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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for
May 17 2024, episode 180 serial

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churn. Hello, everybody. It's
Friday once again, time for the

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official, the one and only board
meaning of podcasting. 10.0.

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Everybody, everything it all
gets discussed right here.

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That's right. We don't talk
behind your back. We are the

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only boardroom that doesn't have
a booth at a podcast conference.

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If you want to know what's
happened in podcasting, it's all

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here. I'm Adam curry in the
heart of the Texas Hill Country

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and in Alabama, the man who
brings his programmatic Ceman to

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your vast say a lot of my friend
on the other end, the one and

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only Mr. De Jones.

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Dave Jones: says I have to tell
you to rip it twice. Does that

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mean I rip you a new one? Do

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Adam Curry: you really mean
we're in quite the mood today,

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Dave? Oh, yeah, we're in a good
mood. So we started off before

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we started the show, which by
the way, we're live and lit

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every single Friday afternoon.
You can listen to us live and a

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modern podcast app. podcast
apps.com. Anyway, we're like I

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got a rant. I gotta read I got a
rant. But I got something to say

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I ran out because Dave was late.
He was late. And before we even

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start that I want to say there
will be no board meeting next

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week. I will not be in town and
will not be available to record.

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Warren I'm so sorry. Yes, I'm
going to Nashville.

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Dave Jones: Oh, well that's not
bad. For the

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Adam Curry: for the K love the K
love awards.

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Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, this is
yes. This is the is the big the

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big God the God music
extravaganza.

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Adam Curry: Big God music
extravaganza again Alright, so

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what why were you late? What's
your Ran brother? What's going

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on? What's happening? How can I
help?

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Dave Jones: I've spoken many
times in the past about the I'm

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sorry, I'm trying to put down my
salami and cheese.

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Adam Curry: I wondered what I
smelled. But now I know. Cheese

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Dave Jones: is my bread breath.
Yeah, so I've spoken many times

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in the past about the about my
my hatred of USB C docking

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stations.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, so yes, I can.
Yes. And I think I've said don't

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be a hater. But you have not
taken this advice clearly.

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Dave Jones: Okay, so I want to

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Adam Curry: only read up the
hatred is I want to re up the

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hatred now.

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Dave Jones: Yes. So this is this
is a after a couple of hours of

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of troubleshooting. The USBC
dock. We come up with this

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lovely support bulletin from
Lenovo. Oh,

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Adam Curry: and this was a at
the day job. This was a real

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support ticket. uptaking

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Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And
this, these these things are

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just, they're just a nightmare.
Everybody you talk to these

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things have a limited lifespan.
They're crap. Ever since they

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went from old docking stations
you had they had a custom

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connector every every, every big
one. Really. It was like it was

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like

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Adam Curry: 70 penises because
they knew scuzzy. scuzzy

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connector scuzzy.

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Dave Jones: Yeah. Frozen guard,
you know, frozen garden hose

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type, right? Yes. Goes all
proprietary. Everybody had their

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own dealio Yeah, but you know
what they were working every

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single time worked. Yeah, every
time USBC I have a document that

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is like 20 pages. That shows how
all of the routing internally

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happens. Because what you see on
the end of like when you plug in

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a USB C docking station, what
you see on the on the end is

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just a USBC connector, right?
But there is so much going on

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inside of that thing.

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Adam Curry: And ask the
question, is this not

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essentially like a USB dongle
that has no expansion ports?

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Isn't that kind of what this is?
This

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Dave Jones: is no that's it and
this is the problem. USB C

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docking stations modern USB C
docking stations are since our

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Thunderbolt. Oh, they are
thunder either Thunderbolt three

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or Thunderbolt four Oh, system
boards. So these docking

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stations are a synth are like
they have their firmware in

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them. They run they run software
they are they are almost like a

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small computer unto themselves.
Oh, it's

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Adam Curry: like my LED lights.
Yes. Yeah. It also buzzes on

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your microphone.

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Dave Jones: So there are things
that can happen with with these.

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Where, where nothing you do on
the computer For itself

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actually, we'll fix it. You have
to reboot the doc because the

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doc is acting, it's acting.

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Adam Curry: Acting Up. Yeah.
Yes.

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Dave Jones: So the the what you
see at the end of the is the

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USBC cord that plugs into your
computer. But what's happening

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on the inside of that thing is
your route you're actually

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routing, your routing, USB A
USB, excuse me USB one, two and

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three, right, HDMI, HDMI
DisplayPort potentially, if it's

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supported VGA

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Adam Curry: video s video tell
me RGB RGB s video audio

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Dave Jones: networks, gold and
Ethernet Ethernet and and and

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Thunderbolt potentially three
and four Thunderbolt

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Adam Curry: Can you plug in your
your Nintendo data glove?

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Dave Jones: In the Lord little
robot, Nintendo robot big. So

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you're routing all of this stuff
over over, you know, the small

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connections, number of pins. The
amount of things that can go

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wrong with this are limitless.
The so they usually always show

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up with video first. So like in
a in a financial services

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environment. Three monitors is
like standard standard standard.

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Yeah, standard minimum some
sometimes four, sometimes five.

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You see big like trading houses
and stuff they may have 10 Yeah,

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on a single machine. So the
ability to do more than two

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monitors three four monitors is
just standard USBC based docking

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stations Thunderbolt docking
stations, I struggle with this

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so bad. Yeah, they they just
can't handle it. You because

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there's you have different
flavors of DisplayPort over USBC

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you have passive and active in
all of these the end depending

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on which configurations if you
plug it in, if you have one

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HDMI, one display port and one
USB C to display port that may

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trigger them to one of them to
go into a different mode. It's

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mind boggling, but then I run
across this wonderful support

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document. After troubleshooting
for a couple of hours. Lenovo

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critical Intel Thunderbolt
software and firmware updates

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symptom sim systems may
experience any of the following

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symptoms you're ready. Yes, USB
C port not working Intel

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Thunderbolt controller not
visible in the OS device manager

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USB C or Thunderbolt docking
station is not visible or having

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connectivity problems. HDMI
output not available system

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battery not charging with the
USB C power adapter connected to

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the USB C port. Until
Thunderbolt pop up error message

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Intel Thunderbolt Safe Mode
error message BIOS Thunderbolt

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communication error or hang
during post that and here's the

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kit here's the kicker, the white
is more these symptoms may occur

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after six to 12 months of usage.
What

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Adam Curry: are there moving
parts that were or what was

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happening?

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Dave Jones: Hey, you tell me
what does that even mean? That

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sounds

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Adam Curry: like it's crazy.
That sounds like well you know

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that that monitor may have a
driver update or something else

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may change sounds like they're
building in some wiggle room for

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things changing external to the
device.

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Dave Jones: What could possibly
be inside of these things that

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would that would begin to
trigger problems 12 months in

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the future.

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Adam Curry: Oh, I know that
Venezuelan immigrants

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Dave Jones: each Thunderbolt doc
has a has a Venezuelan inside of

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it, I

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Adam Curry: guess. Wow. Okay, I
I feel your pain brother. I feel

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your pain. Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Now multiply this
across hundreds of users in this

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you know, so it's

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Adam Curry: primarily but it's
primarily the multi monitor

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users that are experiencing
issues.

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Dave Jones: What happens is the
they seem to work fine. This is

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like being going to industry
conferences and this kind of

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thing that this has turned into
the USBC dock podcast. But going

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to like industry conferences and
talking to my peers. This is

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universal. It's not it's not
anything with one specific

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vendor. Like evidently the Dell
USB the Thunderbolt docks are so

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bad that like you just go ahead
and budgets 12 to 18 months and

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they're gonna die. Like you just
build that in they they they

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swap them out like crazy. So
this is my Can we please go back

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to the old days standard

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Adam Curry: yuck and you know
that's not going to happen and

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the fact that it's Thunderbolt
is kind of trippy is not what I

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thought that wasn't Apple only
Dang, but I guess it's the

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standard. And

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Dave Jones: these dogs the old
school dogs used to cost $200

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Oh, these these Thunderbolt four
dogs? They're $400.03 foot a

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three foot Thunderbolt four
cable is $75 Wow,

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Adam Curry: what a gyp

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Dave Jones: it's outrageous and
we're going to we're going to so

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tell me we're gonna have driving
cars we can't we can't even get

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three monitors to work over USB
see

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Adam Curry: self driving cars?
Yes.

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Dave Jones: Well self driving
cars

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Adam Curry: Well that brings me
to your overview of the most

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recent presentation by Google at
their i o event. To explain the

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future of the company. Yeah,

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Unknown: I've ai ai ai ai ai ai
ai ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai ai

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ai ai ai, I found the AI really
useful. ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai

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ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai
ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai

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ai ai, ai, ai, ai ai, ai
students ai ai vertex AI

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and that's the father of
generative

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Adam Curry: AI toolkit.
Generative, generative,

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generative ai, ai ai ai, there
it is. Now you know what they're

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up to?

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Dave Jones: Like the one guy
that didn't generate the AI? Is

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that a pretend an Indian or
pretending?

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Adam Curry: No, that's Oh, yes.
I heard that part of the podcast

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as well. The pretending No, no,
that's a real a real Indian.

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Yeah, but before that, I need my
randlett All right, go. This

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morning at eight o'clock. My
phone goes like literally 759

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I'm about to take the dog out
for a walk. I'm gonna NSC. It's

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a 512 number. So it's an Austin
number. I'm like, no, no, you're

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too early. So I just send it to
voicemail. Come back in,

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actually have a call scheduled
at nine and say, oh, yeah, let

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me check this voicemail.
voicemail from Deputy Sheriff

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Jack Barnes Travis County
concerning an urgent legal

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matter calling back at this
number. And I'll be waiting for

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your call.

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Dave Jones: Oh, no.

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Adam Curry: I'm like, Okay, I
call back I get him on the

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phone. Now, it's clearly
Sheriff's Office, just from the

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the sound of it. And that's
legit. And then well, I mean,

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I'm looking at a 512 number then
as a whole, I'm gonna put you on

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with my lieutenant. So
Lieutenant be Neil comes on

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badge number 03156. There are
two there's a warrant out for my

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arrest, because I have failed to
appear as a grand jury expert

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witness. And I apparently signed
on April 15. I signed the

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subpoena that came to my door,
and he has the numbers and

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everything. And, and he says,
you know, basically you can be

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arrested? Yeah. Because you
know, there's a warrant out

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because you have ignored the
subpoena. And you've ignored the

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you're in contempt of court.
And, and then a sudden, you

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know, we get disconnected. So he
calls back. And then he

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continues. And they said now, so
there's two ways you can handle

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this. There's the criminal
procedure or the civil

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procedure. I mean, this goes on,
I'm like, holy crap. And my

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heart is pounding. I'm like,
what? There's

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Dave Jones: the you can there's
an easy way and a hard way we

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can do this is what he's Yes,

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Adam Curry: exactly. And it's
like, I'm like, well, I should

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probably call my lawyer. No, no,
we have a maintain contact

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order, which means we have to
stay in contact with you as you

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drive down to the sheriff's
office. So we can process this.

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And I'm likely, and so this is
going on now. 10 minutes. I'm

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like, holy moly. I'm racking my
brain. I can't figure this out.

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And then he says, so what we
need you to do is you need to go

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to this kiosk, and then you're
going to pay a bond and then

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you'll have a bar code and then
you bring that data say Oh, hold

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00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:20,040
on a second. You got me. You got
me. I said I'm calling my

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lawyer. No, you can't have Oh,
okay. It was a scam. 15 minutes,

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they had police radio in the
background. And it was

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sophisticated. They had my
address my name, of course, my

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phone number. It was
sophisticated. Wow. I'm not

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wanting to fall for something.
But along the way, there are a

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couple of things that started to
bother me a little bit, but I

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was just so blown. I mean, this
actually, I've been asked to be

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a possible character witness for
a friend in Dallas next week.

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was like some bullcrap thing,
but you know, so I've actually

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I've had special agent show up
at my door from the inn.

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Inspector General's office and I
said, I'm not talking to you go

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away, you know, because, you
know, they're just harassing. So

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that was kind of the back of my
mind. I'm like, holy crap, what

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are they doing to me? Is this a
deep state? Finally, finally

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they got me. They found Oh,
wait, I have that somewhere.

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Where is that?

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Dave Jones: Like, so that were
they using? Were they using

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generated voices or something?
Or no,

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Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, it
was it was actual it was actual

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let me see is this it

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there you go.

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Dave Jones: I mean, that was for
real legit like that. So so this

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were these were people that had
like a believable Texas very

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Adam Curry: believable, very
believable. The they had the

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police radio in the background.
It was totally I was in it. I

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was like, oh, man, I'm screwed.

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Dave Jones: Up. You just knew
that you were gonna have to go

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buy $5,000 of iTunes gift card
when

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Adam Curry: it was when it was
when you have to go to a kiosk.

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Wait a minute, what is the US
business? No, no, no, no, no.

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I'm calling my lawyer. No, you
can't. You. You have to what was

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it? You must comply. I'm like, I
comply this. But, but hey, 12 to

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15 minutes. They really have me
Dave. They really really have

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me. That's kind of scary. It's
social engineering. You know,

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it's, it was well done. They had
a script and everything. This is

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Dave Jones: so I was in on a
security. Like a webinar. Not

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too long a webinar. Yes. Yes. It
was great. And this guy's good.

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He does. He's a local guy. Gary
Warners has named me from UAB, a

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University of Alabama in
Birmingham. And he's, he's

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really good. He's been in the in
the cybersecurity game forever.

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And wait, before it was even a
thing really. And he he made a

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statement in this last, like the
annual update from last I think

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it was in December. And he said,
If you know he said it, is it if

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you know, in your family or out
or friends with or neighbors

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with anybody who's older. I
mean, I mean, like, like any

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anybody who's let's just say,
careful, be careful, careful,

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careful. Identify generation,
baby. They said baby boomer or

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older. You're not baby your
genetics.

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Adam Curry: You know, there's a
big disagreement about this. I

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believe I am Gen X 1964.
September. There are some places

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that say you're a boomer Tina
keep because she's definitely

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Boomer because she's 1962. And I
just remind her I was the face

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of Generation X. You were

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm deaf. I'm
definitely Gen X. You're You're

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I think you're Gen X.

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Adam Curry: Well, I know. I'm
Gen X, but there's disagreement

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from some borderline boomers.

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Dave Jones: Are they on the
council? Are they on the Gen X?

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Boomer council that my wife
apparently Yes. You're one of

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us. Don't try to deny. So but he
said, you know, if you if you

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know anybody whose baby boomer
or older tell them about these

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things, because they are a
target right now. Billions of

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dollars is being milked fro

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Adam Curry: Yes. Oh, older
people. I've actually helped

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some people here. Who was going
to be Oh, yeah, no, it took them

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to the bank and everything like
Stop, stop, stop this payment.

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Stop this stop that, you know,
ah, sad. And we've we've had,

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we've had we got a special thing
coming up in church for these

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people. Oh, that's good. Because
then the main thing is, in the,

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you know, text messages, they're
the you know, that's the big,

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that's the big catch all so I
got a text message. So that must

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be official. And what what these
guys got me with was the 512

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00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:09,420
area code that was
sophisticated.

294
00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:13,950
Dave Jones: And in the end, the
local accent and and, and, and

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Adam Curry: the police radio in
the background. That was good.

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And it was loud. You know, like
there was a dispatcher. That was

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quite

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Dave Jones: well, let's see
this. This is in 2023 total

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00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:29,280
losses reported by c three to
those over the age of 62. Up to

300
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$3.4 billion.

301
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,470
Adam Curry: Dude, it's a bigger
industry than podcasting.

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00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,480
Dave Jones: We're the wrong
money with these guys.

303
00:19:43,170 --> 00:19:44,460
Adam Curry: We're in the wrong
business.

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00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:49,110
Dave Jones: Yeah, we should do
how you it's it says tickets is

305
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:55,380
value for value. You give me
money and you don't go to jail.

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00:19:56,850 --> 00:20:00,360
Adam Curry: You know, just kind
of on that, on that tip. But

307
00:20:00,540 --> 00:20:05,580
where everything's going, the
streamers are, are there. It's

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00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:09,240
all going down. It's happening
in real time right before our

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00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:15,600
eyes. We you know, so first of
all the recognition that no one

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is watching television anymore.
I mean, of course there's the

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00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:21,030
people watching obviously
obviously some shows they'll

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00:20:21,030 --> 00:20:23,880
have millions of people
watching, but not 20 million.

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00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:29,250
Dave Jones: Quick Adam, name me
one television show that's on

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00:20:29,250 --> 00:20:30,870
broadcast television right now.

315
00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:34,830
Adam Curry: Now the only thing I
would guess is NCSI but I don't

316
00:20:34,830 --> 00:20:37,860
even know what the which one
Special Victims Unit I couldn't

317
00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:39,330
know I can't name anything

318
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:42,840
Dave Jones: at all six people in
the last week that question not

319
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:44,580
one of them that name one you

320
00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:46,380
Adam Curry: know, this one, they
say how do you go bankrupt

321
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:49,470
really slow and then it goes
fast. All of a sudden this I

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00:20:49,470 --> 00:20:53,340
think we're in the going fast
acceleration phase. And what's

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00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:57,450
happening now is the streaming
companies who of course now you

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00:20:57,450 --> 00:20:59,490
know, now we got to show
profitability. It's not to say

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00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:03,270
that Netflix isn't successful.
Netflix, arguably the earliest,

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00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:06,990
the quickest to the game. And
they've pulled back on a lot of

327
00:21:06,990 --> 00:21:09,750
their a lot of the money they
were putting into production.

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00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:13,410
And of course everyone's now
starting with ads. Everybody has

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00:21:13,410 --> 00:21:17,070
an ad. So we've taken
advertising base television off

330
00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:21,720
of cable primarily. And
remember, cable was brilliant,

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00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,110
because you got paid per
household. So if you just had a

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00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:28,980
channel on cable, this would Al
Gore he bought he bought and

333
00:21:28,980 --> 00:21:32,640
sold the whatever I forget, it
became AlJazeera I think I don't

334
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:38,730
know. Really? Yeah, if you are
in a million households, you get

335
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,920
a million bucks a month. That's
just because it minimum $1 ESPN,

336
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,410
which is still I think required.
You're required to take ESPN by

337
00:21:49,410 --> 00:21:54,210
most cable companies, they get
$7 per subscriber per month off

338
00:21:54,210 --> 00:22:00,450
of that cable bill goes to ESPN
or slash Disney. So now the now

339
00:22:00,450 --> 00:22:04,020
in so we unbundled everything
basically pulled it all apart.

340
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:08,970
We got Disney over here. And we
got Paramount over here. And

341
00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:13,620
we've got Hulu, which was kind
of a sad bundling of television

342
00:22:13,650 --> 00:22:19,380
shows. And now, well, I'm going
to go to the ditzes at Yahoo

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00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:24,360
Finance. two clips. The first
the first one. The first one

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shows you kind of the lay of the
land. The second one I think is

345
00:22:27,150 --> 00:22:29,040
actually the meat of what's
happening here.

