mean, we just don't have enough of

608
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,880
them yet to create a landing page.

609
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,580
But when we do, we will focus on

610
00:23:34,580 --> 00:23:34,740
it.

611
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,400
But yeah, I think people will understand very

612
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,740
quickly that there's a schedule around a podcast

613
00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:43,600
2.0 radio station.

614
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,140
You know, that's not a really catchy name,

615
00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:48,840
but the idea is there that people will

616
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,360
have a schedule.

617
00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,580
You will have a schedule of shows that

618
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:52,060
go out.

619
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,040
I will be able to see that schedule

620
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,260
and I'll be able to dip in and

621
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,040
dip out of your stream, which is live

622
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,460
24 seven or whatever you have it live

623
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:00,800
for.

624
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:05,280
Those shows may not be actually broadcast as

625
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,740
in live.

626
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,460
They may be recorded shows that you are

627
00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:10,400
pushing through in the schedule time slot.

628
00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:12,720
I'm going to give you a free resource,

629
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Sam.

630
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:18,120
For over 15 years, No Agenda has had

631
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,300
this live stream and it has a IRC

632
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,000
based chat room, which has been up for

633
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,180
just about as long.

634
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,620
And every single day there's a schedule, there's

635
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:33,660
a schedule manager, Sir Bemrose.

636
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,680
There are live shows.

637
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,760
There is enormous interaction, boosting interaction.

638
00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:44,580
There's all kinds of boost bots and leaderboards

639
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,460
and all kinds of things.

640
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,180
And it's a relatively small community, but there

641
00:24:50,180 --> 00:24:54,920
are at least several live shows per day.

642
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,780
And there's handovers like on Sunday, as an

643
00:24:58,780 --> 00:24:59,180
example.

644
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:02,480
From nine to 11 is this bluegrass show.

645
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,540
And then the bluegrass show hands over to

646
00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:07,180
the rock and roll pre-show and the

647
00:25:07,180 --> 00:25:08,900
rock and roll pre-show hands over to

648
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:09,980
the No Agenda show.

649
00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:12,140
And the No Agenda show hands over to

650
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:15,640
whatever is next, which for instance, last week

651
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,980
was Satellite Skirmish, which was a live music

652
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:22,040
bonanza, you know, Boobery and all these crazy

653
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,200
cats are putting that together.

654
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:28,060
And if you could take that community, which

655
00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:30,060
is just sitting there in an IRC chat,

656
00:25:30,380 --> 00:25:32,280
and you could give them an entirely new

657
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,760
interface, all the pieces are there.

658
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,660
And I'm sure that they'll be more than

659
00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:39,860
willing to work with you on building something

660
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:42,040
and really building out what you have because

661
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,100
they also, you know, they have merch, they

662
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,460
have concerts that they do.

663
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,760
So ticket, all this stuff, it's all there.

664
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,500
And it's just been sitting there for over

665
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:51,000
a decade.

666
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,440
I'm totally open to it.

667
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:55,640
I mean, you know, we build really fast.

668
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,360
We take any idea on board and we

669
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,400
try and develop it.

670
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,080
So what you've got there is a radio

671
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,760
station, right?

672
00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:03,080
Exactly.

673
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,160
You and I would know that.

674
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:07,900
The handover, we were all taught how to

675
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:10,340
hand over to the next presenter, there'd be

676
00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:11,880
a jingle, maybe there was a news at

677
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,960
the top of the hour, whatever.

678
00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:15,040
But we all know how to do it,

679
00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:16,260
or who've been in radio.

680
00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:18,200
That's all you've got there now, which is

681
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:18,440
brilliant.

682
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:24,440
Even on Fridays, I think it's two good

683
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,120
old boys, they're live, they stop at around

684
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,040
noon-ish.

685
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:29,920
You know, so we're not big on top

686
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,760
of the hours and hitting the news.

687
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,700
But then when they're done, they disconnect.

688
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,820
And if I'm not ready, which I usually

689
00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:41,600
am not, then some tracks start to play,

690
00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:43,560
value for value tracks.

691
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:47,400
And then I punch in around 12.20.

692
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,500
And then after we're done, Oisín Berga comes

693
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:51,800
in with Mutton & Mead music.

694
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,800
I mean, it is exactly what you're talking

695
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,180
about.

696
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,360
And the beauty of it is, this would

697
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,600
be a great way to get chat working,

698
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,760
because they're already there.

699
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,760
It's IRC-based, and there's a lot of

700
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,240
different ways you can incorporate that.

701
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:13,200
It's been so logical to me, and I'm

702
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:13,920
amazed by it.

703
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,680
I'm amazed that we have these handovers, that

704
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Darren disconnects, I reconnect.

705
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,660
I mean, it's really, every single Thursday and

706
00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:26,280
Sunday, I'm amazed at how awesome it really

707
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:26,680
is.

708
00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:28,300
I've never even met Darren.

709
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,740
You know, he's in Chicago somewhere.

710
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:35,900
And it's a really beautiful, beautiful ecosystem, which

711
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,040
is completely run by the community itself.

712
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:41,520
Yeah, I mean, look, we added a feature.

713
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,360
Look, we add too many features, but we

714
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,500
added a feature called Co-Listen, which was,

715
00:27:46,660 --> 00:27:48,860
as you listen to this show, and if

716
00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:51,320
anyone else was on True Fans listening, and

717
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,480
I was a follower, so we followed each

718
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,440
other as a social model, then your avatar

719
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,320
and my avatar would appear on the episode

720
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,620
page, so that I know that you're there.

721
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,080
So that was like a step one of

722
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,800
trying to make people aware that other people

723
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,480
were listening at the same time with them.

724
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:08,960
We need to develop that much further, and

725
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,520
that moves forward towards XMPP-based chat, fully

726
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:14,980
built in.

727
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:16,560
But, you know, again, that's just on the

728
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:16,760
roadmap.

729
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,720
We haven't got it yet.

730
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,540
I don't think it's really about, like, when

731
00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:23,920
you talk about radio, I don't really think

732
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,040
it's about saving the tech of radio, because,

733
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,540
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I think

734
00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:34,340
a lot of stations, radio stations wouldn't, they

735
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:36,540
would like to not have to run, you

736
00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:38,220
know, broadcast hours and that kind of thing,

737
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,060
but it's about saving the idea of what

738
00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:46,180
a station is as an independent sort of,

739
00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:47,360
like, distribution funnel.

740
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:48,720
But they already gave that up.

741
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,260
They gave it up when they dropped local

742
00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:50,840
programming.

743
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:52,360
They've given up what it is to be

744
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:52,900
a station.

745
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:58,960
Most broadcast organizations with transmitters are now just

746
00:28:58,960 --> 00:28:59,920
distribution.

747
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,380
That's what I'm saying.

748
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Like Sam's sort of concept of River Radio,

749
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:07,220
I think he's right.

750
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,000
I think he was too early, because unlike

751
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,440
newspaper, local newspaper.

752
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:17,380
Which are also falling quickly.

753
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,520
Well, I mean, they're gone.

754
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:21,200
I mean, they're basically just gone.

755
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,080
And the only ones left are the national

756
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:25,540
newspapers.

757
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,580
The local newspapers got, the internet came on

758
00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:36,060
board, came online, and we lost local newspapers

759
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:38,760
before people really even understood what was happening.

760
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,580
It was so fast.

761
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:43,120
And you turn around and you're like, oh,

762
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,460
wow.

763
00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:45,200
I mean, you know, I've told that story

764
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:45,580
before.

765
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,100
The Birmingham News built a gigantic, millions of

766
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:50,060
dollar facility.

767
00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:50,760
Yeah.

768
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,080
You know, in like 1995.

769
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,860
Neumann Mike's, yeah.

770
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,100
The whole thing.

771
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,140
And I mean, like within three years, they

772
00:29:58,140 --> 00:29:59,740
were out of that building and it had

773
00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:01,580
to sell it to an insurance company.

774
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:01,920
Yeah.

775
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,560
Because they were dead.

776
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,560
And so, like, it happened so fast.

777
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,480
But the radio thing has not, people say

778
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,340
radio is dying.

779
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,360
But if that's true, then it's been this

780
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,820
sort of slow, like, very glacial decline for

781
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:21,320
many, many years.

782
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:23,720
And so we've got all this, like we

783
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,400
can watch it happening and like adjust to

784
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,620
what is happening.

785
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:31,200
And so if there's a, you know, like

786
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,100
saving the idea of a station, I don't

787
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,860
think the idea of a station is necessarily

788
00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:35,420
dead.

789
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Because like river, like the river radio concept

790
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,200
to me, that is, it's almost like you

791
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,360
could spin that around.

792
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,960
Sam, you were running, you were running the

793
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,820
radio station and then chopping up those things

794
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:51,740
into podcasts.

795
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:54,480
You could almost do it in reverse, run

796
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,720
the podcast and then chop in, and then

797
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,000
synthesize it into a radio station, into a

798
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:00,440
podcast.

799
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Yeah, it could work both ways.

800
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Yeah, absolutely.

801
00:31:02,860 --> 00:31:05,260
Well, I'm just saying, Sam, there's a community

802
00:31:05,260 --> 00:31:05,820
there.

803
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,580
And it's, particularly if you're raising money and

804
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:11,060
you can show an active community actually living

805
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:14,420
out your dream and who are self-starters,

806
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:15,920
they're nut jobs.

807
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:18,520
And I say that with a lot of

808
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,180
love in my heart.

809
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,180
They do crazy things.

810
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:22,960
They are not afraid to experiment.

811
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:25,880
They're just sitting there waiting for you to

812
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,480
help them, man.

813
00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:29,940
The hardest thing for newcomers is understanding how

814
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:31,180
to register for IRC.

815
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:33,700
That's the hardest part of it.

816
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,440
But on any given Thursday or Sunday, we're

817
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,060
doing no agenda.

818
00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:39,600
There's thousands of people listening to the live

819
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:39,860
stream.

820
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:40,420
Thousands.

821
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:42,820
Thousands.

822
00:31:43,580 --> 00:31:45,040
I'll ping you after, Adam.

823
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:45,620
I promise.

824
00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:48,720
Yeah, no, hey, and I'm not the guy

825
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,240
running it.

826
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,280
I can just point you in the right

827
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:50,500
direction.

828
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,440
No, exactly.

829
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,300
That's what I'm saying.

830
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:53,860
To give me the right lead.

831
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:54,660
For sure.

832
00:31:56,380 --> 00:32:00,900
Yeah, I see, I see, we got a

833
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:06,540
local weather guy, James Spann, who, I think

834
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:10,320
he does radio weather for other markets as

835
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:10,580
well.

836
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,020
But he's based here.

837
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:15,240
He's on the, does weather on the television

838
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,700
here.

839
00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:19,220
And he's really sort of done this hyper

840
00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:23,620
-local thing so well because they do a

841
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:24,300
podcast.

842
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:31,960
He does two, two forecasts each day, one

843
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,000
in the morning at like 5.30 a

844
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,520
.m. and another one at like 3 o

845
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,960
'clock p.m. And it's all based on

846
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,340
just the weather in Alabama.

847
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:44,480
And like it's, he still has this radio

848
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,580
and television presence.

849
00:32:46,220 --> 00:32:50,920
But it's, it's really his sort of hyper

850
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,320
-local brand.

851
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,080
And it's so different than like the algo

852
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:55,680
chasers.

853
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:59,100
You see, like that term you used, Adam,

854
00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:02,340
you still see, if you go on TikTok,

855
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,920
we have a winter storm.

856
00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:08,780
We have some weather coming up probably Tuesday

857
00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:09,440
of next week.

858
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,020
Breaking news, they've got weather.

859
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,920
Yeah, you know, snow is a big deal

860
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:15,380
in Alabama.

861
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,380
It shuts everything down.

862
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:18,760
It's a big deal in Texas if they

863
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,120
get snow.

864
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,640
Yes, exactly.

865
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,260
And so we've got something coming through probably

866
00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:24,080
Tuesday or Wednesday.

867
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,940
And every time this happens, the Twitter TikTok

868
00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:32,940
people just start going nuts, wanting to do

869
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:33,600
click bait.

870
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:36,160
The Southeast is going to be shut down.

871
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:37,520
It's going to be, you know, not as

872
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240
they just go nuts trying to get clicks.

873
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,180
And, and then, you know, there you have

874
00:33:43,180 --> 00:33:45,460
James Spann saying, hey, hold on, that's not

875
00:33:45,460 --> 00:33:45,860
accurate.

876
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,240
You know, here's the actual models.

877
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,120
Here's what we know.

878
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,120
And it's like this, this calm, you know,

879
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:55,200
explanation of what the actual data looks like.

880
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,660
And we don't know this and we don't

881
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:56,960
know that.

882
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,540
And it's, it's like, for that reason, he's

883
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:03,720
become this trusted voice here in Alabama.

884
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,840
I mean, everybody listens to this guy and

885
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,100
nobody pays attention to any of the TikTok

886
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:10,159
weather nonsense.

887
00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:13,699
And that to me, that's like, that's using

888
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:18,659
the power of like a radio, um, presence

889
00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:21,940
or a trusted voice, but then taking it

890
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:25,280
over and just plugging it in, uh, to

891
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,520
the, to the podcast world and digital.

892
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,500
Uh, I just see there's just so much

893
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:34,340
that I think people just, they've, they've written

894
00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:36,040
off a lot of people written off radio,

895
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:39,940
but if we don't stop and watch, uh,

896
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520
I think we're really going to regret that.

897
00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:44,360
And I'm talking about when I say we,

898
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,920
I mean, people in podcast tech also podcasters

899
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,580
themselves.

900
00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:52,300
I think we're really going to have to

901
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:55,239
pay some attention to radio and, and figure

902
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,760
out what they were doing, right.

903
00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:00,600
Because otherwise, um, you know, we're going to

904
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,060
turn around radio and broadcast televisions, perhaps like

905
00:35:05,060 --> 00:35:07,780
it's perhaps the last industry that's not fully

906
00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:09,140
captured by Silicon Valley.

907
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,340
Those two industries are good point.

908
00:35:12,020 --> 00:35:14,840
We just can't see that ground to the

909
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,440
major platforms who are then going to turn

910
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,240
around and dictate financial terms and content terms

911
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,140
based on their own financial needs.

912
00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:23,560
You know, Sam, you and you and James

913
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,020
talked about this on the show on your

914
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:27,580
show, Spotify with the music podcast.

915
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,260
They're like, we don't care if you have,

916
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,440
if it's your own music, if you have

917
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,740
a license for it, you can't put it

918
00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:35,200
in a podcast or we're going to take

919
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,060
it down off our platform.

