1 00:00:00,870 --> 00:00:05,700 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 February 2 2024 Episode 166 2 00:00:05,850 --> 00:00:11,790 Country clever. Hello, everybody. Hello transcript AI 3 00:00:11,790 --> 00:00:16,770 engine. Can you keep up with making the podcast and 2.0? And 4 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:21,240 is the official board meetings of podcasting? In general, not 5 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:23,940 just the two Oh, all of it. That's right. We are the only 6 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:27,720 boardroom that puts the BS and value for value. I'm Adam curry 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,300 here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama, 8 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:33,660 the man who sniffs out feed spam faster than a New York rat 9 00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:36,900 looking for pizza. Say hello to my friend on the other end lays 10 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:46,380 down with the one and only Mr. De Joe. Trying to turn your name 11 00:00:46,380 --> 00:00:54,060 into Dave Joe. Yes, what you did there. John C. Dvorak. And Dave 12 00:00:54,060 --> 00:00:57,930 Joe. Yeah, exactly. I thought that was the funniest bit of the 13 00:00:57,930 --> 00:01:01,890 very first podcast in 2.0. Transcribed by Apple that they 14 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:03,240 got your name? Yes. Dave Joe, 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:04,560 Unknown: right out of the gate. 16 00:01:06,450 --> 00:01:08,010 Adam Curry: Honestly, it was pretty hard. I mean, I don't 17 00:01:08,010 --> 00:01:10,140 think many people could have figured that one out, including 18 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:11,490 the AI Yeah, 19 00:01:11,489 --> 00:01:16,529 Dave Jones: I mean, when you say you know day to day as I would 20 00:01:17,790 --> 00:01:19,800 Adam Curry: I'm just leaving it Dave Joe. Hey, Dave. Joe, how 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,880 you doing? I'm 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:21,930 Dave Jones: good. How are you? 23 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:25,260 Adam Curry: I'm Curtis good over here. Yeah, everything 24 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:28,170 everything's rockin and rollin. I'm waiting for the for the 25 00:01:28,170 --> 00:01:31,860 Amazon man. I'm very excited. I ordered a remarkable to 26 00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:38,520 Dave Jones: I've seen I've seen little video. By the way. I'm 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,500 going to be doing this a lot because I've been fighting a 28 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:41,610 cold this week. Now 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,340 Adam Curry: is that time of year again for you? It's your your 30 00:01:44,910 --> 00:01:47,160 late boys that you're cordially called. 31 00:01:47,849 --> 00:01:52,109 Dave Jones: Yes, yes, it is. That I've seen I've seen little 32 00:01:52,559 --> 00:01:56,039 like blurbs about this thing. What it's what is it like a note 33 00:01:56,039 --> 00:01:57,359 taking device? Yeah, it's 34 00:01:57,420 --> 00:02:00,690 Adam Curry: a buddy of mine. When we went to Dallas. Last 35 00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:04,350 week, my my buddy had it. He's like, I was supposed to get one 36 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:08,520 from Guy Kawasaki is his company. He said, Oh, you do my 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,310 remarkable people podcast and I'll send you one he never sent 38 00:02:11,310 --> 00:02:14,850 me once. Okay. Okay, it was part of this but so long ago was 39 00:02:14,850 --> 00:02:18,180 probably the remarkable one. So that the remarkable to Yeah, 40 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:23,460 it's like, electronic paper for note taking and I go through so 41 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:28,170 many notepads, those little yellow legal notepads though, I 42 00:02:28,170 --> 00:02:30,870 Dave Jones: fly through 10 of those things a month. Yeah. And, 43 00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:33,000 Adam Curry: and, you know, I'm always looking for one and then, 44 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:36,360 you know, as as it get as the stack, as it gets thinner, it 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,790 gets harder to write on and then you know, like, it has a time 46 00:02:38,790 --> 00:02:42,480 for a new one. And, yes, and so the whole thing, it's really 47 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,870 just because every single show, I have a page. And you know, and 48 00:02:48,870 --> 00:02:52,860 I write down ideas, thoughts, I usually write down, you know, 49 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:56,760 maybe just something beforehand, show titles, just the general 50 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,010 stuff and thought, well, it would make sense to have the 51 00:02:59,010 --> 00:03:02,610 gist on some kind of E paper. And I tried it out and I was 52 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:04,260 pretty impressed. It felt good. 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,660 Dave Jones: The joy of a fresh legal pad that's full that 54 00:03:09,660 --> 00:03:13,020 hasn't had any Yeah. You know, like, I mean, it's like, it's 55 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:15,990 hard to replicate this house. Listen, I don't remember what 56 00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:18,240 this was. I was listening to a podcast one time a long time 57 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:24,240 ago. And they were saying they had a question that was like if 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:31,260 you were if you were fabulously wealthy like you know, leave the 59 00:03:31,260 --> 00:03:32,070 planet wealthy 60 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:35,370 Adam Curry: leave your wife wealthy Yes. So leave you as 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,460 Dave Jones: if you were that level of fill in the blank 62 00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:44,760 wealthy. And you know, what would one completely frivolous 63 00:03:45,150 --> 00:03:49,110 absurd thing you would you would do because money was no object. 64 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,880 So and I forgot who this was but they were like and I agreed 65 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,120 fully with this with what they with what what He said He said I 66 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,720 would he said the feeling of fresh socks that you just bought 67 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,750 from the store. He's like I would wear a brand new pair of 68 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:08,310 socks every single day of my life. No, you know like an 69 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:10,980 interesting I feel that I feel that way about legal pads I 70 00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:13,380 would have I would just never used the fresh fresh 71 00:04:13,380 --> 00:04:15,840 Adam Curry: legal pad. Well yeah, it would be something like 72 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,900 that for me because I had a lot of money at one time and I had 73 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,160 helicopters and castles and it doesn't live up to the hype. 74 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:26,880 Dave Jones: It really does a fresh socks every day is no 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:27,540 shocks every 76 00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:30,420 Adam Curry: no fresh socks every day is you know might be might 77 00:04:30,420 --> 00:04:33,810 be something that will be good compared to all the other things 78 00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:38,580 you can do is absolutely true. Absolutely true. Hey RSS wins 79 00:04:38,580 --> 00:04:45,660 again brother. We want again RSS wins ago call me on the color 80 00:04:45,660 --> 00:04:46,590 and color daddy 81 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:55,740 Dave Jones: the most is this is this the okay let me let me let 82 00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:58,080 me explain my my explain 83 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,970 Adam Curry: Morris what that means for people who don't care. 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,660 Bob with the podcasting industrial complex, and please 85 00:05:03,660 --> 00:05:08,790 goodness, call her daddy was a Spotify exclusive three years 86 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:11,820 $60 million rumored because no one really knows these numbers. 87 00:05:11,850 --> 00:05:15,510 Yeah, that's no one really knows Joe Rogan's actual number. They 88 00:05:15,510 --> 00:05:18,510 just, you know, just became a number. I personally think it's 89 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:23,970 higher than the 200 million people always said it was. And 90 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,530 so that deal, I guess, ended it expired, and she's still on 91 00:05:28,530 --> 00:05:33,750 Spotify, but to the feed is open, and it's available on all 92 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:36,270 platforms, including the modern podcast apps. 93 00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:40,920 Dave Jones: Now, I've got two thoughts about this. Thought one 94 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:47,010 is, in this case, I've got this feeling that, that she's a 95 00:05:47,010 --> 00:05:50,460 blabber. And that people actually do know how much this 96 00:05:50,460 --> 00:05:54,210 money was because she seems like the type of person who doesn't 97 00:05:54,210 --> 00:05:58,740 keep these things to herself. That bet you I bet you that the 98 00:05:58,740 --> 00:06:01,950 rumored amount of this is actually pretty accurate. 99 00:06:02,130 --> 00:06:05,250 Adam Curry: Oh, of the first one possibly notice. There's no 100 00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:10,350 Rogen. No. Notice, there's no rumored amount of this. Alice, 101 00:06:10,350 --> 00:06:14,700 she's open, I think the deal is over. They'll do the acid sales, 102 00:06:14,730 --> 00:06:18,300 you know that maybe maybe there's some minimum. But 103 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,780 notice, there's no yeah, they remove renew me for 10 million 104 00:06:21,780 --> 00:06:25,110 and and we're gonna be an old podcast app. So I'm in agreement 105 00:06:25,110 --> 00:06:28,770 with you there that that that would have been part of the part 106 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:31,440 of the announcement? Was it even an announcement? Or was it just 107 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:32,460 it just kind of happened? 108 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,480 Dave Jones: I think was a press release. Okay, all right. So um, 109 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,630 her not from Spotify as much. That's the way it looked to me. 110 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,170 They look like it was from her new publishing company or 111 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:50,430 whatever. The the the other thing is, this is like, this 112 00:06:50,430 --> 00:06:58,200 show in particular has always triggered in me, to my doubt of 113 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:01,440 Unknown: humanity as humanity. Well, 114 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,290 Dave Jones: yes, yes. But in a roundabout in a very specific 115 00:07:04,290 --> 00:07:08,910 way. That, that we've we're always told that about how 116 00:07:08,910 --> 00:07:12,600 squeamish advertisers are and that they never want to be next 117 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,560 to controversial content or that kind of this is the nastiest 118 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,500 show. I mean, it is just full of all. I mean, it is just not 119 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:25,800 Adam Curry: raunchy, have you listened, are there ads? Are 120 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,080 they pre rolls, they have anything going on? 121 00:07:28,589 --> 00:07:31,349 Dave Jones: I have not listened. I lit when she first went 122 00:07:31,349 --> 00:07:34,979 exclusive on Spotify. I listened to it to find out what the hype 123 00:07:34,979 --> 00:07:38,459 was. And I didn't make it through. I mean, there's, 124 00:07:38,489 --> 00:07:42,239 there's you have to rate this show it like F bombs per minute. 125 00:07:42,659 --> 00:07:47,219 It is just horrible. And so I didn't I was like, this is 126 00:07:47,429 --> 00:07:50,309 totally not my thing. Right. I haven't listened to it in 127 00:07:50,309 --> 00:07:53,309 probably, you know, a year whatever. She went exclusive. 128 00:07:53,309 --> 00:07:53,819 Let's let's 129 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:56,430 Adam Curry: see if they ever pre roll on a second. See if they've 130 00:07:56,430 --> 00:08:04,020 pre roll. What is up daddy gang? No pre roll. No, 131 00:08:04,110 --> 00:08:05,640 Dave Jones: that's not a good sign. No, 132 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:07,650 Adam Curry: I think the deal just ended. 133 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:10,290 Dave Jones: I think it did, too. I think you're right. And you 134 00:08:10,290 --> 00:08:14,700 know, this is also the other sort of big like deal. News this 135 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:20,460 week was the Smartlist thing moving from Amazon too serious. 136 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,060 For 100 in that deal, did renew for $100 million. Over three 137 00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:24,300 years. 138 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,900 Adam Curry: I believe that and it's three top guys. They got to 139 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:31,200 each do about 10 million a year. It's a lot of how many episodes 140 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,510 they do a week. 141 00:08:34,770 --> 00:08:36,150 Dave Jones: I don't know. They just they put out a lot of 142 00:08:36,150 --> 00:08:37,710 content. Yeah, yeah. And 143 00:08:37,709 --> 00:08:39,839 Adam Curry: they're, they're they're big names makes it 144 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:44,279 what's it called again? What's the show called smartlace is now 145 00:08:44,309 --> 00:08:46,949 is not also available? 146 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Dave Jones: Yes. windowed is like exclusive for the first 147 00:08:51,690 --> 00:08:53,130 week and then runs out Dave. Right. Right. 148 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:56,700 Adam Curry: Let me see what they do with nine just seems like 149 00:08:56,700 --> 00:09:02,430 once a week, and now wait, this one on the second 115. So 150 00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:05,310 they're doing one by one a week. Now, 151 00:09:05,310 --> 00:09:09,870 Dave Jones: I mean, I feel like I feel like this type of show. 152 00:09:10,830 --> 00:09:16,560 So just because all the big, huge deals dried up doesn't mean 153 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,770 that nobody's worth a lot of money. There are certain shows 154 00:09:19,770 --> 00:09:22,530 that are really worth a lot of money. And this Rogen being one 155 00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:26,250 of them obviously smartlace that I think that 100 million. I 156 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:28,110 don't think serious would have paid it if they knew they 157 00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:31,590 couldn't if they didn't have a track record of it paying off 158 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:34,230 Adam Curry: Oh serious paid a lot of money for Stern. I mean, 159 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:40,170 they Yeah, they're deficit finance. I'm really happy for 160 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:43,410 Jason Bateman though. I hung out with him. That means that we 161 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:45,300 talked about this I hung out with a couple times back in the 162 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:49,440 MTV days he was at the bottom of the stack. His his sister, 163 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:54,420 Justine Bateman. She was top of the bill. She was I forget what 164 00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:57,660 she was in all kinds of stuff and it was visa so yeah, it was 165 00:09:57,660 --> 00:10:00,720 so bad that people mistakenly called him just Didn't Bateman 166 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,210 you know that I was like it was like he said, people call me 167 00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:06,030 Justin Bateman all the time. I think he was doing Teen Wolf 168 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:09,810 four or something like that it was. He was really cool. And he 169 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:14,220 was a super nice guy. I'm like, Oh man, I feel bad for you. It's 170 00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:16,830 just kind of sucks. But this is talent. You know, we learned 171 00:10:16,830 --> 00:10:21,540 that talent Sean Hayes talent. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure that 172 00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:23,430 series can make it worth their while. 173 00:10:23,970 --> 00:10:27,000 Dave Jones: I always judge these things based on if I know 174 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,850 anybody who who has ever who shows awareness of this show, in 175 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:39,180 that I know people in my sphere that in my friend, group, 176 00:10:39,810 --> 00:10:42,330 Adam Curry: everyone knows about this show. Everybody knows about 177 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:42,420 it. 178 00:10:42,810 --> 00:10:44,670 Dave Jones: Yeah, so that means I'm like, Okay, if there's 179 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:47,970 recognize if you can just walk you know, if you can just 180 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,330 casually be talking in a group with with friends. And this 181 00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:54,690 somebody mentions a particular show. That means it's big enough 182 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:57,720 to be justifying the money that people share on the show. 183 00:10:57,780 --> 00:11:01,080 Adam Curry: Yeah, the three big names so yeah, that makes sense. 184 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:03,570 I don't know if they're gonna make the money back. But you 185 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:07,410 know, they, they do a lot of house ads, advertising for other 186 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:09,960 podcasts. They're really trying to do something that 187 00:11:11,220 --> 00:11:13,680 Dave Jones: is breaking news breaking breaking news, Radio, 188 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,340 Spotify deal renewal worth up to $250 million podcast will no 189 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:21,540 longer be exclusive to Spotify. Interesting. Nathan just dropped 190 00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:23,130 in variety link 191 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,360 Adam Curry: right, but who says is 250 million. Spotify 192 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,220 Dave Jones: is a new multi year partnership deal for 193 00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:30,240 controversial values 194 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,660 Adam Curry: just said to be worth said to be worth. And 195 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,430 Dave Jones: didn't you pat Rogan's poker show will now be 196 00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:37,710 available on other audio platforms. In addition being 197 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:39,930 available on Spotify Reagan's show will soon be available on 198 00:11:39,930 --> 00:11:42,480 additional services, including Apple podcasts on Apple, Amazon 199 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240 music, YouTube, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so it's no this is 200 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:45,840 this move. 201 00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:48,330 Adam Curry: This move comes under Spotify as revised 202 00:11:48,330 --> 00:11:51,750 strategy to relinquish exclusive streaming rights in favor of 203 00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:56,910 broader distribution. So that means that they could not make 204 00:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,210 enough money on the ads, if this is true, that they needed more 205 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:04,140 distribution, which is goes back to my original point, RSS wins. 206 00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:10,020 Yeah. And I know that buying a spot on Rogen is expensive, a 207 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:12,930 bit because I know someone who tried to buy a spot. He's like, 208 00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:16,830 No, I don't have a million dollars. You have to buy, you 209 00:12:16,830 --> 00:12:20,820 know, not just Rogen, you got to buy a random network. So good. 210 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:23,160 Well, I'll ping him and I'll congratulate him on this. And 211 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,320 then maybe you'll have me on again. Because he never wants to 212 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,360 invite me before his deal was done. Because, you know, I'm 213 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,630 going to start probing. Like, what's going on? What's going 214 00:12:33,630 --> 00:12:36,990 on? Joe was going on, Joe, I'm happy for him. I was I was 215 00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:40,290 concerned. I mean, I was like, hi, hope Spotify has the money. 