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Unknown: Rebbes Lake Alliance
has emerged in the intensifying

347
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,730
streaming wars, Disney and
Warner Brothers discovery are

348
00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:38,250
teaming up to release a brand
new streaming bundle later this

349
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:40,830
year. So what does this new
partnership mean for the

350
00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:43,590
streaming landscape moving
forward? We're looking at how to

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00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:46,350
navigate the big picture with
the Yahoo Finance playbook. And

352
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:48,810
we're joined by Ken Leon,
Research Director of equity

353
00:22:48,810 --> 00:22:52,740
research at CFRA and Jamie
lovingly, third bridge sector

354
00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:54,780
analysts shaping them start with
you. You're here with us in

355
00:22:54,780 --> 00:22:55,650
studio, I really

356
00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:56,730
Adam Curry: want to slap her but

357
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,010
Unknown: man, I just keep
getting like so amused by this

358
00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:05,760
discussion, because it's like
this new innovation bundling,

359
00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:08,370
which is cable. No,

360
00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:10,620
Adam Curry: it's not cable
because these bundles don't get

361
00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:13,950
paid per channel. That's not
true finance lady PayPal

362
00:23:13,950 --> 00:23:16,530
Unknown: did right. But do you
think that this is the way

363
00:23:16,530 --> 00:23:19,440
forward? And is this going to
benefit the various parties who

364
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,220
are doing it?

365
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:22,410
It definitely is interesting
development. And we're seeing

366
00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:25,140
this increasingly in this space.
One thing we've been hearing a

367
00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:27,690
third bridge from the experts we
speak with just the fact that

368
00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:30,810
what streamers are looking for
ways to not only drive growth,

369
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:34,320
but also manage churn is a huge
issue. Serial Turner's are one

370
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,330
of the things which all these
platforms have to deal with his

371
00:23:36,330 --> 00:23:39,120
people, either at the end of
their show, they decided to

372
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,340
switch to a new platform at the
end of a sports season, they

373
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:44,400
decide to just cut off that
service. By having these

374
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,370
bundles, it's a new way that
they can both drive longer term

375
00:23:47,370 --> 00:23:49,440
customer value, but also
showcasing different types of

376
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,130
content, you know, with the
matchup of a Hulu and a max and

377
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:56,250
it Disney plus, it really covers
all the bases of genres and can

378
00:23:56,250 --> 00:23:57,810
appeal to a lot of different
audiences.

379
00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:00,660
Adam Curry: Okay, so a lot of
blahdy blahdy blah, but the

380
00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:03,960
whole point is, they're churning
cereal churn, which is great

381
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,920
show title, actually, cereal
churn, because people are doing

382
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,100
exactly what we've heard
everybody say, Yeah, I just want

383
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:13,890
to see this one show. And then
I'll cancel the minute I sign up

384
00:24:13,890 --> 00:24:18,540
and I pay my What is it now? Is
it 17 $18, which is still pretty

385
00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:22,140
high, but I'll pay that and then
if there's something else going

386
00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:25,980
on, I'll catch it later. Now the
second guy kind of lays out the

387
00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:27,780
the real bones of this. I

388
00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:30,810
Unknown: think when you look at
the bigger picture, it's really

389
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:34,440
a lot of these media companies
trying to figure out how can

390
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,250
they be profitable. So the first
step was reducing programming

391
00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:42,390
and content spending. The second
was de risking, because they

392
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:47,820
have no control really, of the
customer. Unlike wireless, or

393
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:52,920
even cable TV decades ago, you
had one or two year contracts,

394
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:58,860
so churn is very high, they will
never release that. And also, if

395
00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:03,120
you look at where Entertainment
has moved to events to live

396
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,290
sports. So none of these
management's will say that they

397
00:25:07,290 --> 00:25:13,020
can get to a 20% operating
margin on this business, nor a

398
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:18,360
50% EBIT, margin like wireless,
so it's not a great business and

399
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,260
I think they're all de risking,
they're reducing capital, and

400
00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:26,520
they're gonna say, Gee, Netflix
is a winner, large technology

401
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,780
companies can play here, what
can we do for two things, one,

402
00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:35,820
tried to grow subscribers and to
try to get advertising revenue.

403
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:36,870
There

404
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:41,460
Adam Curry: it is. So basically,
we're going to see consolidation

405
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:44,970
Paramount is now being ripped
apart, the all the parts are

406
00:25:44,970 --> 00:25:48,090
going to be the actually the
parts are worth more than the

407
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:51,480
than the whole. And the sum of
the parts individually, it's

408
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,530
going to be ripped apart is
going to be you know, typical

409
00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:59,760
leveraged buyout. So you know,
the strip all the assets, get

410
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,090
rid of Get out, get rid of all
the people with lots of firings

411
00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:08,070
ahead, and there will be some
offerings, but it's all going

412
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:12,240
advertiser base, the big draw of
Netflix and all these other

413
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,240
streamers was hey, man, I just
pay a fee and I don't have to

414
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,390
deal with ads. It's all going to
come back. It's all gonna get

415
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:23,160
crappier. And yes, you will have
still have some big hit shows,

416
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,430
just like in the music business
we have. We still have a Taylor

417
00:26:26,430 --> 00:26:31,380
Swift and a Beyonce and there's
an even there, I'm starting to

418
00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:38,730
see some actual revenue issues.
For Podcasting, value for value

419
00:26:38,730 --> 00:26:42,330
is truly the only way to build
up your community. I don't care

420
00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:46,530
if it's 100 people that it is
the only way forward at this

421
00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:53,100
point. And the advertise and
certainly in podcasting, no,

422
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:59,610
it's just No, it's not working
anymore. Except for per inquiry.

423
00:26:59,610 --> 00:27:04,650
I still like codes. If you get
paid on a code bond, Gino, I

424
00:27:04,650 --> 00:27:07,650
still think that works with what
they what we call a post read I

425
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:14,160
think that's still works. And
you're nothing like a little

426
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,690
boost. Which was well that's
that's a low baller. That's a

427
00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:23,970
7772 Crayon. Yeah. That's
correct. Yes, thank you. Thank

428
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:26,370
you, I'm gonna have to turn that
one off. So you guys are abusing

429
00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:29,400
it. You should only be you
should only be using that just

430
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,150
to accentuate something with the
harp. When you light up the

431
00:27:33,150 --> 00:27:33,510
harp.

432
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:41,100
Dave Jones: I see. I see Eric
pap fixing bugs. So. Yes. And,

433
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,170
you know, you saw I didn't fully
understand what Spotify did with

434
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:50,790
that price floor change on

435
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:52,530
Adam Curry: their bundling.

436
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,470
Dave Jones: No, they said they
said their Spotify Audience

437
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:59,640
Network span

438
00:28:01,260 --> 00:28:06,510
Adam Curry: lowered the worst
name ever. As horrible. Really?

439
00:28:06,510 --> 00:28:11,580
Did you just say spam what?
We're just calling it spam. From

440
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:13,980
now on. We're just calling it
spam. The

441
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:17,670
Dave Jones: marketing jargon
here was was virtually

442
00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:21,780
impenetrable. But I think I
figured it out. They said that

443
00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:25,080
when it's all got to do with
programmatic delivery, like you

444
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,270
know, stitching in the ad as you
as you listen. And evidently

445
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:32,130
they call it a waterfall.

446
00:28:32,190 --> 00:28:34,860
Adam Curry: Yeah, where you're
at the bottom drowning.

447
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:39,720
Dave Jones: It's a waterfall
where your foots in the drain.

448
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:45,690
Yeah. So they have there's like
three layers to this thing.

449
00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:51,150
There's direct sale, or direct
buy and then there's span the

450
00:28:51,150 --> 00:28:55,050
span Spotify Audience Network,
and then there's like

451
00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:58,620
programmatic delivery I guess
that's like we don't have

452
00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:01,680
anything else let's deliver a
Viagra ad or something needed

453
00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:06,030
bottom of the barrel. Yeah, but
but the spec they said they

454
00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:12,420
lowered the price floor on the
span part and I think what that

455
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:18,990
means is that the Spotify
Audience Network will take we'll

456
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:22,560
get more of the of the inventory
delivery.

457
00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:26,610
Adam Curry: Yeah, the the
remnant the low level fruit the

458
00:29:26,670 --> 00:29:30,930
not even fruit is dried up with
dried up. It's like raisins,

459
00:29:31,410 --> 00:29:34,590
Dave Jones: in a way is raisins.
Yeah, it'll win it'll win the

460
00:29:34,590 --> 00:29:39,960
bid more often. So things are
pulling from span more. And like

461
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:46,230
this. You know, we aren't we we
already have seen this

462
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:51,240
subscription stuff. That's,
that's the only way to make

463
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,780
these things work. The
advertising alone can't sustain

464
00:29:54,780 --> 00:30:00,450
it. It's not everywhere you look
it's always which You know

465
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Adam Curry: not gonna last long
kids use it sparingly.

466
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:19,050
Dave Jones: But the I think we
got our we ended up with a wrong

467
00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:22,530
idea of the way that the
monetization of all of this

468
00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:28,080
stuff worked. Because we put
your Facebook and Google, which

469
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:36,060
dominated advertising in May,
obviously makes make billions

470
00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:39,420
and billions of dollars. And so
I think it left us with this

471
00:30:39,420 --> 00:30:44,100
idea that advertising is, is
always in everywhere going to be

472
00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:50,580
a winning strategy for for, you
know, for revenue. But

473
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:54,030
Adam Curry: it's not, but it's
not no, it

474
00:30:54,030 --> 00:30:56,370
Dave Jones: only it's only a
winning strategy if you are

475
00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:59,370
essentially a monopoly in a
business which Google is and

476
00:30:59,370 --> 00:31:05,490
Facebook is. Facebook is, is a
is a virtual I hate this. I hate

477
00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:09,270
the term virtual monopoly. Yes,
but they but you I think you

478
00:31:09,270 --> 00:31:13,530
understand my meaning and the
players within the social media

479
00:31:13,770 --> 00:31:18,660
world. Facebook is as close to a
monopoly as you're gonna get a

480
00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:23,310
Twitter's a, that's a joke. I
mean, it's an also ran. And it

481
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:27,240
Facebook, Facebook is the 900
pound gorilla. Nobody even comes

482
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:28,020
close to second.

483
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,480
Adam Curry: That's because they
they're not really in brand

484
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,360
advertising there. They're like
the classifieds. You know, it's

485
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,600
like, and that's starting to
wane as well be you want, you

486
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,510
want some spam, you want some
bots, go and put an ad on

487
00:31:39,510 --> 00:31:41,970
Facebook. I mean, that's
podcasting

488
00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:45,570
Dave Jones: is the anti
monopoly. Ooh,

489
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,330
Adam Curry: like that is showing
that. You

490
00:31:48,330 --> 00:31:50,250
Dave Jones: know what I mean?
They're there. It's the

491
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,980
podcasting is by definition,
anti monopoly because it is so

492
00:31:55,980 --> 00:32:01,440
diverse. Nobody will ever
dominate. In this in this arena.

493
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:06,060
Even people who have large
audiences, there still only one

494
00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:10,890
show in a person's podcast app.
That person also has, if a

495
00:32:10,890 --> 00:32:13,500
person listens to doesn't matter
if a person listens to three

496
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,340
hours of Joe Rogan a week. That
person also has 17 Other

497
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:21,690
subscriptions. Yeah. And it's
net, it is absolutely the anti

498
00:32:21,690 --> 00:32:25,050
monopoly. And so there's no way
that advertising is going to

499
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:31,680
ever become the main player that
supports podcasting. It's just

500
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,580
not. I mean, I mean, in order to
provide everybody with like,

501
00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:38,460
livelihoods is not happening.

502
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,890
Adam Curry: Well, in addition,
in addition to that, we went

503
00:32:43,890 --> 00:32:48,330
horribly wrong many, many years
ago in podcasting, I would like

504
00:32:48,330 --> 00:32:54,180
to try and explain and this has
come up for me recently, as I am

505
00:32:54,180 --> 00:33:00,300
realizing that the pitch
podcasting is making is pretty

506
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:06,150
much centered around a couple
things right now monetization

507
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:11,760
growing your show video. That's
pretty much the pitch. And when

508
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,090
we first started, okay, so when
we first started podcasting,

509
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:19,410
what was so common, I don't use
this word easily. What was so

510
00:33:19,410 --> 00:33:26,190
awesome was you were hearing
people who weren't professional

511
00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:30,270
broadcasters, they didn't have a
professional delivery.

512
00:33:31,170 --> 00:33:34,980
Unfortunately, it was very hard
to even get a semi professional

513
00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:39,720
sound. And so somewhere along
the line because and I tried it

514
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,740
was 10 years ago, I tried to get
the Kastmaster probe out there

515
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:47,490
and like we need to get people
back into just sitting down

516
00:33:47,850 --> 00:33:51,960
recording and then putting that
out and because we didn't have

517
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:57,450
real time processing basically
we had musician gear you know

518
00:33:57,450 --> 00:34:00,420
that we were that we had
repurposed broadcast gear was

519
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,460
out of control expensive. I
mean, the amount of rigs I have

520
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:11,640
built over the years with DB X
compressor limiters with literal

521
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:19,260
racks with the what I have done
processing units 19 inch boards

522
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:24,570
everything because that was just
too much for people to figure

523
00:34:24,570 --> 00:34:29,730
out and and the sound quality
was so poor without some of the

524
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:37,920
basics we resulted to this
format where you record then you

525
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,300
or preferably you hire someone
who is then going to process

526
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:46,170
that check you chop out all the
arms and the eyes and tighten up

527
00:34:46,170 --> 00:34:50,460
spaces of now you Phil Spector
with a wall of sound brighter

528
00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:54,600
eyes, my big baggy as boys and
we became and we became

529
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,770
something that is just boring
like radio, you know, just we've

530
00:34:58,770 --> 00:35:01,230
kind of reached we kind of
recreate He did that. And we

531
00:35:01,230 --> 00:35:06,180
never really got that. In fact,
Dave Winer, I think he said,

532
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:08,640
This might have been an
interview he did. I'm thinking

533
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,510
James Cridland had this
somewhere. Weiner was concerned.

534
00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:17,040
And it's a valid concern. He was
concerned about me being kind of

535
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,520
the face of podcasting, because
and I think there's something to

536
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,170
this, because people would hear
me and think, Well, I can never

537
00:35:25,170 --> 00:35:30,150
be that professional. Whereas
the idea that you can just be

538
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:34,770
someone who just records a
podcast about your the topic,

539
00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:38,430
that's your passion, about your
community of interest about your

540
00:35:38,430 --> 00:35:42,540
local community, about your
school, your church, your your,

541
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:46,680
your soccer club, whatever it
is. And that that will be Oh,

542
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,650
that's not a good podcast. And I
think we actually that happened

543
00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:53,940
to us, we got to that point
where, well, that's not a good

544
00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:57,210
plug. And now it's even taking
it one step further. If you

545
00:35:57,210 --> 00:36:00,270
don't have headphones on with
mics, and it doesn't say rode on

546
00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:02,820
the boom, and you don't have
video, you're not a podcast.

547
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:09,900
Yeah. And along with that comes
a need because we have serial

548
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:13,740
churn, we have serial churn in
the hosting business. And as I

549
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:16,320
was listening, I've only
listened to a little bit of pod

550
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,280
news weekly review, but as I was
listening about you know, the

551
00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:24,300
the never ending conversation of
purse first party data, bliss

552
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:28,680
and time statistics, etc. A
James and Sam both made valid

553
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,370
points that James says, Look,
stats are very important because

554
00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:37,530
that's kind of the only thing
that the new podcasts are has

555
00:36:37,770 --> 00:36:41,430
that validates what they're
doing is okay, I see a download

556
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:46,890
from from Lithuania. And I'm
sure it's Dolby Das, his mom who

557
00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:50,670
sit in there. And you know, I
won't go into downloads. You

558
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:54,540
know, all these weird kind of
stats. Interestingly, now that

559
00:36:54,570 --> 00:37:00,960
James has seen that, that his,
the Buzzsprout, what does that

560
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:01,620
thing called?

561
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,760
Dave Jones: Fan Mail fan mail,
that

562
00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:08,670
Adam Curry: if he puts that if
he incorporates that into a

563
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:12,120
show, all of Jacksonville,
Florida will send him fan mail,

564
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:16,080
which is of course what
Buzzsprout is located. But the

565
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,340
idea that comments will be one
way totally valid. And then Sam

566
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:24,810
pipes him, but it was kind of
poo pooed a little bit. But what

567
00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:30,270
I have seen when you put someone
on value for value, and they see

568
00:37:30,270 --> 00:37:35,130
Satoshis coming in the mail one
person listening is exciting

569
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:38,820
because you every minute you see
five SATs go by I just had this

570
00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:43,050
experience, a dear old friend of
mine, Vic Pepe, know from the

571
00:37:43,050 --> 00:37:47,280
music business. He's been a big
IT guy now. He started a podcast

572
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,550
called 10,000 miles. And even
though he knows me, and even

573
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:53,400
though I was number two
interview on his podcast, it was

574
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,420
all YouTube is all YouTube. And
you know, he's got the camera

575
00:37:57,420 --> 00:38:00,090
all set up. And everything is
he's done like nine episodes.

576
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,080
And he says, you know, what, do
you got any feedback? I said,

577
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,250
Yeah, turd, you're talking to
the pod father here. And so I

578
00:38:08,250 --> 00:38:13,800
send them to blueberry to vid to
pod any and he gets it set up,

579
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,190
you know, a couple of hiccups
and stuff. But Mike Newman

580
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:20,490
actually very helpful. So he
gets a set up, he puts it out

581
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:25,140
there. Its value for value. And
of course, I boost him

582
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:28,380
obviously, he's all jacked. He's
calling me like, I got gotten a

583
00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:32,700
boost for me. But then he sees
other people just listening, he

584
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:36,840
got a boost. He's like, how does
this happen? It's amazing. So he

585
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,100
is so excited. Just and it's not
about the amount of money. It's

586
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:44,730
just the validation, which he's
not getting from YouTube, on

587
00:38:44,730 --> 00:38:49,020
YouTube, you know, he's got like
100 views, you know, 200 views,

588
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:53,340
my episode was more i I tweeted
it a link or whatever. But in

589
00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:57,270
general, it's just a, it's a
handful of views. And so when he

590
00:38:57,270 --> 00:39:04,650
sees that coming in, he's
excited. And I feel that podcast

591
00:39:04,650 --> 00:39:07,920
hosting companies. Now, of
course, some notable exceptions

592
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,960
who were all in on this train,
need to push that because that

593
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,260
is what's going to retain your
customer. That is the excitement

594
00:39:16,260 --> 00:39:19,710
that people need. And I think
it's great that you know, people

595
00:39:19,710 --> 00:39:23,130
have magic, magic mix music,
sound things and all that to

596
00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:27,060
help people I think all of that
is fantastic. You know, but but

597
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:31,650
we need to maintain the idea
that just anybody can do it. You

598
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,610
stop with this pressure of OH,
you can get out of $10,000 in

599
00:39:35,610 --> 00:39:38,400
advertising. That's not going to
retain anybody. It's

600
00:39:38,430 --> 00:39:45,000
unobtainable, actually. And I
think that we even and this kind

601
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,990
of gave me a thought that you
know, for for comments I hate

602
00:39:48,990 --> 00:39:56,010
using the CAC term, but for
activity pub interactions, the

603
00:39:56,070 --> 00:40:00,930
social interact as it's
technically known Maybe that

604
00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:04,200
should be something the hosting
company should be pushing,

605
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,530
instead of relying on the apps
to do all this work. That was

606
00:40:07,530 --> 00:40:11,940
actually something James said. I
think so too. And I caught

607
00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:13,890
myself going. Yeah, you know, I
think you're right there. I

608
00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:17,460
think that's, that's a really
good point we have, because of

609
00:40:17,460 --> 00:40:20,550
the push we have made, because
of the integrations we have

610
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:24,570
done, we actually got something
to be done that people said

611
00:40:24,570 --> 00:40:27,270
couldn't be done for a decade
was Apple actually did

612
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:30,540
something. Now, yeah, typical
Apple fashion, you know, they do

613
00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:33,150
it their own way. And you know,
their shit don't stink, and

614
00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:35,700
they're better with their
transcripts for I don't care.