920
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,500
And that's purely just because they don't want

921
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,420
you to compete with the spot, with their

922
00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:41,720
Spotify music service.

923
00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:43,000
Completely.

924
00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:43,980
Yeah.

925
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,320
But I'd say a couple of things.

926
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:46,600
Okay.

927
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,320
So I'm helping you.

928
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,340
We need to boost scram live just before

929
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:50,740
Christmas.

930
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:53,660
He met up with Mike Hamilton from a

931
00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:57,820
rogue network and my James connecting me with

932
00:35:57,820 --> 00:36:00,500
him and I'm helping him put a live

933
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:01,120
server together.

934
00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:03,740
Now we went to rss.com.

935
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,040
We went, we spoke to Alberto.

936
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,280
Um, they've got all of the lit support

937
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,460
built into RSS.

938
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,780
But they haven't got an HLS server and

939
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:15,100
that's a little bit frustrating.

940
00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:16,640
So we're having to find a third party

941
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,460
to get that put the URL in and

942
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:20,380
then make it all work.

943
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,280
Um, you look at, uh, Russell Harrell, he's

944
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,280
got his own radio station.

945
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:28,180
He's got a hosting company pod too, but

946
00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:30,640
they broadcast radio station over the web, but

947
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,460
not over HLS.

948
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:32,340
They don't do it live.

949
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:34,360
I'm trying to get him to put an

950
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,240
HLS server in.

951
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:36,740
We haven't seen.

952
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,520
Is HLS necessary?

953
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:41,440
I'm not, I'm not making the connection.

954
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:44,200
no, you need a server.

955
00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:46,080
You can have a shout cast, ice cast

956
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:46,600
HLS.

957
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,620
It doesn't really matter which one you choose.

958
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,820
Um, you need something if you want to

959
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:53,820
put lit live, um, to broadcast with.

960
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:54,060
Right.

961
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,360
And so, um, we're just trying to find

962
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,560
what I would, I was hoping for was,

963
00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:01,700
uh, cause blueberry talked about it for a

964
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:02,020
little while.

965
00:37:02,060 --> 00:37:05,000
Todd about having time sharing on an HLS

966
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,740
server that they would have, uh, RSS.com

967
00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:09,980
after the, the Mexico event last year or

968
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:11,200
the year before said they were going to

969
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,700
go and have an HLS service for their

970
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,920
customer base where you would pay for a

971
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,480
premium to pay and go live.

972
00:37:18,620 --> 00:37:20,040
And I think the problem is none of

973
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,620
that's happened.

974
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:21,000
Right.

975
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,080
And this week sub stack of announced, they're

976
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,920
bringing out their live capability.

977
00:37:26,580 --> 00:37:28,720
James and I are guessing, but with a

978
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,280
strong hint that Spotify having got events tickets

979
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,820
and had green room.

980
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,440
Well then go to live.

981
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,560
That's the next logical step for them to

982
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,180
go and put, uh, Oh, you want to

983
00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:41,140
go and see, um, Taylor Swift.

984
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,360
Oh, tickets are all sold out.

985
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:42,860
Don't worry.

986
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,420
Come to Spotify, get a ticket, watch it

987
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:46,400
through our platform.

988
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:48,260
Is the HLS.

989
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,100
Is that necessary because of video?

990
00:37:51,140 --> 00:37:52,040
Only if you want video.

991
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:52,220
Yeah.

992
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:52,400
Yeah.

993
00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:52,940
So, okay.

994
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,780
Because see, see, I think when we're talking,

995
00:37:55,180 --> 00:37:56,800
because you know, you, I think we have

996
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,020
to be careful, um, because I use ice

997
00:38:00,020 --> 00:38:03,060
cast, uh, everywhere and it works just fine.

998
00:38:03,340 --> 00:38:06,080
And it's, uh, and the complexity of video

999
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,000
is enormous.

1000
00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:10,540
HLS is good for audio as well.

1001
00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:12,000
And the BBC use it.

1002
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,300
And one of the values in using HLS

1003
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,620
is you can rewind live shows.

1004
00:38:16,740 --> 00:38:18,440
So if I wanted to go back now,

1005
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,760
if you were using HLS and listen to

1006
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,740
what David just said 10 minutes ago, I

1007
00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:25,880
can rewind the live stream, listen to it

1008
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,000
and then go and catch up to the

1009
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,540
show in live as well.

1010
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:30,900
Okay.

1011
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:33,820
Well, I can tell you what's working for

1012
00:38:33,820 --> 00:38:34,020
me.

1013
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,320
Uh, I started a hyper local radio station.

1014
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,260
We live in Fredericksburg, Texas, 12,000 people.

1015
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:42,220
It's called hello, Fred, hello, Fred.

1016
00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:42,520
Dot.

1017
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:42,800
Fm.

1018
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,980
And I've chosen in this case to, to

1019
00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:47,400
compete with Caleb.

1020
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:52,480
Uh, Caleb is the largest Christian contemporary Christian

1021
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,180
music, uh, radio station.

1022
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:56,040
They have radio stations everywhere and they have

1023
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,600
a live stream.

1024
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,400
And I don't know the exact numbers, but

1025
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,220
I'm pretty sure most people listen to it

1026
00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:01,020
on the live stream.

1027
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,840
Uh, but older demographic, which they also, which

1028
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,520
I definitely speak to, I'm sure still listen

1029
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,100
to the radio.

1030
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,280
And so I just play music.

1031
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,520
I have, you know, $300 piece of software.

1032
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,520
It's what every radio station uses and I

1033
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,260
schedule it.

1034
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,320
And now luckily I understand these things.

1035
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,860
So I had a relatively short ramp up

1036
00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:22,020
to getting it all running.

1037
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,840
And in it, I promote podcasts that are

1038
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,240
local and it's been working so well.

1039
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,060
Sam, that I just got an email from

1040
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:32,460
one of the local high schools.

1041
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,080
They're like, Hey, uh, we want to start

1042
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,040
some podcasts here for our students.

1043
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,120
Can we get on your platform?

1044
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:41,900
And that's their words that they use.

1045
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:44,800
And so I'm like, yeah, and I will

1046
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,700
promote their podcasts and point people back to

1047
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:48,900
hello.

1048
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,180
Fred.

1049
00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:49,480
Dot.

1050
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:49,800
Fm.

1051
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,820
So they can then go and listen to

1052
00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:52,320
the podcast.

1053
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,720
So you have this continuous stream that you

1054
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,040
can needle drop in whenever you want and

1055
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,700
you'll hear, Oh, there's something new going on.

1056
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,760
Oh, you know, and someone, I know that

1057
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:01,960
someone else is going to show up and

1058
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,500
say, Hey, I've got the city council stuff.

1059
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:04,920
Can I do a podcast about the city

1060
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,320
council?

1061
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,200
That's the, that is the type of community

1062
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400
based stuff that I think is, is the

1063
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:10,780
future.

1064
00:40:11,420 --> 00:40:13,340
And it's much more bottom up than it

1065
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:14,140
is top down.

1066
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:15,600
Yeah.

1067
00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:17,780
I mean, we, we, we worked with local

1068
00:40:17,780 --> 00:40:18,080
schools.

1069
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,200
We had 19 year olds and 16 year

1070
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,240
olds as training presenters.

1071
00:40:22,780 --> 00:40:25,400
Um, we created every show.

1072
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,160
So we had the politics show for the

1073
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,800
area was called politically correct.

1074
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:31,560
Um, you know, and we just tried to

1075
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,260
make the names of the shows to Dave's

1076
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:34,400
point, a bit of fun.

1077
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,180
They were easily or hoped they were easily

1078
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:38,220
branded and memorable.

1079
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,280
Um, and so, yeah, it all works.

1080
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,660
Adam, it all works.

1081
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,180
You know, it works, Dave, you know, it

1082
00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:44,460
works.

1083
00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:48,760
It's just when somebody says radio still their

1084
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,060
expectation is car radio or turning on their

1085
00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:53,460
Alexa.

1086
00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:54,080
Right.

1087
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,480
I think that's still a weird expectation.

1088
00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:59,120
I remember when we were where the mobile

1089
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,000
only, and I'd say, Oh, I've got a

1090
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:01,580
radio station.

1091
00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:03,400
And people go, Oh, what's your frequency?

1092
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,620
And I go, no, no, no, we haven't

1093
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:05,320
got a frequency.

1094
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,060
that may be a little, I think the

1095
00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:09,740
UK has a, a different type of, um,

1096
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,080
radio culture.

1097
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,360
But I think here in the U S

1098
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,220
it's all streaming.

1099
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:16,140
Everybody listens to streaming.

1100
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:17,020
Right.

1101
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:17,760
I mean, sure.

1102
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,580
It's just, they're all just listening to, Oh,

1103
00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:21,020
screaming, listening to streaming.

1104
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,460
Um, so they, you know, and I see

1105
00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:26,860
that with Caleb's like, Oh yeah, I listened

1106
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:27,180
to Caleb.

1107
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:27,860
How do you listen?

1108
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,980
Well, I, I listened on my app and

1109
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:33,360
I connected in my car and I, and

1110
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,700
we know that the automobile manufacturers, even Tesla's

1111
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:39,180
kind of given up, just connect your iPhone.

1112
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,000
Yeah.

1113
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,220
That's what everybody's doing.

1114
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,820
That's that's where it's at.

1115
00:41:42,860 --> 00:41:44,500
And that's how people listen to the thing.

1116
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,940
And if it's not now, it'll be that

1117
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:47,500
way in two years, five years.

1118
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:48,680
I mean, we might as well work ahead

1119
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:49,300
for the future.

1120
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:52,060
Um, but I'm just happy that you, that

1121
00:41:52,060 --> 00:41:53,040
you have that mindset.

1122
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,500
And as Dave and I discussed, Apple are

1123
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:01,380
crazy not to support the, the lit tag.

1124
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:03,000
This is so obvious.

1125
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,680
It's such, it's such an obvious thing for

1126
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,480
them to support.

1127
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,240
Uh, because every single rate, there's not a

1128
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,440
single radio station, maybe in the world that

1129
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,400
doesn't have a stream.

1130
00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:14,420
They all have.

1131
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,500
It's actually, it's actually easier to support that

1132
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,460
tag than it is to support a standard

1133
00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:20,440
enclosure tag.

1134
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,500
I mean, a standard item tag, because you

1135
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:24,540
don't, you don't, there's no expectation of a

1136
00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:25,020
download.

1137
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:27,080
It's purely a stream.

1138
00:42:27,740 --> 00:42:28,780
Even crazier.

1139
00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:31,480
HLS was invented by Apple.

1140
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:32,240
By Apple.

1141
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:32,740
Yes.

1142
00:42:33,060 --> 00:42:34,620
This always drives me nuts.

1143
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,280
Yeah.

1144
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:36,740
Yeah.

1145
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,920
You know, the, like the, uh, per item

1146
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,780
episode art, Apple had it from day one

1147
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:46,380
in their spec, but never implemented until what

1148
00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:47,260
a couple of years ago.

1149
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,080
Yeah.

1150
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,320
Yeah.

1151
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:50,940
I don't know what's going on at Apple.

1152
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,140
I, I call them, you know, missing in

1153
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:53,480
action.

1154
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,300
I mean, I'm waiting for the one feature

1155
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:57,840
that we get this year from Apple.

1156
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,440
Cause it's only one feature a year and

1157
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:00,280
I don't know what it will be.

1158
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,780
Hopefully it's lit, but I don't know what

1159
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:04,760
they're doing.

1160
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,620
They are seeding the market to YouTube and

1161
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:09,420
Spotify.

1162
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,260
They have video capability.

1163
00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:13,680
They just don't talk about it.

1164
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,460
They have HLS.

1165
00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:15,660
They don't talk about it.

1166
00:43:16,140 --> 00:43:18,600
You know, everything they have, they have ready.

1167
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:19,960
They just don't do it.

1168
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:20,860
And I don't know why.

1169
00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:23,620
Well, it sounds like what you're, it sounds

1170
00:43:23,620 --> 00:43:24,540
like what you're saying.

1171
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:27,420
And, and I, I think you're right.

1172
00:43:27,540 --> 00:43:31,360
That's that, that 2025, it can be the

1173
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,620
year of, of live, of, of lit in

1174
00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:36,500
the podcast world.

1175
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,960
I agree with that so much.

1176
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,940
And it sounds like what you're saying is

1177
00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:41,280
that.

1178
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:45,420
We can make that happen just by pushing

1179
00:43:45,420 --> 00:43:46,640
the same way.

1180
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:48,540
This always has to happen just by pushing

1181
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:50,640
the content we have to get.

1182
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,560
If, if you get some credit, some sort

1183
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,340
of, some level of critical mass of the

1184
00:43:57,340 --> 00:44:01,620
people of hosting companies, supporting the live stream

1185
00:44:01,620 --> 00:44:04,200
and hosting companies, that could be, it could

1186
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,040
be pure podcast hosting companies, or it could

1187
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,820
be like pod two.

1188
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,360
That's a high sort of a hybrid hosting

1189
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,280
company and radio company.

1190
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,100
If you, if we get some, you know,

1191
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,800
critical mass of that out there, then the

1192
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,740
apps will begin to feature it and pick

1193
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:22,200
it up.

1194
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,860
Is that sort of your strategy?

1195
00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:25,700
Yeah.

1196
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,860
I mean, look, DRM one does what you

1197
00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:28,400
were saying.

1198
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,920
They take podcasts and they aggregate those podcasts

1199
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,000
into a schedule and then broadcast them over

1200
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:35,380
the web.

1201
00:44:35,940 --> 00:44:37,840
And as I keep saying to Russell, go

1202
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,440
HLS, go that extra step, or it doesn't

1203
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,060
have to be HLS, go Shoutcast, go Icecast,

1204
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,960
whatever you want to do, but go lit,

1205
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:44,600
right.

1206
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,360
And as another means of distribution.

1207
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,360
And again, I'll go back to Alberto and

1208
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,520
Ben at rss.com.

1209
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,560
You know, they've made it really good that

1210
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,360
all the fields for lit are available and

1211
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,500
you just press go live, but it's still

1212
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:02,640
confusing to an average user.

1213
00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:06,220
Where do I get the Shoutcast, Icecast or

1214
00:45:06,220 --> 00:45:07,120
HLS URL?

1215
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,560
Where do I find that bit?