216 00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:44,610 Dave Jones: Said to be worth up to 250 million. So if if the 217 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:47,310 list, let's just say that the room? You know, of course nobody 218 00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:49,440 knows accurate things. Let's just say it is let's just say 219 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,030 that they're in the 220 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:54,000 Unknown: ballpark. But let's welcome them back to podcasting, 221 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,170 man. Yeah, 222 00:12:55,170 --> 00:12:59,370 Dave Jones: the old one was 200 million. The new one is 250 223 00:12:59,370 --> 00:13:04,560 million plus non exclusivity. Right. That tells me a lot, 224 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:09,330 right? Yeah, yes. Yeah. He's worth more as a non exclusive 225 00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:11,910 than he is as an exclusive. Yeah. And I think that's 226 00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,010 probably why they're doing all this while their break. Well, 227 00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,860 they're not doing these. Because there's, you know, there's a lot 228 00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:21,780 of stories about Spotify bringing podcasters in to be 229 00:13:21,780 --> 00:13:26,340 exclusive. And it wrecked their show. Oh, yeah. You You went 230 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,790 exclusive. You got you got this deal. You went exclusive. The 231 00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:35,460 deal ran out. Then you went back on the all the podcast apps. But 232 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:37,560 you had lost all your subscribers and everybody just 233 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,800 kind of forgotten about your show. And so you're you now Yes, 234 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,230 like you're almost starting from scratch all over again. They 235 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:46,320 just kind of cut you loose to drift off into the ocean. So 236 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,890 Adam Curry: I wonder if he'll be renewing his Lipson feed if 237 00:13:49,890 --> 00:13:51,210 he'll if he'll pick that up again. 238 00:13:52,020 --> 00:13:56,760 Dave Jones: Huh. Oh, I don't know. That's a good point. Or I 239 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,080 would bet is on megaphone. 240 00:13:58,140 --> 00:14:00,270 Unknown: I would doubt that it's because you would think so. 241 00:14:00,270 --> 00:14:01,380 Yeah, you would. Yeah. 242 00:14:02,430 --> 00:14:04,110 Dave Jones: Welcome back, Joe. Yeah, 243 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,260 Adam Curry: indeed. And I'm just looking like, oh, man, he might 244 00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:09,540 have changed his number. I think I've lost contacts. 245 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:14,010 Dave Jones: Oh, no. He's ghosting you. Yeah, 246 00:14:14,010 --> 00:14:18,570 Adam Curry: he changes his phone often. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that he's 247 00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:22,500 like just what he'll do is get a new phone. Usually when a new 248 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:24,870 iPhone comes out, he'll get a new phone and he puts the other 249 00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:27,240 one aside he says because so many idiots get his number he 250 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,590 says six very crazy which I have as well except they're all from 251 00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:34,950 China. And they're all chicks the same chick and I'm Tiffany 252 00:14:34,950 --> 00:14:35,700 Asia. 253 00:14:36,330 --> 00:14:38,040 Dave Jones: Always wanted to always go into get a tennis 254 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,110 practice with you for some reason I Yeah. 255 00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:42,870 Adam Curry: Tennis practice shopping. Are you okay? Haven't 256 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:50,100 heard from you? Anyway, so I think that that really shows 257 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:54,930 that that along with with Apple's entrance into the new 258 00:14:54,930 --> 00:14:57,510 into the namespace tag with transcript I think that really 259 00:14:57,510 --> 00:15:01,140 shows that RSS without anyone owning without anyone being in 260 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:04,020 charge of it, once again, it just keeps on trucking. 261 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:09,720 Dave Jones: Yeah. And and tell me tell me again how to how RSS 262 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,710 isn't working. No podcasting, audio, you know how podcasting 263 00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:16,410 isn't isn't, you know, paying the bills, I 264 00:15:16,410 --> 00:15:19,140 Adam Curry: think it was I think was Spurlock who posted that. 265 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:22,230 And it's true that YouTube because they had RSS feeds 266 00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:27,270 YouTube had RSS feeds with a link to the to the video, which 267 00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:30,000 was not as an enclosure or anything. It was just a link. So 268 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,090 you could you could actually follow along. You could 269 00:15:33,090 --> 00:15:38,730 subscribe to youtube feeds, and they removed them. Yeah, that's 270 00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:41,250 all that yeah, surprise, surprise. I know why is because 271 00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:45,510 we were talking about putting those into podcast apps. They're 272 00:15:45,510 --> 00:15:49,260 like, Oh, we can't have that. We have shut it down. We haven't 273 00:15:49,260 --> 00:15:54,000 even figured out our you know, played status yet. We can't have 274 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,010 those guys jumping ahead. That's no good. 275 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,410 Dave Jones: But you have the I thought something I listened to 276 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:08,280 upon putting these weekly this morning. And I thought something 277 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,620 that they were talking about those pretty interesting. Was 278 00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:13,410 this a cast blocking YouTube ingestion? 279 00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:15,810 Unknown: Oh, they have? I don't have to do that. 280 00:16:16,439 --> 00:16:20,279 Dave Jones: I agree totally with me. No. This is basically what 281 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:23,999 you said back in. You made you made the point so eloquently 282 00:16:23,999 --> 00:16:29,009 about saying if you you know if you play with YouTube, you're 283 00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:32,309 you know, you're the devil's friend in your ear set your what 284 00:16:32,309 --> 00:16:34,469 do you say your Satan's salesperson? 285 00:16:36,030 --> 00:16:36,840 Adam Curry: Sounds like me? 286 00:16:39,570 --> 00:16:42,630 Dave Jones: In a cast is like, yeah, we're not going to help 287 00:16:42,630 --> 00:16:46,920 Satan. We're gonna, we're gonna go our own way. Because I don't 288 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,400 know why in your world, you would. Right? It's craziness. 289 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,470 You're just giving. If you're if your platform is all based on 290 00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:58,710 digital advertising, why would you just hand that off to 291 00:16:58,710 --> 00:17:02,100 somebody else to monetize is goofy? Yeah. 292 00:17:02,190 --> 00:17:05,370 Adam Curry: Wow. Again, this is this is just it's par for the 293 00:17:05,370 --> 00:17:07,860 course we've seen it all happened. I mean, it's 294 00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:12,360 interesting that there's a parallel here, as we're three 295 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:23,160 years into podcasting, 2.0 og podcasting started. And, I mean, 296 00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:25,860 we purposely replicated something I did, which was the 297 00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:29,340 daily source code, which was meant for the developers and 298 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,240 really just to give someone everybody who was developing an 299 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,840 application, we had no apps or phones back then an application 300 00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:40,560 for Windows or Mac. And then there was a, there was some 301 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,030 Linux stuff as well, to give them a feed with with a new 302 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,330 enclosure every day with a new item, new enclosure. That was 303 00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:51,810 that was the whole point. And just to talk about what was 304 00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:54,360 going on, and my own personal feedback, so I was kind of 305 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,860 feeding back to the developer. So we replicated that with the 306 00:17:58,860 --> 00:18:03,300 podcast and 2.0 podcast. And it was about, I want to say it was 307 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:09,300 about three years in when Steve Jobs called me. And that was 308 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:11,670 that was Apple jumping in saying, hey, we want to do 309 00:18:11,670 --> 00:18:14,400 something with this. And it's been about being Yeah, here's 310 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,160 the parallel about three years and now Apple says, hey, you 311 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,240 know, and they called in, they got they got you. Where's that? 312 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,580 I think? It's kind of it's parallel. I like that. These 313 00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:29,790 things. I don't know. History doesn't always repeat. But 314 00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:31,920 rhyming for sure. For sure. 315 00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:34,620 Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah, definitely. It definitely 316 00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:38,610 rhymes. And I think he that's the other thing about the RSS 317 00:18:38,610 --> 00:18:44,220 world is that everybody is there's a there's always with 318 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:49,920 RSS, because it's open source. There's always a rising tide 319 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:56,160 lifts all boats mentality. Sure, sure. People want customers for 320 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,450 their app. Yes, that's the I'm not gonna you know, discount 321 00:19:00,450 --> 00:19:03,300 that you got to it's these some of these apps are businesses. 322 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,190 Some of them aren't. Some of these apps are hobbies and 323 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:07,950 projects. Some of these apps are businesses, and they won't 324 00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:12,180 customers, and that's fine. But they're really always is. I 325 00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:15,990 mean, that's why podcasting. 2.0 really has brought the podcast 326 00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:18,960 hosting companies together more than they ever were before. They 327 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,840 all knew each other, but they didn't. They didn't communicate 328 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,660 and participate to the level that they do now. I mean, 329 00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:28,290 there's more of a feeling of, you know, we're in this together 330 00:19:28,410 --> 00:19:32,820 type deal. And so I think that, you know, definitely, that's one 331 00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:36,960 thing that that is true about open source in general, but 332 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,880 especially RSS, because when, like when Apple what I saw was 333 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:48,210 when Apple did this last week. Everybody was happy. I mean, the 334 00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:50,220 app developers and everybody was happy because they're like, 335 00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:56,160 Well, you know, finally we get we're getting the we do like 336 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,820 what Alex said we feel validated. Yes. About the things 337 00:19:59,820 --> 00:20:02,310 that we We're doing because now you know they're doing it to the 338 00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:07,320 left, left here in the new media show this week. Rob's like well, 339 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,130 maybe this is just a you know, maybe this is just a fluke you 340 00:20:11,130 --> 00:20:14,400 Adam Curry: want he watched I mean, I don't know if Todd's not 341 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,330 on I'm sorry. All props to rob but it's the combo you know, you 342 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:22,860 need the two of them. Otherwise, it's just it's not quite as as 343 00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:24,870 as dangerous and exciting. 344 00:20:25,470 --> 00:20:28,620 Dave Jones: Yeah, I listened. All I heard was the clip that 345 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:32,340 John's Birla posted, because I'm like, I saw the YouTube link. 346 00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:33,690 I'm like, now I'm not listening to that. 347 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,230 Adam Curry: Oh, well, I missed the clip. What was the clip? It 348 00:20:37,230 --> 00:20:37,590 was 349 00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:42,300 Dave Jones: Rob asking them. I forgot the whole detail of it. 350 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,200 But it was Rob was talking to their Phil and co host Tom 351 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,160 Webster. And he said they meant he was trying to hear I got it 352 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,390 Unknown: here. Let me see. Okay, did see Apple, you know, embrace 353 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:59,130 the transcription tag. But I and many in the industry are kind of 354 00:20:59,130 --> 00:21:03,090 like excited about this. And thinking that this is a, you 355 00:21:03,090 --> 00:21:07,470 know, a crack of opportunity for the industry to be telling these 356 00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:11,610 big companies, while you're kind of unexcited, you know, 357 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,020 namespace tags that they will embrace going forward. I do 358 00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:19,980 wonder if this is really kind of an anomaly, because of the 359 00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:22,800 ubiquity and the interest. How 360 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,140 Adam Curry: long does it take before he says YouTube and video 361 00:21:25,170 --> 00:21:31,830 like as another 15 seconds or? Because that's, I watched some 362 00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:34,380 of it and like, ah, let's go back to where we are, again, 363 00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:38,430 even the title said it. The title I think literally said, 364 00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:40,230 you know, we talked about the 365 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,440 Dave Jones: what was the title? Like, okay, okay, Rob. So, so, 366 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:52,170 you know, podcasting 2.0 tags. They're not, I don't think he 367 00:21:52,170 --> 00:21:54,660 said this. But you know, there's a lot of people, you know, 368 00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:57,450 they're not going to be legitimate until a big company 369 00:21:57,450 --> 00:22:00,240 adopts them. And then when a big company adopts them, oh, it's 370 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,070 just an anomaly. And that's like, 371 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,970 Adam Curry: exactly, I mean, it was 10 years. And everyone said, 372 00:22:05,970 --> 00:22:09,240 no, no, no, no. And you're right, the hosting companies 373 00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:13,290 were apprehensive, or I'd call it an iron. You know, there were 374 00:22:13,290 --> 00:22:16,020 stocks like, well, if Apple doesn't add it, well, how about 375 00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:22,110 we just add 15 apps to the mix? And and that happened? And I 376 00:22:22,110 --> 00:22:25,470 think it's very cool. Now, I'm still I loved your blog post, by 377 00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:28,290 the way. I thought that was great. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Oh, 378 00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:31,710 yes. substack. I thought that was fantastic. Because I'm also 379 00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:34,410 one of the crazy ones, you know, I'd like my modern podcast app. 380 00:22:34,410 --> 00:22:37,320 I like all of those features. It'll be a long time before any 381 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,460 other mainstream app rivals that and I think our apps will go far 382 00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:42,210 beyond that. 383 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,620 Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, if you if you want, if that's if you 384 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:50,430 want the crazy listening, full featured listening experience, 385 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:56,520 if you want, if you want to see what podcasting over RSS is, is 386 00:22:56,550 --> 00:23:01,860 actually capable of of Yeah, like in a real full, extreme 387 00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:06,900 way. You want to podcasting 2.0 my, like, you want one of these 388 00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:10,830 crazy apps? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because you're not, that's 389 00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:14,640 not what Apple is. So like, the iPhone used to be the crazy 390 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,080 phone, ever, and the BlackBerry was the safe business phone. 