615
00:40:35,970 --> 00:40:39,780
They linked to our namespace,
and it's a validation of what

616
00:40:39,780 --> 00:40:43,470
we're doing. I believe we can
push many more of these things.

617
00:40:43,830 --> 00:40:46,650
Now, is it unthinkable that they
would allow you to connect a

618
00:40:46,650 --> 00:40:50,520
wallet, etc. In the future? I
don't know. But I know that my

619
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,530
boy Vic is now pushing 2.0 apps
because he loves it. He loves

620
00:40:55,530 --> 00:41:00,870
the idea of seeing validation
come in. And his hosting company

621
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,860
is blueberry because blueberry
allows that and he was able to

622
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:07,230
figure it out himself, you know,
when he got a wallet and

623
00:41:07,230 --> 00:41:11,400
everything was all set up.
Beautiful. And but now and you

624
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,370
know, I pointed him towards
Saturn because Saturn relaunched

625
00:41:14,370 --> 00:41:19,530
their stats for what is that
it's honestly your I keep

626
00:41:19,530 --> 00:41:22,410
forgetting Saturn dot fly dot

627
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:25,020
Dave Jones: Dev. Yet wonderful.
You

628
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:26,790
Adam Curry: are now it's
horrible. You are I'll be out

629
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:30,090
contracts is still out there.
And then of course for the more

630
00:41:30,090 --> 00:41:34,230
advanced, you know, helipad. And
the same goes for for life. You

631
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:37,470
know, this is the trend people
love listening to live, they

632
00:41:37,470 --> 00:41:40,890
just love it. And you know, what
do we have? I don't even know

633
00:41:40,890 --> 00:41:43,890
what we have in the boardroom
right now. It's like maybe what

634
00:41:43,890 --> 00:41:47,580
20 People doesn't matter. It's
that interaction. It's these

635
00:41:47,580 --> 00:41:50,580
things that are going back and
forth. It's full. If you and I

636
00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:54,750
just did the show and had
nothing but stats and podcast

637
00:41:54,750 --> 00:41:58,200
index dot social, I think it'd
be we'd be a lot less motivated.

638
00:41:58,919 --> 00:42:02,669
Dave Jones: Oh, for sure.
Totally. I don't know what it is

639
00:42:02,669 --> 00:42:06,059
about. Because Because you're
it's no different than just

640
00:42:06,059 --> 00:42:10,979
looking at a spreadsheet. Like,
if you get okay, it's it's the

641
00:42:10,979 --> 00:42:15,239
difference between if we just
talking about purely financial I

642
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,609
mean, like there's, there's, I
think there's a lot more to it.

643
00:42:18,059 --> 00:42:22,409
It's a psychological thing more
than financial. But, but let's

644
00:42:22,409 --> 00:42:26,579
just put it in financial terms,
just for illustrations purposes.

645
00:42:27,269 --> 00:42:35,759
If you if your company is doing
if you just get a spreadsheet at

646
00:42:35,759 --> 00:42:38,759
the end of the quarter, saying
well, you just you know, you

647
00:42:38,759 --> 00:42:42,059
made this much profit. I mean,
that's great, but it's not what

648
00:42:42,059 --> 00:42:43,319
you would call exciting.

649
00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:46,380
Adam Curry: Spread, but not
sexy.

650
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,650
Dave Jones: But if you're a bit
if you're a sales guy, and

651
00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:53,130
you're getting those commission
checks every month, you that's a

652
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:58,920
different thing. There's
something about I don't know how

653
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,060
to explain some value

654
00:43:00,060 --> 00:43:02,430
Adam Curry: for value, I put
this work into it, I got

655
00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:03,420
something back.

656
00:43:03,930 --> 00:43:09,150
Dave Jones: And, but it's more
like the I think the difference

657
00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:18,030
with boosts and streaming sets
is that you're getting pushed,

658
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:23,010
you're getting real time
communication. It feels like

659
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:26,820
like if somebody turns when
somebody listens to your show.

660
00:43:27,570 --> 00:43:30,510
Okay, here, here's a I think I'm
zeroing in on this right now.

661
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:36,780
Okay, so when I listen to a
podcast, I can't control the

662
00:43:36,780 --> 00:43:43,080
show. You hit the play button.
In your, in your now you've

663
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,750
turned yourself over to the
host. They're in control. You

664
00:43:48,750 --> 00:43:53,160
are now just along for the ride.
And you don't and it's there's

665
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,860
an excitement there because
you're not sure what's going to

666
00:43:55,860 --> 00:43:59,100
happen next. Because you're
you're relinquishing your

667
00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:04,350
control. Yes, you've become
passive. And you're experiencing

668
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:10,530
the the podcast. That value for
value is streaming says flips

669
00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:14,070
that back on the podcast or to
where now the podcaster is doing

670
00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:17,700
the same thing. They've
relinquished control and they're

671
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:23,460
watching seeing things happen in
real time as these events come

672
00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:27,210
back to them. Yeah, it's sort of
it's like the most pure two way

673
00:44:27,210 --> 00:44:31,680
street. Because you're it's
almost like your your watch as

674
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,690
the podcaster you're watching
this event happening the same

675
00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:40,380
way your audience is, you know,
I think so. I think it's it yes,

676
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:44,760
there's a financial aspect to
it. And it's always nice to make

677
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,180
some to make some money and that
kind of thing. But like when

678
00:44:48,180 --> 00:44:53,220
you're when that when the harp
triggered a while ago. Yeah,

679
00:44:53,550 --> 00:44:56,850
yeah, was it we didn't know that
was gonna happen and it makes it

680
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:59,970
fun. Yeah, it makes the whole
experience fun because you're

681
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,720
So, now you've engaged your
audience and they're able to

682
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:08,730
bring you on an on an unexpected
journey that you can't control.

683
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:12,120
I think I think that's, I never
thought a bill I like like that.

684
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,830
That's a really cool idea. It's,

685
00:45:13,860 --> 00:45:17,790
Adam Curry: it's important
because it, and I'm saying this

686
00:45:17,790 --> 00:45:20,340
for our hosting company
partners, they're the most

687
00:45:20,340 --> 00:45:25,290
stable part of the entire
ecosystem. And the, you know,

688
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,230
the amount of time and energy
may be nothing for him, I don't

689
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:31,800
know, but what, what Buzzsprout
put into the fan mail app, I

690
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,720
mean, I wish they would have put
that that energy into, you know,

691
00:45:37,170 --> 00:45:41,250
a social interact, they're
there. They're a big player,

692
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,790
when they do something, when in
fact, they were instrumental in

693
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:48,810
moving a lot of these things by
adopting transcripts and

694
00:45:48,810 --> 00:45:53,040
chapters and all these things
early on. And, you know, as one

695
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,340
goes, so go the rest. And then I
love seeing the 2.0 native

696
00:45:56,340 --> 00:46:00,150
companies. I mean, these guys, I
think that there, if you look at

697
00:46:00,150 --> 00:46:02,820
them on a pure profitability
scale, they're probably out

698
00:46:02,820 --> 00:46:06,570
doing percentage wise, bigger
companies, because it's, you

699
00:46:06,570 --> 00:46:09,750
know, it's one guy, right, one
guy who can do everything, and

700
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:14,250
can still handle the relatively
low amount of, of customer

701
00:46:14,250 --> 00:46:17,760
support. But they're really
pushing the envelope really

702
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:23,130
moving the needle on things. I
see what Sam was doing with true

703
00:46:23,130 --> 00:46:26,880
fans, I mean, he's out of
control. He's out of control, is

704
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,370
out of control, you selling
books, and there's all kinds of

705
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:33,240
stuff happening, which is great.
I mean, it's beautiful. It's not

706
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:36,540
all quite, you know, there's not
a lot of ecosystem behind him

707
00:46:36,540 --> 00:46:37,800
yet. But he's worried

708
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,700
Dave Jones: that it's madness.
Yes, it's pure madness. But the

709
00:46:41,699 --> 00:46:44,969
Adam Curry: idea that you want
to give somebody joy for just

710
00:46:44,969 --> 00:46:48,509
being themselves, I'd like to
get back to that. That's what

711
00:46:48,509 --> 00:46:51,329
the podcast industrial complex,
it kind of kind of clicked for

712
00:46:51,329 --> 00:46:54,089
me. I was having a couple of
conversations with people. I'm

713
00:46:54,089 --> 00:46:58,079
like, you know, what, where do
we go wrong with, you know,

714
00:46:58,589 --> 00:47:03,389
here's, we kind of talked about
this last week, but radios main

715
00:47:03,389 --> 00:47:07,709
function. And I've been in radio
since I was 15 years old with a

716
00:47:07,709 --> 00:47:11,189
five watt transmitter in my
little village south of

717
00:47:11,189 --> 00:47:16,619
Amsterdam. Radio has always been
a local medium. So whether it

718
00:47:16,619 --> 00:47:19,259
was the kids in my neighborhood
going, Hey, man, I heard your

719
00:47:19,259 --> 00:47:22,499
signal and my mom drove me
around the block to the closed

720
00:47:22,499 --> 00:47:26,879
hospital radio station at the
tulip Hospital in I'm still

721
00:47:26,879 --> 00:47:30,479
Fein, where it was literally a
captured audience. They could

722
00:47:30,479 --> 00:47:34,499
not leave. And we're basically
just playing requests for them

723
00:47:34,499 --> 00:47:37,409
from their family, etc. For
people who are in the hospital

724
00:47:37,889 --> 00:47:39,959
Dave Jones: that has a really
fun hobby. It

725
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,590
Adam Curry: was great fun. To
the pirate radio stations. Yeah,

726
00:47:43,590 --> 00:47:47,040
we had 150 Watts, we were only
covering Amsterdam, we called

727
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,620
ourselves the rhythm of the
Capitol, you know that we were

728
00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:54,090
just playing dance music, but
really for a dance oriented city

729
00:47:54,090 --> 00:48:01,200
at the time. But to dizzy 100 in
New York, even though that was

730
00:48:01,380 --> 00:48:07,710
you know, 50,000 watts at the
Empire State Building 50,000

731
00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:17,190
Watts, you know, who did a flame
thrower, who? New York. He was

732
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:20,760
still local radio. I was talking
about the local events about the

733
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,790
mayor, you know, all these
things that were local. Now

734
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:26,760
Elvis Duran, who I know really
well. I've known Elvis when he

735
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,160
was still in radio and Austin in
like the in the late 90s. That

736
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,760
he became the morning guy in New
York. It's 100. Of course,

737
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,250
everything got consolidate. He
went to I think they've got

738
00:48:38,250 --> 00:48:43,380
bought by I heart. And so he now
is the morning show guy in eight

739
00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:47,850
cities, eight top markets. And
yeah, they've localized stuff,

740
00:48:47,850 --> 00:48:49,890
you know, in between record.
Hey, it's Elvis Duran in New

741
00:48:49,890 --> 00:48:52,500
York. Hey, it's almost ran in
Houston. Yeah, so they've

742
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,040
localized that, but it's no
longer local, and we've lost our

743
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,810
way in radio, and I'd like to
bring that back. And now we have

744
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,650
all of that capability. In fact,
I've been toying with the idea

745
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,090
of really just starting a local
Fredericksburg, a Fredericksburg

746
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,810
local show that and it should be
live and I don't know if it's

747
00:49:12,810 --> 00:49:15,840
every morning or whatever, but
it needs to be live. It's a

748
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,730
podcast you can listen to
whenever you want

749
00:49:18,270 --> 00:49:22,530
Dave Jones: to please do a
morning show. For greater

750
00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:24,480
Fredericksburg weather.

751
00:49:26,849 --> 00:49:29,249
Adam Curry: There's a lot going
on in Fredericksburg and we only

752
00:49:29,249 --> 00:49:34,019
have one weekly newspaper. And
it's very politically motivated

753
00:49:34,019 --> 00:49:38,729
and it's very left which is you
know, contrary to a lot of live

754
00:49:38,729 --> 00:49:40,679
around here. But it's

755
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,730
Dave Jones: per se that pollen
counts up to 2500. Today you'll

756
00:49:44,730 --> 00:49:45,870
be careful out there. There's

757
00:49:45,870 --> 00:49:48,180
Adam Curry: a lot going on in
Fredericksburg that is not

758
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:51,900
discussed that there is no end
all the all the towns and cities

759
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,360
really have as a Facebook page
where everyone yells at each

760
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,670
other and is useless. So

761
00:49:56,670 --> 00:49:59,190
Dave Jones: college it just a
local college

762
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,390
Adam Curry: Thank you even just
a local call in show. So I've

763
00:50:03,390 --> 00:50:08,370
given myself the the edict to
lift 1000 voices across America.

764
00:50:08,430 --> 00:50:10,650
I haven't figured out what that
means yet, but I'm working on

765
00:50:10,650 --> 00:50:15,150
it. Because and it's actually
you know, this guy, Fernando.

766
00:50:16,050 --> 00:50:17,550
Hold on a second. Let me grab
this

767
00:50:18,690 --> 00:50:20,310
Dave Jones: fernet. Feta net,
Fernando.

768
00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:29,070
Adam Curry: Fernando is Where'd
that come from?

769
00:50:29,310 --> 00:50:30,240
Dave Jones: Did that come
through?

770
00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:35,610
Adam Curry: What was that?
Sorry. That's that was

771
00:50:36,750 --> 00:50:38,370
Dave Jones: the Bluetooth does
work actually.

772
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,870
Adam Curry: I was looking I
don't think I put that into the

773
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:45,750
into helipad. Again,

774
00:50:46,290 --> 00:50:49,470
Dave Jones: I forgot that I
looked up the road caster the

775
00:50:49,470 --> 00:50:50,940
Bluetooth. Okay.

776
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:58,380
Adam Curry: So he so he's a kid
who he came to America from

777
00:50:58,380 --> 00:51:03,720
Brazil with 100 bucks in his
pocket. And, and so he has a

778
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:09,570
full time job. But he started
this company audio sigma. Let me

779
00:51:09,570 --> 00:51:13,740
see if I can find the audio
signal here. Sigma. Yeah, here

780
00:51:13,740 --> 00:51:18,270
we go audio sigma.com. And
actually, Todd turned me on to

781
00:51:18,270 --> 00:51:21,330
be and so you know, we got to
talking. And so he's now built

782
00:51:21,330 --> 00:51:26,490
this thing called, Oh, these are
pretty Yeah, the pod mobile. And

783
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,060
it was all analog, basically
transistor base. And now he's

784
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:33,090
done a DSP version. And he's
actually sent me one I haven't

785
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:37,170
tested and tested on his other
ones. So here is a device that

786
00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:40,770
is about 300 bucks. And it
really does everything it does

787
00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:43,590
everything your road caster can
do, but limited, you know, it,

788
00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:47,790
it's for one or two mics it has
does have the loopback for your

789
00:51:47,790 --> 00:51:50,700
computer, you can actually power
it from the computer doesn't

790
00:51:50,700 --> 00:51:54,570
even have an external supply.
But my point is, here's here's a

791
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,770
an entry level device, and maybe
I have to do some courseware or

792
00:51:58,770 --> 00:52:01,800
something. Thank you Sam Sethi
and Dobby das for getting that

793
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,800
set up because now that now
there's a way to do it to do

794
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,930
courseware to help people just
use your own voice to have a

795
00:52:09,930 --> 00:52:13,230
good sound I just need people to
your sound just has to be good.

796
00:52:13,770 --> 00:52:16,320
This device I've tested these
other ones of his there

797
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,740
dynamite. I mean, I said you
should be handing this out to

798
00:52:19,740 --> 00:52:22,980
Ray Ray roving radio reporters
could you can clip it on your

799
00:52:22,980 --> 00:52:28,230
belt, plug it into your phone,
it sounds fantastic. But you

800
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:32,490
know, like we need to get back
to that place and stop with the

801
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,330
it all has to be professional.
It all has to sound big. It all

802
00:52:36,330 --> 00:52:44,580
has to be perfectly you listen.
I love James Cridland. The way

803
00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:47,790
he speaks. I love his
imperfections. I know he's I

804
00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:51,450
know he has a stutter. I love
that. That that makes him a

805
00:52:51,450 --> 00:52:56,100
human being to me. And he and he
doesn't edit it out and he could

806
00:52:56,100 --> 00:52:58,350
easily do it but he doesn't. And

807
00:52:58,349 --> 00:53:01,679
Dave Jones: Todd, I love I love
to deliver Todd has taught

808
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:05,609
Adam Curry: us voice that is I
mean, if you would go to a radio

809
00:53:05,609 --> 00:53:11,219
station, they laugh you out of
the building that voice No. But

810
00:53:11,219 --> 00:53:14,009
that's what makes it so
beautiful. And we've had these

811
00:53:14,009 --> 00:53:18,989
guys who do stuff live Todd and
Rob they do stuff live. And even

812
00:53:18,989 --> 00:53:23,459
when they're boring me to death,
I can listen to him live. It's

813
00:53:23,459 --> 00:53:27,539
exciting. I can send a boost. I
can I can rag on him I can. This

814
00:53:27,539 --> 00:53:31,019
is where we need to get back to
with podcasting. And we need to

815
00:53:31,019 --> 00:53:36,149
just take a breather on this
incessant non stop advertising

816
00:53:36,149 --> 00:53:40,199
video. Got it? I mean, this is
why no one's making money in

817
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:44,069
podcasting is because you all
gotta hire an editor, Jan briny.

818
00:53:44,909 --> 00:53:49,409
I love her DeVore I trained her
I would say she does value for

819
00:53:49,409 --> 00:53:54,269
value, but she gives away a lot
of her value. Because she has

820
00:53:54,269 --> 00:53:54,929
someone edit

821
00:53:54,930 --> 00:53:59,040
Dave Jones: for her. Yeah,
that's, that's steep. Whereas

822
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:59,580
this, if

823
00:53:59,579 --> 00:54:01,979
Adam Curry: we just learned to
be a little bit better, you

824
00:54:01,979 --> 00:54:05,969
know, by doing it, go ahead and
stumble and make mistakes. This

825
00:54:05,969 --> 00:54:09,509
is this was the I have to credit
my ex wife with my ex ex wife my

826
00:54:09,509 --> 00:54:14,039
first way when I was just
starting out 19 years old is on

827
00:54:14,039 --> 00:54:16,319
television for the whole country
is doing radio, but the

828
00:54:16,319 --> 00:54:20,069
television mainly, you know, and
we do the show was once a week,

829
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:23,249
half the country watch and we'd
be watching at home. And I'd be

830
00:54:23,279 --> 00:54:27,689
I can't believe I flubbed that I
hate. Like I'm mad at myself

831
00:54:27,689 --> 00:54:30,179
because I flubbed a word. I
stumbled over something and she

832
00:54:30,179 --> 00:54:34,289
would look at me and go, you're
not a robot that makes you

833
00:54:34,289 --> 00:54:39,449
human. And then I took that to
heart and ever since I've just

834
00:54:39,989 --> 00:54:42,719
I've given up on it and and I
think I've been pretty

835
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:49,049
successful in my career. By
leaving that stuff in

836
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:52,469
Dave Jones: there, they send my
daughter we had this exact

837
00:54:52,469 --> 00:54:54,779
conversation with my daughter
last night so she's, she's in a

838
00:54:54,779 --> 00:55:04,619
band. And she they had A gig at
an art auction in this it was

839
00:55:04,619 --> 00:55:08,369
basically like a just a
background gig for these high

840
00:55:08,429 --> 00:55:13,229
high dollar art auctions at this
local gallery. And people were

841
00:55:13,229 --> 00:55:16,739
drinking and stuff and it was
his her and four of her buddies

842
00:55:17,399 --> 00:55:22,289
and they played the see they
played boozer made his base made

843
00:55:22,289 --> 00:55:22,919
for walking

844
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,050
Adam Curry: as Nancy Sinatra
classic. Do

845
00:55:27,420 --> 00:55:29,610
Dave Jones: they play creep by
Radiohead.