1216
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:11,800
And it's, it's they've basically written that you

1217
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,840
go to a third party, get this URL,

1218
00:45:14,220 --> 00:45:15,780
plug it into this field and then press.

1219
00:45:15,940 --> 00:45:18,420
No, it's got to be literally brought the

1220
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:20,500
bit like StreamYard.

1221
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,760
You know, we didn't have to understand if

1222
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,060
you were in StreamYard, I want to go

1223
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:26,360
on to LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter.

1224
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,380
What do I do?

1225
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:29,580
I just press those buttons, go live and

1226
00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:30,900
magically it all happened.

1227
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,300
We've got to make lit that easy.

1228
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,240
That's a good point.

1229
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,640
That's a very fair point.

1230
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,900
Well, we're doing our part with the Godcaster

1231
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:41,180
thing of giving, you know, every station that

1232
00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:41,880
comes on board.

1233
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:43,780
Also we push it back.

1234
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:45,640
We push their live stream back out as

1235
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,380
a live item.

1236
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,920
And so all those feeds, all the station

1237
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,740
feeds will have them.

1238
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,880
So that's, you know, that's going to be

1239
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,520
a bunch of fees, but then it feels

1240
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:58,320
like if a company like maybe, uh, uh,

1241
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,580
Blueberry could put that into maybe, uh, PowerPress,

1242
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,220
PowerPress had the ability, I think it already

1243
00:46:06,220 --> 00:46:08,060
has the live tag, but if it had

1244
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:09,480
to be able to do what you're talking

1245
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,040
about, where you just like click a button

1246
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,700
and it goes into a time and it

1247
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:17,700
just spins up a time shared shoutcast server,

1248
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,880
like, like a one click or two click

1249
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,180
process, that would be amazing.

1250
00:46:23,820 --> 00:46:25,160
Todd talked about doing that.

1251
00:46:25,420 --> 00:46:27,440
And I was really excited.

1252
00:46:27,660 --> 00:46:30,160
This was at the beginning of 2024 and

1253
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,140
it was all going to happen.

1254
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:32,720
And then nothing happened.

1255
00:46:33,020 --> 00:46:34,720
And I, I don't know whether that was

1256
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:35,420
your fault.

1257
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,060
It's your fault.

1258
00:46:36,180 --> 00:46:36,740
It's your fault.

1259
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,840
It's your fault, but you know, it could

1260
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,660
be no demand.

1261
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,300
I mean, maybe he did do it and

1262
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:45,380
you know, nobody actually wanted it or, um,

1263
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:46,120
he didn't do it.

1264
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,980
So that it was simplistic enough for people

1265
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:48,540
to understand.

1266
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:49,160
I don't know.

1267
00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:50,960
I don't think it would.

1268
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,420
Am I crazy here?

1269
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:54,520
It wouldn't cost a lot of money, right?

1270
00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:55,660
I mean, shoutcast.

1271
00:46:56,020 --> 00:46:58,180
I mean, clearly there is a bandwidth issue

1272
00:46:58,180 --> 00:47:00,960
at some point of scale, but, but at

1273
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,440
a small, if you're, um, you know, talking

1274
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,740
about like rss.com, they, they've, if, you

1275
00:47:09,740 --> 00:47:14,080
know, if, if you had 50 of your

1276
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,860
users that were 25 to 50 that were

1277
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:19,220
going live or trying to experiment with it

1278
00:47:19,220 --> 00:47:21,480
at any one point in time, that doesn't

1279
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,180
at, at speech level bit rates, it doesn't

1280
00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:28,140
seem that bandwidth intensive to me.

1281
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,500
Maybe I'm crazy.

1282
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,100
Just make it a premium service.

1283
00:47:31,380 --> 00:47:33,960
Charlie, like pod home offers it.

1284
00:47:34,020 --> 00:47:36,180
Pod home offers, uh, lit.

1285
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:37,560
That's true.

1286
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:37,800
Yeah.

1287
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,340
I forget about that.

1288
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:39,980
They offer that as a built in feature.

1289
00:47:40,060 --> 00:47:42,840
I know, uh, I think Dovey does.

1290
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:46,780
It may not be, uh, a, a click

1291
00:47:46,780 --> 00:47:51,840
plug and play type, um, feature, but I

1292
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,820
mean, he's been intimately involved in all these

1293
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:54,180
things.

1294
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,460
The knowledge is definitely out there.

1295
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:58,900
Certainly, uh, Dovey does has done all the

1296
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:01,200
video stuff and the life switching of wallets,

1297
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:01,660
et cetera.

1298
00:48:01,780 --> 00:48:03,120
But if I look at pod home.

1299
00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:05,320
FM is right there, it's under features.

1300
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,120
It says, stream your podcast live, live podcasting,

1301
00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:11,360
go live, uh, use our streaming server.

1302
00:48:11,420 --> 00:48:12,500
We can, uh, ice cast.

1303
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:14,020
We can record your live session.

1304
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,940
We can play pre-recorded audio as a

1305
00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:18,920
live session schedule, live episodes, and more dot,

1306
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:19,420
dot, dot.

1307
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,540
So it's starting, it's starting, it's getting there.

1308
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,400
I think just like everything else, we're going

1309
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,820
to have to, we had, we just have

1310
00:48:28,820 --> 00:48:30,220
to get, you have to start at the

1311
00:48:30,220 --> 00:48:31,000
content side.

1312
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:35,140
I think when you guys, when you guys

1313
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:38,040
go more public with what you're doing and

1314
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,000
people can use you as a case study,

1315
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:42,360
I think then people will start to look

1316
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:43,760
at how did they do it.

1317
00:48:43,860 --> 00:48:46,220
Then, you know, that's going to like all

1318
00:48:46,220 --> 00:48:48,340
these things like booster ground ball was a

1319
00:48:48,340 --> 00:48:48,940
case study.

1320
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:51,380
I think we just get these case studies

1321
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:51,640
out.

1322
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:54,160
Then people can start to see, ah, that's

1323
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:54,500
how I do.

1324
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,640
I go to these people.

1325
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,160
I do this thing and it just works.

1326
00:48:59,780 --> 00:49:00,340
That makes sense.

1327
00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:00,520
Yeah.

1328
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,600
Switching gears real quick.

1329
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:05,380
What Spotify open access.

1330
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,080
So this, do we know, do we know

1331
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,700
if this is an open source?

1332
00:49:14,020 --> 00:49:15,300
Did, am I crazy?

1333
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,820
Am I misremembering that they open source to

1334
00:49:17,820 --> 00:49:18,200
this?

1335
00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:22,740
I'm not aware of it, but they may

1336
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:24,260
have done somebody in the boardroom.

1337
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:24,440
Okay.

1338
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:26,100
Do you mean the OAuth part?

1339
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:27,040
Yeah.

1340
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:27,800
The OAuth part.

1341
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,280
I thought they released a spec for this,

1342
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:33,400
you know, in the real have a spec

1343
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,780
for their own platform for people to integrate.

1344
00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:38,140
But I don't know whether it's open source

1345
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:40,900
as in somebody could take Spotify open access

1346
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:42,660
and reuse that on their own platform.

1347
00:49:42,940 --> 00:49:43,660
I doubt it.

1348
00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:46,640
Cause if it's just OAuth, like Nathan in

1349
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,660
the boardroom saying that it's just OAuth, but

1350
00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:49,540
it's not open source.

1351
00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:52,120
I mean, if it's just a, an OAuth

1352
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,680
thing, it feels like that could be sort

1353
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:57,720
of reverse engineered.

1354
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,380
What I'm getting at is, you know, Russell's

1355
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:06,760
been doing the work on L402 with, with

1356
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,220
lightning and Fiat and you've, and secure RSS,

1357
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,480
you've, you've been collaborating with him on that.

1358
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:18,660
And it feels like at this point, if

1359
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:22,380
we don't, rather than reinventing the wheel, if

1360
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:28,100
Spotify has this OAuth spec of how to

1361
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:31,560
do this, then we could write reverse engineer

1362
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,600
that, write it up into an, into an

1363
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,240
actual open spec, not re-implement something from

1364
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,000
scratch, write it up into an open spec

1365
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,320
and then other apps could use the same

1366
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:42,920
tech.

1367
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:43,380
Right?

1368
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,660
Yeah, completely.

1369
00:50:44,820 --> 00:50:46,380
I mean, look, I've been trying to push

1370
00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:49,460
for the verified tag for two plus years

1371
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:51,040
as an app.

1372
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,820
When you come to Truefans, what I need

1373
00:50:53,820 --> 00:50:55,900
the creators to do is to verify ownership

1374
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:58,400
and then they can access the dashboard and

1375
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,980
any other features we want to then build

1376
00:50:59,980 --> 00:51:00,500
into it.

1377
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,240
We can't do that because the emails, nine

1378
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,620
times out of 10 have now been removed.

1379
00:51:05,780 --> 00:51:08,280
And most users don't want to click a

1380
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,820
button, wait, wait, wait for popping, then try

1381
00:51:11,820 --> 00:51:12,460
again, try again.

1382
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:13,380
Oh, and now it's there.

1383
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,380
Oh, by that time they're bored, they've moved

1384
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:17,320
on, they've gone, something else has caught their

1385
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:17,720
attention.

1386
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,820
So, you know, and we tried to put

1387
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:22,860
in the TXT field because Apple had it

1388
00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:24,640
and that hasn't worked.

1389
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,540
And so, yeah, when I talked about it

1390
00:51:27,540 --> 00:51:29,220
this week on pod news weekly, it was

1391
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:34,380
like Spotify creating an ecosystem around getting content

1392
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:35,560
in from other platforms.

1393
00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:38,440
And then they're aggregating that around their platform.

1394
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:42,880
We could do something similar where hosts and

1395
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,180
apps in the podcasting ecosystem could partner, but

1396
00:51:46,180 --> 00:51:46,980
we don't have that.

1397
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:48,780
For some reason, we still don't have that.

1398
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,440
Yes, we do a lot of things together.

1399
00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:51,760
And I think, you know, you've called it

1400
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,060
co-op petition in the past and that's

1401
00:51:53,060 --> 00:51:56,880
fine, but we don't have that deeper integration.

1402
00:51:57,220 --> 00:51:59,420
And, you know, people are asking for first

1403
00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:01,880
party data from podcasting to the apps back

1404
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,740
to the hosts for analytics.

1405
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,880
Well, how do we pass that back when

1406
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,660
we're not verifying anything and we're not, you

1407
00:52:07,660 --> 00:52:08,700
know, integrating with it.

1408
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,740
I think there's more we could do together.

1409
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,900
And I think Spotify, again, sadly has, you

1410
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:16,720
know, come up with the spec that allows

1411
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:22,100
third parties like Patreon, like, you know, Substack.

1412
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:22,840
Yeah.

1413
00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:23,860
To integrate.

1414
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:26,360
And, you know, they are building more and

1415
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:26,740
more of that.

1416
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:27,800
We need to do something.

1417
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,580
And I don't know what that need is.

1418
00:52:30,380 --> 00:52:32,020
If it's, if it's just, you know, if

1419
00:52:32,020 --> 00:52:35,600
it's just some, Oh, all flow that results

1420
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,280
in proving owners, proving that you're a subscriber

1421
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,780
and then you get the content out of

1422
00:52:43,780 --> 00:52:48,140
the feed into the app that it just

1423
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:49,800
doesn't sound that hard.

1424
00:52:50,380 --> 00:52:52,340
And if something like, so if a company

1425
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:55,140
like Substack has already done the work to

1426
00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:58,400
integrate with Spotify's open access with their flow,

1427
00:52:58,980 --> 00:53:04,080
then if we just mimic that flow, then

1428
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,170
this very, they don't have much data.

1429
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:07,840
They wouldn't have to do much work on

1430
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,720
their side to also now you can get

1431
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:13,300
this content in true fans or, you know,

1432
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:15,200
in, in some other app, because I was

1433
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,480
thinking I have this exact need because I'm

1434
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,760
a subscriber to, I'm a subscriber to a

1435
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,560
show that's behind the Substack paywall.

1436
00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:27,780
And right now they give me a private

1437
00:53:27,780 --> 00:53:29,120
RSS feed, which is fine.

1438
00:53:29,140 --> 00:53:31,040
And I don't mind that, but it is,

1439
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:32,400
it is some friction.

1440
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,160
And so if I had, but of course

1441
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,200
I'm not gonna list it on Spotify.

1442
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,840
It's a crappy podcast app.

1443
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,420
So the, if I, but if I could

1444
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:47,200
get it in my 2.0 app, then

1445
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,360
that would be great.

1446
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,760
I just don't in the spirit of not,

1447
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,300
not wanting to reinvent the wheel for something

1448
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:54,280
that already works.

1449
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:57,380
And if it's truly OAuth, then it's probably

1450
00:53:57,380 --> 00:53:59,980
open already in some sense.

1451
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,520
We just may not know what the spec

1452
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,120
is, but it's gotta be fairly easy to

1453
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:04,420
follow.

1454
00:54:04,620 --> 00:54:06,360
I just think, I don't know.

1455
00:54:06,380 --> 00:54:07,300
I think we should do that.

1456
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:11,300
It may require reaching out to Spotify and

1457
00:54:11,300 --> 00:54:14,480
asking them if they're willing to point us

1458
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:15,320
in the right direction.

1459
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:18,280
I don't know how well that would go,

1460
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:24,740
but I'm just trying not to be, you

1461
00:54:24,740 --> 00:54:26,680
know, I'm trying to like think the best

1462
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:27,300
about it.

1463
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:29,760
And I don't want to always just be

1464
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,120
like, come on, screw those guys.

1465
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,180
Come on, be like that.

1466
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:36,100
Okay.

1467
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,960
Dave, I tend to agree with you slightly.

1468
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,980
I mean, one of the things I've always

1469
00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:43,340
said is, you know, the tail can't wag

1470
00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:43,800
the dog.

1471
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:46,360
When I was in corporate, we could not

1472
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:47,340
wait for tags.

1473
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,540
For example, if I was say in Spotify

1474
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:53,420
to be verified before we implemented, because we're

1475
00:54:53,420 --> 00:54:55,220
too big a public company, you've got to

1476
00:54:55,220 --> 00:54:56,440
go with what you're doing.

1477
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,500
Now, when we've got critical mass and the

1478
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:03,700
apps are starting to get traction and we're

1479
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:06,640
starting to see momentum, then they'll turn around

1480
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,260
360 or 180 and then start to look

1481
00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:09,980
at what we're doing more.