391 00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:23,250 Didn't have any weird features. You're right. You know, and, 392 00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:27,330 and, but then they slowly switched. And so now, the way it 393 00:23:27,330 --> 00:23:30,900 is, is the iPhone, as you get as you become mature and get a huge 394 00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:35,550 market share, you become the the stable one, and you become the 395 00:23:35,550 --> 00:23:39,270 one that can do crazy things. And so that's what the iPhone 396 00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:43,410 became over these years is, and in Apple apps, they need to be 397 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,200 and they're going to be slow to add features. And they're going 398 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,160 to be very stable and, and predictable. Because they have 399 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:53,520 because they have, you know, 2 billion users or you know, 400 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,140 whatever the number is, but so they're not going to ever be the 401 00:23:58,140 --> 00:24:02,550 bleeding edge of feature feature set. And that's what I want. So, 402 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,290 you know, I'm not I'm not gonna switch but but that's okay. 403 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,360 Like, they will add more. Just like I think, I don't think 404 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,210 Spotify cares because I don't think that podcasting. I don't 405 00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:16,680 think they care much about podcasting. 406 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,330 Adam Curry: No, they care about keeping the lights on is what 407 00:24:21,330 --> 00:24:22,170 they care about. 408 00:24:22,860 --> 00:24:25,980 Dave Jones: Exactly the because you see, reading all these 409 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:29,160 articles about those the Universal Music tick tock thing. 410 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,040 Yeah, happened this week. Yeah, 411 00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:34,380 Adam Curry: that was that was quite interesting. It 412 00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:38,280 Dave Jones: tells you, you see where, you know, Spotify. 413 00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:43,710 Spotify is a player in that whole system. And because they 414 00:24:43,710 --> 00:24:46,770 were paying Spotify is really just a sticker on top of the 415 00:24:46,770 --> 00:24:52,920 music industry. And so the, there's no win win. You're those 416 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,580 guys. They don't care about stuff like this. It's just It's 417 00:24:56,580 --> 00:25:01,440 purely a money play. It's just pure luck. And the thing about 418 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,670 the Apple podcast team is Apple podcasts has never made any 419 00:25:05,670 --> 00:25:10,230 money for Apple. It's it's an idealistic part of the company. 420 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:14,820 There, they never have made any money or very little or they'll 421 00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:18,690 maybe they break even who knows, but it's not a profit center. It 422 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:25,410 never has been. It's it's more of a of a throwback to just old 423 00:25:25,410 --> 00:25:30,150 Apple where they had these were they had some parts of the 424 00:25:30,150 --> 00:25:34,320 company that were idealistic. And I think that still exists in 425 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,920 the podcast team. But that's not Spotify, Spotify, if they don't 426 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,750 get if they don't get money, if they don't get, you know $100 427 00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:45,870 million in profit immediately, they do not care about you. 428 00:25:46,740 --> 00:25:51,450 Adam Curry: The I'd like to tick tock Universal Music standoff 429 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:56,820 because it really is a standoff where I would say from my 430 00:25:56,820 --> 00:26:00,150 analysis and from what I know tick tock breaks music you know, 431 00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:04,800 tick tock is, is where music new music is introduced is where 432 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,930 music goes viral. The term is it's also heated. This is a big 433 00:26:09,930 --> 00:26:14,250 term all the kids are using Dave. I like it well in heated 434 00:26:14,250 --> 00:26:17,910 heated Oh, yeah, that's like, that's the algo so they they 435 00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:20,730 they crank up the algo on something by heating. Oh, it 436 00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:23,130 turns out, they got Yep, turn up the heat got the heat button. 437 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,970 Yeah, yeah, that's what they called the kids called heating. 438 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,550 Oh, they're heating those videos. How can I ever when 439 00:26:30,930 --> 00:26:32,640 Unknown: you can't that's the whole point. 440 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,170 Adam Curry: And so they're like, Hey, we're breaking these 441 00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:41,970 records for you. We don't want to pay as much in the music 442 00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:45,360 industry. Like you're you're screwing the artists man. Like 443 00:26:45,390 --> 00:26:46,260 okay. 444 00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:48,930 Dave Jones: Sure. Okay. I 445 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Adam Curry: thought I did have a clip of that. Let me say that I 446 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,070 have a clip. 447 00:26:53,970 --> 00:26:56,040 Dave Jones: I'm not sure this clip 448 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,310 Adam Curry: I have a clip. unplayed clip, a lot of popular 449 00:26:59,310 --> 00:27:02,370 Unknown: music could be about to vanish from Tik Tok Universal 450 00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:05,280 Music Group holds the rights to artists including Taylor Swift, 451 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,700 bad bunny, Drake and many others. It says a licensing deal 452 00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,450 with tick tock has expired, and it will no longer allow its 453 00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:15,240 artists music to be featured on the social media platform. 454 00:27:15,450 --> 00:27:19,110 Universal Music says tick tock is proposing to pay a fraction 455 00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:22,200 of what other social platforms pay tick tock claims the 456 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,800 decision is being fueled by corporate greed. Music will 457 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,000 disappear by the end of the day if a deal is not raised. Oh, 458 00:27:30,030 --> 00:27:32,100 Adam Curry: it's corporate greed. Go figure. 459 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:39,270 Dave Jones: You're so greedy. Please I think it's hilarious 460 00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:43,080 though. Just I don't I don't ever I've never been on tick 461 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,100 tock only tick tock things so here's what my kids and me 462 00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:51,270 through text messages. In the end it opens like in the browser 463 00:27:51,270 --> 00:27:55,410 or whatever. But But I do think it's hilarious to all of a 464 00:27:55,410 --> 00:27:59,910 sudden see like, some person dancing and there's no music 465 00:28:02,220 --> 00:28:04,890 Adam Curry: but I know a lot about this from the Costello 466 00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:08,550 family who I've been talking to a lot ever since they came on 467 00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:13,830 the scene. And you know, the first question even a lawyer 468 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:16,260 before lawyer will even because you know it's all lawyers right? 469 00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:19,110 You don't just go to a label now you got to get a lawyer your 470 00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:22,800 lawyer talks to their lawyer it's all lawyer stuff. The first 471 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,870 thing he said well how are your socials? What do you have on 472 00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:28,620 tick tock? You have to have X amount on tick tock, every movie 473 00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:32,370 every movie star even big stars is put into their into their 474 00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:35,940 contract you have to have tick tock you will post on tick tock. 475 00:28:36,180 --> 00:28:40,650 I think Tiktok has the upper hand here. I really I really do. 476 00:28:41,370 --> 00:28:43,290 Dave Jones: I don't know I feel the other way. I feel like I 477 00:28:43,290 --> 00:28:45,690 feel like the music labels have the upper hand because I don't 478 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:48,570 feel that I feel like tick tock is nothing without without the 479 00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:52,350 music. It's nothing I mean, like their business depends on the 480 00:28:52,350 --> 00:28:57,270 music labels. But at least the music labels have a mute they 481 00:28:57,270 --> 00:29:00,150 have music I mean like that people are gonna continue to 482 00:29:00,150 --> 00:29:05,520 listen to music, but people will just get like tick tock is 483 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,870 worthless without the music. I mean, you can just see because 484 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:13,440 the only other thing on tick tock that's of any that he gets 485 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:19,080 any play are sketches from stolen from stand up comedy 486 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,490 routines with a bunch of overlays put on it to try to 487 00:29:23,490 --> 00:29:25,860 fool the algorithm into thinking is not real. I 488 00:29:25,860 --> 00:29:28,290 Adam Curry: see I disagree. That's your scroll hole. I mean, 489 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,390 you get into the like that term. I pick it all from the scroll 490 00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:42,420 holy. I'm glad you like that. No, I mean so I see Tina and of 491 00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:46,950 course I have women on Tik Tok and, and what comes by for her 492 00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:50,520 is these videos of people who do voiceovers for the animals. 493 00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:55,320 Mainly with dogs. This is one guy was really good at us. You 494 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,740 know, there's a lot of there's a lot of that there's a lot that I 495 00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:03,090 mean even if He likes a lot of Jesus stuff. Once you get into 496 00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:07,650 the Jesus hole, whoa, that's all you get there. algos are very 497 00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:12,630 unifying. And they just give you all that stuff. So if you're 498 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,650 into dance dance videos, lots of music. Yeah, you're gonna get 499 00:30:16,650 --> 00:30:19,170 and I'm sure it may be the majority, I don't know. But 500 00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:23,070 there's a lot more on tick tock. It's just whatever, whatever you 501 00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:25,320 whatever you start to feed, the algorithm responds pretty 502 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:25,800 quickly. 503 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:29,340 Dave Jones: You're starting to change the history and to change 504 00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:30,510 my mind. Sorry, 505 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,990 Adam Curry: I'm saying it well. So let's just move beyond that 506 00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:40,650 for a moment. Because we are zigging to their zag. The value 507 00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:44,790 from the value versus the value for value music is, is getting 508 00:30:44,790 --> 00:30:49,680 pretty official. There's there's some licensing that's been 509 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,950 that's, that's in a very far reaching us. What is the word 510 00:30:55,950 --> 00:30:59,640 I'm looking for? It's it status is very close to being to being 511 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,200 usable, that 512 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,240 Dave Jones: I need you to explain this to me, because of 513 00:31:03,270 --> 00:31:06,420 the collectively there's been 150,000 words of emails that 514 00:31:06,420 --> 00:31:08,520 have flown by me and have not read any of them. 515 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,290 Adam Curry: So I've kind of I kind of threw a wrench into it 516 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:16,680 all. Because there was a lot about music, music, music, music 517 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,260 music. And I said, Why are you confusing yourself with music? 518 00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:28,230 Say you have an RSS feed? Yes. There's an mp3 file in in an 519 00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:32,460 item that is in an enclosure? Yes. Okay. How is that different 520 00:31:32,460 --> 00:31:37,800 from a podcast? Well, it's music. So it's, it's a podcast, 521 00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:42,210 you have a podcast that has very short episodes. If once you 522 00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:46,680 start to put that into your brain, and and remove all of the 523 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:51,840 old school licensing that we've all been accustomed to, and you 524 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,470 talk to any lawyer, the minute you say, oh, it's musical, oh, 525 00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:59,940 this has to happen every day. Oh, this is how we do this? No, 526 00:32:00,420 --> 00:32:05,250 no. And so there's really two, there's three, three pieces. One 527 00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:10,260 is you need new agreements with the people who worked on a song. 528 00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:17,280 And you still have some old school. Traditional names for 529 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,100 those. So writer, composer, producer, the person who owns 530 00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:27,810 the master, who may or may not who might have put up the money, 531 00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:30,480 you know, there's there's certain things that are just 532 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,620 there. But all of the other organizations, these black boxes 533 00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:37,710 that collect money on behalf of artists and take care of you, 534 00:32:38,190 --> 00:32:42,810 including publishing companies. There's the worldwide publishing 535 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,820 industrial complex is very interesting. Once you put that 536 00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:51,450 out of your mind, and say, there's really only two things 537 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:55,260 we have to look at, that's the that's the agreement of the 538 00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:58,260 people who work on the podcast, I'm just gonna call it a podcast 539 00:32:58,260 --> 00:33:01,710 just to make it very simple. So X amount of people work on the 540 00:33:01,710 --> 00:33:07,200 podcast, you have splits that are developed. And in the case 541 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,650 of this kind of podcast, one or more people may get more of the 542 00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:17,490 split up front, which then has to switch after certain amount 543 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,540 has been achieved. That's called the recoupment. That could work 544 00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:24,690 perfectly for a podcast, hey, I put up a two grand for the 545 00:33:24,690 --> 00:33:26,910 studio, I get the first two grand out. 546 00:33:27,510 --> 00:33:30,090 Dave Jones: No, okay, this is an interesting, okay, that's good. 547 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,320 That's very, very 548 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,360 Adam Curry: understandable. Then the next part is value for value 549 00:33:36,390 --> 00:33:44,880 on apps, and value for value as a remote item. Now, the value 550 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:51,570 for value on apps. I had I had, I mean, a lot of a lot of 551 00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:55,800 attitude changing that I attempted to do. I said, No one, 552 00:33:55,860 --> 00:33:59,580 no one is putting anything weird into the concept of putting a 553 00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:03,090 podcast up and say, Hey, can you just send me send me some, and 554 00:34:03,090 --> 00:34:07,650 then, you know, the app typically take something. And 555 00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:12,600 that is very transparent to the user. So in my mind, that's kind 556 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,860 of soft. You know, and if there's an app out there, that 557 00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:22,950 all sudden was taking 50% I think the community itself would 558 00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:24,360 say, Hey, what are you doing? 559 00:34:24,390 --> 00:34:27,120 Unknown: I mean, that it would be recognized fast. Yeah, it 560 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,900 would be recognized 561 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:31,620 Adam Curry: very quickly. There's also a piece that people 562 00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:35,940 have to recognize that it's not all the pieces will never add up 563 00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:41,760 to 100. There's network fees, you know, some case of routing 564 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,780 goes differently, you lose the sad here or there. You know, we 565 00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:50,820 all have to just recognize and realize that it's not 100% 566 00:34:50,820 --> 00:34:56,550 accountable the way it is with fiat money systems. It's not a 567 00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:59,100 big deal. But when you're dealing with five SATs at a 568 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,740 time, it's like hey, Where did 20% go? Because I lost a 569 00:35:01,740 --> 00:35:06,270 Satoshi. So that that has to be figured out, or just has to be 570 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,550 realized. And honestly, 571 00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:13,470 Dave Jones: that's not all that different than, then things go 572 00:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,190 in the business world anyway, because you get a contract. 