846
00:55:30,929 --> 00:55:32,069
Adam Curry: Creep I'm doing a
little

847
00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:40,590
Dave Jones: they played well,
what's the the Jets?

848
00:55:42,989 --> 00:55:48,089
Adam Curry: Nana nana nana da.
Well, I found out that one

849
00:55:49,530 --> 00:55:51,390
Dave Jones: day didn't their dad
and

850
00:55:52,650 --> 00:55:59,820
Adam Curry: dad. were sucking
really bad now that 123 Take a

851
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:01,110
look at me. That's the one.

852
00:56:01,260 --> 00:56:04,050
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I can't
remember they played that one. I

853
00:56:04,050 --> 00:56:07,830
can't remember the name escapes
me. But they they played a nice

854
00:56:07,830 --> 00:56:10,110
little set. And so after it's
over, she's like, you know,

855
00:56:10,140 --> 00:56:15,030
she's like, Oh, I messed up. Mr.
Fong crepe. I didn't. I didn't

856
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:17,700
come in at the right at the
right. Part. And I was like,

857
00:56:18,420 --> 00:56:22,800
we're like, you're, you're.
That's that's the beauty here.

858
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:22,830
Are

859
00:56:22,830 --> 00:56:26,820
Adam Curry: you gonna be my
girls language? Here we go.

860
00:56:27,870 --> 00:56:31,650
Yeah. Yeah, who just hit us with
a baller boost. Throw on a

861
00:56:31,650 --> 00:56:35,400
second. Someone hits with the
baller boost. Hello, phantom

862
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,600
power media. Dave, this is
phantom power media. Hello,

863
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,180
Dave, tell your daughter to
apply for our bands at Bitcoin

864
00:56:42,180 --> 00:56:44,880
stage in July. It's an ad. It's
a native ad.

865
00:56:46,949 --> 00:56:48,509
Dave Jones: I will I will
deliver this message

866
00:56:53,010 --> 00:56:55,260
Adam Curry: I'm gonna remove it.
If you guys don't stop that.

867
00:56:55,860 --> 00:56:58,890
Dave Jones: Miss, she'll have
to, she'll have to pay for cover

868
00:56:58,890 --> 00:57:01,350
band or a cover music rights.
Right? Mechanical

869
00:57:01,349 --> 00:57:05,279
Adam Curry: rights. Right? Yeah,
if she does that one. Yeah. But,

870
00:57:05,609 --> 00:57:05,939
you

871
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:08,070
Dave Jones: know, we're telling
her like, Hey, this is your

872
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:10,500
you're playing with a band,
you've only been playing for the

873
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:14,910
band for a couple months. This
is part of this is how you learn

874
00:57:14,910 --> 00:57:18,210
by failing. Yes, you know, you
learn you, you you go out you.

875
00:57:18,330 --> 00:57:19,890
Because that's another thing
with

876
00:57:20,399 --> 00:57:22,439
Adam Curry: auto channel. That's
another thing that screwed

877
00:57:22,439 --> 00:57:24,269
everything up. Oh, so

878
00:57:24,270 --> 00:57:27,960
Dave Jones: much giving up
control, when that's another

879
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,810
time that you give up control.
And that's one of the things

880
00:57:30,810 --> 00:57:36,030
that makes playing live with a
band. So exciting. Yes. And Eric

881
00:57:36,030 --> 00:57:38,910
peepee literally said the exact
same thing. Same Time I Saw

882
00:57:38,940 --> 00:57:43,260
that's what makes it exciting is
that you don't know what's going

883
00:57:43,260 --> 00:57:46,650
to happen. And you're putting
your own performance in the

884
00:57:46,650 --> 00:57:50,760
hands of other people. Because
the drummer may screw up. And

885
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,060
you know what, it's your job to
save that to save the drummer.

886
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:57,930
Yes. And everybody's in it
together. play bass, play bass.

887
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,440
This band is kind of cool,
because they all swap out and

888
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,190
play everything. Oh excheap The
one of the songs she plays drums

889
00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:09,330
one song she plays guitar once
on that she plays bass. And they

890
00:58:09,330 --> 00:58:13,320
all kind of like in between
songs. They all shuffle. Which

891
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,990
makes it even more complicated.
Of course, you're gonna miss

892
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:21,720
out. But good drummers now.
Yeah, right. But anyway, that

893
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:25,620
now I think I think you're
right. I think the return to

894
00:58:25,620 --> 00:58:30,630
load. Podcasting is perfect for
local. Because yes, like

895
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:36,450
imagining that, that, especially
now that we can do live over

896
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:40,410
podcast apps. I mean, that's
perfect. You. I'm just imagining

897
00:58:40,410 --> 00:58:45,660
a return to that to your
hospital DJ. Yep, scenario where

898
00:58:45,660 --> 00:58:49,410
it's like, you know, Hey, man,
floor three Myrtle and room 302.

899
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,000
You know, we were here he is,
you know,

900
00:58:51,420 --> 00:58:54,390
Adam Curry: did I ever tell you
what we would do with when we

901
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:58,110
had a coup, we had our show on
Friday night. And I was I was

902
00:58:58,110 --> 00:59:01,170
the NG I was 15. I was the
engineer. So what you do is you

903
00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:04,560
go before the show started,
you'd hand out request forms,

904
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,180
which are just pieces of paper.
I was 15. So that's 45 years

905
00:59:09,180 --> 00:59:13,530
ago. And, and they would fill it
out. And then we take those back

906
00:59:13,530 --> 00:59:17,490
and we'd start the show. But the
studio was in the corner of kind

907
00:59:17,490 --> 00:59:21,030
of a an auditorium not huge, but
you know, where they would have

908
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:25,980
like small, like a bit like a
three times a conference room

909
00:59:25,980 --> 00:59:31,020
just put and the window. The
Double Glass was right there. So

910
00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:34,170
it was in the corner so you
could see people in the studio,

911
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,370
and the studio could see out. So
what we would do is we would

912
00:59:38,370 --> 00:59:42,750
actually get the kids and we
would roll their beds down into

913
00:59:42,750 --> 00:59:46,800
the auditorium. Oh, that's cool.
And then but we were playing I

914
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,040
remember it well. Iggy Pop lust
for life. Remember that song? I

915
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:55,260
got a lust for life. A little
bit like the Jets actually. And

916
00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:58,290
so while that was playing, we
got and we put we play bumper

917
00:59:58,290 --> 01:00:01,440
beds with the kids we'd be
bummed. The beds again. I

918
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,410
actually learned how to reinsert
an IV from that experience,

919
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,660
like, crap. I can't come over
here. Like, we're not all over

920
01:00:09,660 --> 01:00:14,400
the place. But yeah. And it was
arguably one of the most fun

921
01:00:14,940 --> 01:00:19,230
times of my career and was,
yeah, it was. It was unpaid. It

922
01:00:19,230 --> 01:00:25,350
was a, you know, it's just a
volunteer work. But yes, there's

923
01:00:25,350 --> 01:00:28,710
local communities of interest,
community, geographic

924
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:32,550
communities, but I think we've
come the open, wide open

925
01:00:32,550 --> 01:00:35,040
opportunity. And I'm going to
tell you something, I'm going to

926
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:40,140
prove this. If I even if I'm not
hosting, if I'm just exec

927
01:00:40,140 --> 01:00:42,900
producing, or whatever I am
doing because it's that's part

928
01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:48,660
of my mission is I need to find
new people to do stuff. I think

929
01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:53,490
it can be run, where it would
pay for itself and that people

930
01:00:53,490 --> 01:00:56,310
would, you know, maybe it's not
a full time gig, but I think a

931
01:00:56,310 --> 01:01:01,200
local community would support a
local station, a local, a local

932
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,860
show, I think it would support
that it really would. Well,

933
01:01:04,860 --> 01:01:11,520
Dave Jones: you already did in a
in the the now lost to history,

934
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:16,410
the last episode of podcasting
2.0 That you did a you did a

935
01:01:16,410 --> 01:01:21,660
request a music request show.
And that was arena over boosts.

936
01:01:22,229 --> 01:01:25,289
Adam Curry: That was the most
highly boosted episode ever.

937
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:28,619
Dave Jones: Yeah, ever of all
time. Yes. And this like so

938
01:01:28,619 --> 01:01:32,939
there's no you now have in 2.0
ABS you can now do live streams

939
01:01:32,939 --> 01:01:37,649
and boosts and you can get
that's there you go. You have

940
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:43,349
you have a call in request show
right there. So I think you

941
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:46,079
know, the other thing like is my
daughter, my oldest daughter,

942
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:54,269
she's 22. She you're the last to
face her work show. Yeah, that's

943
01:01:54,269 --> 01:02:01,559
right. We she's in she's in
communications, like, mass

944
01:02:01,559 --> 01:02:08,579
communications. And so she was
told recently, basically, that I

945
01:02:08,579 --> 01:02:13,409
forgot who this was no future
kid. It was almost like that.

946
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:17,309
She she's made. She's majoring
currently in, in mass

947
01:02:17,309 --> 01:02:23,519
communications. And the person
told her basically do not go

948
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:26,369
into do not think that you're
going to go into local

949
01:02:26,369 --> 01:02:29,219
television because it's dead.
Oh, yeah, that's exactly what

950
01:02:29,219 --> 01:02:32,369
you've been saying the last
couple of weeks. He said local

951
01:02:32,399 --> 01:02:34,949
local affiliates shutting down
or shutting

952
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:38,040
Adam Curry: down. You know,
chat, if just the post in the

953
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,500
boardroom, you said you just
described homegrown hits. You've

954
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:45,360
never heard that show. It's
exactly right. Also, the no

955
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,360
agenda stream which is now
that's been around so long that

956
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,420
that's really become its own
entity. And that is 24 hours a

957
01:02:51,420 --> 01:02:55,050
day. But people literally tune
in to hear Darren Oh, on

958
01:02:55,050 --> 01:02:58,020
Thursdays and Sundays they tune
in to hear nick the rat on

959
01:02:58,020 --> 01:03:02,460
Wednesdays they tune the tuning
in. Then you have in the smoker

960
01:03:02,460 --> 01:03:08,550
you've got oh my goodness, beers
with buds, but you know, buds

961
01:03:08,550 --> 01:03:12,540
with buds beard and smoking
buds. There's all these

962
01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:17,070
different shows. And it's all
within that same ecosystem of

963
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,730
very simple chat room, the
booster grams have become super

964
01:03:20,730 --> 01:03:25,290
important. And it's not. It's
not that Darren O is retiring?

965
01:03:25,530 --> 01:03:28,500
No, it's It's the feedback
mechanism is the hey man you

966
01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:31,740
boosted cool, you see it in the
chat room, the host responds to

967
01:03:31,740 --> 01:03:36,300
it. This is stuff that that
actually will. That is working,

968
01:03:36,330 --> 01:03:41,460
the proof is there. And we need
a little more engagement, I

969
01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:45,180
think from the hosting
companies, not all and I'm not,

970
01:03:45,450 --> 01:03:48,990
I'm generalizing to a huge
degree. And I'm also extremely

971
01:03:48,990 --> 01:03:53,010
grateful with all the hosting
companies have done so far. But

972
01:03:53,010 --> 01:03:54,510
we can do more. And

973
01:03:54,570 --> 01:03:57,120
Dave Jones: I don't see why
these local reporters for local

974
01:03:57,150 --> 01:03:59,760
stations couldn't just strike
out on their own and do and do a

975
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:01,050
local oriented podcast. And

976
01:04:01,050 --> 01:04:03,180
Adam Curry: we'll see we'll see
some of that. But a lot of that

977
01:04:03,690 --> 01:04:07,170
a lot of that culture and
attitude is not easy to break. I

978
01:04:07,170 --> 01:04:10,950
mean, the idea that you're going
from we'll be right back after

979
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:16,260
these messages to begging for
money grifting you know, all the

980
01:04:16,260 --> 01:04:20,730
stuff that gets thrown at your
head. That's a very tough change

981
01:04:20,730 --> 01:04:24,600
for most people. Now I wanted as
a part of this since we have the

982
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:29,700
Phantom the Phantom people in
the nmpa National Music

983
01:04:29,700 --> 01:04:33,030
Publishers Association sent a
very damning letter to Spotify

984
01:04:33,030 --> 01:04:35,880
and this is important that
pertains to us. And Jim actually

985
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:43,560
posted on podcast index social
about this. They say let me see

986
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,340
where this is. It has come to
our attention that Spotify

987
01:04:47,340 --> 01:04:51,360
displays lyrics and reproduces
and distributes music videos and

988
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,680
podcasts using musical works
without the consent of or

989
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,970
compensation to the respective
publisher and or administrators.

990
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,690
are members in Perkins, who
control the copyrights in the

991
01:05:03,690 --> 01:05:07,410
musical compass compositions. As
such, these uses of musical

992
01:05:07,410 --> 01:05:10,170
works on the Spotify platform
are not licensed or will soon

993
01:05:10,170 --> 01:05:17,070
become unlicensed. So this is
very interesting. I'm not so

994
01:05:17,820 --> 01:05:20,670
this is probably more about
lyrics and the music videos, but

995
01:05:21,150 --> 01:05:24,150
the fact that put podcasts in
there is important because

996
01:05:24,330 --> 01:05:27,240
you're going to see podcasts
come down very quickly from

997
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:32,670
Spotify. And a lot of them
because people are using music

998
01:05:32,700 --> 01:05:36,720
in in so many different ways
that is unlicensed, because you

999
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:40,380
literally can't license it from
from the traditional systems.

1000
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:44,100
And Spotify will not think
twice, it'll be hooked, gone,

1001
01:05:44,100 --> 01:05:46,770
quick, gone, hook gone hook,
it's gonna be they're gonna be

1002
01:05:46,770 --> 01:05:51,480
running algos on it, it's going
to be gone, gone, gone. And even

1003
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,090
if it's just mute, they're not
even going to check and see if

1004
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,090
they if it's licensed, I just
going to remove it. Big

1005
01:05:57,090 --> 01:06:01,140
opportunity. The main thing we
need to shore up and we have a

1006
01:06:01,140 --> 01:06:04,470
version of it, we don't have
everything perfect. But I would

1007
01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:08,850
think we need to implement the
music license, the remote item

1008
01:06:08,850 --> 01:06:13,530
license, whatever we call it for
inclusion of a bit of someone

1009
01:06:13,530 --> 01:06:16,470
else's work in your podcast, I'd
like the remote item licensed

1010
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:21,300
better than a music license.
That was the same thing. So this

1011
01:06:21,330 --> 01:06:26,940
this is not not I'm not talking
about an RSS feed of songs. Now.

1012
01:06:27,540 --> 01:06:31,200
There's a whole bunch of issues
that have come up that that we

1013
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,850
need to discuss but purely
remote item. License. Yes, you

1014
01:06:35,850 --> 01:06:39,810
can use this under the value for
value auspices. The it's been

1015
01:06:39,810 --> 01:06:43,170
written, it's out there, I think
it just needs to be added to the

1016
01:06:43,170 --> 01:06:45,960
namespace and link so people can
include it.

1017
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,690
Dave Jones: Is that the case?
Honestly, no. So I feel so ill

1018
01:06:51,690 --> 01:06:57,180
equipped to deal with something
like this, that I feel like I

1019
01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:59,940
need somebody else to just give
me the wording to put

1020
01:07:01,020 --> 01:07:03,630
Adam Curry: to put I'm gonna,
I'm gonna carry this, I'm going

1021
01:07:03,630 --> 01:07:06,090
to carry this. I'm going to
carry this the

1022
01:07:06,270 --> 01:07:10,290
Dave Jones: I think the lat to
me where it fell off a cliff was

1023
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,530
all of a sudden it took a turn
into. Yeah, and we need to be

1024
01:07:13,530 --> 01:07:16,530
able to block certain apps from
being able to play certain

1025
01:07:16,530 --> 01:07:19,020
music. And I was like, Whoa, I
mean that

1026
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:23,400
Adam Curry: the Exactly. So the,
the way I don't carry this Dave

1027
01:07:23,430 --> 01:07:27,270
and I will I'll get the
consensus and everything. So

1028
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:31,440
there's a couple things one, I
in this is the main thing we

1029
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,460
have to understand. If you have
an RSS feed, and you have an

1030
01:07:35,460 --> 01:07:40,890
enclosure, and that enclosure is
an mp3, there is no difference

1031
01:07:41,130 --> 01:07:48,990
between it being dry, dred
Scott's ISO, a feed, no agenda,

1032
01:07:49,020 --> 01:07:54,150
three and a half hour shows, or
a three minute song. In the

1033
01:07:54,150 --> 01:08:00,360
world of podcasting, they are
equal, ergo, therefore, if

1034
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,050
you're going to like that, as my
lawyer talk, you sound like a

1035
01:08:04,050 --> 01:08:09,030
philosopher is Raha ergo,
therefore, the remote item

1036
01:08:09,060 --> 01:08:14,250
license is how I view this. So
it's not because it's a song.

1037
01:08:14,820 --> 01:08:19,200
Because I feel that what if I
make a great joke, or there's a

1038
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,960
great a great bid, and someone
wants to include that in their

1039
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,560
show, just as valuable to me, as
someone who spent three years

1040
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,980
writing a song, you may not
think that's fair, but in the

1041
01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:34,470
world that we're dealing with,
they're equal. And so we need

1042
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:37,440
the mechanism, if you're going
to include something in your

1043
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:41,220
show, and it's in the realm of
value for value, you should be

1044
01:08:41,220 --> 01:08:44,400
able to say from this moment in
time to this moment in time,

1045
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:49,380
switch the wallets. It's coming
from over there. And I think we

1046
01:08:49,380 --> 01:08:54,060
can add into that, a minimum
requirement. So you got to give

1047
01:08:54,060 --> 01:08:59,130
me minimum 50%. You know, of the
value block, take more if you

1048
01:08:59,130 --> 01:09:02,790
want. I mean, I think that's and
it's always all going to be

1049
01:09:02,820 --> 01:09:06,450
gentlemen's agreement, general
woman's agreement, Gen Zers

1050
01:09:06,450 --> 01:09:12,660
agreement. But we need that at a
minimum to protect ourselves.