1482
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,860
I think right now you've seen, and I

1483
00:55:12,860 --> 00:55:16,040
hate being, I'm not a fan boy, but

1484
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,740
I'm an admirer of their strategy in the

1485
00:55:18,740 --> 00:55:21,660
sense that they executed so well last year

1486
00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:23,880
by, yes, they did events.

1487
00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:25,040
Yes, they did ticketing.

1488
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,460
Yes, they did audio books.

1489
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,220
Yes, they did.

1490
00:55:27,620 --> 00:55:29,280
You know, all of these things that we

1491
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,240
talk about doing in the podcasting to the

1492
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,000
community, they executed proprietary, but they executed.

1493
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,140
Now, can we get them to, to change?

1494
00:55:38,220 --> 00:55:40,380
I doubt it, but can we get Apple

1495
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:43,320
who should be the champions for us?

1496
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,660
They've opened the door slightly.

1497
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:48,020
I don't know what stops them becoming the

1498
00:55:48,020 --> 00:55:51,260
counterpoint to Spotify by actually adopting more tags.

1499
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Apple intelligence has stopped them from doing everything

1500
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:54,520
else.

1501
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:56,020
It doesn't work.

1502
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:57,380
All hands on deck.

1503
00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:00,580
By the way, I just need to say

1504
00:56:00,580 --> 00:56:03,900
one extra thing about the live, the live

1505
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:08,460
feature only really works, only really works when

1506
00:56:08,460 --> 00:56:11,780
you either have the ability to get booster

1507
00:56:11,780 --> 00:56:15,140
grams, but more importantly, I really feel the

1508
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:20,140
chat is pertinent to the experience.

1509
00:56:20,420 --> 00:56:22,220
Yeah, it is.

1510
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,580
Yeah, exactly.

1511
00:56:23,860 --> 00:56:26,080
It is very, very big part of it.

1512
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,840
In fact, YouTube has that, you know, that's

1513
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,360
exactly what I, I work with.

1514
00:56:30,460 --> 00:56:32,240
I have a long, an ongoing chat, and

1515
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,640
then someone can send a boost and it'll

1516
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,240
show up in the chat as, you know,

1517
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,460
just like, um, uh, what is it called?

1518
00:56:38,660 --> 00:56:40,740
Uh, super chat.

1519
00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:40,940
Yeah.

1520
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,600
Just like a super chat shows up as

1521
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:43,020
a boost.

1522
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,580
It says from who it says, how much

1523
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:45,520
it was, et cetera.

1524
00:56:45,860 --> 00:56:47,400
We have all those pieces.

1525
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,480
We just haven't quite put it together yet.

1526
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:50,720
Correct.

1527
00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:51,760
I agree.

1528
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:54,200
Well, and even we've got it in the

1529
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,020
spec, the spec has, uh, within the live

1530
00:56:57,020 --> 00:56:58,720
has a chat field.

1531
00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:01,740
So yeah, Alex Gates actually said, yeah, Twitch,

1532
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,280
Twitch of course does a great job.

1533
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,580
Now Twitch, Twitch doesn't do a great job.

1534
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:07,180
I don't think people don't go back.

1535
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:07,940
Well, maybe they do.

1536
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:08,360
I don't know.

1537
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:09,520
I don't know crap about Twitch.

1538
00:57:09,620 --> 00:57:11,460
Maybe people do go back and watch old

1539
00:57:11,460 --> 00:57:12,740
recorded stuff.

1540
00:57:12,820 --> 00:57:13,400
I don't know.

1541
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:14,640
Yeah, they do for sure.

1542
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:15,660
Yeah, yeah, they do.

1543
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,680
And that's the, the, it feels like the

1544
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,820
difference between Twitch and YouTube in that regard

1545
00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:24,380
with the chat is that YouTube added it

1546
00:57:24,380 --> 00:57:26,060
sort of added it later, but you can

1547
00:57:26,060 --> 00:57:28,040
tell that Twitch integrated it as a first

1548
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,200
class citizen from day one.

1549
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:31,640
Like it was always going to be part

1550
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:31,940
of it.

1551
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,580
So it's almost, it's almost like, it's almost

1552
00:57:34,580 --> 00:57:36,700
like the chat is co-equal with the

1553
00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:38,820
video as far as importance goes on something

1554
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:39,620
like Twitch.

1555
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,260
I couldn't imagine doing, I couldn't imagine doing

1556
00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:47,100
the boardroom without the chat.

1557
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:52,100
Like it's just, it just doesn't feel right.

1558
00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:53,420
You know, I mean, you might as well

1559
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:54,960
just not even be live at that point.

1560
00:57:56,060 --> 00:57:58,060
Um, but I think, you know, as far

1561
00:57:58,060 --> 00:57:59,540
as you like, as far as co-listening

1562
00:57:59,540 --> 00:58:03,180
goes, like you're talking about, you know, Sam,

1563
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:07,880
like the chat feels like that's an actual

1564
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,740
way to tell that it's not just an

1565
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:10,440
icon there.

1566
00:58:10,460 --> 00:58:11,620
It's actually a human being.

1567
00:58:12,180 --> 00:58:12,580
Yeah.

1568
00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:16,100
It was a step one towards what we

1569
00:58:16,100 --> 00:58:18,120
wanted to do, but you know, and it's

1570
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,040
not perfect, but it was just an idea

1571
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:20,640
that I had.

1572
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,920
Um, what are you thinking about as far

1573
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:23,620
as chat goes?

1574
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:25,820
Like what, what is your, if you can

1575
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:26,400
talk about it?

1576
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:27,020
Yeah.

1577
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,200
Yeah.

1578
00:58:27,220 --> 00:58:29,160
We, we want to fully support and integrate

1579
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,000
an XMPP, um, interface into TrueFans.

1580
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,840
So if I was listening on a Friday

1581
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,820
night in TrueFans to this show, there would

1582
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:38,440
be an icon.

1583
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,560
There is now already an icon there, but

1584
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,780
that icon takes the link that you've provided

1585
00:58:43,780 --> 00:58:46,520
and drops them into a separate tab window

1586
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,720
so that you can sign up to the

1587
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:49,060
chat.

1588
00:58:49,060 --> 00:58:50,760
But we want to integrate that.

1589
00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:52,800
And so that it's part of the UI

1590
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,300
and it's natural.

1591
00:58:54,420 --> 00:58:57,060
Um, again, it's on the roadmap.

1592
00:58:57,460 --> 00:58:59,400
Uh, it's not something that we can do.

1593
00:58:59,860 --> 00:59:01,820
You know, we've got, we've got to be

1594
00:59:01,820 --> 00:59:02,460
native apps.

1595
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,640
You, you asked, I think a few, few

1596
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,220
months ago, you know, is Sam still doing

1597
00:59:07,220 --> 00:59:07,720
native apps?

1598
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:08,360
A hundred percent.

1599
00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:11,000
We have to now we, we, we, we

1600
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,440
won't, um, deprecate the universal web app, but

1601
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,420
we will, and that will be our first

1602
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:18,880
class app, but we will put native apps

1603
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,500
because too many people say to us for

1604
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:22,220
two reasons.

1605
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,080
One is, Oh, uh, true fans where you

1606
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:25,220
are.

1607
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,600
I can't find you in the, the, the

1608
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:27,100
app stores.

1609
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:27,360
Right.

1610
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:29,080
So we just got rid of that problem.

1611
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,640
The second one, the performance that, um, Apple

1612
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,700
does to the platform for a universal web

1613
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:36,980
app is just horrendous.

1614
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,180
You know, it is the best.

1615
00:59:40,060 --> 00:59:40,500
Yeah.

1616
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,480
And, and I get people going, Oh, you

1617
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,800
know, I, I, I've got my iPhone and

1618
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,800
I've got the, uh, player widget playing.

1619
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,520
Um, but I can't hit play and get

1620
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:51,280
to your, your app.

1621
00:59:51,340 --> 00:59:52,280
You have to open the app to get

1622
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:52,560
it to play.

1623
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:52,780
Yeah.

1624
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,580
Apple's have disabled it.

1625
00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:55,900
We can't get them around.

1626
00:59:55,980 --> 00:59:58,720
I mean, Zuckerberg on Rogan talks about the

1627
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:59,640
airport protocol.

1628
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,800
They can't get it on the glasses because

1629
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,020
Apple won't allow it.

1630
01:00:04,380 --> 01:00:06,840
And so, yeah, you know, if you can't

1631
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,360
beat them, you sometimes have to join them.

1632
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,500
And I think, uh, you know, we're going

1633
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:11,700
to just be multi-platform.

1634
01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:13,500
We're just going to be native and web

1635
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:15,800
and just let people choose which way they

1636
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:16,200
want to go.

1637
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,200
I don't think if you've not developed a

1638
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:24,020
PWA before, what, what Sam is talking about

1639
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:27,620
is it's, the problem is not that it

1640
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:32,200
doesn't, um, it's not a binary problem.

1641
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,160
It's not like it just doesn't work or

1642
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:34,920
it does work.

1643
01:00:35,180 --> 01:00:38,040
The problem, the fresh, the frustrating part on

1644
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,460
the Apple side of PWA support is it

1645
01:00:41,460 --> 01:00:44,700
looks like it's working, but it doesn't like

1646
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:47,980
you, you'll, you'll do something as simple as,

1647
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,080
as tap, uh, a play button.

1648
01:00:51,660 --> 01:00:53,840
And after the PWA has been running for

1649
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,640
a little while, it just stops responding to

1650
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:56,480
tap sometimes.

1651
01:00:56,940 --> 01:00:59,640
And, and you, you can't, it's like, you

1652
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,260
can't forget for the, you can't figure out

1653
01:01:01,260 --> 01:01:03,740
why this function isn't working, kill the app,

1654
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:04,380
relaunch it.

1655
01:01:04,420 --> 01:01:05,120
It works fine.

1656
01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:08,000
Or sometimes the media session API that's supposed

1657
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,640
to show the artwork, uh, on like CarPlay

1658
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,640
or even on the lock screen itself, the

1659
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,120
media session API, you'll, you'll play a podcast.

1660
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:19,840
It'll show the artwork on the lock screen.

1661
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:21,340
You start listening.

1662
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,780
And after a while you go in the

1663
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:24,960
artwork is just not there anymore.

1664
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:26,900
And you can still hear the pot here

1665
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:28,680
at playing, or sometimes it'll blink.

1666
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,500
It'll come on to the lock screen and

1667
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:32,640
then go off and then come on and

1668
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:32,960
go off.

1669
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,580
It's so buggy and it's, it's so buggy

1670
01:01:36,580 --> 01:01:38,800
to the point that it almost feels intentional.

1671
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,280
It is intentional.

1672
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,700
It is intentional because, you know, they know,

1673
01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:45,500
I mean, just a simple thing, add to

1674
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:49,000
home screen is the sixth or seventh item

1675
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,080
down on the menu.

1676
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,360
So it's below the fold.

1677
01:01:51,700 --> 01:01:52,940
It's done intentionally.

1678
01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:55,820
That could simply have been add app, right?

1679
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:57,420
They could have called it instead of add

1680
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:58,080
to home screen.

1681
01:01:58,660 --> 01:01:59,720
Um, they could have done that.

1682
01:01:59,780 --> 01:02:00,420
They won't do that.

1683
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:01,540
We know they won't do that.

1684
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,940
Um, the interesting thing, um, because, uh, we

1685
01:02:05,940 --> 01:02:07,940
have a, I call it a universal app,

1686
01:02:08,860 --> 01:02:10,560
um, for marketing purposes.

1687
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:11,660
Yeah.

1688
01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:13,040
And I, as a part of the marketing

1689
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,000
purposes, I say, uh, you, it, you download

1690
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,200
it once to all your devices and it

1691
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,040
always works.

1692
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:21,060
There's no pesky app store updates.

1693
01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:22,960
People go, Oh, that's great.

1694
01:02:23,020 --> 01:02:23,680
I love that.

1695
01:02:23,820 --> 01:02:25,160
They have no idea what I'm talking about,

1696
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,040
but once, once I do it for someone

1697
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,500
and install the hello Fred universal app on

1698
01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:33,220
their iPhone, they love it.

1699
01:02:33,620 --> 01:02:34,580
They just think it's an app.

1700
01:02:35,060 --> 01:02:35,460
Yes.

1701
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:36,960
Literally is that ones.

1702
01:02:37,060 --> 01:02:38,740
And even on the iPhone, it works perfectly

1703
01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:39,160
fine.

1704
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,840
Um, or at least fine enough for, for

1705
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,500
what it is.

1706
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,020
And once they have it, they're like, Oh

1707
01:02:46,020 --> 01:02:47,100
yeah, I got the hello Fred app.

1708
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:48,620
They don't know any different.

1709
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:50,660
I, the stupidity of the user.

1710
01:02:50,660 --> 01:02:52,960
And I say that with respect and love

1711
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,380
has been built in.

1712
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,700
I mean, I, if I just say, I

1713
01:02:56,700 --> 01:02:57,760
think we talked about this.

1714
01:02:57,900 --> 01:02:59,900
Hey, just to go to hello, Fred dot

1715
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:00,200
FM.

1716
01:03:00,340 --> 01:03:04,000
They open up duck, duck, go or Safari.

1717
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,340
The search is, is at the bottom.

1718
01:03:06,580 --> 01:03:08,240
Like that seems to be standard.

1719
01:03:08,340 --> 01:03:09,240
Now it's at the bottom.

1720
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,840
I just type in hello, Fred dot FM.

1721
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:15,860
They have no idea that there, what a

1722
01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:16,640
URL is.

1723
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,020
This is, this is gone.

1724
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,000
They're all going through search intentionally.

1725
01:03:21,860 --> 01:03:25,000
Of course, because Apple and Google both benefit

1726
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,320
enormously from that.

1727
01:03:27,540 --> 01:03:28,200
How are you?

1728
01:03:28,340 --> 01:03:29,060
Which is why go.

1729
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:29,580
I'm sorry, Dave.

1730
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:30,660
No, no, no.

1731
01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:32,760
I was just going to ask, how are

1732
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,460
you going to get a sort of through

1733
01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:37,680
the gauntlet of the app store?

1734
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:41,600
I mean, you can't just wrap.

1735
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,100
Well, you can't just wrap the, the, the

1736
01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:47,800
web version of true fans.

1737
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,760
We can in a container, but do they

1738
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:52,360
allow that?

1739
01:03:52,620 --> 01:03:54,280
We're using native react.

1740
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:57,640
So we built next JS.

1741
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,340
So next week, we're sort of doing a

1742
01:04:02,340 --> 01:04:03,520
feature freeze right now.