573 00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:19,770 Yeah, you sign a contract with somebody and you're like, Okay, 574 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,610 I'm gonna start using your product, and then the invoices 575 00:35:23,610 --> 00:35:26,970 come through, and there's a lot, there's 26 line items with all 576 00:35:26,970 --> 00:35:29,250 these different little, you know, fees and 577 00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:36,990 telecommunications, you know, fee or Obama phone fee. There's, 578 00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:39,420 there's all these things and you're like, Oh, what is all 579 00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:41,460 this, then you have to talk to your account rep and figure out 580 00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:45,270 what all this stuff is. And it's like, it's never it's never a 581 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:48,480 clean is what I'm saying. Measuring This is not just, it's 582 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,410 not just a, you know, V four v thing. And beyond 583 00:35:52,410 --> 00:35:56,340 Adam Curry: that, there's send backs, buy backs, whatever they 584 00:35:56,340 --> 00:36:00,600 call them, you know, the, the music, I use, when buying with 585 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,850 buying music, this is already kind of going out of vogue. And 586 00:36:02,850 --> 00:36:06,600 when buying music, or if your music is available somewhere and 587 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,440 someone buys you know, 100 CDs, they may send back 50 Hey, I 588 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,750 didn't buy him, you have to buy him back. There's all kinds of 589 00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:14,910 stuff like that. That's, that's the same. By the way, if you use 590 00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:19,170 Amazon, if you sell products in Amazon, there'll be people send 591 00:36:19,170 --> 00:36:22,080 stuff back, you know, so there's all kinds of shenanigans, you're 592 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,890 losing money everywhere. Yeah, now, the most important part to 593 00:36:25,890 --> 00:36:32,970 me, was reinventing Music Radio, by using the remote item tag, 594 00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:38,280 and I was very sharp, sharply focused on calling it a remote 595 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,170 item and not a song. Because the it technically is a remote item, 596 00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:48,780 it could be a clip from someone else's podcast, it can be a, an 597 00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:52,020 insert of an entire episode of someone else's podcast, that 598 00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:55,830 podcast happens to be three minute and 45 seconds long. But 599 00:36:55,830 --> 00:36:59,670 I'm inserting it now. That's where I think is very valid, to 600 00:36:59,670 --> 00:37:04,080 have an ownership license that says, hey, if you're going to 601 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,460 include this, in your podcast is my stuff. So you're making what 602 00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,040 I call a derivative work, like you're copying it, you're 603 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,510 playing a piece in your podcast here is so first of all, you 604 00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:19,320 have to respect my splits, which is how the remote item works. 605 00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:26,070 And second of all, I want a minimum amount of your overall 606 00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:31,200 split. I think that's very fair. And it's an it's an it's, it's 607 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,380 an extra tag, we an extra parameter we would need in the 608 00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:38,700 value block, or the remote, whatever the whatever the spec 609 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,940 is, like, if you want to use this value for value in your 610 00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:47,280 podcast, then you have to give me at least 50% of your split. 611 00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:48,510 And so 612 00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,210 Dave Jones: let me let me play it back to you. So I can see if 613 00:37:51,210 --> 00:37:53,490 I understand if I'm understanding this correctly. 614 00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:57,690 Some so the there would be a license this Yeah, this license 615 00:37:57,690 --> 00:38:04,650 would say, Hey, here's what here I'm making my main my, let's say 616 00:38:04,650 --> 00:38:09,270 music and making music available value for value. If you're going 617 00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:11,700 to use my music in your show, just 618 00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:14,130 Adam Curry: say just say my content, don't even say music, I 619 00:38:14,130 --> 00:38:14,970 say content, 620 00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:18,270 Dave Jones: I'm going to make my content v v, if you're going to 621 00:38:18,270 --> 00:38:26,160 use my content in the show as a remote item, then I then the 622 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,590 remote percentage needs to be at least 623 00:38:29,370 --> 00:38:31,530 Adam Curry: a minimum, a minimum, you may give me more, 624 00:38:31,830 --> 00:38:35,040 you might give me more, but I need a minimum, I would set mine 625 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,660 at 50%. And so we just played a little bit of the new media 626 00:38:39,660 --> 00:38:42,780 show, if that was actually available as an audio episode, 627 00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:45,990 which it may be, I will go back and I will put the value time 628 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:51,030 split in there for the amount of time that we played that with 629 00:38:51,150 --> 00:38:56,130 and I would I would just give 100% of the split. I think that 630 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,410 that license for me feels okay in the value for value model 631 00:39:01,410 --> 00:39:04,020 because you're not saying I need this amount of money. We're just 632 00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:07,860 saying please respect my splits first of all, so that means 633 00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:11,490 you're using the remote item tag. And here's a minimum that I 634 00:39:11,490 --> 00:39:16,050 want that you could say there's no minimum you could say I have 635 00:39:16,050 --> 00:39:20,550 to have the 90% whatever it whatever it is. And it's all 636 00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:23,640 it's all ultimately based on the honor system but you know, you 637 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,930 could technically go back and take a look at it. But I think 638 00:39:27,930 --> 00:39:30,960 that for using someone's content unless you have a different 639 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,030 license in there which would be creative commons you know, share 640 00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:38,550 like what you know there's all different licenses this would be 641 00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:43,620 a V for V license for using it as a remote item in your podcast 642 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,790 and would work for any remote item. 643 00:39:48,780 --> 00:39:51,450 Dave Jones: For first of all, respect to Swiss is great t 644 00:39:51,450 --> 00:40:01,740 shirt. Seven ball. This is really good timing because A guy 645 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,030 who's participate, there's a guy that popped up in sent an email 646 00:40:06,930 --> 00:40:10,860 the other day, and he works, he's working somehow, I wasn't 647 00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:14,640 fully clear on this, but he's working somehow with the with 648 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,180 bell, Benjamin Bell, and even cast pod develop open source 649 00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:26,310 group. And he's trying to narrow down the big list of open source 650 00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:30,930 licenses that we linked to in the get in the namespace to be 651 00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:34,560 just a basically a small subset of licenses that are applicable 652 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,630 to podcast, content, podcast delivered content. So you know, 653 00:40:39,630 --> 00:40:41,550 of course, it'd be creative commons and that kind of thing. 654 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,800 And the witch, and I told him, I was like, you know, fantastic, 655 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,820 this is great, please do this. Because, you know, the, the 656 00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:56,220 reason we, we came up with the license tag, and then we added 657 00:40:56,310 --> 00:41:00,510 the link to the possible values, the license of sizes tag can 658 00:41:00,510 --> 00:41:04,410 have, of course, can be a custom license, that's fine. But the 659 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,720 list we linked to was just this common list of open source is a 660 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,110 curated common source, open source list of licenses, right? 661 00:41:13,290 --> 00:41:17,850 But, but that's just because we're not I know, I'm not, we're 662 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:20,610 developers, not legal experts. So we don't, we're not knowing 663 00:41:20,610 --> 00:41:24,930 what this is. So if we can do if we, if we actually can boil this 664 00:41:24,930 --> 00:41:28,650 down to just a few different license types, one of which is a 665 00:41:28,770 --> 00:41:34,110 is a value for value licensed, that works really well for, for 666 00:41:34,110 --> 00:41:38,520 people who want to go into V for V. I think that is like the 667 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,200 timing can't be better. So 668 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960 Adam Curry: it's that part? It's, it's, and for me, it's 669 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:48,240 basically like we do it already in the license tag. Is that at 670 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,370 the channel level? Or is it also at the item level? 671 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,600 Dave Jones: I think that's at the channel, let's look it up, 672 00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:56,880 let's do it was popping in the namespace here, 673 00:41:57,570 --> 00:41:59,340 Adam Curry: in salt, the book of knowledge pop into the 674 00:41:59,340 --> 00:42:03,360 namespace, it would have to be at the while you're looking that 675 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,780 up, it would have to be at the item level. And then as part of 676 00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:14,070 the remote item tag, I would say we need a minimum, a field for 677 00:42:14,070 --> 00:42:18,900 minimum so that the author the owner can say it's either none 678 00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:23,070 or let's say it's by D, if it's not filled in, it's none. 679 00:42:23,070 --> 00:42:27,240 There's no no, no minimum. Optional, you can put in a 680 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:31,650 minimum split, that needs to be respected by the person 681 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:36,900 including it, and then the tools can start just respecting that. 682 00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:43,140 So if I'm in the split kit, and I grab a remote item, regardless 683 00:42:43,140 --> 00:42:48,150 of whether it's five minutes or 50 minutes, it could 684 00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:50,550 automatically fill in, here's the minimum, do you want to make 685 00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:57,570 it more? You know, so we'd need an extra an extra option under 686 00:42:57,690 --> 00:42:59,100 the remote item tag. 687 00:43:00,090 --> 00:43:06,000 Dave Jones: So that so that's different. So we can't, we can't 688 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,740 really repurpose the suggested attribute. This would need to be 689 00:43:10,740 --> 00:43:11,400 something new. 690 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,390 Unknown: Yeah. Well, you can't add something to it. No, we can. 691 00:43:16,530 --> 00:43:19,980 Adam Curry: The suggested is suggested I don't think is 692 00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:27,720 different. The suggested tag is for podcast apps, and then the 693 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:33,390 apps, which for some reason is five. Somehow it's five Apple 694 00:43:33,390 --> 00:43:37,920 code who came up with who came up with five. Now this would be 695 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,840 specifically for the remote item. No, I didn't I don't know. 696 00:43:43,050 --> 00:43:45,960 Does that mean, you will probably have to have a new tag, 697 00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:49,890 which will be like remote item minimum or whatever. 698 00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:53,280 Unknown: Does that make sense? 699 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:57,060 Adam Curry: So this is this, this? This is why there's two of 700 00:43:57,060 --> 00:44:01,170 us because I got the high level you got to help me figure out 701 00:44:01,170 --> 00:44:01,890 where we put it. 702 00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,140 Unknown: Yeah, okay. mumbling Off mic now. 703 00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:10,650 Dave Jones: I'm Dick. I'm noting noting over here. 704 00:44:10,650 --> 00:44:13,770 Adam Curry: Nobody's noticing. Yes. On your yellow legal pad. 705 00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:15,480 Yes, yeah. 706 00:44:17,340 --> 00:44:22,290 Dave Jones: Okay, yeah, the the license tag is at Channel or the 707 00:44:22,290 --> 00:44:25,230 item level. So we're good. We're good to go with that already. No 708 00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:29,670 changes necessary. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. And you can have the 709 00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:34,170 way the license tag works as you can just bet you can specify a a 710 00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:37,320 lit a lesson. I'm sorry. We 711 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,690 Adam Curry: have a point of order from the boardroom. Mike 712 00:44:39,690 --> 00:44:42,630 Newman has a point of personal preference. He says we're deep 713 00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:47,370 into the namespace talk. Why no heating? Yes. You're right. And 714 00:44:47,370 --> 00:44:52,110 now it's time for some hot names. Good point. Good point. 715 00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:55,710 Dave Jones: Apologies. Apologies. Thank you, Mike. 716 00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:57,540 Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you. Apologies to the board. Yes. 717 00:44:58,020 --> 00:45:00,450 Dave Jones: I know what Mike really wants is the The height 718 00:45:00,450 --> 00:45:05,400 and math talk No, no, no, that's off limits. He's in the box, 719 00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:06,420 he's not mad at him, 720 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,270 Adam Curry: he's already had one point of personal preference for 721 00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:09,690 this board 722 00:45:09,690 --> 00:45:13,260 Dave Jones: meeting, it's too hot. The matching gloves, too is 723 00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:21,360 too hot. So the license tag, you can specify by name. And it 724 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,680 comes out of that list, which hopefully, soon we will have a 725 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,300 narrowed down list that makes more sense. Or you can do a 726 00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:36,840 custom license and give a URL with a link to the license text. 727 00:45:37,290 --> 00:45:41,250 So this, you know, you could have somebody who takes the V 728 00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:47,580 for V. License, what a hammer is developed, can take the that 729 00:45:47,580 --> 00:45:51,360 license and say they wanted one change to it. And they can be, 730 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,370 you know, put their version of that. And yeah, 731 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:53,790 Unknown: yeah, 732 00:45:54,090 --> 00:45:56,400 Dave Jones: I think we're, I think we got tons of flexibility 733 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:57,510 here. Yes. 734 00:45:57,510 --> 00:46:01,830 Adam Curry: And now there was a call, which I'm not very big on, 735 00:46:01,830 --> 00:46:03,780 because I think that automatically puts you in a 736 00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:10,170 whole different realm. They wanted a when I say they, as a 737 00:46:10,170 --> 00:46:12,930 collective, they I don't want to put this on one person. But 738 00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:17,310 let's just say the group has been talking about a maximum fee 739 00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:21,540 taken by apps. And I don't think that's a, I don't think we 740 00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:22,830 should go down that road. 741 00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:29,130 Dave Jones: I agree. And I'll tell you why. Because the the 742 00:46:29,130 --> 00:46:35,730 apps act as a sort of trying to figure out the right term for 743 00:46:35,730 --> 00:46:41,760 this, that the apps act as a sort of unbiased layer in the 744 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,140 transactions. So you have the the listener who decides how 745 00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:50,520 much value they're going to send. And then you have the 746 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:58,410 Creator who decides how much value they decide how that gets 747 00:46:59,100 --> 00:47:03,540 allocated, or like, Okay, I would like during this 748 00:47:03,540 --> 00:47:06,450 transaction, for a minimum of this to happen here, I want 749 00:47:06,450 --> 00:47:08,940 these are, these are my splits, this is where the stuff goes. 750 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:12,090 They're out there doing allocation of whatever the value 751 00:47:12,090 --> 00:47:16,200 is that comes in. But then you have the the apps are in the 752 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,330 middle, they're just taking the transaction and sending it to 753 00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:26,400 where it was specified. They're not once you start dictating to 754 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,770 them, what this you know how much how, like actual amounts, 755 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,450 now, they sort of lose their unbiased status. And it becomes 756 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,370 hard for the listener to trust the app, that the listener hast 757 00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:44,700 in order for this for an order for value for value to work, the 758 00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:50,400 listener has to know that the the, the the party that's doing 759 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,950 the payment on their behalf or the like you when I call the 760 00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:58,020 payment processor or the payment delivery platform. They 761 00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:01,170 themselves don't have an interest either in anything. 762 00:48:01,530 --> 00:48:01,770 Right. 763 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,430 Adam Curry: And their fee is typically on top of what sent 764 00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:07,140 anyway. Right? 765 00:48:07,290 --> 00:48:10,350 Dave Jones: I think as I do, I do not think that's a good idea 766 00:48:10,350 --> 00:48:13,110 at all, because then then you have the apps that are begin 767 00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:16,650 beginning to have they're beginning to be pushed in a 768 00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:20,610 certain direction by the Creator themselves. I don't think that I 769 00:48:20,610 --> 00:48:23,220 agree. I don't think that I think that hurts trust. 770 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,280 Adam Curry: There's one other thing that would come with this 771 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:33,840 license that I'm in agreement with, it sucks, but I understand 772 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:39,210 it, it has to be revocable. So you have to be able to say, 773 00:48:39,330 --> 00:48:43,080 Okay, if the owner of this content, for whatever reason 774 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,670 revokes this license, I would actually have to strip that 775 00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:50,220 remote item out of my podcast. 776 00:48:54,090 --> 00:48:57,210 Unknown: Not a happy day. No, that sucks. 777 00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:01,860 Adam Curry: But the if a license can be revoked, and it makes no 778 00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:02,430 sense. 779 00:49:03,570 --> 00:49:05,550 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, you can't have some sense of them. 780 00:49:05,550 --> 00:49:07,620 That's, oh, it can't be a one way. Yeah, 781 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,690 Adam Curry: it has to be revocable. Now, will this 782 00:49:09,690 --> 00:49:14,670 happen? I'd say 99% of the time, no, I can see where there may be 783 00:49:14,670 --> 00:49:20,550 certain types of podcasts that could be purchased by a third 784 00:49:20,550 --> 00:49:23,790 party, and that third party would then assume the rights to 785 00:49:23,790 --> 00:49:27,090 monetize it. And then now there's all kinds of language 786 00:49:27,090 --> 00:49:30,180 like you have to give a certain amount of time you have to give 787 00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:32,820 me time codes. You have to you know, there's you can't just say 788 00:49:32,850 --> 00:49:34,710 strip it out everywhere. You can't do that. 789 00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:38,730 Dave Jones: I think I don't think that might not be that big 790 00:49:38,730 --> 00:49:40,770 of a deal. Because you could basically just go through and 791 00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:44,910 all the all the areas in your feed where the where this 792 00:49:44,910 --> 00:49:46,200 particular remote where 793 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:47,880 Adam Curry: the violation takes place. 