1051
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,980
Even though we're all going to
get kicked off a Spotify and AB

1052
01:09:16,980 --> 01:09:21,120
it's all coming. This is why we
built this Dave, because they

1053
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,790
will not discriminate. You got
music and your podcast, you're

1054
01:09:23,790 --> 01:09:27,000
done goodbye. They're not going
to check. They don't care. They

1055
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,990
got no infrastructure to see.
It's just like YouTube, as you

1056
01:09:30,990 --> 01:09:33,960
know, like tick tock, it'd be
muted, all the all these

1057
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:38,610
problems are coming, but we can
solidify for ourselves that we

1058
01:09:38,610 --> 01:09:41,130
have the agreement and we're all
cool with each other.

1059
01:09:42,990 --> 01:09:45,000
Dave Jones: So you think they're
gonna start taking down stuff

1060
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:49,620
that's not even guaranteed?
There's not even related to

1061
01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:51,210
this, you know, an

1062
01:09:51,210 --> 01:09:54,810
Adam Curry: example our church
which I believe so our church

1063
01:09:54,810 --> 01:09:57,990
has a worship team, which as we
all know, is Christian for band.

1064
01:09:58,530 --> 01:10:00,630
So they were worship teams. And
the worst is

1065
01:10:00,630 --> 01:10:03,180
Dave Jones: to drummer have the
plexiglass you better believe

1066
01:10:03,180 --> 01:10:03,270
it?

1067
01:10:04,380 --> 01:10:06,240
Adam Curry: Yes, you better
believe it. Yeah, he's got the

1068
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:11,400
cage. So the worship team
licenses music, from you know,

1069
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:15,240
there's a whole industry, and it
puts the words up on the screen.

1070
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,530
So everybody can sing holy,
holy, holy, and hands in the

1071
01:10:19,530 --> 01:10:23,580
air, like, we just don't care.
And it's license, they pay

1072
01:10:23,580 --> 01:10:28,350
rights. And those rights are
also for use in recordings on on

1073
01:10:28,350 --> 01:10:34,020
YouTube. And every month, at
least once YouTube takes down

1074
01:10:34,020 --> 01:10:36,840
one of the sermons because they
say you got to strike because

1075
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,750
you use the license work, even
though they have the right to

1076
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:43,230
use it, they have the paperwork,
it's backed up, it's, it's an

1077
01:10:43,230 --> 01:10:46,860
established system, which has
been going for decades, the

1078
01:10:46,860 --> 01:10:50,760
system still takes the whole
thing down. So that's going to

1079
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:56,250
happen at Spotify now. It's just
going to happen. So we need our

1080
01:10:56,250 --> 01:11:02,820
stuff to be tight. So that when
content producers, whether they

1081
01:11:02,820 --> 01:11:08,400
make music or audio books, or
whatever it is, we need a system

1082
01:11:08,490 --> 01:11:12,780
that is fair, and and and and
open and everybody can

1083
01:11:12,780 --> 01:11:17,340
participate in. Hey, I made 100,
I made 100 SATs on this. Here's

1084
01:11:17,340 --> 01:11:18,000
your ad.

1085
01:11:19,410 --> 01:11:24,450
Dave Jones: So in and the
license in the feed is a signal.

1086
01:11:24,780 --> 01:11:28,590
Yes, yes. This is this has this
has been covered.

1087
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,680
Adam Curry: Covered. Yeah, it's
just it's just like Creative

1088
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,700
Commons. Except, you know, we do
it under this this particular

1089
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:39,540
license. Now. I know that we're
going to run into all kinds of

1090
01:11:39,540 --> 01:11:42,630
problems down the line and
disagreements, et cetera over

1091
01:11:42,660 --> 01:11:47,910
music itself. I can't deal with
that right now. All I can deal

1092
01:11:47,910 --> 01:11:52,140
with is the inclusion of a
remote item. That part I want to

1093
01:11:52,140 --> 01:11:56,640
shore up so that when when the
Exodus takes place, people know

1094
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,380
they can come here. They can
come into this ecosystem, and

1095
01:12:01,380 --> 01:12:04,380
they can promote the apps that
understand and do this and

1096
01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:08,880
promote the apps that give the
pass the value through. We will

1097
01:12:08,910 --> 01:12:15,540
we will overcome may pleasing
Grace

1098
01:12:15,570 --> 01:12:16,830
Dave Jones: shall over.

1099
01:12:19,170 --> 01:12:23,640
Adam Curry: We will we will. So
remote item license is what I'm

1100
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:28,230
looking at. Okay, remote, so you
can use this content no matter

1101
01:12:28,230 --> 01:12:34,110
what it is at as a remote item.
Here's my here's my my baseline

1102
01:12:34,110 --> 01:12:39,900
requirement. And the technology
actually handles most of it. The

1103
01:12:39,900 --> 01:12:42,600
technology handle, you know if
it needs to be surfaced what

1104
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:47,220
this is, you know, just like
when I look at I'm at podcast

1105
01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:50,820
Guru, I look at the sidestream
music podcast by the way, Cody's

1106
01:12:50,820 --> 01:12:55,260
a great great episode this week
was music Tony Hawk screwed up

1107
01:12:55,260 --> 01:12:59,820
on and didn't put it in his in
his game. Really good as read

1108
01:12:59,820 --> 01:13:03,540
all the funny music. Yeah, it's
very first great promotion. I

1109
01:13:03,540 --> 01:13:07,080
can go on, I hit the V for V tab
and I see all the songs. I could

1110
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,620
save those songs to a playlist,
I could boost them separately, I

1111
01:13:10,620 --> 01:13:13,770
can play them separately, I can
get into the arts and that that

1112
01:13:13,770 --> 01:13:16,710
stuff that technology, that
remote item Thank you Alec says

1113
01:13:16,740 --> 01:13:23,400
is taken care of, is taken care
of all that is done. So our

1114
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:27,060
stuff will be tight. So that
whenever anybody thinks they're

1115
01:13:27,060 --> 01:13:30,600
gonna come and mess with us,
they won't even come be that let

1116
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:32,550
those guys play over there.
They're not the real music

1117
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:36,840
industry. Okay. Well, we've
we've got, we've got some kind

1118
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:37,650
of, you know, what, what is the

1119
01:13:37,650 --> 01:13:40,800
Dave Jones: remote item license
actually protect against

1120
01:13:41,940 --> 01:13:45,150
Adam Curry: protects against
nothing. It's an agreement the

1121
01:13:45,180 --> 01:13:49,560
EU. It's just like a Creative
Commons. If you really want to

1122
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:54,810
take someone to court, you can
create and I've, I've, I've

1123
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:58,380
proven the Creative Commons
copyright works in court for

1124
01:13:58,380 --> 01:14:03,930
that very reason. But it still
comes down to a basic

1125
01:14:04,170 --> 01:14:07,290
understanding and agreement like
everything, it's only as good as

1126
01:14:07,290 --> 01:14:08,910
the paper it's written on.

1127
01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:12,030
Dave Jones: And this is

1128
01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:16,680
Adam Curry: this wood. It's not
protecting against it really

1129
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,220
doesn't protect you against
anything except someone using it

1130
01:14:20,220 --> 01:14:25,560
and not passing on any payment
to you. But we have no cops.

1131
01:14:26,430 --> 01:14:29,220
We're never gonna have cops to
go out there. But you can say,

1132
01:14:29,220 --> 01:14:33,780
Hey, man, this is under the
remote item license. So would

1133
01:14:33,780 --> 01:14:36,090
you please make sure that you
put that into your feed

1134
01:14:36,090 --> 01:14:38,670
properly? That's really all that
you can do in

1135
01:14:38,670 --> 01:14:42,870
Dave Jones: that, so so it's a
matter of if you're going to use

1136
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:45,630
this, you need to use a remote
value split.

1137
01:14:45,870 --> 01:14:49,410
Adam Curry: Yes. And to answer
cotton gins question. Yes, the

1138
01:14:49,410 --> 01:14:54,330
splits. The splits accomplish
this, but it's it gives you a

1139
01:14:54,330 --> 01:14:56,670
little bit of backup with a
legal document and I think we

1140
01:14:56,670 --> 01:14:59,250
should have a minimum
requirement and the minimum

1141
01:14:59,250 --> 01:15:03,600
should always be baseline 5050.
But as you can say, You know

1142
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:10,500
what I'll I'll say I'll settle
for or do I want 90%? Now, can

1143
01:15:10,500 --> 01:15:15,750
you stop someone from doing it?
No, you'd have to bring action

1144
01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:19,410
against them. But guess what?
This isn't a world. This is

1145
01:15:19,410 --> 01:15:22,950
about just making it clear what
I'd like and what that I want

1146
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:26,700
this system in play, it's
solidifying, what splits are

1147
01:15:26,700 --> 01:15:31,110
it's solidifying what the remote
item is? Yes, please use my

1148
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:36,090
content in this manner. Here's
the requirements that I have. If

1149
01:15:36,090 --> 01:15:40,290
you want protection code, ASCAP,
BMI, sia EA

1150
01:15:40,290 --> 01:15:42,300
Dave Jones: keeps you from
built. I think I'm understanding

1151
01:15:42,300 --> 01:15:45,180
this now because it was just, I
think, kind of what you're

1152
01:15:45,180 --> 01:15:50,310
saying is it keeps you from
having to build essentially the

1153
01:15:50,310 --> 01:15:53,880
exact same structure that
already exists exactly. Again,

1154
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:59,670
which which has which will have
the exact same problems as the

1155
01:15:59,670 --> 01:16:05,400
other system course. It's
centralized and, and punitive.

1156
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:06,420
Yes.

1157
01:16:06,690 --> 01:16:09,210
Adam Curry: Very punitive. Now,
if you think you're gonna get

1158
01:16:09,210 --> 01:16:12,060
rich by anyone thinks they're
gonna get rich, by all means,

1159
01:16:12,150 --> 01:16:15,150
don't have your music played on
podcast, don't get it played

1160
01:16:15,150 --> 01:16:18,720
anywhere, you know, put it into
iTunes and have fun. Good luck.

1161
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,280
Absolutely. If you want to have
an audience, and you want to

1162
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:29,850
have value returned to you.
That's why you're with us. Yeah,

1163
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,390
there's not enough room in the
world for all the people to be

1164
01:16:33,390 --> 01:16:39,240
successful and making you know,
quit your job money. Look at

1165
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:45,300
this podcast 180 episodes not
quitting any job. For sure, but

1166
01:16:45,300 --> 01:16:47,640
I love what I do and I love my
truck.

1167
01:16:50,250 --> 01:16:56,400
Dave Jones: There's no there's
not there's not a the Creator

1168
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:02,820
middle class is just, it's never
going to be a thing. No. Well, I

1169
01:17:02,820 --> 01:17:05,220
Adam Curry: don't think you can
I think you know, touring I

1170
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:09,510
think you can do a lot. You
know, a lot of people have a lot

1171
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:14,310
of love for what they do. No
doubt about it. I mean, we're an

1172
01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:18,420
unrestrictive system where you
know, the traditional systems

1173
01:17:18,420 --> 01:17:21,660
are all that Why is everything
failing because they no longer

1174
01:17:21,660 --> 01:17:24,930
control the distribution once
podcasting came in distribution

1175
01:17:24,930 --> 01:17:29,940
was open Why does everybody
wants to the move to YouTube why

1176
01:17:29,940 --> 01:17:32,940
because they control the
distribution move to Spotify,

1177
01:17:32,940 --> 01:17:35,460
because they control the
distribution they controlled it

1178
01:17:35,700 --> 01:17:38,100
but that's the way it's always
work and those days are just

1179
01:17:38,100 --> 01:17:41,130
oversee the billion dollar
Spotify blue

1180
01:17:43,770 --> 01:17:48,510
Dave Jones: at this, this
actually sort of tend sort of

1181
01:17:48,510 --> 01:17:52,530
tangents into a kind of wanted
to talk about that Jack Dorsey

1182
01:17:52,530 --> 01:17:56,490
interview. Did you read that? I
did. The one in pirate wire.

1183
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,230
Adam Curry: I did. I read the
whole thing. You bet.

1184
01:18:01,110 --> 01:18:02,970
Dave Jones: That he said this
has some stuff in there. That

1185
01:18:02,970 --> 01:18:11,820
was pretty pretty noteworthy to
me. I think they're all so let's

1186
01:18:11,820 --> 01:18:18,540
see. The you talking about this?
It kind of reminded me of, of

1187
01:18:18,540 --> 01:18:24,990
him. He talked some about blue
sky. He says, here's one thing

1188
01:18:24,990 --> 01:18:33,690
he said. He said what is the
anti Twitter? He's talking

1189
01:18:33,690 --> 01:18:35,970
about? Blue Sky says what what
happened is people started

1190
01:18:35,970 --> 01:18:40,470
seeing blue skies, something to
run to away from Twitter. It's

1191
01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:43,920
the thing that's not Twitter.
Therefore, it's great. And blue

1192
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,850
sky saw this exodus of people
from Twitter show up. And it was

1193
01:18:47,850 --> 01:18:51,390
a very, very common crowd. It
was designed to be controlled by

1194
01:18:51,390 --> 01:18:55,590
the people. But little by little
they started asking J she's the

1195
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:59,550
CEO. Yeah. And the team for
moderation tools and to kick

1196
01:18:59,550 --> 01:19:02,610
people off. And unfortunately,
they follow through with it.

1197
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,700
Everything we wanted around
decentralization, everything we

1198
01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:08,790
wanted, in terms of an open
source protocol suddenly became

1199
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:13,500
a company with VCs and a board.
That's not what I wanted. And

1200
01:19:13,500 --> 01:19:16,140
that's not what I intended to
help create. Around the same

1201
01:19:16,140 --> 01:19:19,290
time I found noster. We don't
know who the leader is. It's

1202
01:19:19,290 --> 01:19:23,280
like this anonymous Brazilian
guy. It has no board, no company

1203
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,460
behind it, no funding. It's a
truly open protocol. The

1204
01:19:26,460 --> 01:19:28,590
development environment is
moving fast. I gave a bunch of

1205
01:19:28,590 --> 01:19:32,670
and I gave him a bunch of money
to them. Okay, so that's, that's

1206
01:19:32,670 --> 01:19:39,330
the quote. And he seems to be
defining. I've got a few things

1207
01:19:39,330 --> 01:19:43,140
to say about this. But he seems
to be defining openness as a

1208
01:19:43,140 --> 01:19:51,360
protocol that is not backed by
any company. To him it if it's

1209
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:55,470
if it has a company and control
of it, it's not truly open.

1210
01:19:56,490 --> 01:19:59,970
Adam Curry: I find that to be
true. This is why I liked

1211
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:06,720
Bitcoin no CEO. Right? This is
why I like RSS no CEO. But

1212
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,540
Dave Jones: do you think that
that's is that always the case,

1213
01:20:09,540 --> 01:20:12,630
though? And I'm gonna bring this
back around to what we're

1214
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:13,140
talking about

1215
01:20:13,140 --> 01:20:15,600
Adam Curry: tell you why I think
it's always the case because

1216
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:20,280
it's never been the case.
Bitcoin Bitcoin was the first

1217
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:27,060
for me, even though I've come to
appreciate RSS equally when you

1218
01:20:27,060 --> 01:20:30,900
have something that is truly
just a format or a protocol,

1219
01:20:31,020 --> 01:20:35,790
either way. And I and to a
degree, I think activity Pub is

1220
01:20:35,790 --> 01:20:39,030
that as well. These are the
things that are being

1221
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:43,110
implemented and used by people
because they can, because they

1222
01:20:43,110 --> 01:20:47,730
don't need to pay a developer
fee or do any of this stuff.

1223
01:20:48,180 --> 01:20:51,870
Anybody can do it. That was That
was always the the idea behind

1224
01:20:51,870 --> 01:20:55,530
RSS and you people will come to
me, man now. So do you have your

1225
01:20:55,530 --> 01:21:01,140
own plane? We're talking about
God, you invented RSS. You

1226
01:21:01,140 --> 01:21:04,800
invented podcast, and then a
podcast to bro, if we had done

1227
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,220
that it would have gone nowhere.
No one would be using it. The

1228
01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:12,450
whole point is that it just is.
It just is.

1229
01:21:12,750 --> 01:21:14,190
Dave Jones: And now and when
you're talking and he started,

1230
01:21:14,220 --> 01:21:16,500
he started talking about
licensing fees, and these guys,

1231
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:23,220
NAD that's understand that. But
is like blue sky doesn't have

1232
01:21:23,220 --> 01:21:23,550
Hold on.

1233
01:21:23,730 --> 01:21:26,550
Adam Curry: I didn't talk about
a licensing fee. But you mean in

1234
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:27,840
regards to the music stuff?

1235
01:21:28,350 --> 01:21:31,770
Dave Jones: No, no, I'm talking,
you said, you know, royalty like

1236
01:21:31,770 --> 01:21:35,040
fees for implementation. And
like developer

1237
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:39,780
Adam Curry: like API access
developer, you have to toolkit

1238
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:41,250
and all this kind of stuff. But

1239
01:21:41,250 --> 01:21:44,370
Dave Jones: that's see that's in
that's where I'm, that's, that's

1240
01:21:44,370 --> 01:21:47,820
the interesting issue here is
blue sky is a published

1241
01:21:47,820 --> 01:21:52,320
protocol. You can implement it
yourself just like you can

1242
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:58,110
activity pub. It's a it's just
an it's an open specification.

1243
01:21:59,490 --> 01:22:05,070
And in that sense, it's no
different than noster. You know,

1244
01:22:05,100 --> 01:22:07,620
but he has, he's saying he has a
problem with it.

1245
01:22:07,650 --> 01:22:09,690
Adam Curry: Okay, well, can we
separate a couple of things

1246
01:22:09,690 --> 01:22:12,870
because I also see stuff in the
boardroom being discussed.

1247
01:22:14,130 --> 01:22:19,350
There's a difference between a
protocol and the implementation.

1248
01:22:19,770 --> 01:22:24,210
So when I say activity piled
right away, yeah, but there's

1249
01:22:24,210 --> 01:22:27,330
all kinds of lib tardes are
Mastodon Mastodon is not

1250
01:22:27,330 --> 01:22:32,910
activity, pub nostre. The Social
Network is not Nasir the

1251
01:22:32,910 --> 01:22:39,480
protocol to see the the the
mistake, the big mistake of

1252
01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:44,400
nostre was the social network.
Because only people in this

1253
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:49,560
boardroom and not everybody even
understand that there's more to

1254
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:55,980
that than the implementation. So
the implementation of RSS was

1255
01:22:55,980 --> 01:23:00,060
initially only blogs. I think if
you say RSS people still think

1256
01:23:00,060 --> 01:23:03,480
blogs, they don't think
podcasts, they certainly don't

1257
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:08,070
think music distribution, or
audio books, or courseware, or

1258
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:11,430
any of that stuff. If that's the
hardest thing we're doing right

1259
01:23:11,430 --> 01:23:15,810
now is we're we're moving people
away from thinking this is just

1260
01:23:15,810 --> 01:23:19,410
for blogs, we're just for
podcasting. And this can be for

1261
01:23:19,410 --> 01:23:22,590
all kinds of distribution.
That's the hardest thing we're

1262
01:23:22,590 --> 01:23:22,980
doing.