1743
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,920
And by the end of this week, next

1744
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,780
week, we're going to do an upgrade from

1745
01:04:07,780 --> 01:04:08,100
next.

1746
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:08,480
Yes.

1747
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,780
11 to 15 react.

1748
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:11,860
Going to go to you.

1749
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,260
Version 19 framework upgrades.

1750
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:15,600
They're hell on earth.

1751
01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:18,580
We're doing refactoring of the API APIs.

1752
01:04:18,660 --> 01:04:20,220
We're doing all.

1753
01:04:20,420 --> 01:04:22,260
We're looking at website and popping again.

1754
01:04:22,260 --> 01:04:23,480
We're looking at the validator.

1755
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,900
We just going back to clean up all

1756
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:29,660
the mess that I think we've had, which

1757
01:04:29,660 --> 01:04:32,320
is, you know, technical debt over the last

1758
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:32,900
two years.

1759
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,880
And then we will use native react to

1760
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,860
then build the native apps and then submit

1761
01:04:38,860 --> 01:04:40,060
those and see where we get to.

1762
01:04:40,220 --> 01:04:42,760
I mean, it's not quite a rapper, but

1763
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,400
it's using the same code base pretty much.

1764
01:04:45,540 --> 01:04:47,340
So we don't have to start from scratch.

1765
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:48,780
That's the goal anyway.

1766
01:04:49,380 --> 01:04:51,080
You're trying to get sort of like a

1767
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,920
unified code base so you can build the

1768
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:53,900
native react app.

1769
01:04:53,980 --> 01:04:56,220
And then that kind of mimics it mimics

1770
01:04:56,220 --> 01:04:57,520
what the web apps doing, but in a

1771
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:57,900
native.

1772
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:58,780
Correct.

1773
01:04:59,320 --> 01:04:59,720
Okay.

1774
01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:00,100
Yeah.

1775
01:05:00,100 --> 01:05:00,740
That makes sense.

1776
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,080
That makes sense.

1777
01:05:02,140 --> 01:05:02,240
Yeah.

1778
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:03,780
Good luck with that.

1779
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,920
I think that, you know, that's, that's been,

1780
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,520
that's been everything about app stores is frustrating,

1781
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,400
but that minimum functionality.

1782
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,700
It's a special kind of frustrating.

1783
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:16,700
Yeah.

1784
01:05:16,940 --> 01:05:17,320
Yeah.

1785
01:05:17,740 --> 01:05:18,840
But I think you're right.

1786
01:05:18,860 --> 01:05:20,240
I think you kind of have, if you're

1787
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,700
going to be an app, you, you, you

1788
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:24,320
have to do that because the thing that

1789
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,300
makes like word and Excel and the office

1790
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:29,560
apps, the things that make the thing that

1791
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,600
makes them also be okay as web apps

1792
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,340
is the fact that they were native to

1793
01:05:34,340 --> 01:05:35,080
begin with.

1794
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,220
It's because they have a native counterpart.

1795
01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,380
And so people just accept, okay, this is

1796
01:05:41,380 --> 01:05:42,900
the web version of that thing.

1797
01:05:43,740 --> 01:05:45,420
But if you're web only, and you don't

1798
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:50,020
have a native app, it's, it's difficult to

1799
01:05:50,020 --> 01:05:52,940
get because you're just not there, you know?

1800
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,800
I mean, Oscar's done a great job with

1801
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:57,140
fountain.

1802
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,500
So you go to fountain and on the

1803
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:01,500
web and it will come up with the

1804
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:04,640
iOS banner because that's the way Apple does

1805
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:04,760
it.

1806
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,240
It says, Oh, you're on a web version

1807
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:07,600
of an app that's already in our app

1808
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:07,800
store.

1809
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:08,900
Why didn't you load the app?

1810
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,260
And I think Adam, you were asking that

1811
01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:13,040
as well, which is how'd you get this

1812
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,620
banner at the top rather than the pop

1813
01:06:14,620 --> 01:06:16,280
-up, you know, which you have to program.

1814
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,480
So Apple have pre-designed it so that

1815
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,780
if you put in, you can, you know,

1816
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,020
in the, when you build your native app,

1817
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:26,960
you can actually have it so that when

1818
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,320
it detects your web app, it'll then put

1819
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,920
an Apple banner at the top where you

1820
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:32,640
have one click.

1821
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:35,300
And strangely it does say install the app.

1822
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:35,800
It does.

1823
01:06:36,620 --> 01:06:37,560
I know it's amazing.

1824
01:06:38,020 --> 01:06:38,660
It's amazing.

1825
01:06:38,980 --> 01:06:40,580
So, you know, Apple are trying to drive

1826
01:06:40,580 --> 01:06:42,020
you away from the web, back to the

1827
01:06:42,020 --> 01:06:42,360
app store.

1828
01:06:42,460 --> 01:06:45,320
But I think in that case, fine, let's

1829
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,320
just play their game.

1830
01:06:46,380 --> 01:06:47,400
We're not going to beat them at their

1831
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:47,700
game.

1832
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,320
So we're going to be in both places.

1833
01:06:50,580 --> 01:06:50,900
That's it.

1834
01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,780
As a, as a way to just shift

1835
01:06:53,780 --> 01:06:56,800
gears for a second, I am now receiving

1836
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:01,780
during this live broadcast, I am receiving booster

1837
01:07:01,780 --> 01:07:06,100
grams and they are coming through both on

1838
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:07,120
my helipad.

1839
01:07:07,300 --> 01:07:10,340
So that means through key send and with

1840
01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:14,200
the booster gram on my strike account from

1841
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,100
Curio caster.

1842
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:18,940
Is this the split box?

1843
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,380
I think so.

1844
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:21,440
No, it may not.

1845
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:22,620
I don't know if it's the split box

1846
01:07:22,620 --> 01:07:24,240
or if it's just Curio caster.

1847
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,520
Steven B and Eric PP have been testing

1848
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:28,780
this out and it's working.

1849
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,960
So that means that we have splits going

1850
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,900
to Ellen address or in this case, Ellen

1851
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:39,060
URL and to key send and it's functioning.

1852
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:41,580
Oh, nice.

1853
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:42,640
It's very nice.

1854
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,640
So it's not, it's built into Curio caster.

1855
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:47,480
Okay.

1856
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:48,120
Okay.

1857
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,060
Cause I have a one split in the,

1858
01:07:51,060 --> 01:07:53,960
in our value block that is a test

1859
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,200
Ellen URL address, Adam courier strike dot me

1860
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:58,280
and it's just working.

1861
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,280
Sam, are you, are you, you're on Albi

1862
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:03,880
hub, right?

1863
01:08:04,060 --> 01:08:04,460
Still?

1864
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:04,860
Yes.

1865
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:05,500
Yeah, we are.

1866
01:08:05,580 --> 01:08:05,720
Yeah.

1867
01:08:06,460 --> 01:08:06,940
Okay.

1868
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,640
But we think is Albi hub there's, I

1869
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,280
think this should work through that too, right?

1870
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,580
Yeah, it still does.

1871
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:18,600
I mean, um, we, we're supporting both key

1872
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,080
send and Ellen address.

1873
01:08:20,180 --> 01:08:23,819
I mean, we are asking, um, Bumi, if

1874
01:08:23,819 --> 01:08:26,380
he can do batch processing for Ellen address,

1875
01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:28,460
cause that's the biggest problem we're finding right

1876
01:08:28,460 --> 01:08:28,760
now.

1877
01:08:28,979 --> 01:08:30,979
Uh, with key send, it was easy to

1878
01:08:30,979 --> 01:08:31,640
batch everything.

1879
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,800
Uh, we can't do that, but we, you

1880
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,279
know, for example, fountain radio, when Oscar coded

1881
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:38,899
that up as a test, um, we jumped

1882
01:08:38,899 --> 01:08:39,760
on that really quickly.

1883
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,380
We made it work and we checked with

1884
01:08:42,380 --> 01:08:42,720
Oscar.

1885
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,700
And that all worked with an address.

1886
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:45,979
So that was fine.

1887
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,180
Um, and then it's been deprecated.

1888
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:52,500
So we still use LNURLP, which is okay.

1889
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:54,819
But again, that the problem is the batching.

1890
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,020
So if you've got splits like you have

1891
01:08:57,020 --> 01:09:00,420
within this show, um, the processing of those

1892
01:09:00,420 --> 01:09:02,479
splits is really, really slow because it's the

1893
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:03,359
single API.

1894
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,800
So Stephen B says he's using Albi hub,

1895
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,640
uh, to make this all work.

1896
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,359
And he's, what he's doing is he's adding,

1897
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:13,040
uh, the booster gram, the content of the

1898
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:14,920
booster gram to the comment feel for the,

1899
01:09:14,939 --> 01:09:16,319
uh, for the invoice request.

1900
01:09:17,100 --> 01:09:19,020
And I did get a note from Oscar

1901
01:09:19,020 --> 01:09:21,640
that Ellen address splits capability will be coming

1902
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,300
very soon to fountain, hopefully within the next

1903
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:24,979
week or so.

1904
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,319
And that should probably move things along when

1905
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:28,180
that starts to happen.

1906
01:09:28,180 --> 01:09:30,979
That'll be huge for value for value, because

1907
01:09:30,979 --> 01:09:34,960
I mean, uh, just looking at the information

1908
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,640
we have 98% of the V4V stuff

1909
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,040
is, is now pretty much coming.

1910
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,660
it's number one is, uh, fountain.

1911
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:44,960
Number two is pod verse.

1912
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,920
And that's probably people who are savvy enough

1913
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,899
to have upgraded, uh, their, uh, their Albi

1914
01:09:52,899 --> 01:09:55,100
wallets to a hub or something similar.

1915
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,600
So, so I'm happy to see this.

1916
01:09:58,660 --> 01:10:00,800
Uh, and, and I love the Curio casters

1917
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:01,960
just, it just works.

1918
01:10:03,300 --> 01:10:03,820
Yeah.

1919
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:04,300
Yeah.

1920
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,260
So that would mean if, so if, if

1921
01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:09,460
the Albi hub is doing that, that means

1922
01:10:09,460 --> 01:10:10,200
true fans works.

1923
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:11,400
Curio caster works.

1924
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,480
Then fountain would work.

1925
01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:17,720
Um, and then, uh, I don't know.

1926
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:19,180
And we're only at January 17th.

1927
01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:20,640
Not bad gentlemen.

1928
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:23,500
Not bad for two weeks after Albi apocalypse.

1929
01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:26,060
I think it's very good.

1930
01:10:26,100 --> 01:10:26,480
Actually.

1931
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:27,480
I'm very, I'm pleased.

1932
01:10:27,580 --> 01:10:28,340
I'm very pleased.

1933
01:10:28,700 --> 01:10:29,280
That's good.

1934
01:10:30,420 --> 01:10:30,900
Yeah.

1935
01:10:30,900 --> 01:10:32,980
I don't, I still, you know, the, I

1936
01:10:32,980 --> 01:10:34,120
don't know about, I don't know what pot

1937
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:35,260
versus doing though.

1938
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,480
I don't think pot versus change anything.

1939
01:10:38,660 --> 01:10:40,920
I just, people are, uh, are using it

1940
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:41,660
with Albi hub.

1941
01:10:41,820 --> 01:10:42,300
I presume.

1942
01:10:42,780 --> 01:10:43,760
With Albi hub.

1943
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:44,060
Yeah.

1944
01:10:45,180 --> 01:10:45,440
Mitch.

1945
01:10:45,620 --> 01:10:46,840
I'm, I'm worried about Mitch.

1946
01:10:46,900 --> 01:10:49,120
I, I hope he's not, I hope he's

1947
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:49,640
not dead.

1948
01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:51,740
I don't think he's dead.

1949
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,200
Now he, whenever we say this, he pops

1950
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,720
up and he says, I'm not dead.

1951
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:56,900
Okay.

1952
01:10:59,380 --> 01:11:00,280
Which is good.

1953
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:01,160
It's good news.

1954
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:07,980
What, what is the biggest, um, I don't

1955
01:11:07,980 --> 01:11:08,120
know.

1956
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:09,740
What, what do you, what is the biggest

1957
01:11:09,740 --> 01:11:12,120
thing that true fans needs tech wise?

1958
01:11:12,220 --> 01:11:15,220
Well, what, what is podcasting in general, but

1959
01:11:15,220 --> 01:11:19,840
as far as 2.0 goes, where's, where

1960
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:20,700
are we turning to?

1961
01:11:20,780 --> 01:11:22,180
What, what do you think is the biggest

1962
01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:23,140
need right now?

1963
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,000
Um, what's the biggest need?

1964
01:11:27,020 --> 01:11:27,640
Good question.

1965
01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:32,440
Um, I think, I, I, I, I think

1966
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:35,520
we just need more, more case studies.

1967
01:11:35,660 --> 01:11:36,540
We need more marketing.

1968
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,200
It goes back to the PSP.

1969
01:11:38,420 --> 01:11:42,100
It goes back to, um, the industry combining,

1970
01:11:42,260 --> 01:11:43,860
you know, the sum of the parts is

1971
01:11:43,860 --> 01:11:44,060
greater.

1972
01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:45,660
Uh, you know, the whole is greater than

1973
01:11:45,660 --> 01:11:46,240
the sum of the parts.

1974
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,020
I just, I just feel we're not pulling

1975
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:49,580
together.

1976
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:50,220
Yes.

1977
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:51,920
We're doing some great stuff and we're putting

1978
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,920
some cool tech together and we're making the

1979
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:55,060
micro payments work.

1980
01:11:55,180 --> 01:11:57,880
And, um, but I, I, I still feel

1981
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,600
that we're not talking to the mainstream.

1982
01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:02,060
We're not talking to the normies.

1983
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,520
I think we've got a, a, a bubble

1984
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,740
where we are brilliant at talking to each

1985
01:12:06,740 --> 01:12:07,020
other.

1986
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,840
Um, we are brilliant at developing tech and

1987
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,580
we are so far ahead of where other

1988
01:12:12,580 --> 01:12:15,160
people are that maybe I worry we lose

1989
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:16,800
them if we can't bridge that gap.

1990
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,980
Um, you know, and that's where I think

1991
01:12:20,980 --> 01:12:21,240
we are.

1992
01:12:21,340 --> 01:12:24,160
I think we've, we may have got a,

1993
01:12:24,380 --> 01:12:26,840
uh, ahead of our skis, uh, a little

1994
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:27,120
bit.

1995
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:29,920
Yeah, we have to, but I think we're,

1996
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,500
we're not bringing along the mainstream crowd.