794 00:49:48,420 --> 00:49:51,990 Dave Jones: Yeah, you just know it. You know, you just you just 795 00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:54,810 know that, that that out and there's no more. 796 00:49:55,470 --> 00:49:57,270 Adam Curry: We're not just that, but you'd have to take it out of 797 00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:59,970 the actual derivative work out of the recording. 798 00:50:01,290 --> 00:50:09,930 Dave Jones: That's, that's yeah. Yeah, I think you're I don't 799 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,300 that's probably doesn't doesn't sound that much different than 800 00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:14,580 what already happens though, honestly, I mean, if somebody 801 00:50:14,580 --> 00:50:17,070 calls you up and says, Hey, you use this and you get into a 802 00:50:17,070 --> 00:50:19,830 legal exactly argument with them, you're gonna have to take 803 00:50:19,830 --> 00:50:20,490 it out anyway. 804 00:50:20,970 --> 00:50:24,450 Adam Curry: Exactly. So it professionalized is the remote 805 00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:28,560 item. And I think, if you just view it as a remote item, and we 806 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:34,260 don't get bogged down into music, but it's a remote item, I 807 00:50:34,260 --> 00:50:39,150 think, I think that's a very, a very fair way to go. Because we 808 00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:42,840 can use that for everything. And it doesn't mean that everyone's 809 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,480 going to be getting splits on everything. And most people 810 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,330 stuff isn't interesting enough to include in another podcast, 811 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:54,960 but I'll put my zero or, you know, whatever, up to you. And 812 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,230 then if someone wants to, like Kyron, you know, he throws 20% 813 00:50:58,260 --> 00:51:03,870 If if he uses a P, whatever, I mean, it's that nothing has to 814 00:51:03,870 --> 00:51:07,650 change as my point only for people who feel that they have 815 00:51:07,650 --> 00:51:12,810 something so valuable, that they want a minimum. And I'll and 816 00:51:12,810 --> 00:51:15,630 they want a license, and it's their stuff. So, you know, I 817 00:51:15,630 --> 00:51:19,710 think they have every right, you know, that I'll stay away from 818 00:51:19,710 --> 00:51:22,680 fair use for a moment, because Fair Use is very, very 819 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,150 complicated, and no one wants to litigate that. But I know a lot 820 00:51:27,150 --> 00:51:31,140 about it. But obviously Bookstagram ball, the remote 821 00:51:31,140 --> 00:51:34,440 items are included in that is not fair use, you know, I'm 822 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,980 using someone stuff and I'm, I'm literally commercializing it, 823 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:45,750 Dave Jones: right. So, I think you're fair use, your fair use 824 00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:51,270 comes into play where you have me, technically you don't have 825 00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:59,970 to, you would not have to do a split or a remote item for a 826 00:51:59,970 --> 00:52:04,380 clip. If it would fall under fair use, you would do it 827 00:52:04,380 --> 00:52:09,180 because you're wanting to be a nice person. Exactly. So this is 828 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:14,820 like beyond music. And, and, like, I think that the thing 829 00:52:14,820 --> 00:52:19,260 with music and why it's so was so precious there is because 830 00:52:19,260 --> 00:52:22,860 it's a full work. I mean, you're playing a full work. And you're 831 00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:25,500 and it's obviously there's you know, there's there's history 832 00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:29,400 there. But you know, with the clip, it's just like, well, you 833 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,750 know, I'm gonna give you can, I guess you could, you know, you 834 00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:37,170 you wouldn't, you could go in there and say, Okay, I'm going 835 00:52:37,170 --> 00:52:40,770 to, I'm going to vie for V license all of my podcast 836 00:52:40,770 --> 00:52:43,320 episodes so that if anybody ever gets a clip, I have to get a 837 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,800 remote item. It's not really going to work that way. I mean, 838 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:53,220 because that doesn't supersede fair use. So you got you that's 839 00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:56,880 not really gonna work, but but for, for music, or something 840 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,270 like that, or an audio book or things like that. Yeah, I mean, 841 00:53:00,270 --> 00:53:05,670 like, you really almost do need that in place. And I can think 842 00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:09,510 like, you know, ask him Steve had a good, had a good point. I 843 00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:11,760 mean, you can't really revoke a license for something that's 844 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,880 already been it's already an event that happened in the past. 845 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:22,080 I mean, with no going back. Go Well, a podcast live podcast 846 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:22,350 lives 847 00:53:22,350 --> 00:53:27,420 Adam Curry: forever. You can podcast lives forever. So it's 848 00:53:27,420 --> 00:53:31,020 not like it's in the past. It's it's now every day of the week. 849 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,130 Yeah, I mean, it's okay, unfortunately, is very similar 850 00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:42,540 to tic tock and Universal Music. Yeah, yes, exactly the same 851 00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:44,490 thing. Hey, we don't have an agreement. We have a 852 00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:50,580 disagreement. There's people dancing with no music. If we're 853 00:53:50,610 --> 00:53:54,990 if we want to make the podcast formerly known as music possible 854 00:53:54,990 --> 00:53:57,930 in value for value, I think we have to relent on that. I'm not 855 00:53:57,930 --> 00:54:03,990 happy about it. Because it's just a pain in the butt. But it 856 00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:05,940 is what it is. Well, 857 00:54:05,970 --> 00:54:08,850 Dave Jones: the thing I don't know that it says much of a pain 858 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,870 will there be niggles? Yes, but I'm not sure that this it's as 859 00:54:12,870 --> 00:54:17,550 much of a pain as it may sound like because if you're going 860 00:54:17,550 --> 00:54:21,180 into V for V, your options are you make something or you make 861 00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:22,080 nothing right? Well, 862 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,510 Adam Curry: this is let's just beat let's just call a spade a 863 00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:28,920 spade. This is when someone is V for V and then gets picked up 864 00:54:29,070 --> 00:54:33,810 and basically sells their stuff. Yes, right. And so it does 865 00:54:33,810 --> 00:54:39,360 change of ownership. And there's money involved and I would be 866 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,140 very happy for people Oh, that's I'm so happy for you see on the 867 00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:45,570 next project, see you when you get dropped 868 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,870 Unknown: enough I a year from now, I actually 869 00:54:51,870 --> 00:54:56,790 Adam Curry: think that very few artists who are having success 870 00:54:56,820 --> 00:55:03,870 in V for V i I don't know if many would take the big 871 00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,080 mainstream contract if it was about music. I really don't 872 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:12,360 think so. I mean, in a way Rogan did this Rogan sold his entire 873 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,220 catalogue to Spotify. He negotiated 100 episodes he could 874 00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:17,610 keep 875 00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:22,889 Unknown: public Publix. Okay, I know that because he was very 876 00:55:22,889 --> 00:55:23,699 open about that. 877 00:55:25,050 --> 00:55:29,010 Adam Curry: And all the rest had to be gone. And so because they 878 00:55:29,010 --> 00:55:32,250 bought his entire catalogue, it was really a licensing deal. And 879 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:35,820 so all of his stuff left podcasting, except for 100 880 00:55:35,820 --> 00:55:38,610 episodes, which I think he only kept on YouTube, maybe I don't 881 00:55:38,610 --> 00:55:44,040 know what he did with them. But he kept 100. It was a included 882 00:55:44,070 --> 00:55:47,190 podcast, he didn't want any out there anymore. He want he wanted 883 00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:49,320 them gone, because he didn't like the guest or something like 884 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,910 that. So it's very, it's very simple. It will happen. But it 885 00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:55,350 won't happen very often. 886 00:55:56,820 --> 00:56:01,170 Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that, you know, if 887 00:56:01,170 --> 00:56:06,480 Marina ask, gets, you know, she, I don't know her situation. But 888 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,200 if she was, she's now the full owner of all her stuff. And she 889 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,800 sells it and gets picked up by a label and wants to pull that off 890 00:56:13,830 --> 00:56:18,480 V for V. She's, she's got the right to do that. Yeah, she's 891 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,180 got the right to do that now, without a license. I mean, she 892 00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:23,490 could she could she could do this right? And and just take it 893 00:56:23,490 --> 00:56:27,150 right off exactly. But then send you a message and say, Hey, can 894 00:56:27,150 --> 00:56:30,300 you take this out of your show? And you'd have to Yeah, this 895 00:56:30,300 --> 00:56:33,060 Adam Curry: is just a way to solidify that. And I think if we 896 00:56:33,060 --> 00:56:37,140 put the minimum, the minimum split value in into the spec 897 00:56:37,140 --> 00:56:41,430 somewhere. And and the license tag is already, you know, it can 898 00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:44,760 already we can add that it's easy, because the tag already 899 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:49,950 exists is just the new license that comes out. And I think we 900 00:56:49,950 --> 00:56:53,400 should, it should be like the V for V license or something. So 901 00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:57,630 if someone puts in a derivative of the V four v license with 902 00:56:57,630 --> 00:57:00,990 some different parameters, that has to be apparent. 903 00:57:02,340 --> 00:57:04,530 Dave Jones: But I still like it. Yeah, yeah. See? Yeah, but I 904 00:57:04,530 --> 00:57:07,560 think I think, like a GPL or whatever, exactly. 905 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,980 Adam Curry: I think I think this will kind of flesh out. I'm not 906 00:57:10,980 --> 00:57:13,560 too worried. I don't also we don't have to get all messed up 907 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,230 about it. Because this, this will work out. We I mean, we 908 00:57:16,260 --> 00:57:20,760 really, believe me, the not a single person that said, Boy, 909 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,880 this really sucks. I get no Satoshis everyone is positive. 910 00:57:24,300 --> 00:57:26,520 Everyone's positive because they haven't gotten any they've been 911 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,270 so screwed. This is like, just everything has been positive 912 00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:38,910 about this. Now, along with that. I'm very proud of Julian 913 00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:44,550 Jim Costello, who have launched phantom power music.io. They 914 00:57:44,550 --> 00:57:49,440 have, you should take a look at this website. They have launched 915 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:55,650 a company to onboard artists into value for value. 916 00:57:56,940 --> 00:57:59,790 Dave Jones: Ooh, this is pretty so nice website. Yeah. 917 00:57:59,790 --> 00:58:03,600 Adam Curry: And they're doing education. And you know, 918 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,840 they're, I think they've partnered with RSS blue.com for 919 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:12,030 hosting. And I mean, they've really, I think they've really 920 00:58:12,030 --> 00:58:15,390 done a very thought a long and they've been thinking about they 921 00:58:15,390 --> 00:58:19,500 have all the experience honestly. They know it they 922 00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:22,950 understand they understand how all this stuff works. Look. Oh, 923 00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:24,990 look, I didn't notice that they have all look at all the apps. 924 00:58:24,990 --> 00:58:29,130 They have all the apps there. Receive boost today. Grab an app 925 00:58:29,130 --> 00:58:31,890 you can zap No. Okay, well, if you have to put this app in 926 00:58:31,890 --> 00:58:35,130 there and I understand I understand the rhyming but okay. 927 00:58:36,690 --> 00:58:40,410 Oh, look, they got the music shows down there as well. So 928 00:58:40,410 --> 00:58:43,380 they're really promoting the whole thing. And it was it was 929 00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,260 kind of cute. They're like, Please don't hate us for because 930 00:58:46,260 --> 00:58:51,120 they asked $10 a month. This is please don't hate us for for 931 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,560 asking for Fiat. So you get inside off by people. It's okay. 932 00:58:56,250 --> 00:58:58,920 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's okay. big of a deal. Yeah, 933 00:58:58,980 --> 00:59:01,830 Adam Curry: I think they do is $10 a month they set you up, 934 00:59:01,830 --> 00:59:05,430 they help you they give you all the education. It's probably 935 00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:08,010 more in a group setting. I think they're gonna do like big deal 936 00:59:08,010 --> 00:59:13,980 calls and stuff. And then 5% of your SATs. 5% split. As you say 937 00:59:13,980 --> 00:59:16,560 fair, yeah. And they help you manage everything. I mean, I'm 938 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,040 happy because now I can say to artists go instead of me 939 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,750 explaining go here. Go talk to these people. They 940 00:59:24,750 --> 00:59:27,630 Dave Jones: have Marina Oscar is one of their or they do one of 941 00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:27,840 their 942 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,070 Adam Curry: orders. Do you have their art get it out? They have 943 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,200 Abby Mendler here Ainsley Costello Amber Sweeney. Jack and 944 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,430 Mr. Mr. JESSICA Well, I like these I like these. I want to 945 00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:46,110 trust it. I happen to pick the trusted for our song today. 946 00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:52,560 Dave Jones: Oh, it gets the you know what wait. Wave Lake has 947 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,890 really stepped they stepped up to I mean, they have they have 948 00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,890 they've got two new podcasts that are that they're doing now 949 00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,540 mixtape and wave or in there? They interviewed your buddy. 950 01:00:03,540 --> 01:00:03,690 Yeah, 951 01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:05,940 Adam Curry: Cody what? That was great. I was like, Oh, this is 952 01:00:05,970 --> 01:00:13,500 an I didn't know that. FM radio was FM radio. But that was 953 01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:14,070 Michael. 954 01:00:16,109 --> 01:00:18,659 Unknown: That's his band Finn radio. Oh, no, no, 955 01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:22,020 Adam Curry: not FM radio, was it? No, no, the pirate radio 956 01:00:22,020 --> 01:00:23,400 that's on pirate radio. 957 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,750 Dave Jones: Yeah, they they've done a lot. And I want to make 958 01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:30,330 sure because people in podcasting took one over, given 959 01:00:30,330 --> 01:00:33,780 them heat before and we have to, but they stepped up, they fixed 960 01:00:33,810 --> 01:00:37,380 they have really changed their feeds their auto billing. I 961 01:00:37,380 --> 01:00:40,380 think right now the auto says, Oh, he had their auto 962 01:00:40,380 --> 01:00:43,860 submitting. They're doing value time splits. They've got their 963 01:00:43,860 --> 01:00:48,390 feeds have channel level value blocks now. Like they're they've 964 01:00:48,540 --> 01:00:53,490 they've fully adapted to the for the podcasting based music. And 965 01:00:53,550 --> 01:00:56,400 I mean, like they deserve all the credit in the world for 966 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,100 chain for making. Absolutely, absolutely. 967 01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,670 Adam Curry: We needed we needed. We needed them to do that we 968 01:01:02,670 --> 01:01:06,180 needed. We needed him to do that. We really did. And I love 969 01:01:06,180 --> 01:01:09,570 it. And I'm I'm sure they still have a focus on noster 970 01:01:09,570 --> 01:01:12,870 somewhere. But when I listen to their shows, it's getting there. 971 01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,940 It really is. Yeah. 972 01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:19,170 Dave Jones: It's beautiful. I think they deserve they deserve 973 01:01:19,170 --> 01:01:22,830 some credit. They deserve the kudos. Yeah, for sure. For sure. 974 01:01:24,660 --> 01:01:28,260 Unknown: So that's happening. Yeah. 975 01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:33,330 Dave Jones: This I want to talk a little bit about what Mitch 976 01:01:33,330 --> 01:01:39,600 posted? Yes. With, you know, just burnout. Because he did 977 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,360 Adam Curry: he actually use the burnout term? Because I mean, I 978 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,050 read it as burnout. I'm like, I you and I texted I don't even 979 01:01:46,050 --> 01:01:49,650 know what to say. I mean, I feel horrible about this. I mean, 980 01:01:50,010 --> 01:01:52,740 what can I do? You know, I can send him money. But that's not 981 01:01:52,740 --> 01:01:57,180 gonna that's not a salary. You know, what do we do? What how? I 982 01:01:57,180 --> 01:01:59,760 mean, this is hard. This is hard stuff. 983 01:02:00,630 --> 01:02:04,590 Dave Jones: I think. So. Let me just see if I can pull this post 984 01:02:04,590 --> 01:02:08,370 up real quick, make sure we accurately represent what he 985 01:02:08,370 --> 01:02:13,980 said, because I think he did say that he was burned out. See, so 986 01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:17,340 I've been off the grid. So long folks have been busy with 987 01:02:17,340 --> 01:02:19,500 combination and making money. So I don't have to get back to the 988 01:02:19,500 --> 01:02:22,290 day job to be frank pa versus pretty overwhelming to keep up 989 01:02:22,290 --> 01:02:26,700 with keeps more and it gets more overwhelming with each day, I'll 990 01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:30,360 let things fall behind. I've been working on pod verse for 10 991 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,320 years now. And absolutely love. He said, I didn't even know how 992 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,620 to code when I started. And absolutely love what we've 993 01:02:37,620 --> 01:02:40,290 accomplished. But I've always had hoped we would have would 994 01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:44,700 have a thriving open source community by now. I don't know 995 01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:46,860 what course of action can convert pod verse from being 996 01:02:46,860 --> 01:02:49,860 this 10 hour a day labor of love for me into a reasonably managed 997 01:02:49,860 --> 01:02:54,000 business with adequate resources. The truth is, as pod 998 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,450 verse has grown more popular, is become more difficult to keep up 999 01:02:57,450 --> 01:02:59,610 with. We have many generous supporters, but the money we 1000 01:02:59,610 --> 01:03:02,250 make is far from being able to pay someone a full time salary. 