1263
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,560
Dave Jones: See, okay, so he
says to backup at the second he

1264
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:32,940
says, he says in another prices.
So what if we created a team

1265
01:23:32,940 --> 01:23:35,490
that was independent to us, he's
talking about when he was at

1266
01:23:35,490 --> 01:23:40,710
Twitter that built a protocol
that Twitter could use and then

1267
01:23:40,710 --> 01:23:44,130
build on top of, then we would
wouldn't have the same

1268
01:23:44,130 --> 01:23:47,040
liabilities because the protocol
would be an open standard, like

1269
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:51,150
HTTP or SMTP. Twitter would
become the interface and we can

1270
01:23:51,150 --> 01:23:54,540
build valuable business by
competing to be the best view on

1271
01:23:54,540 --> 01:23:57,180
top of this massive corpus of
conversation that's happening in

1272
01:23:57,180 --> 01:24:03,030
real time. And, you know, he
says, he says, I know it's early

1273
01:24:03,030 --> 01:24:05,940
and noster is weird and hard to
use. But if you truly believe in

1274
01:24:05,940 --> 01:24:08,910
censorship, resistance and free
speech, you have to use

1275
01:24:08,910 --> 01:24:11,040
technologies that actually
enable them to change arise,

1276
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,890
blah, blah, blah, because these,
those are technologies, no

1277
01:24:13,890 --> 01:24:17,220
company or government can
compromise. The corporations can

1278
01:24:17,220 --> 01:24:19,590
be compromised, and they have
been, I

1279
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:23,340
Adam Curry: think there's a
difference between Okay, let me

1280
01:24:23,340 --> 01:24:25,980
take mercy because I hear what
you're saying. I hear what he's

1281
01:24:25,980 --> 01:24:29,190
saying. And I think he's
incorrect in some things. I do

1282
01:24:29,190 --> 01:24:37,800
to Twitter started as an RSS
based system. Where and that's

1283
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,350
why that failed all the time,
because they tried to centralize

1284
01:24:40,350 --> 01:24:45,660
RSS, where if they came out of
Mike, the first term was

1285
01:24:45,660 --> 01:24:49,740
microblogging. So we all had
blogs. And it was kind of a

1286
01:24:49,740 --> 01:24:54,900
groovy system, because we had a
product called Google Reader,

1287
01:24:54,900 --> 01:24:58,260
but there are many others. And
when that never got to flourish

1288
01:24:58,260 --> 01:25:03,630
that business online Like
podcast apps that enable that

1289
01:25:03,660 --> 01:25:07,680
that created the product out of
the protocol. Dorsey is

1290
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:14,610
interspersing, the censorship
resistant nature of a protocol

1291
01:25:14,610 --> 01:25:18,480
that allows you to communicate
with social media, which is a

1292
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:23,340
shit product. Yes, that's the
problem. Social media is a

1293
01:25:23,340 --> 01:25:27,210
horrible product. It's a
horrible product. I can't put it

1294
01:25:27,210 --> 01:25:32,070
any other. Now. You take
activity pub in the context of a

1295
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:36,420
reasonably close system, like
podcasts index dot social, it's

1296
01:25:36,420 --> 01:25:41,400
an okay product. And I have an
account, just podcast index dot

1297
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,030
social, and I have ad server
level have blocked certain

1298
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:48,630
instances. And from time to time
I go through it and go nope,

1299
01:25:48,660 --> 01:25:52,260
nope, I go to the public
timeline. Nope. Because I

1300
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:56,670
protect our community. So it
actually functions as a

1301
01:25:56,670 --> 01:26:02,520
reasonable product for for the
mission that we have. But are we

1302
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:06,420
really doing social media there?
No. In fact, I've asked some

1303
01:26:06,420 --> 01:26:09,480
people I said, Hey, could you
not post that here? Because

1304
01:26:09,630 --> 01:26:13,020
that's just going to create a
whole conversation that has

1305
01:26:13,020 --> 01:26:15,810
nothing to do with what we're
doing here. It's

1306
01:26:15,810 --> 01:26:18,060
Dave Jones: more in podcasting
index dot social is more like

1307
01:26:18,090 --> 01:26:21,960
just a big version of GitHub
discussions. Yeah, yeah. Oh,

1308
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:24,480
Adam Curry: yeah. A little less
stringent, I think but yeah,

1309
01:26:24,510 --> 01:26:29,820
Dave Jones: it's very, it's just
so hyper specific to one to kind

1310
01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:33,960
of one topic that it keeps some
of the and and your moderation

1311
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,300
on the back end. Keep some of
that away.

1312
01:26:36,330 --> 01:26:41,040
Adam Curry: So what Dorsey's
mistake is, in my opinion, this

1313
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:47,370
he is equating free speech and
censorship resistant speech with

1314
01:26:47,370 --> 01:26:52,620
a social network. No, the hard
No, because it's not it's a crap

1315
01:26:52,620 --> 01:26:56,850
show, as people arguing, then,
you know, it's like comments,

1316
01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:01,860
comments, depending on how you
on how they're displayed, even

1317
01:27:02,070 --> 01:27:05,850
that determines the product of
something that can be censorship

1318
01:27:05,850 --> 01:27:10,680
resistant. So podcasting is
censorship resistant. And it's

1319
01:27:10,710 --> 01:27:14,970
but it's very different. And you
can use RSS for a social

1320
01:27:14,970 --> 01:27:18,120
network, the see what Twitter
did in the beginning, but that's

1321
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:22,410
a crap product. Podcasting is a
podcast apps are outstanding

1322
01:27:22,410 --> 01:27:26,430
product, people like them.
People use them. Wherever you

1323
01:27:26,430 --> 01:27:30,840
get your podcast, it's a great
distribution mechanism. So we

1324
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:35,340
have to, we have to make a
distinction between the protocol

1325
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,950
and the product. Whoo, there you
go.

1326
01:27:38,430 --> 01:27:41,910
Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, I think
I think and I think that's, I

1327
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:44,490
think that's where I'm
struggling with what he's saying

1328
01:27:44,490 --> 01:27:48,570
and where I disagree with him is
you can have, you can have open

1329
01:27:48,570 --> 01:27:53,490
protocols that are developed by
private companies. I mean,

1330
01:27:53,790 --> 01:28:01,740
that's just the protocol itself.
I mean, it's take the iTunes

1331
01:28:01,740 --> 01:28:05,700
namespace was open, we're all
allowed to use it. It's not like

1332
01:28:05,700 --> 01:28:09,450
the it's not like the USBC.
Right, but you can't get one

1333
01:28:09,450 --> 01:28:09,960
kangaroo.

1334
01:28:10,230 --> 01:28:14,190
Adam Curry: But it holds
everybody back. Because I like

1335
01:28:14,190 --> 01:28:19,470
the podcast namespace. Where
there's no, there's no, there's

1336
01:28:19,470 --> 01:28:23,850
no other incentive other than
just to keep the servers

1337
01:28:23,850 --> 01:28:29,640
running. Yeah, and no one. Well,
I guess, technically, it's all

1338
01:28:29,670 --> 01:28:32,310
it's only as good as the people
but when you have a corporation,

1339
01:28:32,310 --> 01:28:35,070
corporations have boards,
corporations have targets

1340
01:28:35,070 --> 01:28:37,890
corporations have to make money
corporations have a reason for

1341
01:28:37,890 --> 01:28:44,340
existence, podcast index, dot
LLC podcast index, LLC, that has

1342
01:28:44,370 --> 01:28:50,760
one mission to make itself
unnecessary, to destroy, destroy

1343
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:53,550
itself. That is that is our
ultimate mission. In the

1344
01:28:53,550 --> 01:28:56,970
meantime, keep everything
running, but have a backstop. So

1345
01:28:56,970 --> 01:29:00,060
if we all keel over, then the
servers keep running on AutoPay,

1346
01:29:00,060 --> 01:29:04,230
etc. But the mission is to make
ourselves obsolete. And I think

1347
01:29:04,230 --> 01:29:08,970
we stated that clearly. With all
these, all these censorship

1348
01:29:08,970 --> 01:29:13,530
resistant things, which protect
us mainly from corporate

1349
01:29:13,740 --> 01:29:15,300
corporate from the corporate
world.

1350
01:29:17,250 --> 01:29:20,040
Dave Jones: They said because,
okay, he says, He's talking

1351
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:23,580
about Blue Sky says it was the
anti Twitter. And he's talking

1352
01:29:23,580 --> 01:29:26,490
about how why he left blue
skies. So he deleted his

1353
01:29:26,490 --> 01:29:29,850
account. He left blue sky. He
says it was the anti Twitter

1354
01:29:29,850 --> 01:29:32,280
people were literally running
from Twitter to blue sky. And

1355
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:36,180
that's not a way to build
something successful, sir. So he

1356
01:29:36,180 --> 01:29:36,780
says,

1357
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:40,470
Adam Curry: but they weren't
running from they weren't

1358
01:29:40,470 --> 01:29:43,650
running away from Twitter to
blue sky, the protocol. They

1359
01:29:43,650 --> 01:29:46,530
were running to the product,
blue sky product. Yeah.

1360
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,890
Dave Jones: And so he talks
about surviving. And this is

1361
01:29:49,890 --> 01:29:51,930
where it this is what really,
this is where I'm bringing it

1362
01:29:51,930 --> 01:29:57,630
back around a little bit because
he says, he says, All that said,

1363
01:29:57,630 --> 01:30:02,070
I really respect J she's the
blue sky. As CEO, she was under

1364
01:30:02,070 --> 01:30:07,050
a lot of pressure to survive.
Yeah. And he's talking about,

1365
01:30:07,470 --> 01:30:10,110
you know, when they started
doing moderation and this kind

1366
01:30:10,110 --> 01:30:17,220
of thing. It it's like he says,
he says it's such a crazy thing.

1367
01:30:17,220 --> 01:30:19,200
It seems like the core
leadership team at Twitter

1368
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:23,130
around you was just told this is
the question the the guy asking

1369
01:30:23,460 --> 01:30:26,700
Dorsey the question. He says it
seems like the core leadership

1370
01:30:26,700 --> 01:30:30,120
team at Twitter around you was
just totally opposed to elements

1371
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:32,910
throughout the company from the
sales team to the board. It's

1372
01:30:32,910 --> 01:30:35,430
almost as if the company were
fundamentally in conflict with

1373
01:30:35,430 --> 01:30:41,580
itself. He says it was also
pretty reactive to what was

1374
01:30:41,580 --> 01:30:42,900
happening the world well,

1375
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:47,910
Adam Curry: because sent to be
censorship resistant, there has

1376
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:51,450
to be zero financial incentive.
And by definition, if you have a

1377
01:30:51,450 --> 01:30:54,540
company, you're going to have
financial incentive one way or

1378
01:30:54,540 --> 01:30:55,140
the other.

1379
01:30:56,100 --> 01:30:59,730
Dave Jones: And, and I want this
idea, he said that she was under

1380
01:30:59,730 --> 01:31:06,480
a lot of pressure to survive as
a company. I think you said it

1381
01:31:06,540 --> 01:31:11,400
fine, earlier. But I mean, just
to state it more clearly. Let's

1382
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:15,390
set a goal to never try to
survive as a company.

1383
01:31:15,810 --> 01:31:19,170
Adam Curry: No, we actually our
goal is to destroy ourselves

1384
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:22,530
that yeah, that's even better.
That's the best goal ever.

1385
01:31:23,310 --> 01:31:26,730
Dave Jones: If podcast index
dies, they just dies. I was

1386
01:31:26,730 --> 01:31:29,670
Adam Curry: talking to someone
today. And you know, who want to

1387
01:31:29,670 --> 01:31:35,040
use the podcasts index as a back
end? And which, you know, a lot

1388
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:39,780
of a lot of people in this
boardroom do. And I think

1389
01:31:39,780 --> 01:31:42,510
because there's a relationship,
and there's several years of

1390
01:31:42,510 --> 01:31:46,830
history, now, people know what,
you know, know, us know, how we

1391
01:31:46,830 --> 01:31:50,610
operate, know what we do and
what we don't do. And they trust

1392
01:31:50,610 --> 01:31:54,570
us, there's a trust, there's a
huge trust factor there. And I

1393
01:31:54,570 --> 01:31:56,910
don't think we've ever violated
that trust. And I don't know,

1394
01:31:56,910 --> 01:32:01,200
there's just that we're just,
we're good guys, now. But

1395
01:32:01,230 --> 01:32:04,140
someone from the outside says,
hey, you know, so what happens?

1396
01:32:04,620 --> 01:32:08,220
If podcasts index goes away,
there goes my business, because

1397
01:32:08,220 --> 01:32:13,770
I'm trusting that to be the back
end. And I always say, Well, let

1398
01:32:13,770 --> 01:32:19,320
me tell you, first of all, we
have $28,000 in cash in the

1399
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:24,870
bank, and that money is on auto
pay than that. And you know, it

1400
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:27,570
costs real money to keep
everything running every single

1401
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:30,960
day, every single month. And
we're expanding, and we'll need

1402
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:34,590
more over time. But in general,
we think three to five years,

1403
01:32:34,590 --> 01:32:38,460
this, if we got no, if the money
stopped today, we could have

1404
01:32:38,490 --> 01:32:41,310
three to five years, it would
continue, there'd be no extra

1405
01:32:41,310 --> 01:32:44,430
development, et cetera. But that
would be it. Dave and Adam,

1406
01:32:44,970 --> 01:32:50,520
don't take any of that money for
personal use. But I said within

1407
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,030
that three to five years, we
hope that there's just an index

1408
01:32:54,060 --> 01:32:58,590
space is just out there, then
and you don't have to rely on

1409
01:32:58,590 --> 01:33:02,670
us, it will be just like, Tor,
you know, or hash space, or

1410
01:33:02,670 --> 01:33:07,290
whatever it is, it will be, it
will just be the way to get in,

1411
01:33:07,290 --> 01:33:10,560
there will be will be the way to
get it out will be and this is

1412
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:14,700
what things like pod ping and
activity pub and we're figuring

1413
01:33:14,700 --> 01:33:18,210
all this out and things will
know it's our mission, it's our

1414
01:33:18,210 --> 01:33:20,580
ultimate mission to make
ourselves obsolete. So

1415
01:33:20,580 --> 01:33:25,770
podcasting will just be it won't
be a place where accompany it

1416
01:33:25,770 --> 01:33:29,370
will be podcasting. It's just
there, tap in

1417
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:34,380
Dave Jones: it, to podcasts and
to 1.2 point oh will survive

1418
01:33:34,380 --> 01:33:37,770
because it doesn't need any
money. Right? The indexes,

1419
01:33:38,310 --> 01:33:43,050
podcasts index does need money.
And if and if the market

1420
01:33:43,050 --> 01:33:44,250
determines it should die, then

1421
01:33:44,250 --> 01:33:46,890
Adam Curry: it'll die. That's
fine. It's not gonna, it's not

1422
01:33:46,890 --> 01:33:47,790
gonna. And

1423
01:33:47,790 --> 01:33:50,190
Dave Jones: here's why. And
here's what happens that the day

1424
01:33:50,190 --> 01:33:56,340
that the day that that does
happen, I cut everything down to

1425
01:33:56,340 --> 01:34:01,830
the bone. We can run, we can run
just we can run core services

1426
01:34:01,830 --> 01:34:07,830
for about $300 a month. And, you
know, with with, with

1427
01:34:07,830 --> 01:34:10,800
Adam Curry: restricted
restrictions on API access, I'm

1428
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:13,980
Dave Jones: sure right, yeah.
And that'll and that'll take

1429
01:34:13,980 --> 01:34:15,270
along for a long time. Maybe

1430
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:17,550
Adam Curry: we just put out a
database every week. I don't

1431
01:34:17,550 --> 01:34:20,160
know. It could be any number of
things. We could

1432
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:22,710
Dave Jones: do that for I could
do that paying for it myself out

1433
01:34:22,710 --> 01:34:27,180
of my own wallet. So the unknown
I'm not worried about that the

1434
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:32,670
it's just we're you know trying
to survive as a company and like

1435
01:34:33,270 --> 01:34:36,000
Keep it keep yourself from
dying. I mean, that's where all

1436
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:41,010
the bad stuff starts. You know,
that's that's yeah, that's where

1437
01:34:41,310 --> 01:34:45,990
things start to always go wrong.
Yes,

1438
01:34:46,020 --> 01:34:49,680
Adam Curry: that's exactly
right. It's always goes wrong.

1439
01:34:50,070 --> 01:34:50,370
Yeah,

1440
01:34:50,370 --> 01:34:52,560
Dave Jones: so I'm just like,
you know, the world the world

1441
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:56,730
moves on things go away. So if
we are you know, if for some

1442
01:34:56,730 --> 01:35:00,660
reason, the the economy just
completely The tanked and

1443
01:35:00,660 --> 01:35:03,810
everybody's in the funding for
the index data. This one we'll

1444
01:35:03,810 --> 01:35:08,700
move on. But, you know, he, he
said something else about brand

1445
01:35:08,700 --> 01:35:13,980
advertising. He said, But this
is this. I do agree with him. He

1446
01:35:13,980 --> 01:35:18,330
says, I think the core critical
sin was choosing the advertising

1447
01:35:18,330 --> 01:35:21,330
model to begin with brand
advertising is not like direct

1448
01:35:21,330 --> 01:35:24,960
advertisements, right, which is
more programmatic. It requires

1449
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:28,470
something like a Disney to
essentially do you a favor,

1450
01:35:28,860 --> 01:35:32,070
because the only because the
only players that matter to them

1451
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:35,820
are Google and Facebook,
Snapchat, Twitter, everything

1452
01:35:35,820 --> 01:35:39,120
else doesn't matter. And these
are ads, they're essentially

1453
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,630
throw away money for them. But
we made that choice in order to

1454
01:35:42,630 --> 01:35:44,580
go public. Yeah,

1455
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:47,700
Adam Curry: that's right. These
are and that was to satisfy the

1456
01:35:48,030 --> 01:35:51,450
initial investors and you go all
the way back up the chain.

1457
01:35:52,110 --> 01:35:55,350
Dave Jones: He said, we needed a
model, Facebook's model was

1458
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:58,890
really good. So we came up with
an ad program and ran with it.

1459
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,610
And I came back to the company a
year after the IPO, and we were

1460
01:36:02,610 --> 01:36:06,270
seeing a decline in growth. And
that manifested in the decline

1461
01:36:06,270 --> 01:36:09,720
in ad revenue. So our first
focus was to rework the product.

1462
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,690
So we were growing again. And
then second was to get off this

1463
01:36:12,690 --> 01:36:16,230
dependency on advertisement. And
when you're entirely dependent

1464
01:36:16,230 --> 01:36:19,470
on that, if a brand like Procter
and Gamble, or Unilever doesn't

1465
01:36:19,470 --> 01:36:21,690
like what's happening on your
platform, you're totally

1466
01:36:21,690 --> 01:36:24,330
threatened to pull the budget
with accounts, which accounts

1467
01:36:24,330 --> 01:36:27,120
for like 20% of your revenue,
you have no choice. Yeah,

1468
01:36:27,210 --> 01:36:29,640
Adam Curry: in that interview,
he also says that it was easy

1469
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:32,130
for Elon to fire half the
company, because half the

1470
01:36:32,130 --> 01:36:38,220
company was in sales. You know,
and all and trust me when I say

1471
01:36:38,220 --> 01:36:41,670
that the largest military
contractor in the world, Elon

1472
01:36:41,670 --> 01:36:45,510
Musk, because that's what he is
looking at his real businesses.