1997
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:37,520
Now, one of the things that, um, Russell

1998
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,660
and I talked about with secure RSS is

1999
01:12:39,660 --> 01:12:41,940
we are talking to music companies.

2000
01:12:41,940 --> 01:12:45,200
We're talking to people like Pushkin industries, um,

2001
01:12:45,220 --> 01:12:47,900
audio book providers who now are saying, okay,

2002
01:12:48,220 --> 01:12:50,440
um, I wasn't keen on V for V

2003
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:52,400
because I've got a value that I've set

2004
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:53,640
to this piece of content.

2005
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,000
Um, and I'm not going to wait for

2006
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,860
somebody to value it for me.

2007
01:12:57,860 --> 01:12:59,220
I've set my value.

2008
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,420
So can you guarantee it?

2009
01:13:01,460 --> 01:13:04,260
And we're saying, okay, we can now.

2010
01:13:04,820 --> 01:13:06,720
And, and that may be one way.

2011
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,580
If I look at my children who are

2012
01:13:08,580 --> 01:13:09,780
in their twenties, right?

2013
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:12,160
Um, will they come off Spotify?

2014
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,140
Not really, not right now.

2015
01:13:14,140 --> 01:13:15,480
Cause the driver is the music.

2016
01:13:15,580 --> 01:13:17,280
They're not there for the podcasting or there

2017
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:18,320
for everything else.

2018
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,860
So how can we get the music people?

2019
01:13:22,980 --> 01:13:24,300
I mean, I, you know, again, if you

2020
01:13:24,300 --> 01:13:25,940
want to have a conversation, had a great

2021
01:13:25,940 --> 01:13:27,520
conversation with Julia Costello this week.

2022
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,860
Um, I think David has done something brilliant.

2023
01:13:29,860 --> 01:13:32,300
He's added the license tag to RSS.com,

2024
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:33,420
RSS blue now.

2025
01:13:34,020 --> 01:13:37,700
Um, so we, we, there's things we can

2026
01:13:37,700 --> 01:13:38,640
do more and more.

2027
01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:40,700
We talked about, you know, Twitter.

2028
01:13:43,190 --> 01:13:43,670
Hello.

2029
01:13:44,590 --> 01:13:44,990
Nope.

2030
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:45,510
I'm sorry.

2031
01:13:45,690 --> 01:13:45,950
It bled.

2032
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:49,130
Is that bleeding through main channel?

2033
01:13:49,550 --> 01:13:51,150
Oh, that's not supposed to happen.

2034
01:13:51,450 --> 01:13:51,790
Let me see.

2035
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:53,130
Are you hearing it now?

2036
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:55,470
Yeah, no, no, no, no.

2037
01:13:55,490 --> 01:13:55,910
That's no good.

2038
01:13:55,930 --> 01:13:57,090
You can edit it out in post.

2039
01:13:59,570 --> 01:14:00,630
Yeah, I was never going to do that.

2040
01:14:00,690 --> 01:14:01,870
I was trying to get the ISO ready,

2041
01:14:02,030 --> 01:14:03,690
but for some reason that's, uh, I'm sorry

2042
01:14:03,690 --> 01:14:04,250
about that.

2043
01:14:04,850 --> 01:14:08,290
But on that, Sam, this is exactly why

2044
01:14:08,290 --> 01:14:10,530
we do showcases like booster Graham ball.

2045
01:14:10,530 --> 01:14:13,370
And the, the most recent booster Graham ball

2046
01:14:13,370 --> 01:14:16,190
live was targeted towards what you would call

2047
01:14:16,190 --> 01:14:17,050
normies musicians.

2048
01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:21,070
And there were normal musicians who had never

2049
01:14:21,070 --> 01:14:22,410
heard of this stuff.

2050
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:26,730
And every single one of the six bands

2051
01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:29,350
that were there, six or seven came up

2052
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:31,910
to me and said, dude, this stuff makes

2053
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:33,050
a difference in my life.

2054
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:34,550
This makes a difference.

2055
01:14:34,650 --> 01:14:37,470
This value for value thing, this making five,

2056
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:41,490
$600 for, uh, for doing a set makes

2057
01:14:41,490 --> 01:14:42,030
a difference.

2058
01:14:42,030 --> 01:14:43,970
And, and we made a difference and that's

2059
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:45,450
what I think open mic is doing so

2060
01:14:45,450 --> 01:14:45,950
brilliantly.

2061
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:49,510
And that's why I am, uh, reaching out

2062
01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:52,990
to, uh, the Nostra community because they do

2063
01:14:52,990 --> 01:14:54,810
bring people with wallets.

2064
01:14:55,070 --> 01:14:57,970
You know, people have wallets and they can

2065
01:14:57,970 --> 01:15:00,930
come in and whether, you know, whether we

2066
01:15:00,930 --> 01:15:02,630
make it so they can zap and it

2067
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:03,430
goes through a split.

2068
01:15:03,550 --> 01:15:05,530
So whether they bring their wallets and, and

2069
01:15:05,530 --> 01:15:08,730
use it for, uh, for booster grams doesn't

2070
01:15:08,730 --> 01:15:11,370
really matter to me as long as we

2071
01:15:11,370 --> 01:15:13,830
can get more people in, but you do

2072
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:15,970
it by bringing in this always the content,

2073
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:19,150
Sam, it's always the content and all this

2074
01:15:19,150 --> 01:15:20,910
video nonsense will go away.

2075
01:15:20,930 --> 01:15:23,330
And we have another fantastic audio show that

2076
01:15:23,330 --> 01:15:24,250
catches fire.

2077
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:25,950
It, the lightning flashes.

2078
01:15:26,130 --> 01:15:27,550
We have no idea what it is or

2079
01:15:27,550 --> 01:15:28,990
how it happens, but it happens.

2080
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:31,150
And then everybody will be listening to audio

2081
01:15:31,150 --> 01:15:31,990
podcasts again.

2082
01:15:32,030 --> 01:15:33,390
And that's all we'll be talking about.

2083
01:15:33,570 --> 01:15:35,030
Oh, this is the, this is the next

2084
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:35,910
new greatest thing.

2085
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:37,670
It's always the same.

2086
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:40,370
I was listening to Buzzcast tonight.

2087
01:15:40,570 --> 01:15:43,290
Kevin from Buzzcast made a brilliant point, which

2088
01:15:43,290 --> 01:15:47,050
is, um, audio allows me to have my

2089
01:15:47,050 --> 01:15:50,870
attention on the audio while driving, while walking,

2090
01:15:50,970 --> 01:15:54,570
while running, wherever the video element has to

2091
01:15:54,570 --> 01:15:55,210
be there.

2092
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:57,370
If it was just two talking heads, it's

2093
01:15:57,370 --> 01:15:57,930
very boring.

2094
01:15:57,930 --> 01:16:00,010
So they have to throw video that does

2095
01:16:00,010 --> 01:16:01,310
things to keep my attention.

2096
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:04,650
And he was saying the video element is

2097
01:16:04,650 --> 01:16:08,110
added complexity to keep my attention, but that's

2098
01:16:08,110 --> 01:16:10,010
not the driving reason why I want to

2099
01:16:10,010 --> 01:16:10,630
listen to a podcast.

2100
01:16:11,290 --> 01:16:13,170
And so I think he was so on

2101
01:16:13,170 --> 01:16:16,630
the money that, you know, video is there

2102
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:19,330
to try and make you focus into whatever

2103
01:16:19,330 --> 01:16:21,930
you're listening to, but you don't need it.

2104
01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:23,110
It's not required.

2105
01:16:23,370 --> 01:16:26,190
And, you know, we, if we just pander

2106
01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:29,150
to the needs of video platforms saying that

2107
01:16:29,150 --> 01:16:32,150
you need video, um, then we lose the

2108
01:16:32,150 --> 01:16:33,810
value, which is what James was saying.

2109
01:16:34,030 --> 01:16:37,150
Podcasting is, it's that audio first capability so

2110
01:16:37,150 --> 01:16:38,530
that you can do other things.

2111
01:16:38,990 --> 01:16:40,390
That's why we love podcasts.

2112
01:16:41,370 --> 01:16:41,470
Yeah.

2113
01:16:41,470 --> 01:16:43,410
I think, I think, you know, you, you

2114
01:16:43,410 --> 01:16:45,430
and James had a good, an interesting discussion

2115
01:16:45,430 --> 01:16:49,650
where you disagreed about, um, you know, about

2116
01:16:49,650 --> 01:16:53,210
whether the driving for the driving force for

2117
01:16:53,210 --> 01:16:54,710
revenue in the future for some of these

2118
01:16:54,710 --> 01:16:56,870
big companies is going to be advertising or

2119
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:59,950
revenue sharing from subscriptions, you know, and he

2120
01:16:59,950 --> 01:17:02,010
disagreed that people, you know, he said, well,

2121
01:17:02,010 --> 01:17:03,750
we know that people are not skipping ads.

2122
01:17:04,410 --> 01:17:04,670
I disagree.

2123
01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:06,030
I couldn't say it.

2124
01:17:06,330 --> 01:17:06,770
Yeah.

2125
01:17:07,010 --> 01:17:07,310
Yeah.

2126
01:17:07,370 --> 01:17:08,910
I don't think we, I don't think we,

2127
01:17:09,130 --> 01:17:11,070
I don't think we know that for sure

2128
01:17:11,070 --> 01:17:14,610
because you can't, um, you can't measure it.

2129
01:17:15,210 --> 01:17:15,330
Spotify.

2130
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:17,970
Now that Spotify have first party data that

2131
01:17:17,970 --> 01:17:19,450
will be able to go to advertisers.

2132
01:17:20,130 --> 01:17:23,050
Advertisers must be demanding first party data.

2133
01:17:23,050 --> 01:17:24,810
How long did you listen to my ad?

2134
01:17:24,910 --> 01:17:25,790
When was my ad listened?

2135
01:17:25,950 --> 01:17:28,750
How many people, they will know that data

2136
01:17:28,750 --> 01:17:30,450
hosts don't know that data.

2137
01:17:30,490 --> 01:17:30,810
Okay.

2138
01:17:31,210 --> 01:17:34,850
But apps will know that data and Spotify's

2139
01:17:34,850 --> 01:17:37,210
advertisers will be asking and I'm, I'm, I'm

2140
01:17:37,210 --> 01:17:39,630
guessing now, but I bet you they're saying,

2141
01:17:39,710 --> 01:17:41,190
uh, yeah, people are skipping it.

2142
01:17:41,390 --> 01:17:44,690
Now I did a test, a podcast movement

2143
01:17:44,690 --> 01:17:46,410
in a room, you know, with Rob Walsh,

2144
01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:47,970
you and me and him went head to

2145
01:17:47,970 --> 01:17:48,150
head.

2146
01:17:48,490 --> 01:17:50,970
And I said, okay, Rob, you're selling advertising.

2147
01:17:50,970 --> 01:17:53,490
Can you tell me how long did somebody

2148
01:17:53,490 --> 01:17:54,470
listen to that third ad?

2149
01:17:54,510 --> 01:17:55,150
He couldn't tell me.

2150
01:17:55,190 --> 01:17:57,190
He has no concept of that information.

2151
01:17:57,990 --> 01:17:59,190
So then I asked the room, put your

2152
01:17:59,190 --> 01:17:59,630
hand up.

2153
01:17:59,630 --> 01:18:01,290
If you skip ads, the whole room, put

2154
01:18:01,290 --> 01:18:01,870
their hands up.

2155
01:18:02,230 --> 01:18:04,970
So the reality is no one's asking the

2156
01:18:04,970 --> 01:18:06,970
users whether they're skipping the ads.

2157
01:18:07,050 --> 01:18:08,230
They're not getting to that point.

2158
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:10,970
They're just taking the belief system.

2159
01:18:11,490 --> 01:18:13,550
And, and James was quoting a company who

2160
01:18:13,550 --> 01:18:16,550
was fundamentally, it was in their interest to

2161
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:18,290
not say people skip ads because they were

2162
01:18:18,290 --> 01:18:18,970
an ad company.

2163
01:18:18,970 --> 01:18:21,010
So of course they're going to tell you

2164
01:18:21,010 --> 01:18:22,210
that no one's skipping ads.

2165
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:24,970
It's, it's, you know, it's obvious they're not

2166
01:18:24,970 --> 01:18:26,390
going to come out with another report.

2167
01:18:27,170 --> 01:18:28,950
Well, his, his other point, his other point

2168
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:32,510
was that we know that podcast advertising is

2169
01:18:32,510 --> 01:18:33,910
effective in, in both.

2170
01:18:34,110 --> 01:18:34,410
I see.

2171
01:18:34,510 --> 01:18:36,030
The thing is, both of those things can

2172
01:18:36,030 --> 01:18:37,310
be true at the same time.

2173
01:18:37,730 --> 01:18:38,810
People can be skipping.

2174
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:43,150
People can skip ads and the, and podcast

2175
01:18:43,150 --> 01:18:45,550
advertising can be effective when it's heard.

2176
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:49,150
The problem is you, they're not, they're not

2177
01:18:49,150 --> 01:18:49,770
connected.

2178
01:18:50,030 --> 01:18:52,590
You know, if the, Alex has a good

2179
01:18:52,590 --> 01:18:54,610
point in the boardroom, he says that, you

2180
01:18:54,610 --> 01:18:56,130
know, if people don't, if people didn't skip

2181
01:18:56,130 --> 01:18:57,710
ads, YouTube wouldn't have a skip button.

2182
01:18:57,950 --> 01:19:00,750
And that's, that's the truth because you know,

2183
01:19:00,790 --> 01:19:03,030
the thing is, it's got unskippable ads now

2184
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:03,330
unskippable.

2185
01:19:04,050 --> 01:19:04,590
That's right.

2186
01:19:04,710 --> 01:19:07,790
The, the, so we, we had a recent

2187
01:19:07,790 --> 01:19:08,510
experience.

2188
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:12,050
We ended up with who we, we bought,

2189
01:19:12,270 --> 01:19:15,190
we had to get Hulu, which I've haven't

2190
01:19:15,190 --> 01:19:15,750
had in years.

2191
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:18,270
We had to buy a Hulu subscription to

2192
01:19:18,270 --> 01:19:20,830
watch one movie that was only on that.

2193
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:22,850
And it was like an exclusive.

2194
01:19:23,570 --> 01:19:25,010
And so we got, I was like, you

2195
01:19:25,010 --> 01:19:26,050
know, I really don't want to pay for

2196
01:19:26,050 --> 01:19:26,410
Hulu.