1001 01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:06,570 And then he says they don't want to accept VC money focusing on 1002 01:03:06,570 --> 01:03:11,700 getting caught up now. So, you know, anytime he talks about 1003 01:03:11,730 --> 01:03:15,150 unless there were an increase in steady open source contributors, 1004 01:03:15,150 --> 01:03:17,670 I can't see I can keep up with the rate of progress and 1005 01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:23,730 responsiveness. People are used to for sure. Yeah. So I just 1006 01:03:23,730 --> 01:03:27,390 want to talk a little bit about that. Because, I mean, I've been 1007 01:03:27,390 --> 01:03:32,250 involved in open source projects. So that's happened. So 1008 01:03:32,250 --> 01:03:32,940 I can hear that. I'm 1009 01:03:32,940 --> 01:03:34,560 Adam Curry: sorry. I didn't mean to do that to you. 1010 01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:38,340 Dave Jones: It sounds like I thought that was you. It was 1011 01:03:38,340 --> 01:03:42,450 Adam Curry: me. It was me. W no idea why that why that worked 1012 01:03:42,450 --> 01:03:43,590 that way. Okay. Yeah. 1013 01:03:43,950 --> 01:03:46,440 Dave Jones: But I've been involved in PUC in open source 1014 01:03:46,620 --> 01:03:53,160 projects for more than a decade. And this one's going on three 1015 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:59,850 years. And I've had times when Absolutely. The I'm just gonna 1016 01:03:59,850 --> 01:04:03,480 use the term burnout. I don't think it's fair. I think it's 1017 01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,660 just a general term. I don't think it's unfair to Mitch Yeah. 1018 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:12,660 To say burnout because we all we all we all get there. And, you 1019 01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:15,180 know, Martin Martin from pot France, he felt he didn't get 1020 01:04:15,180 --> 01:04:21,570 burned out, as well. And so, you know, I would I would want to 1021 01:04:21,570 --> 01:04:29,280 say a couple of things here is managing an open source project 1022 01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:37,200 is primarily not about the the technology, tap it, it's about 1023 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:42,240 relationships. It's about managing relationships. There's 1024 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,260 this quote from Charlotte Mason. She's, like our kids go to a 1025 01:04:46,260 --> 01:04:50,460 Charlotte Mason school. She was an educator from the 1800s. But 1026 01:04:50,460 --> 01:04:53,880 she has this, this phrase that she says education is the 1027 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,080 science of relationships. I think that's what open source 1028 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,480 open source is all about the science of managing 1029 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:09,930 relationships. Right? And so you like you? I kind of I kind of 1030 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:17,790 you get bogged down my I never feel burned out. And I think 1031 01:05:17,790 --> 01:05:25,320 part of the reason is because I've learned to adapt to 1032 01:05:25,380 --> 01:05:30,240 basically like an it's, it's just it's fine mentality. It's 1033 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,020 fine, it's fine. It's like that little guy with the with the 1034 01:05:34,050 --> 01:05:36,990 with the comic with holding the coffee and everything's on fire, 1035 01:05:36,990 --> 01:05:37,620 you know, it's fine. 1036 01:05:38,550 --> 01:05:42,450 Adam Curry: Burn, everyone's burning up. All right, in 1037 01:05:42,450 --> 01:05:45,840 Dave Jones: there's a few different there's a in it all 1038 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,890 comes down to relationships. So you could put you could you 1039 01:05:49,890 --> 01:05:53,520 could look at it like this if you want to like say like some I 1040 01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:59,250 don't know, rules are sort of like essence concepts. It's 1041 01:05:59,250 --> 01:06:04,290 fine. Not to respond to people. That's sort of like, the first 1042 01:06:04,290 --> 01:06:09,480 thing in this in it when it comes to managing open source 1043 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,110 is, you know, you had to pick one like, basically pick one 1044 01:06:13,110 --> 01:06:16,170 public communication channel. These are just the things that 1045 01:06:16,170 --> 01:06:19,830 I've done. Pick one public communication channel, pick one 1046 01:06:19,830 --> 01:06:22,440 private communication channel for most people, that's email. 1047 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,510 And just stick with that. Don't get sucked into 15 different 1048 01:06:27,570 --> 01:06:32,550 communication channels with where your own telegram matrix 1049 01:06:32,550 --> 01:06:39,360 GitHub, Mastodon email, text message signal team, Slack, and 1050 01:06:39,390 --> 01:06:43,740 it will, it will drive you insane. You can't you'll never 1051 01:06:43,740 --> 01:06:48,120 rest. It's awful. This is like, this is like the Marco Arment 1052 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,700 strategy. Just ignore people. 1053 01:06:52,530 --> 01:06:55,260 Adam Curry: Pretty successful with that strategy? Right? 1054 01:06:55,260 --> 01:06:57,180 Dave Jones: Yeah. And I mean, he would be honest with you and 1055 01:06:57,180 --> 01:07:02,670 say, yeah, it, you He, He will not answer your emails 99% of 1056 01:07:02,670 --> 01:07:07,740 the time. But it's for is because if you get sucked into 1057 01:07:07,740 --> 01:07:11,190 that, and you let yourself become burdened by the 1058 01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:15,360 responsibility of responding to everybody, yeah, you will burn 1059 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,900 yourself out your your your fuse will go out fast. 1060 01:07:18,930 --> 01:07:22,800 Adam Curry: By the way, this goes even for podcasters. Sure, 1061 01:07:22,830 --> 01:07:25,470 I mean, it's the same thing. I can't respond to everybody. I 1062 01:07:25,470 --> 01:07:30,570 certainly can't, I wind up, wind up doing my email, I wind up 1063 01:07:30,570 --> 01:07:33,330 praying for a lot of people, no response, but I prayed for you. 1064 01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:36,780 It's really nothing else you can do sometimes. 1065 01:07:38,130 --> 01:07:40,860 Dave Jones: I silenced almost all of my GitHub repo 1066 01:07:40,860 --> 01:07:43,290 notifications, I don't get notifications from the namespace 1067 01:07:43,290 --> 01:07:45,870 anymore. People post things there and I don't even know. 1068 01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:52,320 And, and I go in when when I choose to engage with namespace, 1069 01:07:52,350 --> 01:07:56,490 I go and I check out what's there. Notification fatigue will 1070 01:07:56,490 --> 01:08:01,260 kill you. Yeah. It will literally stress you out. If 1071 01:08:01,260 --> 01:08:04,170 somebody posts something on a repository and it takes you like 1072 01:08:04,170 --> 01:08:08,460 a month before you even see it. Guess what? As far as what it 1073 01:08:08,460 --> 01:08:14,910 is, it's fine. Nobody died. Nobody got sick. It's fine. You 1074 01:08:14,910 --> 01:08:17,700 know, people will eventually learn your communication 1075 01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:22,080 cadence. Amen? And what to expect from communicating with 1076 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,100 you. It's like, I don't you know, Dave Winer used to be you 1077 01:08:26,100 --> 01:08:28,290 know, he's he wrote this long thing about if you're going to 1078 01:08:28,290 --> 01:08:31,050 work with me, here's what you need to know about. The way I 1079 01:08:31,050 --> 01:08:33,210 Adam Curry: work. I remember Yes. Oh, yes, I remember these 1080 01:08:33,210 --> 01:08:33,900 very well. 1081 01:08:35,099 --> 01:08:37,619 Dave Jones: It's like, No, I've got three modes. I've got um, 1082 01:08:37,619 --> 01:08:40,259 heads down working mode, I've got I'm communicating mode, and 1083 01:08:40,259 --> 01:08:44,069 I forget all the details. Yeah. But like he published his like, 1084 01:08:44,069 --> 01:08:49,049 cadence of how he, how you could expect to work with him. I don't 1085 01:08:49,049 --> 01:08:52,949 think you have to do that. I don't think you have to publish 1086 01:08:52,949 --> 01:08:56,099 that. I think people just learn that people learn that, oh, 1087 01:08:56,159 --> 01:08:58,559 after they communicate with you a few times, they learned that 1088 01:08:58,679 --> 01:09:02,279 sometimes you're just not going to respond for perhaps a month. 1089 01:09:03,089 --> 01:09:06,209 And they just know that you're there and you will eventually 1090 01:09:06,209 --> 01:09:08,429 you get back to them and they know that that everything's 1091 01:09:08,429 --> 01:09:13,019 fine. Right? And so it's it's not it's not something you have 1092 01:09:13,019 --> 01:09:16,739 to get super detailed about. But it's all you know, I guess the 1093 01:09:16,739 --> 01:09:22,559 second part is it's also fine. In this is big and open source 1094 01:09:22,559 --> 01:09:27,449 too. It's also fine if people are not nice to you. Because 1095 01:09:27,509 --> 01:09:32,459 people are gonna are going to be not nice to you. This is true 1096 01:09:32,459 --> 01:09:37,529 with all open source. People say terrible things. People get 1097 01:09:37,529 --> 01:09:43,259 selfish. It's going to happen. And you have to know upfront you 1098 01:09:43,259 --> 01:09:48,059 have to cultivate thick skin. People are gonna say mean stuff. 1099 01:09:48,090 --> 01:09:51,060 Adam Curry: I can't it's almost like being a podcaster people 1100 01:09:51,060 --> 01:09:53,400 will say the most horrible things. 1101 01:09:53,729 --> 01:09:57,509 Unknown: You don't know what you're doing the D You should 1102 01:09:57,509 --> 01:09:59,609 have said why didn't you do that? How can I 1103 01:09:59,610 --> 01:10:03,420 Adam Curry: camp Oh, my head. I can't believe you missed that. 1104 01:10:03,900 --> 01:10:08,520 And I see it with with apps like this sucks this apps no good. 1105 01:10:08,820 --> 01:10:12,060 Get you know, what is my favorite? Like, this is a basic 1106 01:10:12,060 --> 01:10:13,230 functionality. 1107 01:10:13,950 --> 01:10:20,640 Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Why didn't knew dot dot dot? You 1108 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:24,450 know that anything that starts with I can't believe.dot.or What 1109 01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,530 Why did you Why didn't you do it this way dot dot dot? Yeah, very 1110 01:10:28,530 --> 01:10:34,500 typical. People are gonna leave you one star reviews. Yep. It's 1111 01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,350 gonna happen, you know, people are gonna, they're going to, you 1112 01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:40,860 know, smear essentially smear your product. They're gonna 1113 01:10:40,860 --> 01:10:45,600 criticize almost every decision that you make, at some point. 1114 01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:49,920 They're gonna send you hate mail. We've gotten tons of hate 1115 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:55,980 mail, about everything about the show about the project. Ever 1116 01:10:55,980 --> 01:11:01,290 every time you know, every, every time you allow yourself to 1117 01:11:01,290 --> 01:11:08,790 get angry. You turn your burnout meter up another notch. Yeah. If 1118 01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:14,160 somebody's a jerk, lock the issue, or close it, if they keep 1119 01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,860 being a jerk, block them or mute them, and then go eat some ice 1120 01:11:16,860 --> 01:11:20,970 cream and have a good day. And that's, it's really all about 1121 01:11:20,970 --> 01:11:24,420 that. So this is this is fresh in my mind, because somebody 1122 01:11:24,420 --> 01:11:27,420 said something recently to me, and it gets in a GitHub issue. 1123 01:11:30,180 --> 01:11:34,380 Saying that they didn't want they did not want to listen to 1124 01:11:34,380 --> 01:11:40,140 the show, in order to keep up with the project. And that I 1125 01:11:40,140 --> 01:11:44,190 should be that I should be publishing minutes of this of 1126 01:11:44,190 --> 01:11:47,070 the board meeting each week. Oh, well, why you don't want to 1127 01:11:47,070 --> 01:11:48,450 listen to the show? Oh, 1128 01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:52,230 Adam Curry: oh, I see. Well, we have a transcript. Right. 1129 01:11:52,620 --> 01:11:56,880 Dave Jones: And, you know, my, my response to that was, stop 1130 01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:58,650 telling me what I'm supposed to do with my time. 1131 01:11:59,580 --> 01:12:01,410 Adam Curry: Yeah, reclaiming Reclaiming my time. 1132 01:12:03,210 --> 01:12:05,040 Dave Jones: I'm not playing I'm not playing this game. This is 1133 01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,280 not a year, this is no longer a feature request. This is now a 1134 01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:13,380 demand. And I reject your demands go away. Yeah. And so 1135 01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:16,980 this, this is this is how you deal with that sort of stuff. 1136 01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:25,440 And the, I guess the hardest part is the last part is is if 1137 01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:32,220 the servers go down, it's still fine. It's okay. stuff does go 1138 01:12:32,220 --> 01:12:39,540 down. It's gonna happen. And it's really It's okay. When 1139 01:12:39,540 --> 01:12:42,180 somebody tells you, the servers are down, and you feel that that 1140 01:12:42,180 --> 01:12:46,170 panic in your stomach, go go get a cup of coffee. Take a 10 1141 01:12:46,170 --> 01:12:51,000 minute walk before you ever open up an SSH terminal. Just go 1142 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:57,120 chill out. It's fine. Life will go on. Everybody's okay. Yeah, 1143 01:12:57,150 --> 01:13:00,840 everybody's servers go down. Sometimes. It's not a reflection 1144 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:04,770 on you. If people get mad about it or mean about it, and that, 1145 01:13:04,770 --> 01:13:09,450 you know, it's not it's not a big deal. It's all fine. I mean, 1146 01:13:09,480 --> 01:13:13,740 server team, Microsoft Teams was down for 10 hours the other day 1147 01:13:13,740 --> 01:13:14,520 globally. 1148 01:13:14,580 --> 01:13:18,150 Adam Curry: Oh, God. I can only imagine the calls that came in 1149 01:13:18,150 --> 01:13:20,340 that that support team. Yeah, 1150 01:13:20,670 --> 01:13:23,970 Dave Jones: people were freaking out and losing their mind. But 1151 01:13:23,970 --> 01:13:26,910 you know what, it's fine. There's today they didn't lose a 1152 01:13:26,910 --> 01:13:30,330 bet you they did not lose a single customer. In his in his 1153 01:13:30,330 --> 01:13:33,630 okay. And this is an open source project. Remember, the more 1154 01:13:33,630 --> 01:13:38,910 users you have the more demands at our own placed on your 1155 01:13:38,910 --> 01:13:41,580 system. So if you lose some customers, it's actually better 1156 01:13:41,580 --> 01:13:45,600 for you. You're in a better position than the worst. It's a 1157 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:51,270 plus. Yeah, it's a plus a bonus. Win. Okay, I got one. Okay. 1158 01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:53,460 Adam Curry: What can I say? Can I say one thing? Hold on. 1159 01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:57,210 There's also with open source projects. We just had this 1160 01:13:57,210 --> 01:14:04,800 ourselves recently. For three years, we have been told you got 1161 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,410 to have a marketing website. You got to do this. You got to do 1162 01:14:07,410 --> 01:14:10,050 that. And we're like, No, hey, Phoebe. Yeah. So you can write 1163 01:14:10,050 --> 01:14:17,160 the marketing website BB. And finally, it dawned on Daniel J 1164 01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:22,470 and I think he's teamed up with with James Cridland well Oh, 1165 01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:28,170 we'll do the marketing site but she thank you yeah, it's like so 1166 01:14:28,170 --> 01:14:31,590 weird. This is an open source project every single bit of it 1167 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,830 as like yes, yes, yes. Yes, please do I want 10 of them in 1168 01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:39,030 different languages. 1169 01:14:40,380 --> 01:14:42,900 Dave Jones: That fits perfectly with what I was about to say I 1170 01:14:42,900 --> 01:14:45,210 thought I was done but I actually have one more point and 1171 01:14:45,210 --> 01:14:48,750 this is this is this exact point. When people to ask you 1172 01:14:48,780 --> 01:14:53,400 when people ask you to do something. You asked them to do 1173 01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:57,780 it instead? Yeah. Why don't you do it? Yeah, like a her longtime 1174 01:14:57,780 --> 01:15:00,840 I heard a long time ago heard a sermon by this pastor and he was 1175 01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,770 saying, He said, Every time somebody said, when I first got 1176 01:15:04,770 --> 01:15:06,960 here to this church, people would come up and say, Hey, 1177 01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,410 Pastor, I really think we need a ministry that does so and so and 1178 01:15:10,410 --> 01:15:14,340 so and so who reaching out to these, this people group or 1179 01:15:14,340 --> 01:15:16,800 whatever, right? And he said, that sounds like a great idea. 1180 01:15:17,010 --> 01:15:20,880 Let me know when it's up and running. And he said, this funny 1181 01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,890 thing is, like, most of the time, it just never, you know, 1182 01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:25,770 they never did it. And that's, that's the thing is like when 1183 01:15:25,770 --> 01:15:28,170 somebody says, Hey, can you add this feature to your product? 1184 01:15:28,620 --> 01:15:32,100 That most of the time the answer should be? Here's the link to 1185 01:15:32,100 --> 01:15:35,820 the GitHub repo. That sounds like a great idea. Yeah. When 1186 01:15:35,820 --> 01:15:38,490 you when you get it done, send me the pull request, and I'll 1187 01:15:38,490 --> 01:15:43,110 review it and merge it. That sounds great. Exactly. And 99% 1188 01:15:43,110 --> 01:15:49,200 of the time, they won't do it. But the 1% of the time, they 1189 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:55,560 actually do it. You get somebody like an Alex gates, like an Eric 1190 01:15:55,560 --> 01:16:01,320 PP. You know, like a CSB like a Stephen crater, like a Nathan 1191 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:05,820 Gath. Right. I mean, the let you get people that step up like 1192 01:16:05,820 --> 01:16:10,020 Daniel J. Lewis, you get people who step up and do and do 1193 01:16:10,020 --> 01:16:15,480 awesome stuff. In nine dead, the other 99 people that didn't want 1194 01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:18,780 to do this stuff, but never participated. You don't have to 1195 01:16:18,780 --> 01:16:21,150 let those people bother you. Right. 1196 01:16:21,150 --> 01:16:23,580 Adam Curry: So on the heels of this, I immediately have to ask 1197 01:16:23,580 --> 01:16:30,480 everybody to straighten out their to V records right away. I 1198 01:16:30,480 --> 01:16:33,180 need you to put the right information in please. 