1473
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:49,860
His mission is not to give you
freedom of speech is just the

1474
01:36:49,860 --> 01:36:52,500
cost of doing business for him.
By the way, he's giving you

1475
01:36:52,500 --> 01:36:55,410
freedom of speech, not freedom
of reach. That's also in that

1476
01:36:55,410 --> 01:37:00,450
article, which is true. And I
see that all the time. Hey, no,

1477
01:37:00,480 --> 01:37:03,780
no, I get no numbers on this
post. You know, okay, fine. I

1478
01:37:03,780 --> 01:37:09,090
wonder why. All he's doing is
making sure there's enough

1479
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:14,160
excitement and action around x
to keep everybody engaged as he

1480
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:21,150
rolls out. His Kwazii podcasting
infrastructure is make money on

1481
01:37:21,150 --> 01:37:24,780
your writing infrastructure. So
he's trying to be substack. He's

1482
01:37:24,780 --> 01:37:28,830
trying to be trying to be
Patreon, but not really not

1483
01:37:28,830 --> 01:37:31,890
really with subscriptions. But
he'll roll that out. And it all

1484
01:37:31,890 --> 01:37:35,880
comes down to he wants to be
your bank. He's got 38 Money

1485
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:39,420
transmitter licenses, he'll have
them all. And if there's not

1486
01:37:39,420 --> 01:37:43,590
enough action around his his
x.com, he'll post something

1487
01:37:43,590 --> 01:37:47,700
outrageous to start up again. He
just needs to keep everybody

1488
01:37:47,700 --> 01:37:51,150
engaged and on Twitter all the
time, until he has everything

1489
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:55,410
rolled out so he can be your
bank. That's it. That's it. He

1490
01:37:55,410 --> 01:37:57,060
wants to be your bank.

1491
01:37:59,340 --> 01:38:03,240
Dave Jones: It here's the quote
you were talking about. He says

1492
01:38:03,300 --> 01:38:06,210
it was a brand advertising
business and a brand advertising

1493
01:38:06,210 --> 01:38:10,260
business needs a huge sales
staff. Over 50 to 60% of Twitter

1494
01:38:10,260 --> 01:38:13,200
employees were in sales. Yeah,

1495
01:38:13,230 --> 01:38:17,160
Adam Curry: there you go. There
you go. But, but But make no

1496
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:20,100
mistake, this is not about Ilan
trying to give you freedom of

1497
01:38:20,100 --> 01:38:24,510
speech. No, no, no, no. By the
way, can I just do a quick

1498
01:38:24,510 --> 01:38:27,420
namespace thing here? Oh, yeah,
sure. Well, I'm not going to

1499
01:38:27,420 --> 01:38:32,880
play the jingle. Leslie Leslie
has been emailing me. We got a

1500
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:37,890
long distance dedication from
Lesley Lesley says that she is

1501
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:44,040
working on audio books. And she
has a request for the season

1502
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:48,210
tag. Which I thought was quite
reasonable. Because I'm like,

1503
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:50,910
Oh, by the way we updated
season, we got season taxes.

1504
01:38:50,910 --> 01:38:53,460
Yeah, but it's not enough. I
will quote from her

1505
01:38:53,490 --> 01:38:57,240
correspondence with me. I know
that most hosting companies

1506
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:01,320
support season numbers. But what
would also be helpful is if we

1507
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:06,570
could get a season level art and
titles. Oh, she says I think

1508
01:39:06,570 --> 01:39:09,390
that would be a great help for
audio books. And maybe even for

1509
01:39:09,390 --> 01:39:13,050
musicians, as they could put
multiple works out as seasons

1510
01:39:13,050 --> 01:39:16,530
within a single feed and
distinguish between them, rather

1511
01:39:16,530 --> 01:39:18,720
than having separate feeds for
each.

1512
01:39:19,830 --> 01:39:21,000
Dave Jones: I think that's a
neat idea.

1513
01:39:21,030 --> 01:39:22,950
Adam Curry: I think it's an
interesting way to look at it.

1514
01:39:22,950 --> 01:39:25,710
And we were just because she
says you know, I can't afford to

1515
01:39:25,710 --> 01:39:31,260
have a new RSS feed for every
single audiobook. So you gotta

1516
01:39:31,260 --> 01:39:35,880
Dave Jones: get people to
subscribe to. Yeah. Because that

1517
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:38,640
should just be an attribute on
the optional attributes,

1518
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:42,750
Adam Curry: optional attributes.
So optional image and title I

1519
01:39:42,750 --> 01:39:46,080
think is what she's specifically
asking for. And I said we

1520
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:50,280
already have titles and titles
we have but she wants art. Do we

1521
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:52,470
have because I looked at it. Are
you sure we have title?

1522
01:39:53,580 --> 01:39:56,160
Dave Jones: We have name you can
name a season or you can name a

1523
01:39:56,160 --> 01:40:03,600
season. Like as names. Let me go
to the GitHub brief thoughts on

1524
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:07,650
point o season man

1525
01:40:07,650 --> 01:40:11,070
Adam Curry: that James Kerguelen
his podcast namespace.org Sure

1526
01:40:11,070 --> 01:40:16,830
pops up at the top of the OGS
now I liked that let me see

1527
01:40:16,830 --> 01:40:18,510
because I have season

1528
01:40:18,690 --> 01:40:20,280
Dave Jones: it's the name
attribute.

1529
01:40:20,550 --> 01:40:21,600
Adam Curry: Okay let me see

1530
01:40:23,820 --> 01:40:27,180
Dave Jones: in the examples like
podcast season Yeah,

1531
01:40:27,210 --> 01:40:31,470
Adam Curry: yeah yeah name
equals yes name. So episode art

1532
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:35,610
Dave Jones: Yes. So we just need
an image URL attribute and

1533
01:40:35,670 --> 01:40:38,100
Adam Curry: hosting companies
apparently are still only

1534
01:40:38,100 --> 01:40:44,220
offering the old iTunes
namespace I guess the number the

1535
01:40:44,220 --> 01:40:47,460
season yeah for the season
number but the people want names

1536
01:40:47,460 --> 01:40:49,770
and name title and image

1537
01:40:50,250 --> 01:40:52,020
Dave Jones: so I think we
shouldn't want it to get against

1538
01:40:52,020 --> 01:40:53,760
people what they will go on it
there's

1539
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:57,240
Adam Curry: a customer to
customer customer waiting for

1540
01:40:57,240 --> 01:41:02,760
you right there. Podcasting 2.0
podcast we deliver customers to

1541
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,540
you. You're gonna play a song.
Oh yeah, let's do that right

1542
01:41:06,540 --> 01:41:06,810
now.

1543
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:09,090
Dave Jones: Thank you for
reminding write this up as a as

1544
01:41:09,090 --> 01:41:11,310
an issue on GitHub while you're
playing while I'm playing the

1545
01:41:11,310 --> 01:41:11,640
song.

1546
01:41:11,700 --> 01:41:15,360
Adam Curry: Okay, good. I think
I got this one from either the

1547
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:18,480
Phantom music power hour I got
it from the side street music

1548
01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:22,680
podcast another banger for a
Friday everybody Tony Salamone

1549
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:25,140
with red light of podcasting
live

1550
01:41:25,140 --> 01:41:32,400
Unknown: on offense to the sky
affair face first into the

1551
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:33,180
concrete.

1552
01:42:20,190 --> 01:42:24,690
Logging into my brain

1553
01:42:33,510 --> 01:42:37,920
changed and shaped?

1554
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,890
Supernatural it's

1555
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:56,250
the days Baby

1556
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:45,960
Adam Curry: Tony Salamone red
lights podcasting. 2.0 if you

1557
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:49,620
boost if you didn't boost go
back, rewind boost. Tell him you

1558
01:44:49,620 --> 01:44:53,580
heard it on podcasting. 2.0
That's a good one. That's a

1559
01:44:53,580 --> 01:44:55,950
great song. I love that track.

1560
01:44:57,030 --> 01:44:59,520
Dave Jones: Add an image href
attribute to the season tag for

1561
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:00,120
SC Have

1562
01:45:01,770 --> 01:45:03,360
Adam Curry: you got it in?
Alright, you nailed it, I

1563
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:05,700
Dave Jones: get it in, I got it.
That's

1564
01:45:05,700 --> 01:45:07,950
Adam Curry: how we write one
song. And we've updated the

1565
01:45:07,950 --> 01:45:12,360
namespace Beautiful. Beautiful,
beautiful, beautiful. I love it.

1566
01:45:13,440 --> 01:45:17,040
Cool. Good. Anything else for
the board meeting here?

1567
01:45:18,660 --> 01:45:21,300
Dave Jones: I got some stuff
that we can wait. We always push

1568
01:45:21,300 --> 01:45:23,310
Adam Curry: every now next week,
there's no board meeting because

1569
01:45:23,310 --> 01:45:26,970
I'm on the road. I can't do it
next week. So that's true that I

1570
01:45:27,300 --> 01:45:29,910
need to do is I'd rather go long
today. And then

1571
01:45:31,320 --> 01:45:34,020
Dave Jones: that's alright, I've
got I didn't get much

1572
01:45:34,020 --> 01:45:37,050
accomplished this week, I'd
planned on getting the resolver

1573
01:45:38,910 --> 01:45:42,810
built for the I didn't get much
of a chance to code this week.

1574
01:45:42,810 --> 01:45:49,260
But I want to get the that we
need a resolver for translating

1575
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:57,300
a key send addresses? Oh, you
know, so that you can look up

1576
01:45:57,300 --> 01:46:01,680
like, David Get out b.com and
convert it back to a to a note

1577
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:08,520
Id we need that. But I want to
make it where apps like cast

1578
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:13,020
ematic can just send one request
for a whole bunch of addresses,

1579
01:46:13,020 --> 01:46:18,000
you know, and like we do the
resolution for it. You could you

1580
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,990
could just do send off like 10
of these addresses, we would

1581
01:46:21,990 --> 01:46:27,900
resolve them back in one call.
Yeah. And do the caching and all

1582
01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:31,770
that nice. Nice. I want to make
that easy for everybody for

1583
01:46:31,770 --> 01:46:36,630
lists. Yeah, apps. Yeah. But
before we put cuz I want to get

1584
01:46:36,630 --> 01:46:39,570
that key send address thing into
the value recipient tag on June

1585
01:46:39,570 --> 01:46:44,460
1. But I don't. But I don't want
to do it without giving the

1586
01:46:44,460 --> 01:46:50,670
serverless apps a fallback? Yes,
as we always do. So so that's

1587
01:46:50,700 --> 01:46:53,430
the next thing on my list. And
we'll talk about that. Okay,

1588
01:46:53,490 --> 01:46:55,350
I'll get it done while while
you're

1589
01:46:55,350 --> 01:46:57,540
Adam Curry: gone two weeks.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry,

1590
01:46:57,540 --> 01:46:59,850
everybody. And Alex is working

1591
01:46:59,850 --> 01:47:06,360
Dave Jones: on a top secret
project for us. So. Yeah. Put

1592
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:07,050
for pod payments.

1593
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:12,150
Adam Curry: Do you put them
under NDA? Indie. So we can't

1594
01:47:12,150 --> 01:47:15,270
talk about it. So we can't talk
about it. And yeah, it'd be fun,

1595
01:47:15,270 --> 01:47:21,240
Dave Jones: but sign the
document. Here, Alex on this. I

1596
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:21,570
know what

1597
01:47:23,130 --> 01:47:28,740
Adam Curry: you'd say sign this.
Yes. I was just as I was playing

1598
01:47:28,740 --> 01:47:31,350
that song. I'm just I'm just
like jamming out to the song. I

1599
01:47:31,350 --> 01:47:35,190
remember because the last
episode, when you lost power at

1600
01:47:35,190 --> 01:47:39,060
the office, and I played tracks
for two or three hours. That was

1601
01:47:39,060 --> 01:47:42,480
more fun. I had just because
we've been talking about I've

1602
01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:44,940
been reminiscing My mind has
been going back and forth in

1603
01:47:44,940 --> 01:47:51,960
history. That was more fun. For
me as a music disc jockey than

1604
01:47:51,990 --> 01:47:55,650
any shift I ever did on Z 100
The biggest radio station in New

1605
01:47:55,650 --> 01:47:59,580
York at the time. In fact, I
wasn't. Why because I was almost

1606
01:47:59,580 --> 01:48:03,420
it was like it was lonely. You
know, you're just talking into

1607
01:48:03,420 --> 01:48:06,870
Mica. Hey, I live in New York.
But there's nothing coming back.

1608
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:11,040
There was no there was no chat
room. There was no booster grams

1609
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,770
there was you know, we had
requests and so on the back

1610
01:48:13,770 --> 01:48:17,520
would take a request and wasn't
really a request anyway. We just

1611
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,880
pretend to like yeah, okay,
this, this is what's next in the

1612
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:22,350
computer. So we're playing this.

1613
01:48:23,100 --> 01:48:25,260
Dave Jones: You don't even have
Buzzsprout fan mail.

1614
01:48:26,490 --> 01:48:29,430
Adam Curry: Let's, let's thank a
few people, shall we? Let's use

1615
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:33,270
our own fan mail here. We have
lots of live booths that came in

1616
01:48:33,270 --> 01:48:36,870
3438 from Billy Bones. says
thank you for the boardroom

1617
01:48:36,870 --> 01:48:40,620
meetings. It makes me excited
for podcasting. 2.0 Well, you're

1618
01:48:40,620 --> 01:48:42,660
welcome. And you're a part of
it. Billy Bones. We're all part

1619
01:48:42,660 --> 01:48:48,780
of the Billy Graham anonymous
3333 We got Mike Dell 1701

1620
01:48:48,780 --> 01:48:52,290
hamvention booths from Dayton
Ohio. 70 threes, keto eight Lima

1621
01:48:52,290 --> 01:48:58,260
Mike Juliet at the hamvention
forgot all about that. Yes, 73

1622
01:48:58,260 --> 01:49:00,990
is kilo five Alpha Charlie
Charlie beaconing every 15

1623
01:49:00,990 --> 01:49:07,530
minutes on bar ac 20 meters. We
got the heartburn we got the 777

1624
01:49:07,530 --> 01:49:11,700
from Sam Sethi. True fans has
the remote item license working

1625
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:15,960
for example. She does for
example, we have it working for

1626
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:18,840
all phantom power music artists.
We have plans to use it with

1627
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:21,750
clips next so you grant a
license for other podcasts to

1628
01:49:21,750 --> 01:49:25,680
use your audio in another
podcast and get paid like music.

1629
01:49:25,890 --> 01:49:31,200
Beautiful Sam. Thank you let's
let's can we can you post

1630
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:34,800
somewhere short. Just to
document how that how that

1631
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:39,000
showed up like hub that pops up
so other apps can see it. That

1632
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:41,880
would be great. This is perfect.
See, I told you I would carry

1633
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:46,080
this it's so easy. The work is
done for me. Done. Shred word

1634
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:50,730
part of the dorsal verse 1000
SATs genuine variety and organic

1635
01:49:50,730 --> 01:49:53,730
goodness is King not perfection
and sounding like everybody

1636
01:49:53,730 --> 01:49:57,240
else. We call it here in the
Dorko verse Nashville called

1637
01:49:57,330 --> 01:49:59,970
when you stick to the template
Amen brother

1638
01:50:00,480 --> 01:50:02,790
Dave Jones: That's right is that
the is like the NAM when you're

1639
01:50:02,790 --> 01:50:05,400
Nashville Nashville sound when

1640
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:08,790
Adam Curry: you're perfect. Last
night, this is another another

1641
01:50:09,930 --> 01:50:12,900
writing on the wall. So we were
going to tune in to our favorite

1642
01:50:12,900 --> 01:50:15,600
show. Cheers. We're on season
nine, we're almost done.

1643
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:16,920
Dave Jones: Oh, you're close.

1644
01:50:18,449 --> 01:50:21,509
Adam Curry: We've been binging.
And so I pop open, because you

1645
01:50:21,509 --> 01:50:25,439
know, you can get it on
Paramount plus through Amazon,

1646
01:50:25,739 --> 01:50:31,079
whatever. And right at the top,
oh, there's the American Country

1647
01:50:31,079 --> 01:50:35,309
Music Awards. Live on Amazon. So
we pop it, you know, it's like,

1648
01:50:35,309 --> 01:50:39,599
okay. And it was just
uncomfortable to watch. It was

1649
01:50:39,599 --> 01:50:44,879
so because it's so like,
structured and you know, they

1650
01:50:44,879 --> 01:50:48,449
have ads, of course. And so it's
all tight on a timeline. It's

1651
01:50:48,449 --> 01:50:52,379
unnatural. You know, I love Reba
McIntyre. But, you know, she's

1652
01:50:52,409 --> 01:50:56,279
hosting again. And you know, and
it's just, it's they're trying

1653
01:50:56,279 --> 01:50:59,639
to make this tight, tight show.
And it's this, this, you know,

1654
01:51:00,059 --> 01:51:04,859
robotic, doesn't feel like
podcasting where it's crazy to

1655
01:51:04,859 --> 01:51:05,519
control.

1656
01:51:06,030 --> 01:51:09,330
Dave Jones: You know, I hear
songs. Sometimes I'll ever and

1657
01:51:09,390 --> 01:51:14,580
honestly Taylor Swift's catalog
is like this. You just know that

1658
01:51:14,580 --> 01:51:22,410
in five years minimum AI will be
able to recreate songs this

1659
01:51:22,440 --> 01:51:26,460
dinner just exactly like that.
They sound no different. They're

1660
01:51:26,460 --> 01:51:28,200
just like, like vacuous.
Couldn't

1661
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:30,210
Adam Curry: do it already. You
can do it already. And there's

1662
01:51:30,210 --> 01:51:33,480
no love. There's no soul. It's
soulless. Yeah,

1663
01:51:33,480 --> 01:51:38,100
Dave Jones: there's, do you know
what's, you know? What is it?

1664
01:51:38,100 --> 01:51:40,020
Well, so we've been rewatching X
Files.

1665
01:51:40,290 --> 01:51:43,470
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. You're
done with the with the musicals.

1666
01:51:43,500 --> 01:51:44,850
You're onto X Files now.

1667
01:51:45,330 --> 01:51:48,540
Dave Jones: Now we're
intermixing we're mixing it up.

1668
01:51:48,540 --> 01:51:52,830
Now. We've heard we've been
watching musicals too. But do

1669
01:51:52,830 --> 01:51:56,100
you know what's great about
those old shows from 80s 90s?

1670
01:51:56,640 --> 01:51:58,800
You don't see any computers
anywhere?

1671
01:52:00,060 --> 01:52:00,930
Adam Curry: It's all analog.

1672
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:04,290
Dave Jones: That's right people
people's desks have like pens

1673
01:52:04,290 --> 01:52:05,550
and paper and a phone

1674
01:52:05,790 --> 01:52:09,900
Adam Curry: Sam Sam Malone in
cheers has a little black book

1675
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:13,890
with all those babes all those
babes in it? Yes.

1676
01:52:13,890 --> 01:52:15,480
Dave Jones: All the babes so
true.

1677
01:52:15,720 --> 01:52:20,880
Adam Curry: It's awesome.
Blueberry 77 777 member berry

1678
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:26,100
booths for Dave Oh, then we had
the phantom power media 10,000

1679
01:52:26,100 --> 01:52:29,910
SATs we read that one Dave tell
your daughter to apply for bands

1680
01:52:29,910 --> 01:52:33,090
at Bitcoin stage in July. Good
idea. Eric peepee was sent the

1681
01:52:33,090 --> 01:52:39,240
boob boost which did come
through 808 CELTA Crayon 777.