2197
01:19:26,590 --> 01:19:28,270
We never watch anything on this, on this

2198
01:19:28,270 --> 01:19:28,610
platform.

2199
01:19:28,610 --> 01:19:31,410
So I'll just get the most cheap option

2200
01:19:31,410 --> 01:19:31,910
there is.

2201
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:32,750
And it had ads.

2202
01:19:33,210 --> 01:19:36,430
Now I haven't, I haven't seen ads on

2203
01:19:36,430 --> 01:19:38,630
a streaming platform in years.

2204
01:19:39,170 --> 01:19:41,950
And I don't watch broadcast or cable television.

2205
01:19:42,050 --> 01:19:44,150
I haven't had a cable subscription, a cable

2206
01:19:44,150 --> 01:19:46,910
television subscription in probably 15 years.

2207
01:19:47,790 --> 01:19:49,710
We, we got rid of cable TV in

2208
01:19:49,710 --> 01:19:51,390
our house when we started homeschooling our kids,

2209
01:19:51,410 --> 01:19:52,710
cause it was a huge distraction.

2210
01:19:53,390 --> 01:19:57,790
But we, we, so we got this Hulu

2211
01:19:57,790 --> 01:19:59,950
subscription and it was like, I think like

2212
01:19:59,950 --> 01:20:01,570
nine bucks a month or something in like

2213
01:20:01,570 --> 01:20:03,570
$20 was the ad free version.

2214
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:05,210
And I'm like, I'll just do the cheap

2215
01:20:05,210 --> 01:20:05,370
one.

2216
01:20:05,570 --> 01:20:07,850
So we had, we have it and we

2217
01:20:07,850 --> 01:20:08,810
watched that movie.

2218
01:20:09,210 --> 01:20:12,570
And so then a few nights ago, my

2219
01:20:12,570 --> 01:20:15,810
daughter, we wanted her to see the BBC

2220
01:20:15,810 --> 01:20:18,730
Sherlock series with a Benedict Cumberbatch.

2221
01:20:19,130 --> 01:20:22,190
And so we were like, we started looking

2222
01:20:22,190 --> 01:20:23,510
for it and it was like, Oh, it's

2223
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:23,930
on Hulu.

2224
01:20:24,110 --> 01:20:25,430
Okay, well we'll just watch it cause we

2225
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:27,110
have this Hulu subscription until the end of

2226
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:27,550
the month.

2227
01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:32,770
I'm telling you the advertising is brutal.

2228
01:20:33,450 --> 01:20:36,890
It's every 10 minutes, three in a row,

2229
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:39,390
three in a row, a minute and a

2230
01:20:39,390 --> 01:20:40,230
half of ads.

2231
01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:43,210
Every 10, every eight to 10 minutes.

2232
01:20:43,530 --> 01:20:47,950
And the ads, the ads are, are the

2233
01:20:47,950 --> 01:20:51,850
most bargain basement companies I've never heard of.

2234
01:20:52,450 --> 01:20:54,850
It's, it's like, it's crap.

2235
01:20:55,090 --> 01:20:57,590
It's bottom feeder, crap, bottom feeder, crap.

2236
01:20:57,710 --> 01:20:58,270
That's what you get.

2237
01:20:58,290 --> 01:21:00,750
Of course it's bottom feeder crap.

2238
01:21:00,870 --> 01:21:04,130
And I'm telling, I'm like, to me, what

2239
01:21:04,130 --> 01:21:05,530
I said, what I told her last night

2240
01:21:05,530 --> 01:21:08,130
is I'm, I'm going to go before.

2241
01:21:08,330 --> 01:21:10,130
We're not watching another episode.

2242
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:11,390
We made it through two seasons.

2243
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:14,650
We're not, I'm not watching another episode of

2244
01:21:14,650 --> 01:21:16,970
this on this platform.

2245
01:21:17,110 --> 01:21:19,970
I'm going to go and buy the, buy

2246
01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:22,870
the next season for 15 bucks off Amazon

2247
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:26,950
prime because I cannot tolerate this advertising garbage.

2248
01:21:27,150 --> 01:21:29,530
And I think, I think the anti-advertising

2249
01:21:29,530 --> 01:21:33,010
thing is a social movement in the same

2250
01:21:33,010 --> 01:21:38,310
way that people stopped smoking is a social

2251
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:39,830
movement or alcohol.

2252
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:43,630
People are reducing their alcohol consumption is a,

2253
01:21:43,630 --> 01:21:44,710
is a social movement.

2254
01:21:44,770 --> 01:21:46,510
You can't, you don't really know.

2255
01:21:46,990 --> 01:21:50,430
You can't find like the organic ground zero

2256
01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:51,250
of these things.

2257
01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:52,350
It's just a movement.

2258
01:21:52,750 --> 01:21:55,350
And I don't think the tolerance for advertising

2259
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:56,550
is going to stay.

2260
01:21:56,730 --> 01:21:58,570
I think, I think they're going to, people

2261
01:21:58,570 --> 01:22:00,330
will just turn off the content.

2262
01:22:00,670 --> 01:22:03,630
And therein lies the marketing problem, Sam, because

2263
01:22:03,630 --> 01:22:06,290
of course there is no marketing for what

2264
01:22:06,290 --> 01:22:06,810
we're doing.

2265
01:22:06,810 --> 01:22:10,090
The marketing is all done by the advertising

2266
01:22:10,090 --> 01:22:10,730
industry.

2267
01:22:10,930 --> 01:22:13,350
They are, they have the money, they have

2268
01:22:13,350 --> 01:22:16,810
the, the voice, they have all the different

2269
01:22:16,810 --> 01:22:20,070
pieces that you need to talk about podcasting

2270
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:20,650
in general.

2271
01:22:20,650 --> 01:22:23,170
They're the ones that have screwed up this

2272
01:22:23,170 --> 01:22:25,110
whole video conversation.

2273
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:29,330
It's always about the marketing people and they

2274
01:22:29,330 --> 01:22:32,030
have no benefit in value for value.

2275
01:22:32,130 --> 01:22:34,950
I mean, yeah, you have, we've talked about

2276
01:22:34,950 --> 01:22:35,230
this.

2277
01:22:35,230 --> 01:22:36,630
There's, there's different models.

2278
01:22:36,990 --> 01:22:39,310
I got to tell you, in 2006, I

2279
01:22:39,310 --> 01:22:40,730
started a company and I thought we would

2280
01:22:40,730 --> 01:22:42,190
change the advertising business.

2281
01:22:42,410 --> 01:22:43,590
And boy, was I wrong.

2282
01:22:44,050 --> 01:22:45,570
You can't change those fuckers.

2283
01:22:46,170 --> 01:22:46,730
Pardon my French.

2284
01:22:47,470 --> 01:22:49,790
They are stuck in their ways and they're

2285
01:22:49,790 --> 01:22:50,350
afraid.

2286
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:51,690
They are afraid.

2287
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:52,730
They are afraid.

2288
01:22:53,230 --> 01:22:56,010
They're afraid to try anything new because it

2289
01:22:56,010 --> 01:22:57,050
can screw stuff up.

2290
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:58,170
They can lose clients.

2291
01:22:58,330 --> 01:23:01,010
It's just, and honestly, I'm okay.

2292
01:23:01,090 --> 01:23:04,510
That's why I focus on hyperlocal, hyperlocal value

2293
01:23:04,510 --> 01:23:05,010
for value.

2294
01:23:05,010 --> 01:23:10,990
Whether it's by geographic location or, um, location

2295
01:23:10,990 --> 01:23:14,450
of interest works and no one's going to

2296
01:23:14,450 --> 01:23:17,010
be a millionaire, but everybody gets paid and

2297
01:23:17,010 --> 01:23:18,770
everybody goes home with a smile on their

2298
01:23:18,770 --> 01:23:19,130
face.

2299
01:23:19,890 --> 01:23:22,350
And if that's the future for me, if

2300
01:23:22,350 --> 01:23:26,110
I saw ads on Hulu for businesses around

2301
01:23:26,110 --> 01:23:28,450
me, I would, I would be okay with

2302
01:23:28,450 --> 01:23:28,630
it.

2303
01:23:28,830 --> 01:23:31,190
But if I watch one more grammarly ad,

2304
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:33,170
I'm gonna, I'm gonna scream.

2305
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:36,110
I mean, I've literally seen 40 of them

2306
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:39,390
in the last four days and it really

2307
01:23:39,390 --> 01:23:40,950
has no relevance to my life.

2308
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:42,410
It just makes me want to tear my

2309
01:23:42,410 --> 01:23:42,890
hair out.

2310
01:23:43,410 --> 01:23:45,050
But if I saw an ad for, you

2311
01:23:45,050 --> 01:23:47,790
know, a company here in Birmingham, that might

2312
01:23:47,790 --> 01:23:48,950
at least be interesting.

2313
01:23:49,690 --> 01:23:51,410
Dave, I got to move us along because,

2314
01:23:51,490 --> 01:23:53,110
uh, you know, you've gotten out.

2315
01:23:53,290 --> 01:23:54,010
I've gotten out.

2316
01:23:54,170 --> 01:23:55,690
We need speaking of value for value.

2317
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:57,150
I think we should thank some people who

2318
01:23:57,150 --> 01:24:00,070
have been supporting the podcast index and the

2319
01:24:00,070 --> 01:24:00,630
board meeting.

2320
01:24:01,650 --> 01:24:02,550
Lucky for you.

2321
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:04,710
I had a sheet of paper.

2322
01:24:04,910 --> 01:24:05,610
Well, how about that?

2323
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:11,590
Uh, what I will do also, uh, let

2324
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:13,450
me, I just screwed up my booster, my,

2325
01:24:13,470 --> 01:24:14,450
my helipad here.

2326
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:16,250
Uh, let me thank the people who've boosted

2327
01:24:16,250 --> 01:24:18,470
in while we are doing this live as

2328
01:24:18,470 --> 01:24:20,790
I speak a little longer and draw it

2329
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:23,770
out as my screen starts to draw.

2330
01:24:23,870 --> 01:24:24,250
There we are.

2331
01:24:24,850 --> 01:24:25,630
Uh, here we go.

2332
01:24:25,670 --> 01:24:26,990
One, two, three, four from dreads.

2333
01:24:26,990 --> 01:24:29,150
Scott from, uh, pod verse.

2334
01:24:29,490 --> 01:24:31,650
He says regarding getting the word out, maybe

2335
01:24:31,650 --> 01:24:33,250
we bring into the keeper to put together

2336
01:24:33,250 --> 01:24:34,010
a marketing plan.

2337
01:24:34,030 --> 01:24:34,890
Just spit balling.

2338
01:24:34,950 --> 01:24:35,390
Yeah.

2339
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:38,470
The problem is, uh, we have no marketing

2340
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:38,910
department.

2341
01:24:38,910 --> 01:24:40,610
We have no marketing money.

2342
01:24:41,010 --> 01:24:42,870
Uh, we have no marketing time.

2343
01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:46,090
Um, that's, and we suck at it and

2344
01:24:46,090 --> 01:24:46,730
we suck at it.

2345
01:24:47,170 --> 01:24:50,350
Uh, and Dreb comes in with another one,

2346
01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:52,290
two, three, four sats, banana splits.

2347
01:24:52,290 --> 01:24:54,670
He says with little banana emoji.

2348
01:24:54,670 --> 01:24:55,090
Thank you.

2349
01:24:55,090 --> 01:24:56,510
Stephen B with a hundred and then a

2350
01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:59,150
thousand sats testing boost from Curio caster.

2351
01:24:59,290 --> 01:24:59,970
See if they come through.

2352
01:25:00,010 --> 01:25:02,270
And I posted those in the boardroom and

2353
01:25:02,270 --> 01:25:02,650
they did.

2354
01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:04,490
And I also posted the, uh, the split

2355
01:25:04,490 --> 01:25:06,350
going into my, uh, strike wallet.

2356
01:25:06,410 --> 01:25:07,150
So congratulations.

2357
01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:07,750
That works.

2358
01:25:07,870 --> 01:25:08,330
Pod two.

2359
01:25:08,450 --> 01:25:10,190
There's Russell 3333.

2360
01:25:10,830 --> 01:25:12,070
SOA is not secure.

2361
01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:14,090
You can still access the audio file in

2362
01:25:14,090 --> 01:25:14,730
the RSS.

2363
01:25:15,090 --> 01:25:16,750
Yes, we are aware.

2364
01:25:17,490 --> 01:25:17,670
Mm.

2365
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:19,490
Cole McCormick, 1111.

2366
01:25:19,930 --> 01:25:21,950
I made a tutorial video for showing people

2367
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:23,450
how to go live using pod home.

2368
01:25:23,450 --> 01:25:27,010
Check out podcast, Normie YouTube channel, and there's

2369
01:25:27,010 --> 01:25:27,690
a dichotomy.

2370
01:25:28,370 --> 01:25:29,490
Learn how to do it on YouTube.

2371
01:25:30,250 --> 01:25:32,410
Uh, I have concepts of a plan to

2372
01:25:32,410 --> 01:25:34,010
go live more often for my podcast.

2373
01:25:34,170 --> 01:25:35,610
More people just need to do it.

2374
01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:36,190
I agree.

2375
01:25:37,410 --> 01:25:38,190
So I'll do it.

2376
01:25:38,250 --> 01:25:39,010
Salty crayon.

2377
01:25:39,070 --> 01:25:39,750
One, two, three, four.

2378
01:25:39,810 --> 01:25:42,370
Howdy Dave and Adam Dave named this Sunday's

2379
01:25:42,370 --> 01:25:44,270
episode beef milkshake.

2380
01:25:44,510 --> 01:25:45,350
I got it from you.

2381
01:25:45,410 --> 01:25:47,950
It's a concoction of new and classic tracks.

2382
01:25:48,270 --> 01:25:49,490
Just the beefy ones.

2383
01:25:49,650 --> 01:25:50,790
He's the pod hobbyist.

2384
01:25:50,890 --> 01:25:51,810
Go podcasting.

2385
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:52,930
I got it from you.

2386
01:25:52,930 --> 01:25:53,290
Okay.

2387
01:25:53,550 --> 01:25:55,710
And there's pod two, again, coming in from

2388
01:25:55,710 --> 01:25:57,050
fountain with a thousand sets.

2389
01:25:57,270 --> 01:26:00,010
Drn one uses ice cast pod two offers

2390
01:26:00,010 --> 01:26:02,090
radio stations and ice cast server with a

2391
01:26:02,090 --> 01:26:02,810
radio package.