1199 01:16:34,410 --> 01:16:39,210 Dave Jones: Oh, is this a is this a? Is this a huge problem 1200 01:16:39,210 --> 01:16:39,870 we're dealing with? 1201 01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:43,080 Adam Curry: Yeah, it is kind of a big problem. Okay, customer 1202 01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:47,370 Matic sometimes doesn't send the name of the podcast or the name 1203 01:16:47,370 --> 01:16:49,980 of the song or it only sends the name of the song. It's a remote 1204 01:16:49,980 --> 01:16:54,780 item stuff. It's remote item stuff. I would I would 1205 01:16:54,780 --> 01:16:58,350 respectfully request if if you happen to be rooting around UTL 1206 01:16:58,350 --> 01:17:04,440 V records code. Could you send along podcast name, Episode 1207 01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,820 name, if there's a remote item remote item name. That would be 1208 01:17:08,820 --> 01:17:11,970 really, really awesome. You can you can even do just do the 1209 01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:15,600 GUID. You can do the good What are you laughing about? TLB is 1210 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:21,810 not hot. Yeah. You can even do the GUID because how the pad 1211 01:17:21,810 --> 01:17:24,900 will resolve that. And if and if you have extra time just 1212 01:17:24,900 --> 01:17:28,740 happened to be rooting around. The reply is really fun. But I 1213 01:17:28,740 --> 01:17:32,550 can only reply to people using cast thematic and curio caster 1214 01:17:33,150 --> 01:17:38,280 is really fun. My listeners love it. They really love it. When I 1215 01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,410 send them when I pay. You know what happens? They'll send me a 1216 01:17:40,410 --> 01:17:43,320 boost back. It's crazy. Now I've got email where they're paying 1217 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,370 me is great. 1218 01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,580 Dave Jones: Now not every pap is jumping in with TVs are a mess. 1219 01:17:47,820 --> 01:17:50,220 Everybody that starts getting into the to Wii game, and 1220 01:17:50,220 --> 01:17:56,250 they're always like, Oh, this is a shutter down your spine. But 1221 01:17:56,250 --> 01:17:59,130 it works. It somehow works. Well. He has 1222 01:17:59,130 --> 01:18:00,840 Adam Curry: a link which I'll put in the show notes, which I 1223 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,610 guess is that? Oh, yeah. Okay. So yeah, this is a this is a 1224 01:18:05,610 --> 01:18:10,890 good Blip 10 to V record breakdown that Spurlock did this 1225 01:18:10,890 --> 01:18:13,020 is very this is very good people. This is very good. I'll 1226 01:18:13,020 --> 01:18:19,560 put that in there. So we can all take a look at it. apps to the 1227 01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,010 breakdown. That's good. I mean, it I mean, just when you have a 1228 01:18:23,010 --> 01:18:25,620 moment, just have a moment to take look at it. Really 1229 01:18:25,620 --> 01:18:27,630 appreciate that. Because from 1230 01:18:28,380 --> 01:18:31,440 Dave Jones: Yeah, I just don't want people to burn out. And, 1231 01:18:31,650 --> 01:18:36,480 and Mitch has been doing this for a long time to you know, 10 1232 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:39,900 years on pod verse. That's a long time and I don't you know, 1233 01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,870 I don't blame him. He, you know, he's, he's got other things to 1234 01:18:42,900 --> 01:18:45,810 think about in his life, but and he's, it's not like pod versus 1235 01:18:45,810 --> 01:18:48,150 shutting down there. They're just gonna slow down, they don't 1236 01:18:48,150 --> 01:18:51,900 have the bandwidth anymore to add features and stuff. Which 1237 01:18:51,900 --> 01:18:54,360 is, you know, which is fine, and I want to get him back on the 1238 01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,330 show, it'd be a good thing to talk it over with him. But it's 1239 01:18:57,330 --> 01:19:01,470 just, you know, I just, you know, it I just don't want 1240 01:19:01,470 --> 01:19:04,650 people to burn out. And if you if you pace yourself and you 1241 01:19:04,650 --> 01:19:10,200 don't let people of open source will wreck you if you let 1242 01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,750 Adam Curry: it Yes, it will suck your soul. It 1243 01:19:12,750 --> 01:19:16,320 Dave Jones: will. But you there are ways where you basically 1244 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:17,970 don't have to let it do that. 1245 01:19:18,270 --> 01:19:22,080 Adam Curry: And if I may compliment you on how 1246 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:27,360 wonderfully you have managed this orchestra of nutjobs 1247 01:19:28,260 --> 01:19:32,190 because that's what we have. We have no we have an orchestra and 1248 01:19:32,220 --> 01:19:36,570 there's people with a you know with a ukulele and the guy 1249 01:19:36,570 --> 01:19:39,870 playing spoons and someone else has a washboard and there's a 1250 01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:44,250 guy who has a huge drum kit and and you this is why you're the 1251 01:19:44,250 --> 01:19:47,760 pod sage you have a very beautiful demeanor about 1252 01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:53,100 managing that you respond in just always the right way. If it 1253 01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:57,720 were me, this would have blown up within three months. Yes, 1254 01:19:57,780 --> 01:20:00,720 although I have I have gotten better in If there's things that 1255 01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:02,640 have happened to me in the past three years that have made me 1256 01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:08,430 better, but you have you really you have been managing. You have 1257 01:20:08,430 --> 01:20:11,490 been managing this group, mainly, I'd say, the the GitHub 1258 01:20:11,490 --> 01:20:14,880 and just the how things are, are put in, I just nothing but props 1259 01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:16,380 for you, brother, nothing but props for you. 1260 01:20:16,620 --> 01:20:19,920 Dave Jones: Thanks. It's, it's if you let it, if you let it own 1261 01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:24,300 you, it will, it will, you will get out, you will burn out fast. 1262 01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:29,220 And if you if you keep it as if you, if you keep it as fun, keep 1263 01:20:29,220 --> 01:20:34,590 it as a as a thing that's that's that you do that brings you 1264 01:20:34,590 --> 01:20:38,910 enjoyment, and not as trying to make it exactly. If you see it 1265 01:20:38,910 --> 01:20:41,370 as your job and you think everything depends on that 1266 01:20:41,370 --> 01:20:45,300 project. You're not going to last it's gonna go so fast. 1267 01:20:45,750 --> 01:20:48,540 Yeah, especially when you start getting some users. That's when 1268 01:20:48,540 --> 01:20:52,170 things actually are not prepared for that, then the more users 1269 01:20:52,170 --> 01:20:54,450 you have, the more it will hurt. I've always 1270 01:20:54,450 --> 01:20:57,150 Adam Curry: said, you know, every I've had many companies 1271 01:20:57,150 --> 01:20:59,910 and always said we would have a great company if we just didn't 1272 01:20:59,910 --> 01:21:01,050 have any customers. 1273 01:21:02,430 --> 01:21:06,480 Dave Jones: So true. Everybody. I cannot tell you how many times 1274 01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:10,530 I've heard somebody say, yeah, man, you know, I bet you bet 1275 01:21:10,530 --> 01:21:13,890 you'd be great if you had so and so as a customer using the API. 1276 01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:14,940 And I'm like, no, 1277 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:20,190 Adam Curry: no, no. But that's the same with podcasting. The 1278 01:21:20,190 --> 01:21:22,710 minute you get a whole bunch of people listening, everyone has 1279 01:21:22,710 --> 01:21:27,570 an opinion. Nobody knows how easy you make it look. Now, it's 1280 01:21:27,570 --> 01:21:29,790 like, Hey, you just you just talking to a microphone for 1281 01:21:29,790 --> 01:21:32,610 three hours twice a week? What is it, just give me a break. 1282 01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:37,140 Now, it's really the same with any anything with other people. 1283 01:21:37,170 --> 01:21:41,970 It's pure people, understanding of people and how people are 1284 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,380 it's just that's what it is. 1285 01:21:43,740 --> 01:21:46,980 Dave Jones: You know, podcasts are that's it's funny. Podcasts 1286 01:21:46,980 --> 01:21:49,620 are open source. You know, Alex said something the other day 1287 01:21:49,620 --> 01:21:55,200 that seemed like fun that he was saying. I think it was a little 1288 01:21:55,200 --> 01:22:00,930 bit of a just a passing comment that he threw in. But it made me 1289 01:22:00,930 --> 01:22:04,950 think about the similarities between open source and and 1290 01:22:04,950 --> 01:22:10,560 podcasting. Because podcasts are sort of like the best ones 1291 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,500 anyway. The ones like you do, or they're they are open source 1292 01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:23,910 projects in and of themselves. That yeah, he's, it's, I think 1293 01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:27,810 he said something about the value for value. I can't 1294 01:22:27,810 --> 01:22:33,690 remember his comment. But the value I think value for value 1295 01:22:33,690 --> 01:22:43,920 maybe only works fully. When when the cut when the when the 1296 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,790 listener or the consumer, whatever you want to call them 1297 01:22:47,790 --> 01:22:51,990 depend on what is when the consumer helps build the 1298 01:22:51,990 --> 01:22:52,710 product. 1299 01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,510 Adam Curry: Yes, yes. You know, when you're involved in it's a 1300 01:22:57,510 --> 01:23:01,740 two way street. It's my listeners are called producers 1301 01:23:01,740 --> 01:23:05,190 for this very reason. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, 1302 01:23:05,220 --> 01:23:09,300 exactly. Yeah. You're involved you have you have a stake, 1303 01:23:09,330 --> 01:23:12,960 you're a stakeholder in the product. This is not like radio, 1304 01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,530 this is where I think radio really is very different. It has 1305 01:23:16,530 --> 01:23:23,190 other advantages, like locality, and you know, immediacy, but the 1306 01:23:23,220 --> 01:23:26,760 feedback loop, which is exactly how it where value for value 1307 01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,540 fits in, you have a feedback loop, you have to ask you have 1308 01:23:30,540 --> 01:23:37,080 to thank you know, you have to reply basically all of that as a 1309 01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,480 part of it, whether you're whether you're doing value for 1310 01:23:39,480 --> 01:23:43,560 value for you know, for monetary reasons or not, it always works 1311 01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,370 better if it's, if it's a round robin, it just that's how you 1312 01:23:47,370 --> 01:23:50,940 can make it work for yourself. Rogan doesn't have to do that. 1313 01:23:51,570 --> 01:23:55,530 He's a different type of show. But for every other podcast I've 1314 01:23:55,530 --> 01:24:00,000 been involved in, it's it's incredibly important. Yeah, 1315 01:24:00,030 --> 01:24:02,730 Dave Jones: this this matches up because yeah, Foundation says I 1316 01:24:02,730 --> 01:24:06,210 firmly believe the attention based economy began begin with 1317 01:24:06,210 --> 01:24:09,090 one way media where participants lost the ability to openly and 1318 01:24:09,090 --> 01:24:12,570 freely conduct discourse with relevant communities. It's like 1319 01:24:12,660 --> 01:24:16,380 the one way media thing because when your open source project 1320 01:24:16,380 --> 01:24:21,450 becomes one way, when it's all about what you can give, right? 1321 01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:24,990 It doesn't work anymore. It's not a value for it's not value 1322 01:24:24,990 --> 01:24:28,620 for value. It's not a value exchange. Now it's just I need 1323 01:24:28,620 --> 01:24:33,660 something Give it to me. Now. Yeah, exactly. But when with 1324 01:24:33,660 --> 01:24:37,290 this, the puck has to promote projects is IT project is always 1325 01:24:37,290 --> 01:24:41,550 value for value. And you have, you know, in that includes apple 1326 01:24:41,610 --> 01:24:46,110 coming in last week, they they built they built a feature and 1327 01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:49,710 then they asked for help. We put it on the GitHub, people 1328 01:24:49,710 --> 01:24:53,850 responded. It's akin, it is a give and take, yeah, you know, 1329 01:24:53,850 --> 01:24:57,510 your cause we give, they take they give we take it's 1330 01:24:57,510 --> 01:25:00,630 constantly back and forth. I just think that The overlap 1331 01:25:00,630 --> 01:25:03,060 between value for value podcasting and open source 1332 01:25:03,060 --> 01:25:07,050 projects is probably a lot bigger than we think it is. I 1333 01:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,990 agree. They just look different on the outside, you know. 1334 01:25:13,830 --> 01:25:18,300 Adam Curry: I just jotted something down about value for 1335 01:25:18,300 --> 01:25:23,370 value. I just want people know that a big part of how it works 1336 01:25:23,370 --> 01:25:28,170 for me. We're in podcasting, then. But it could also work for 1337 01:25:28,170 --> 01:25:32,460 apps I don't know is we do a newsletter before every single 1338 01:25:32,460 --> 01:25:36,450 podcast except for this one funny enough. And that 1339 01:25:36,450 --> 01:25:41,160 newsletter is an ask. It's an asked to remember to listen, 1340 01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:46,590 remember to support us. And it's responsible for 40% of the value 1341 01:25:46,590 --> 01:25:51,810 we receive. Just want people to realize that doesn't it's yes, 1342 01:25:51,810 --> 01:25:56,160 you have to ask for it in your podcast. That's typically where 1343 01:25:56,160 --> 01:26:01,290 we thank people in the podcast. But to ask is, it's not 1344 01:26:01,290 --> 01:26:05,820 necessarily just in the podcast. I just wrote that down or 1345 01:26:05,820 --> 01:26:08,970 something I want to remind everybody of and to hosting 1346 01:26:08,970 --> 01:26:12,540 companies provide email capabilities, email lists, I 1347 01:26:12,540 --> 01:26:18,990 mean, all this AI talk like with respect, it's great that your AI 1348 01:26:18,990 --> 01:26:23,460 can translate you know, your podcast into German with a 1349 01:26:23,460 --> 01:26:27,360 German voice notice you never get a German to English podcast 1350 01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:29,430 because we all know that if we heard it, we'd be like, this 1351 01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:30,120 sucks. 1352 01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,910 Dave Jones: It probably sucks just as much. Yes. Yes, 1353 01:26:35,910 --> 01:26:40,260 Adam Curry: exactly. But you know, so how about where are the 1354 01:26:40,260 --> 01:26:43,920 AI discovery tools we now have transcripts for every podcast 1355 01:26:44,340 --> 01:26:49,050 Why can't I say hey AI go find me apart? Why is it only for the 1356 01:26:49,050 --> 01:26:53,460 creation side I know this makes no sense to me input a few 1357 01:26:53,460 --> 01:26:56,430 parameters get me Get me something that'll be interest me 1358 01:26:56,430 --> 01:26:58,020 based upon the transcripts 1359 01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:03,210 Unknown: Yeah, yeah kind of stuff. Wow the point Yeah, 1360 01:27:03,270 --> 01:27:04,170 should we play song 1361 01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,440 Dave Jones: I would love to hear so yeah. Okay, so 1362 01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:12,000 Adam Curry: this is this is the trusted that we were just 1363 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,060 talking about which apparently is part of phantom power 1364 01:27:15,060 --> 01:27:22,020 music.io is called Millennium it's a snappy tune from some 1365 01:27:22,020 --> 01:27:24,450 good luck in young men tech good guys 1366 01:27:38,700 --> 01:27:47,700 Unknown: give coming around a one no one's cry just cry with 1367 01:27:56,790 --> 01:28:01,200 Jesus one day 1368 01:28:19,470 --> 01:28:21,360 right guys all right 1369 01:28:43,050 --> 01:28:46,860 never want to see you tonight 1370 01:29:15,660 --> 01:29:24,720 All right. So we're not enough 1371 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:14,760 Adam Curry: To the trusted Millennium podcasting 2.0 They 1372 01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,800 are from sam se hometown in the UK. Oh really? Yes. So they must 1373 01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:26,280 be rich. Just just just in case they aren't pleased. Rewind if 1374 01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:29,190 you didn't and boosts them boost those boys boost them make them 1375 01:30:29,190 --> 01:30:32,760 more rich. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're not rich. 1376 01:30:33,510 --> 01:30:35,610 Unknown: That's a good tune in that cool though. Yeah, 1377 01:30:35,610 --> 01:30:41,850 Adam Curry: that's kind of like, old. What is it reminding of? In 1378 01:30:41,850 --> 01:30:43,260 excess the 1379 01:30:44,670 --> 01:30:47,430 Unknown: little bit? I don't know. This is cool. I like it. 1380 01:30:47,670 --> 01:30:48,600 It's 1381 01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:53,010 Dave Jones: got the you can hear the egg shaker. Exactly. 1382 01:30:54,330 --> 01:30:59,400 Adam Curry: I looked at the nostril wallet Connect. Yeah. 1383 01:31:00,450 --> 01:31:01,290 Unknown: I don't get it. 1384 01:31:04,470 --> 01:31:06,930 Adam Curry: They put, it seems like there's just a third. Is 1385 01:31:06,930 --> 01:31:12,420 it? Is it just me or is it just another API to to like a service 1386 01:31:12,420 --> 01:31:14,850 in the middle? Am I missing something? 1387 01:31:16,050 --> 01:31:18,570 Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think I don't think you're 1388 01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:22,770 missing anything. It's like me it just connects so that you can 1389 01:31:22,770 --> 01:31:26,040 connect to your own node to 1390 01:31:28,740 --> 01:31:30,660 Unknown: Okay, yeah, 1391 01:31:31,140 --> 01:31:36,120 Dave Jones: it's it's not No, it's not even worth it. 1392 01:31:38,070 --> 01:31:41,040 Adam Curry: It's not worth it long leave Keisha and we love 1393 01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,890 our key. Send a few sand rocks. Yes. 1394 01:31:44,310 --> 01:31:49,110 Dave Jones: So lightning on the lightning front with l&d. 18 My 1395 01:31:49,110 --> 01:31:51,720 understanding is this is when they start which they're working 1396 01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:55,680 on now. This is when they start building in bolt. 12 Oh, really 1397 01:31:55,680 --> 01:32:00,720 now? Yeah, bolt. Well, they're gonna do it in stages, I believe 1398 01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,530 is my understanding. Based on on the we 1399 01:32:04,530 --> 01:32:06,690 Adam Curry: always we always thought we'd live to see the day 1400 01:32:06,690 --> 01:32:08,610 that bolt 2012 came to light. 1401 01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,350 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think taproot through them much more 1402 01:32:13,380 --> 01:32:17,850 curveball. I'm talking about lightning labs and l&d. I think 1403 01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,530 taproot through them a lot of curveballs. So when they went to 1404 01:32:22,530 --> 01:32:25,500 tapri channels, what I understand and also what threw 1405 01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:30,240 them curveballs is the fees from the mempool got so high that 1406 01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:35,610 these that the Yeah, dozen or so bugs that were causing force 1407 01:32:35,610 --> 01:32:38,070 close force closing of channels are 1408 01:32:38,340 --> 01:32:41,070 Adam Curry: making everybody more everyone was becoming poor. 1409 01:32:43,620 --> 01:32:46,290 Dave Jones: They had to stop and say, Okay, let's let's go back 1410 01:32:46,290 --> 01:32:49,500 and actually fix this. So like a lot of the stuff that's been 1411 01:32:49,500 --> 01:32:53,370 going on the last really three months on the lightning on the 1412 01:32:53,370 --> 01:33:00,510 l&d developer mailing list has been all about. That has been 1413 01:33:00,510 --> 01:33:03,660 all about trying to solve these force close issues, and a lot of 1414 01:33:03,660 --> 01:33:09,600 it has got to do with just things getting channel. Things 1415 01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,950 internal to Elling to l&d Getting out of sync. Yeah. And 1416 01:33:13,950 --> 01:33:19,260 then l&d gets into a state where it it's basically it's afraid of 1417 01:33:19,260 --> 01:33:21,810 doing something wrong. And so it just forced closes the channel, 1418 01:33:22,230 --> 01:33:25,800 right, and thinking, Okay, well, we need to get this back in 1419 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:29,520 order. And they've, they've really fixed a lot of that 1420 01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,090 stuff. To my understanding, there's still a few things that 1421 01:33:33,090 --> 01:33:37,350 can cause it to happen. But most of the egregious ones I think, 1422 01:33:37,350 --> 01:33:41,760 have been fixed. So I think in in my understanding is in 18, 1423 01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,520 we're gonna they're gonna start on Bolt 12 If we can ever get to 1424 01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:51,300 a stable Bolt 12 implementation. Honestly, life life changes to 1425 01:33:51,300 --> 01:33:54,750 be better life changes, it really will hate you because 1426 01:33:54,750 --> 01:33:57,540 then you have open invoices, and you don't have to worry. The key 1427 01:33:57,540 --> 01:33:59,910 sin was a hack from the beginning. It's a beautiful 1428 01:33:59,910 --> 01:34:01,740 hack, but it is high. Yeah, just 1429 01:34:01,740 --> 01:34:04,860 Adam Curry: open invoice it just here's one invoice reuse as 1430 01:34:04,860 --> 01:34:08,340 often as you want for whatever you want. Yeah, which seems so 1431 01:34:08,340 --> 01:34:14,280 logical. Yeah. Like, why would you restrict the amount of money 1432 01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:16,500 you can receive? please do send me money. 