1682
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:42,090
Howdy boardroom Dave don't get
me started on docking station

1683
01:52:42,090 --> 01:52:45,720
firmware. Weekly we are updating
those because they are well past

1684
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:48,750
the 12 month mark. The
Thunderbolt ones are the worst

1685
01:52:48,750 --> 01:52:52,740
culprit so far job security,
right go podcast and contests.

1686
01:52:53,580 --> 01:53:01,470
We love job security as a chat F
with his 777 boosts and I hit

1687
01:53:01,470 --> 01:53:03,600
the delimiter There we go. Oh,

1688
01:53:03,750 --> 01:53:06,870
Dave Jones: we got a new
subscriber $10 a month from

1689
01:53:06,870 --> 01:53:08,460
Timothy voice well then

1690
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:13,890
Adam Curry: haven't used that
one in a while. You've been deep

1691
01:53:13,890 --> 01:53:14,130
fried

1692
01:53:14,130 --> 01:53:15,330
Dave Jones: midribs kid right?

1693
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:16,140
Adam Curry: Yes it is.

1694
01:53:16,830 --> 01:53:22,050
Dave Jones: That's a little drip
this dribbling. We got a Z

1695
01:53:22,050 --> 01:53:27,390
that's our only one off Pay Pal
this week but we guess boosts

1696
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:34,170
get Steve Wilkinson aka CG
works. striper boost 7777

1697
01:53:34,170 --> 01:53:38,190
through cast ematic skillet
boost. Maybe we can get a John

1698
01:53:38,190 --> 01:53:39,690
Cooper screen skillet

1699
01:53:39,690 --> 01:53:47,580
Adam Curry: boost. That's our
semi striper boost. Yes. Okay.

1700
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:52,920
Dave Jones: We got Andrew
Gromit. No 2222 Road ducks hello

1701
01:53:52,920 --> 01:53:56,190
and wherever app nice this top
secret app I've

1702
01:53:56,940 --> 01:53:59,280
Adam Curry: ever tried that
thing out. It's amazing. It's

1703
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:02,250
basically wherever Yes,
basically a framework of every

1704
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:06,240
everything that we have in
podcasting. 2.0 just smashed

1705
01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:07,260
into one web app.

1706
01:54:08,010 --> 01:54:10,440
Dave Jones: We're gonna get him
on the show, do you? Yes, of

1707
01:54:10,440 --> 01:54:10,890
course.

1708
01:54:10,890 --> 01:54:14,970
Adam Curry: Of course. Of
course. Andrew, you're up, bro.

1709
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:17,760
You're up. You're on. You're
gonna be on the show. I can't

1710
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:20,070
wait to catch up with him. I
can't wait. We got some we got

1711
01:54:20,070 --> 01:54:23,760
stories a bit. You hear stories
that I have forgotten? No. In

1712
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:26,280
fact, I guarantee you he has
stories that I've forgotten.

1713
01:54:26,370 --> 01:54:29,340
That'll be a good one. Let's get
him on.

1714
01:54:30,060 --> 01:54:34,800
Dave Jones: Okay, we got Andrew
Andrews on deck. He says he says

1715
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:38,040
this rocks heard on Podcast,
episode 179.

1716
01:54:38,070 --> 01:54:40,860
Adam Curry: Yes. And Andrew
Thank you. He's got everything

1717
01:54:40,860 --> 01:54:45,240
set. You know, the wherever app
booths come through, and I can

1718
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:50,130
see what song it was for and I
think he I don't know that that

1719
01:54:50,130 --> 01:54:52,950
yeah, has the reply function
working which is great. I love

1720
01:54:52,950 --> 01:54:56,970
that too. I love replying to
boost i Every morning I come and

1721
01:54:56,970 --> 01:54:59,580
say oh, can I reply to this? Oh,
can I reply and because it's

1722
01:54:59,580 --> 01:55:02,880
split Usually I'm sending people
back more than I received.

1723
01:55:05,759 --> 01:55:06,659
Dave Jones: You're losing money.

1724
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:08,640
Adam Curry: I'm losing money on
it, but I love it.

1725
01:55:10,110 --> 01:55:14,850
Dave Jones: To 237 That is the
number of unread emails I have

1726
01:55:14,850 --> 01:55:16,770
in my podcast index mailbox. All

1727
01:55:16,770 --> 01:55:19,410
Adam Curry: right, I'm plugging
along, brother. I'm taking care

1728
01:55:19,410 --> 01:55:21,270
of most of them when I can. Oh,
yeah.

1729
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:28,320
Dave Jones: I'll say Jacob J, K,
ob 1234. Booths through pod

1730
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:31,230
verse, he says, great tunes.
Thank you, Jake. By

1731
01:55:31,230 --> 01:55:35,730
Adam Curry: the way, the the
update ability of the dashboard.

1732
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:40,830
Now the control dashboard is
great, because now I can change

1733
01:55:40,830 --> 01:55:42,990
someone's Feed URL

1734
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:45,390
Dave Jones: that's working for
you. Yes,

1735
01:55:45,390 --> 01:55:48,300
Adam Curry: yes. And now, if the
if the feed is already in there

1736
01:55:48,300 --> 01:55:51,360
double, you have to resolve that
first. I've even done a couple

1737
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:56,520
of successful merges, which did
my head and well did my head and

1738
01:55:56,520 --> 01:56:00,300
because I'm like, What's merging
into what you know, like, I'm

1739
01:56:00,300 --> 01:56:03,150
merging the wrong way. Oh,
restore, reset. Okay. merge them

1740
01:56:03,150 --> 01:56:10,110
back the other way. All right.
There we go. Undo Ctrl Z. is

1741
01:56:10,110 --> 01:56:14,070
great. I'm able to I'm actually
able to do a lot for people. So

1742
01:56:14,070 --> 01:56:17,640
I feel quite powerful with the
capabilities I have.

1743
01:56:18,390 --> 01:56:20,850
Dave Jones: It will I'll
continue to refine that. It's

1744
01:56:20,850 --> 01:56:21,570
still rough.

1745
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:26,670
Adam Curry: Give me Give me root
access. Give me RM dash RF.

1746
01:56:26,700 --> 01:56:32,160
Yeah, I don't I've actually done
that. No, yes. Back what own

1747
01:56:32,160 --> 01:56:35,760
what folder? Okay, back in the
onramp days now. Something

1748
01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:36,810
similar. Here's what I did.

1749
01:56:37,410 --> 01:56:40,290
Dave Jones: So wait, they get
tilde dummy. Somebody in onramp

1750
01:56:40,290 --> 01:56:42,090
gave you root access to
anything?

1751
01:56:42,120 --> 01:56:45,660
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. No, I had
root access to everything. So we

1752
01:56:45,660 --> 01:56:51,840
had a son with a Unison five
maybe. Spark station. Spark

1753
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:55,650
station. Yeah. And Neuromancer
was the machines name, I

1754
01:56:55,650 --> 01:57:00,120
remember it well. And so there
was a ragtag, we had like one

1755
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:03,930
client, and we were just trying
to do stuff. And, and, you know,

1756
01:57:03,930 --> 01:57:07,290
I was trying to figure something
out. And so I go in, and I'm on

1757
01:57:07,290 --> 01:57:10,500
the machine, right? So I have
root access on the machine, that

1758
01:57:10,500 --> 01:57:14,700
I'm seeing all these errors
being thrown. And I'm like,

1759
01:57:14,700 --> 01:57:17,880
well, there's something wrong
here with this sh. So why don't

1760
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:29,220
just RMS H for a second I
removed the shell. Nice. was

1761
01:57:29,220 --> 01:57:35,160
interesting how we brought that
back to life. That was my that

1762
01:57:35,160 --> 01:57:39,360
was my big aha moment. Oh, don't
give me that access anymore. I

1763
01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:44,370
Dave Jones: used to work at an
insurance brokerage in it. And

1764
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:48,600
we ran a big as 400 system. This
is a this is 1000. Person.

1765
01:57:48,870 --> 01:57:53,790
Company. Yes. 400. Man classic.
Millions and millions and

1766
01:57:53,790 --> 01:57:57,000
millions of dollars of insurance
premiums going through this

1767
01:57:57,000 --> 01:58:04,110
company. And then all the night
everything ran as a batch job as

1768
01:58:04,110 --> 01:58:07,770
400 to print all the debt, all
the premium notices and all this

1769
01:58:07,770 --> 01:58:13,410
kind of stuff. The COBOL we do
in COBOL? No is RPG? Yeah, is

1770
01:58:13,410 --> 01:58:18,780
the native language on is 400.
So it was said the we had a new

1771
01:58:18,780 --> 01:58:25,260
guy in it. And he he was just he
just needed a job. Like he had

1772
01:58:25,260 --> 01:58:29,130
an history degree like he didn't
know hardly anything about about

1773
01:58:29,130 --> 01:58:33,180
anything with computers. And
they hired him. And then like a

1774
01:58:33,180 --> 01:58:37,920
week later, all the all the MIS
people you know, it used to be a

1775
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,820
separate department in my es mi
Yes, yes. Yeah, of course, all

1776
01:58:41,820 --> 01:58:46,410
the MIS people were like, nobody
wanted to stay the regular night

1777
01:58:46,410 --> 01:58:49,260
operator guy was off and none of
them wanted to stay late. So

1778
01:58:49,260 --> 01:58:51,750
they're like, hey, we'll just
give this this guy with a

1779
01:58:51,750 --> 01:58:56,280
history degree a crash course.
There was 400 job management

1780
01:58:56,310 --> 01:59:00,180
with RPGA. Yeah, with and so
they gave him a 15 minute,

1781
01:59:00,180 --> 01:59:02,850
here's a here's how you do this.
You run this command, you wait

1782
01:59:02,850 --> 01:59:05,280
to this other thing happens. You
run this command, and then you

1783
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:07,740
do these things. But whatever
you do, don't do this thing at

1784
01:59:07,740 --> 01:59:11,220
this time, because that'll screw
everything up. And he did that

1785
01:59:11,220 --> 01:59:15,300
thing. It two o'clock in the
morning. The thing was so

1786
01:59:15,300 --> 01:59:17,670
screwed. They had to just start
they just had to punt and

1787
01:59:17,670 --> 01:59:21,900
restart restoring from backup.
Oh no. He started running batch

1788
01:59:21,900 --> 01:59:26,670
jobs on top of each other. And
deleting stuff. It was a it was

1789
01:59:26,670 --> 01:59:29,190
like a almost business ending
event.

1790
01:59:30,690 --> 01:59:32,370
Adam Curry: And I'm like, what
did you think was gonna happen?

1791
01:59:32,370 --> 01:59:36,390
Fantastic. Ah, Dave, there's
another podcast in here for us,

1792
01:59:36,390 --> 01:59:38,640
ma'am. Yes. tales from the
trenches.

1793
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:45,180
Dave Jones: Magnolia mayhem, do
7777 to fountain Magnolia mayhem

1794
01:59:45,180 --> 01:59:47,820
says there's already a good
number of audiobooks on our set.

1795
01:59:48,300 --> 01:59:50,640
That's podcasting. Yes, there
there are, that's for sure.

1796
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:55,440
Mostly creepy pasta stuff like
Tales from the gas station.

1797
01:59:55,740 --> 02:00:00,450
Several productions of Bourassa
last known position etc. but

1798
02:00:00,450 --> 02:00:03,480
it's a foot in the door. I wish
I could think of some non horror

1799
02:00:03,480 --> 02:00:06,690
examples. But outside of that I
just have custom RSS feeds on my

1800
02:00:06,690 --> 02:00:10,500
NAS for my own audio book ribs.
It's pretty easy. Yeah, either

1801
02:00:10,500 --> 02:00:13,470
way. We're already heading in
that direction. Right? Oh, it is

1802
02:00:13,470 --> 02:00:15,540
creepy pasta. What does that
mean?

1803
02:00:17,820 --> 02:00:19,920
Adam Curry: It's a good band
name.

1804
02:00:21,450 --> 02:00:22,260
Dave Jones: Yes.

1805
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:24,630
Adam Curry: Not everybody with
creepypasta.

1806
02:00:26,820 --> 02:00:31,410
Dave Jones: See, Jean been 2222.
Hey, Jean to cast magic. He

1807
02:00:31,410 --> 02:00:35,910
says, I think Dave is right
about the K God. K God feed

1808
02:00:35,910 --> 02:00:39,330
being a podcast l feed. But do
any apps actually support

1809
02:00:39,330 --> 02:00:41,160
podcast l playlists? They

1810
02:00:41,160 --> 02:00:43,890
Adam Curry: will? They will,
they will. They will. Because

1811
02:00:43,890 --> 02:00:47,070
that that project will that will
happen. Somehow that's going to

1812
02:00:47,070 --> 02:00:49,590
happen. Someone's going to do if
it's not me, it's going to be

1813
02:00:49,590 --> 02:00:52,080
somebody's going to happen. Sam
Sathya also sent me a very

1814
02:00:52,260 --> 02:00:56,700
thoughtful email with all kinds
of ideas about that. I'm still

1815
02:00:56,700 --> 02:01:00,090
processing everything. He thinks
that should be the publisher

1816
02:01:00,090 --> 02:01:02,880
feet. I'm thinking the podcast
so I think the list is the way

1817
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:05,400
to go. But we're working on it.
We're working on it. There's

1818
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:07,620
plenty figured out whenever we
will figure it out. Of course

1819
02:01:07,650 --> 02:01:11,010
Dave Jones: do stuff, see what
works, and then go yep, yep.

1820
02:01:11,190 --> 02:01:15,690
Yep, comic strip blogger, the
delimiter. Here we go. 23,000

1821
02:01:15,690 --> 02:01:21,420
SAS through fountain CSB says,
howdy, David Adam. I'd like to

1822
02:01:21,420 --> 02:01:24,330
recommend a podcast about
important things in life,

1823
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:29,430
literal quote from the last
episode. Quote, I am so happy

1824
02:01:29,430 --> 02:01:33,750
with my new exercise regime,
also called having a job. I

1825
02:01:33,750 --> 02:01:37,350
don't know if I'll let you know
if I can see my junk in the

1826
02:01:37,350 --> 02:01:42,090
shower someday. Unquote. Said
Ryan bemrose. The delivery

1827
02:01:42,090 --> 02:01:45,720
driver for Amazon's
subcontractor from Seattle other

1828
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:50,220
co host is some unemployed Irish
guy called Darren or Darren from

1829
02:01:50,220 --> 02:01:57,900
a shoe rack Wars era. Check it
out at www dot grumpy old Ben's

1830
02:01:57,900 --> 02:02:01,320
dot com comma yo CSB. So

1831
02:02:01,440 --> 02:02:04,770
Adam Curry: Devora divorce.
Darren O'Neill always does the

1832
02:02:04,770 --> 02:02:08,940
Rock and Roll pre show complete
copyright violation before every

1833
02:02:09,540 --> 02:02:12,180
it's the copyright or copyright
violation show before every no

1834
02:02:12,180 --> 02:02:16,470
agenda live show. And John was
ragging on him. He says Darrell,

1835
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:19,650
I'm like Wow, man. The guy has
been doing this for years and

1836
02:02:19,650 --> 02:02:22,320
you still know his name. You
call him Darryl now instead of

1837
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:25,830
Darren. So that's what I think
we should just in the knife that

1838
02:02:25,830 --> 02:02:28,890
we should play commerce or
bloggers jingle. We haven't

1839
02:02:28,890 --> 02:02:30,420
played that in a while. Yeah, do
it hit a

1840
02:02:31,110 --> 02:02:31,920
Unknown: comic strip.

1841
02:02:33,690 --> 02:02:34,470
Dave Jones: Comic Strip,

1842
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:35,370
Unknown: Comic Strip,

1843
02:02:35,820 --> 02:02:36,240
strip.

1844
02:02:38,010 --> 02:02:42,180
Comic Strip. Comics jam comic
strip.

1845
02:02:44,250 --> 02:02:47,970
Adam Curry: Classic has been
around for 15 years that that

1846
02:02:47,970 --> 02:02:50,040
jingle probably gets

1847
02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:53,370
Dave Jones: the monthlies.
Alright Terry Terry killer $5

1848
02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:58,680
Thank you, Terry. Silicone
florist. $10 Chris cow and $5

1849
02:02:59,070 --> 02:03:04,500
Damon Cazal Jack $15. Yarn,
Rosenstein. $1 Derek J. Vickery,

1850
02:03:04,530 --> 02:03:08,700
the best name and podcasting.
$21. Jeremy gerdts. $5. Michael

1851
02:03:08,700 --> 02:03:13,590
Hall $5.50. and New Media
projections. That's Todd and Rob

1852
02:03:13,890 --> 02:03:15,510
$30. Go

1853
02:03:15,510 --> 02:03:17,790
Adam Curry: thank you all very
much. You know, I read somewhere

1854
02:03:17,790 --> 02:03:20,730
I think tally coin. Did they
shut down the tally coin shut

1855
02:03:20,730 --> 02:03:21,090
down?

1856
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:22,530
Dave Jones: No.

1857
02:03:23,310 --> 02:03:25,860
Adam Curry: You wouldn't know
because nothing ever comes in

1858
02:03:25,860 --> 02:03:29,100
through tally coin. So we
wouldn't know. That's right.

1859
02:03:29,490 --> 02:03:31,620
Dave Jones: If a tree falls in
the woods, nobody's around to

1860
02:03:31,620 --> 02:03:31,980
hear it. And

1861
02:03:31,980 --> 02:03:33,930
Adam Curry: we'll tally coin
have a receipt. Nope. They

1862
02:03:33,930 --> 02:03:39,210
won't. Hey, good board meeting
everybody. I feel like we we fix

1863
02:03:39,210 --> 02:03:42,240
the we saw a lot of stuff once
again. That's a board did you

1864
02:03:42,270 --> 02:03:43,920
who's doing the meeting minutes?

1865
02:03:45,600 --> 02:03:47,010
Dave Jones: Somebody's got it.
Somebody's

1866
02:03:47,010 --> 02:03:47,700
Adam Curry: got it. My

1867
02:03:47,700 --> 02:03:48,660
Dave Jones: name. And Mike's got
it.

1868
02:03:48,690 --> 02:03:52,740
Adam Curry: Yeah. All right.
Brother. Have a great weekend.

1869
02:03:52,740 --> 02:03:53,100
Dave.

1870
02:03:53,550 --> 02:03:55,590
Dave Jones: Yeah. Have a good
trip to Nashville. Yes.

1871
02:03:55,590 --> 02:03:57,150
Adam Curry: Yes. Yeah, I'm
looking forward to it's going to

1872
02:03:57,150 --> 02:03:59,550
be a lot of fun. Okay. boardroom
Thank you very much for being

1873
02:03:59,550 --> 02:04:04,110
here. Once again. We'll be back
in two weeks for another

1874
02:04:04,350 --> 02:04:07,890
probably extended edition of the
podcasting 2.0 podcast See you

1875
02:04:07,890 --> 02:04:08,520
then everybody.

1876
02:04:24,960 --> 02:04:29,520
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts

1877
02:04:29,550 --> 02:04:33,570
index.org. For more information,
go podcast.

1878
02:04:34,020 --> 02:04:34,740
Adam Curry: Podcasting

1879
02:04:34,740 --> 02:04:36,150
Dave Jones: is the anti monopoly