2392
01:26:02,890 --> 01:26:05,230
The issue is music licensing, which the only

2393
01:26:05,230 --> 01:26:07,090
platform that has solved that as live tricks,

2394
01:26:07,230 --> 01:26:08,390
three 65 at the moment.

2395
01:26:08,390 --> 01:26:08,710
Yes.

2396
01:26:09,230 --> 01:26:12,190
Uh, we are also launching our YP directory,

2397
01:26:12,190 --> 01:26:14,150
which will be open and only ice cast

2398
01:26:14,150 --> 01:26:15,910
servers have that built in.

2399
01:26:15,910 --> 01:26:17,270
Uh, shout cast streams.

2400
01:26:17,270 --> 01:26:19,450
Can't add a YP directory for my chats

2401
01:26:19,450 --> 01:26:20,950
with the team at shout cast.

2402
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:24,690
Drn one gets 120,000 listeners online each

2403
01:26:24,690 --> 01:26:26,410
month by our app and by third-party

2404
01:26:26,410 --> 01:26:26,810
apps.

2405
01:26:27,210 --> 01:26:29,670
So there's definitely stuff working.

2406
01:26:30,190 --> 01:26:30,790
Nice.

2407
01:26:31,510 --> 01:26:34,030
1776 freedom boost from Lyceum coming in from

2408
01:26:34,030 --> 01:26:34,670
true fans.

2409
01:26:34,770 --> 01:26:36,270
Go podcasting with true fans.

2410
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:38,050
Comment with a Liberty boost of 1776.

2411
01:26:38,910 --> 01:26:42,370
Satoshi's best premises says Martin Linda's cog is

2412
01:26:42,370 --> 01:26:43,050
lightning address.

2413
01:26:43,230 --> 01:26:44,710
Lyceum at true fans.

2414
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:45,330
Dot FM.

2415
01:26:45,850 --> 01:26:47,550
Nah, there's tone record.

2416
01:26:48,190 --> 01:26:49,630
44, 44 boosting.

2417
01:26:49,630 --> 01:26:51,910
The can't ban RSS reminder.

2418
01:26:52,130 --> 01:26:52,430
Indeed.

2419
01:26:53,770 --> 01:26:55,990
Um, there's Russell again with a thousand sats

2420
01:26:55,990 --> 01:26:56,470
in Australia.

2421
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:58,330
We have doc, uh, dry July.

2422
01:26:59,770 --> 01:27:02,170
Oh, well, that's because it's cold.

2423
01:27:02,290 --> 01:27:03,850
You're upside down world, man.

2424
01:27:03,930 --> 01:27:04,810
Upside down world.

2425
01:27:04,910 --> 01:27:05,990
Well, we, we do it in January.

2426
01:27:05,990 --> 01:27:06,430
That's it.

2427
01:27:06,450 --> 01:27:07,470
I hit the delimiter Dave.

2428
01:27:07,530 --> 01:27:08,510
What do you have on your list?

2429
01:27:08,930 --> 01:27:10,150
I'm going to do these in reverse.

2430
01:27:10,230 --> 01:27:11,490
I'm going to do monthly's first.

2431
01:27:11,570 --> 01:27:14,490
We've got, uh, Terry Keller, $5.

2432
01:27:14,510 --> 01:27:15,230
Thank you, Terry.

2433
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:17,010
Uh, silicone florist, $10.

2434
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:19,010
Chris Cowan, $5.

2435
01:27:19,350 --> 01:27:21,290
Yaron Rosenstein, $1.

2436
01:27:21,770 --> 01:27:22,570
Derek J.

2437
01:27:22,690 --> 01:27:23,530
Viscar, $21.

2438
01:27:24,050 --> 01:27:24,390
Nice.

2439
01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:27,010
Paul Saltzman, $22 and 22 cents.

2440
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:27,490
Thank you, Paul.

2441
01:27:28,230 --> 01:27:29,670
Damon Castlejack, $15.

2442
01:27:30,130 --> 01:27:31,310
Jeremy Gerds, $5.

2443
01:27:32,110 --> 01:27:33,210
Gene Liverman, $5.

2444
01:27:33,550 --> 01:27:35,570
Michael Hall, $5 and 50 cents.

2445
01:27:36,090 --> 01:27:38,710
New media productions, $30 and Jean.

2446
01:27:39,130 --> 01:27:40,670
Oh, so there's Jean Liverman again with another

2447
01:27:40,670 --> 01:27:41,010
$5.

2448
01:27:41,330 --> 01:27:41,770
Thank you.

2449
01:27:42,510 --> 01:27:43,850
Timothy Voice, $10.

2450
01:27:44,730 --> 01:27:46,690
And, uh, that's our PayPal's.

2451
01:27:46,890 --> 01:27:48,330
And we thank you all very much for

2452
01:27:48,330 --> 01:27:50,110
the, for the Fiat fund coupons.

2453
01:27:50,150 --> 01:27:51,230
That's highly appreciated.

2454
01:27:51,950 --> 01:27:54,670
We've got Jean Bean, 22, 22.

2455
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:56,410
He says, I love the idea of the

2456
01:27:56,410 --> 01:27:57,030
split box.

2457
01:27:57,190 --> 01:27:57,610
Yes.

2458
01:27:58,650 --> 01:27:59,090
Yeah.

2459
01:27:59,090 --> 01:28:00,730
There's a lot of work going on behind

2460
01:28:00,730 --> 01:28:01,370
the scenes.

2461
01:28:02,410 --> 01:28:03,630
And I don't understand.

2462
01:28:03,790 --> 01:28:04,930
I've lost track.

2463
01:28:05,010 --> 01:28:06,330
I'm like, I don't get it anymore.

2464
01:28:06,430 --> 01:28:06,770
Okay.

2465
01:28:06,890 --> 01:28:09,290
I'll just wait until, wait until when sad

2466
01:28:09,290 --> 01:28:10,610
start showing up on my wallet.

2467
01:28:10,650 --> 01:28:11,750
It's time to say, Hey, start showing up

2468
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:11,850
on my wallet.

2469
01:28:11,850 --> 01:28:12,250
Stephen B.

2470
01:28:12,370 --> 01:28:13,110
How does it work?

2471
01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:17,330
Gene Everett, Satchel, Richards, one, one, one, one.

2472
01:28:17,470 --> 01:28:21,290
He just says, boost, boost away, brother, uh,

2473
01:28:21,290 --> 01:28:22,790
Jean being again, he says, I agree with

2474
01:28:22,790 --> 01:28:23,810
dad, 22, 22.

2475
01:28:23,950 --> 01:28:24,970
He says, I agree with day that we're

2476
01:28:24,970 --> 01:28:27,110
not ready for LLM based fishing combined with

2477
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:28,490
compromised email accounts.

2478
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:29,970
That's kind of terrifying.

2479
01:28:29,970 --> 01:28:31,010
If you really think about it.

2480
01:28:31,330 --> 01:28:31,710
Yeah.

2481
01:28:32,290 --> 01:28:32,670
Agreed.

2482
01:28:33,490 --> 01:28:36,850
Uh, and the delimiter commissioner blogger, 14, 14,

2483
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:39,730
16, these backs, 14, six, 40 sas through

2484
01:28:39,730 --> 01:28:40,130
fountain.

2485
01:28:40,170 --> 01:28:42,290
He says, how do you Dave and Adam?

2486
01:28:42,430 --> 01:28:45,490
I'm not sure under what circumstances audio served

2487
01:28:45,490 --> 01:28:47,730
via RSS feed is not a podcast.

2488
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:52,290
For example, if is soliloquy a podcast is

2489
01:28:52,290 --> 01:28:55,670
soliloquy as a type of monologue revealing innermost

2490
01:28:55,670 --> 01:28:57,950
feelings or ideas to the audience.

2491
01:28:58,050 --> 01:29:01,590
If yes, then I recommend to one from

2492
01:29:01,590 --> 01:29:04,590
Darren O'Neill with a strange URL, ran

2493
01:29:04,590 --> 01:29:06,870
dumb thoughts.com and one from a, from

2494
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:10,050
Larry Blatner about fighting commies in the USA

2495
01:29:10,730 --> 01:29:12,770
called thatlarryshow.com.

2496
01:29:12,830 --> 01:29:13,810
Yo, CSB.

2497
01:29:14,110 --> 01:29:14,910
Thank you, CSB.

2498
01:29:14,970 --> 01:29:17,550
CSB always coming in with the boost for

2499
01:29:17,550 --> 01:29:18,190
the other shows.

2500
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:18,990
I love that.

2501
01:29:19,570 --> 01:29:21,250
And if you want to support the podcast

2502
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:24,350
index, which is where the money really goes,

2503
01:29:24,370 --> 01:29:26,090
and of course we do stack sats on

2504
01:29:26,090 --> 01:29:28,570
our node for liquidity, those of you with

2505
01:29:28,570 --> 01:29:31,910
an Albi hub, Albi hub is not easy

2506
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:35,510
to open a channel to, and because they

2507
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:38,370
basically have an address of 0.0.0

2508
01:29:38,370 --> 01:29:42,650
.0, so I'm not quite sure how we

2509
01:29:42,650 --> 01:29:44,630
can, if we should be solving that or

2510
01:29:44,630 --> 01:29:47,530
not, but I know there's a lot of

2511
01:29:47,530 --> 01:29:48,650
- Surely there's a way.

2512
01:29:48,970 --> 01:29:50,290
There's a, you'd think.

2513
01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:51,990
I mean, you can open up an outgoing

2514
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:55,290
to us, for example, and you could route

2515
01:29:55,290 --> 01:29:57,590
sats around it, through it to have inbound,

2516
01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:59,390
but I'm not sure.

2517
01:29:59,510 --> 01:30:02,330
Boomi, I think, is working with people.

2518
01:30:02,330 --> 01:30:03,670
That's kind of the whole idea of an

2519
01:30:03,670 --> 01:30:06,610
LSP is you get one channel, but then

2520
01:30:06,610 --> 01:30:08,850
people run out of these channels quickly because

2521
01:30:08,850 --> 01:30:12,170
it's like a million sats, which is a

2522
01:30:12,170 --> 01:30:16,010
lot of money to open that up.

2523
01:30:16,290 --> 01:30:18,710
So it's, anyway, for those of you who

2524
01:30:18,710 --> 01:30:21,130
have nodes that need liquidity, that's what we're

2525
01:30:21,130 --> 01:30:21,570
here for.

2526
01:30:21,870 --> 01:30:23,970
Go to podcastindex.org, scroll down to the

2527
01:30:23,970 --> 01:30:24,150
bottom.

2528
01:30:24,270 --> 01:30:25,830
There is a red donate button.

2529
01:30:25,890 --> 01:30:28,330
You hit that, you get our PayPal.

2530
01:30:28,590 --> 01:30:30,110
You can always support us through that.

2531
01:30:30,970 --> 01:30:33,050
And Sam, I feel like we've only scratched

2532
01:30:33,050 --> 01:30:36,470
the surface today of true fans and all

2533
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:37,830
the things you're doing, but I'm sure you

2534
01:30:37,830 --> 01:30:41,790
will post another eight section on the Mastodon

2535
01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:42,550
so we can catch up.

2536
01:30:42,930 --> 01:30:44,830
And I'll send you more emails, don't worry.

2537
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:46,710
I like your emails.

2538
01:30:47,330 --> 01:30:49,830
I like them because I have to put

2539
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:51,930
them aside and then sit down and read

2540
01:30:51,930 --> 01:30:52,150
them.

2541
01:30:52,190 --> 01:30:54,510
Like, okay, what is Sam doing here?

2542
01:30:54,570 --> 01:30:56,550
I've got to understand, what is he into?

2543
01:30:57,090 --> 01:30:59,010
What I like is that you get five

2544
01:30:59,010 --> 01:31:01,610
emails saying, I need this, I need that.

2545
01:31:01,710 --> 01:31:02,650
Can you please do this?

2546
01:31:02,710 --> 01:31:03,410
Can you please do that?

2547
01:31:03,470 --> 01:31:04,730
And then I get a Sam email and

2548
01:31:04,730 --> 01:31:05,390
I'm like, ah.

2549
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:07,430
I just sit back and read.

2550
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:08,350
Let me just read.

2551
01:31:08,650 --> 01:31:09,870
Yeah, let me read this.

2552
01:31:10,170 --> 01:31:12,210
Followed by a Julie Costello tome.

2553
01:31:12,350 --> 01:31:13,730
And it's just, my day is complete.

2554
01:31:14,230 --> 01:31:15,010
My day is complete.

2555
01:31:15,930 --> 01:31:17,310
Hey, Music Mama, we love you.

2556
01:31:17,630 --> 01:31:18,670
And we love you, Boardroom.

2557
01:31:18,770 --> 01:31:19,610
Thank you for being here.

2558
01:31:19,710 --> 01:31:20,670
Thank you for experimenting.

2559
01:31:20,990 --> 01:31:22,290
Thank you for running with scissors.

2560
01:31:22,510 --> 01:31:24,110
Sam, thank you so much, man, for all

2561
01:31:24,110 --> 01:31:24,490
you do.

2562
01:31:24,970 --> 01:31:27,270
You are pushing real hard and it's very

2563
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:28,130
much appreciated.

2564
01:31:28,770 --> 01:31:29,750
Thank you very much.

2565
01:31:29,850 --> 01:31:30,750
I know, I love doing it.

2566
01:31:30,850 --> 01:31:31,850
So yeah, it's good fun.

2567
01:31:32,230 --> 01:31:33,990
All right, Brother Dave, have a great weekend.

2568
01:31:34,730 --> 01:31:35,210
You too, man.

2569
01:31:35,310 --> 01:31:37,550
All right, everybody, that concludes our board meeting

2570
01:31:37,550 --> 01:31:38,050
for today.

2571
01:31:38,170 --> 01:31:40,370
We will, of course, return with another Podcasting

2572
01:31:40,370 --> 01:31:41,930
2.0 board meeting next Friday.

2573
01:31:42,350 --> 01:31:43,070
We'll see you then.

2574
01:31:43,230 --> 01:31:44,970
Until then, go podcasting.

2575
01:31:47,470 --> 01:31:59,410
♪♪ Why's

2576
01:31:59,410 --> 01:32:00,050
that so cool?

2577
01:32:00,830 --> 01:32:04,950
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.

2578
01:32:05,050 --> 01:32:08,730
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2579
01:32:09,230 --> 01:32:10,670
Go podcasting!

2580
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:13,610
The Southeast is gonna be shut down.