1433 01:34:17,670 --> 01:34:22,080 Dave Jones: Yeah, the, the invoice thing is, is the invoice 1434 01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,360 thing always it never made a whole lot of sense. Because it 1435 01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,300 just means I can't make I can't send you money into you. Like I 1436 01:34:27,300 --> 01:34:30,090 can go to the bank and deposit money in your account. Yeah, 1437 01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:32,610 yeah. They'll let me do that all day. I don't have to have your 1438 01:34:32,610 --> 01:34:33,240 permission. 1439 01:34:33,270 --> 01:34:35,730 Adam Curry: You can send a Venmo to somebody just having their 1440 01:34:35,730 --> 01:34:37,710 address. Boom, it's done. Yeah, 1441 01:34:37,710 --> 01:34:39,930 Dave Jones: and nothing else works where I have to allow you 1442 01:34:39,930 --> 01:34:41,040 to give me money for now. 1443 01:34:42,150 --> 01:34:44,910 Adam Curry: Yeah, that's one of the big confusing parts for 1444 01:34:44,910 --> 01:34:47,520 people. Quite honestly, when they're like, wait, I have to 1445 01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,950 fill up my wallet. I have to create an invoice and then I 1446 01:34:49,950 --> 01:34:52,710 have to copy that invoice and then pay this weird. 1447 01:34:53,940 --> 01:34:56,280 Dave Jones: So there's this funny this is funny story about 1448 01:34:56,310 --> 01:35:00,570 my uncle. He's passed away now. He's just he was Is this clever 1449 01:35:00,570 --> 01:35:04,770 guy? And he's like country clever, you know, like, he lives 1450 01:35:04,770 --> 01:35:10,560 up, lived up North Alabama and middle of nowhere. So he a sold 1451 01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,470 this guy, something I forgot what it was is like a car or 1452 01:35:13,470 --> 01:35:18,720 something. They got paid him, paid him for it. Maybe it's gone 1453 01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:21,390 or something sold in, he paid him for a game, he wrote a 1454 01:35:21,390 --> 01:35:25,620 check. So he goes to the gas bank to cash this check. And 1455 01:35:25,620 --> 01:35:29,700 they say the tellers like I'm sorry, he doesn't have enough 1456 01:35:29,700 --> 01:35:32,100 funds. We can't get in his account. We can't cash the 1457 01:35:32,100 --> 01:35:36,450 check. So those checks, like minimum 100 bucks or something. 1458 01:35:36,510 --> 01:35:41,910 Yeah. And he said, Well, how much does he have in his 1459 01:35:41,910 --> 01:35:44,100 account? She's like, Well, I'm sorry, I guess private? I can't 1460 01:35:44,100 --> 01:35:50,010 tell you that much. I can't tell you that information. So can I 1461 01:35:50,010 --> 01:35:56,280 put money in his account? And he was like, he was like, Well, let 1462 01:35:56,280 --> 01:35:59,370 me put $10 in there. So he put $10 in there. And she was like, 1463 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,380 she's like, No, and he's like, so he kept putting five and five 1464 01:36:04,380 --> 01:36:08,130 bucks in there until the end. They just got it all out. That's 1465 01:36:08,130 --> 01:36:14,880 Adam Curry: funny. Yeah. That's I wonder if you clever. Yeah. I 1466 01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,950 wonder if because the country clever US and other guests. 1467 01:36:16,950 --> 01:36:20,910 Another good show titled Dave Jones. I like that one. Country 1468 01:36:20,910 --> 01:36:24,060 clever. That's a good one. Brother, should we thank some 1469 01:36:24,060 --> 01:36:24,450 people. 1470 01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:26,040 Dave Jones: Oh, let's do it. Yeah, 1471 01:36:26,070 --> 01:36:29,310 Adam Curry: let me let me see we we got a couple of live booths. 1472 01:36:29,310 --> 01:36:36,510 Not much. Let me see. We got Oh, let's see. 1234 From November 1473 01:36:36,510 --> 01:36:41,160 for Victor X ray. Who says thank you for your coding. Oh, that's 1474 01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:45,090 a new one. Thank you feel you're welcome. Short Row of ducks. 1475 01:36:45,090 --> 01:36:47,670 Martin Linda's code. He's back. Haven't heard from him from a 1476 01:36:47,670 --> 01:36:51,990 while. two to two. I have a podcast called pen meets paper 1477 01:36:52,020 --> 01:36:55,080 in Swedish and English but I want to check remarkable gadget. 1478 01:36:55,380 --> 01:36:58,980 Yes. Oh, listen to this podcast now that I've already bought 1479 01:36:58,980 --> 01:37:04,050 one. Hopefully I bought the right thing. Joe Martin Hello, 1480 01:37:04,050 --> 01:37:08,280 Joe Martin. He's listening in from Rainy England finally free 1481 01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:12,420 on a Friday night. 2100 SATs Thank you, brother. No gig. No 1482 01:37:12,420 --> 01:37:17,340 gig on a Friday night. Joe Martin. You know the I think the 1483 01:37:17,370 --> 01:37:22,980 premiere the first wallet switch we we performed on this show was 1484 01:37:22,980 --> 01:37:24,360 Joe Martin show. Joe Martin 1485 01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,090 Unknown: saw high gravity. That's right. 1486 01:37:27,990 --> 01:37:30,960 Adam Curry: There's Martin Linden. koge Linda's cog again 1487 01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:35,280 1111 row of sticks. I wanted to top of my wallet but found out 1488 01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,800 that Alby is doing maintenance regarding the credit card 1489 01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:43,890 option. I'm sorry to hear that. Salty Crayon 2222. How do you 1490 01:37:43,890 --> 01:37:46,410 board room sorry for the email Adam didn't realize it was time 1491 01:37:46,410 --> 01:37:50,010 for hot namespace day go podcasting. He was emailing me 1492 01:37:50,010 --> 01:37:54,480 when I'm trying to help them out. I had I did my podcast with 1493 01:37:54,480 --> 01:37:55,170 Jimmy V. 1494 01:37:56,070 --> 01:37:59,130 Unknown: About the loss of compressions all this Yes. You 1495 01:37:59,130 --> 01:38:01,110 Adam Curry: know, it turned out really good. It was it was you 1496 01:38:01,110 --> 01:38:05,490 know, we didn't really resolve much. But it was it was a fun 1497 01:38:05,490 --> 01:38:09,180 conversation. We both had our product this guy is a real force 1498 01:38:09,180 --> 01:38:12,540 to be reckoned with. And he really is very excited about 1499 01:38:12,540 --> 01:38:15,150 value for value and he wants to onboard a whole bunch of his by 1500 01:38:15,150 --> 01:38:18,870 his onboarding a whole bunch of his buddies and it was actually 1501 01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:21,750 turned out to be a really nice conversation. We got a lot of 1502 01:38:21,750 --> 01:38:22,050 fun 1503 01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:24,840 Dave Jones: did it go like this? You're wrecking my music and 1504 01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:27,570 you're like no I'm not Yeah, that would be 1505 01:38:27,570 --> 01:38:33,930 Adam Curry: the short version. Okay. I think he was surprised 1506 01:38:33,930 --> 01:38:36,360 that I showed up and he was like I can't believe so what do you 1507 01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:41,250 mean that we had an agreement this is a time here I am via so 1508 01:38:41,250 --> 01:38:47,190 anyway he's a good guy he's he's gonna be very important in in 1509 01:38:47,190 --> 01:38:53,280 the in the value verse and I have been trying to trying to 1510 01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:58,050 work on make it the problem is his songs sound different than 1511 01:38:58,050 --> 01:39:01,890 someone else's songs you know his volume mastering a different 1512 01:39:01,890 --> 01:39:05,250 someone else. It's all very different. So there's somewhere 1513 01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,970 you have to have a kind of a middle of so that it all sounds 1514 01:39:08,970 --> 01:39:12,720 good enough. That's just that's just the way it is. So I think 1515 01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:13,830 we had a good understanding. 1516 01:39:14,220 --> 01:39:17,340 Unknown: So his last name is v. So yes, V. 1517 01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:22,800 Adam Curry: What more do you need 45,678 from Dred Scott pre 1518 01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:28,260 show boost boost he says boost Thank you. Thank you and let me 1519 01:39:28,260 --> 01:39:34,620 see. Yeah, so this is see this is an example this is fountain 1520 01:39:37,020 --> 01:39:41,490 Oh, no, I'm sorry. It looks like I was put into a Jimmy V put me 1521 01:39:41,490 --> 01:39:43,920 in his value block. I'll put us in the value block. There you 1522 01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:47,130 go. Oh, that was from the interview. Oh, cool. I'll read 1523 01:39:47,130 --> 01:39:50,970 this then. 1000 SATs from salty crayon to outside in with Jimmy 1524 01:39:50,970 --> 01:39:54,120 V episode to appreciate the feedback. Adam and Jimmy are 1525 01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:57,840 still tweaking this this consulta crayon. His levels, 1526 01:39:58,710 --> 01:40:01,170 shot to crayons, great heat. plays everything uncompressed 1527 01:40:01,170 --> 01:40:03,150 yeah that's not the kind of show I want to make I have a little 1528 01:40:03,150 --> 01:40:08,370 more high energy and so he asked for some feedback so I'm helping 1529 01:40:08,370 --> 01:40:11,670 him with that Cameron also 3333 Thanks Adam for being on the 1530 01:40:11,670 --> 01:40:15,300 show extra sets for mentioning he likes I love all the Canadian 1531 01:40:15,300 --> 01:40:18,480 rockers I'm telling you the all these guys are coming in the 1532 01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:20,010 coming into the remember helix 1533 01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,660 Dave Jones: helix No Give me they were like 1534 01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:30,510 Adam Curry: like helix was heavy man helix I think I played him 1535 01:40:30,510 --> 01:40:36,270 on on headbangers ball may say why is why is this? Is this what 1536 01:40:36,270 --> 01:40:41,280 is going on here to tube? We're both going Yeah, I can't get to 1537 01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:42,540 you. Oh I see what's going on. 1538 01:40:43,470 --> 01:40:45,270 Unknown: You find us there 1539 01:40:46,170 --> 01:40:48,480 let me see you too. Oh 1540 01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:49,080 Dave Jones: Hair Metal 1541 01:40:49,110 --> 01:40:51,210 Unknown: yeah massive massive Hair Metal. 1542 01:40:51,900 --> 01:40:54,630 Dave Jones: Yeah, rock you those that 1543 01:40:54,630 --> 01:40:57,060 Adam Curry: might have had minor sounds like the one that I would 1544 01:40:57,060 --> 01:41:00,990 have played. Let me see What song did you play on headbangers 1545 01:41:00,990 --> 01:41:06,990 ball? That was probably RockYou Yes indeed. Here it is. What is 1546 01:41:06,990 --> 01:41:10,890 this heavy metal love? What was that? I see how old is this? 1547 01:41:12,450 --> 01:41:16,140 BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP that bad bad guy bad guy bad. I 1548 01:41:16,140 --> 01:41:17,550 think that from Scandinavia to 1549 01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:24,540 Unknown: Yeah baby 93 Nice farm finance 1550 01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,790 Adam Curry: and I heard one more boost come in. We'll just check 1551 01:41:29,790 --> 01:41:35,580 that real quick. Hard Hat says like boosting Why 12,345 Thank 1552 01:41:35,580 --> 01:41:39,510 you hard fat. DAVE What you got on the on the papers in the 1553 01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:40,590 booster grams. 1554 01:41:41,010 --> 01:41:44,340 Dave Jones: Oh, I got a nice Pay Pal from the boys and girls Ed 1555 01:41:44,340 --> 01:41:49,710 blueberry down. Hello Bluebird. And they sent us $300 Oh, let 1556 01:41:49,710 --> 01:41:55,380 Unknown: me get shot Carlo blades on am Paula key brothers. 1557 01:41:55,470 --> 01:41:56,370 Adam Curry: Very nice. Let's 1558 01:41:56,370 --> 01:41:58,890 Dave Jones: go in their messages go podcasting from the blueberry 1559 01:41:58,890 --> 01:41:59,730 podcasting team. 1560 01:41:59,730 --> 01:42:05,970 Adam Curry: Go buy gasoline. Just got 33,333 from Darren Oh, 1561 01:42:05,970 --> 01:42:08,790 he says can never use too much compression to get the voice 1562 01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:13,200 scope podcasting. Darren knows it's there. Yes, it. 1563 01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:17,010 Dave Jones: That would be a comment from him. Yes. Thank 1564 01:42:17,010 --> 01:42:21,510 you, blueberry. Appreciate that. Thank you so much. Let's see we 1565 01:42:21,510 --> 01:42:26,850 got Oh, we got $55 from Jorge Hernandez. Oh, it's thanks for 1566 01:42:26,850 --> 01:42:30,540 creating the opportunity to enhance our show. I sent a 1567 01:42:30,540 --> 01:42:34,080 private note via email. Not sure if they're being filtered out. 1568 01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:35,520 Nope. We got it. I got your note. 1569 01:42:35,550 --> 01:42:37,980 Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you very much. Very nice note, Jorge and 1570 01:42:37,980 --> 01:42:40,260 Savannah. I think that is from both of them. 1571 01:42:41,010 --> 01:42:45,930 Dave Jones: Yeah, they're the plug to pleb I think is the Oh, 1572 01:42:45,930 --> 01:42:49,650 Unknown: okay. But we appreciate. We appreciate that. 1573 01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,980 Dave Jones: Thank you, Jorge. Guess Mr. Graham's see. We got 1574 01:42:53,130 --> 01:43:00,420 see salty crayon. Sin is 2222. This is how the boardroom from 1575 01:43:00,420 --> 01:43:03,180 the northeast corner of Texas Hill Country. The Fountain split 1576 01:43:03,210 --> 01:43:06,210 percentages are out of whack. I don't think we 1577 01:43:06,210 --> 01:43:08,520 Adam Curry: read that one on the last show. I think on the read 1578 01:43:08,550 --> 01:43:10,590 on election really? Yeah, I think so. Think that came in 1579 01:43:10,590 --> 01:43:11,160 like oh, did 1580 01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,010 Dave Jones: that come in after? Yeah. Yeah. Let me see if I can 1581 01:43:14,010 --> 01:43:19,890 get to the right. Point. Do we read the I think we read the big 1582 01:43:19,890 --> 01:43:24,330 boost for the big Liberty boost from blueberry. Yeah, we had. We 1583 01:43:24,330 --> 01:43:28,530 did this was last weekend night boardroom. It was a weekend we 1584 01:43:28,530 --> 01:43:28,680 did 1585 01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:31,320 Adam Curry: Saturday. Yeah. Yeah, we did Saturday. So yeah. 1586 01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:35,910 I'm sorry. Yeah. I should have reminded you. It wasn't a 1587 01:43:35,910 --> 01:43:39,540 boardroom app was boardroom not after dark was boardroom. On the 1588 01:43:39,540 --> 01:43:40,830 weekend. In 1589 01:43:40,830 --> 01:43:43,470 Unknown: winboard. boardroom in jeans. Yep. casual 1590 01:43:43,470 --> 01:43:47,070 clothing. Yes, that's right. casual, casual 1591 01:43:47,070 --> 01:43:48,030 Dave Jones: Saturdays. Right? 1592 01:43:48,060 --> 01:43:48,660 Adam Curry: That's right. 1593 01:43:49,740 --> 01:43:52,380 Dave Jones: Okay, here we go. January 28. This is this this? 1594 01:43:52,410 --> 01:43:58,050 This is what is an aggregator app. And where the this is from 1595 01:43:58,050 --> 01:44:03,210 source D over pods is Archie 1701 SATs. He said what's that? 1596 01:44:03,210 --> 01:44:07,830 What is it he's talking about? He's talking about Rob's from 1597 01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:11,550 Lipsense comments. What is an aggregator app? And where? And 1598 01:44:11,550 --> 01:44:14,070 where are the stats taken after Apple cut the automatic 1599 01:44:14,070 --> 01:44:18,030 downloads? The questions don't know the answer to either one of 1600 01:44:18,030 --> 01:44:22,170 those sources. They also again with a 1701 Star Trek boost. He 1601 01:44:22,170 --> 01:44:24,600 says I thought Google Chrome was the default on Android and 1602 01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:29,220 Android had a large market share of computing. That's true. But 1603 01:44:29,220 --> 01:44:34,620 go look at the just go look at the charts. Archie. Chrome 1604 01:44:34,620 --> 01:44:38,580 dominates. I mean, it's not just Android. It's desktop. It's it's 1605 01:44:38,670 --> 01:44:42,360 I mean, like the numbers are not even funny. Just just brave 1606 01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:44,520 Adam Curry: sharp is cross a chrome derivative or does it 1607 01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:45,510 show up as brave? 1608 01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,470 Dave Jones: I think it shows up as brave because they Yeah, 1609 01:44:49,500 --> 01:44:51,570 yeah, it's not it's not detecting the engine. Nothing is 1610 01:44:51,570 --> 01:44:53,280 detecting the actual browser. Yeah, 1611 01:44:53,340 --> 01:44:55,920 Adam Curry: I like brave Brave is my browser man. I like it. 1612 01:44:56,970 --> 01:44:59,460 Dave Jones: And he says, What about Chrome OS? Yeah, I mean, 1613 01:44:59,550 --> 01:45:02,220 it's saying Same deal I just don't if you go look at the 1614 01:45:02,220 --> 01:45:07,110 actual numbers it's not it's not just those pre installs it's 1615 01:45:07,470 --> 01:45:12,930 it's legit download market share memorias podcast Kyron 1234 1616 01:45:12,930 --> 01:45:14,760 through fountain he says appreciate your focus on the 1617 01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:20,010 individual Adam 1% of the total now plus 40% downloads doesn't 1618 01:45:20,010 --> 01:45:23,610 matter on one single bid to me. appreciate all your hard work. 1619 01:45:23,610 --> 01:45:26,340 Alex in a tube is where I have been directing people who want 1620 01:45:26,340 --> 01:45:29,220 to start a video podcast and appreciate you Dave. Thanks. 1621 01:45:30,390 --> 01:45:31,230 Thanks, Gary. Yeah, 1622 01:45:31,260 --> 01:45:33,660 Adam Curry: I mean that's I'll just keep hammering that until 1623 01:45:33,660 --> 01:45:36,780 the cows come home that it's not about it's not about the 1624 01:45:36,780 --> 01:45:39,900 aggregate didn't no longer necessary to be number one or 1625 01:45:39,900 --> 01:45:44,070 top of the list or have the most downloads you just need people 1626 01:45:44,070 --> 01:45:46,980 to support you that's that's really that's the new world that 1627 01:45:46,980 --> 01:45:50,130 we live in. That's exactly what the value verse musicians are 1628 01:45:50,130 --> 01:45:53,160 finding out. I don't need to be number one I don't need to be 1629 01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:56,940 featured by Spotify. I just need my my people to show up and 1630 01:45:56,940 --> 01:45:58,020 support me That's it. 1631 01:46:00,090 --> 01:46:03,810 Dave Jones: Sir Brian of London 21 948 through cast ematic he 1632 01:46:03,810 --> 01:46:07,830 says I had to open pod verse search for pod paying than wind 1633 01:46:07,830 --> 01:46:11,040 back to 34 minutes to boost this mentioned in cast thematic go 1634 01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:14,430 apple waiting to hear apples. See waiting to hear apples Apple 1635 01:46:14,430 --> 01:46:20,460 pay via PayPal come in. Sure. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you. 1636 01:46:21,270 --> 01:46:26,640 Oh, another follow up 1948 Boost sir Brown of London. He says Sir 1637 01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:29,280 Alec saved my butt with professional level Python for 1638 01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:34,560 hive pod thing writer. Alex Alex save is saving people's butts is 1639 01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,640 basically his job title. Yes, no kidding during the day job. 1640 01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,510 Adam Curry: Oh, you know what? I probably good old Alex. He's 1641 01:46:42,510 --> 01:46:46,110 probably still in the split for the live show. Let me say he 1642 01:46:46,110 --> 01:46:47,550 must be he must be loving that. 1643 01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:52,440 Dave Jones: He's watching that watching this as hey, 1644 01:46:52,440 --> 01:46:54,030 Adam Curry: I'm doing great here today. This is 1645 01:46:58,260 --> 01:47:03,720 Dave Jones: Rene Nagy I know it's hot butcher this guy. 1646 01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:05,730 Adam Curry: I love how you say that everyone loves how you say 1647 01:47:05,730 --> 01:47:07,590 that? Pod verse 1648 01:47:09,630 --> 01:47:15,420 Dave Jones: says compression boost. Nice. Thank you, Renee. 1649 01:47:16,410 --> 01:47:20,160 Bear, snare Sinha, satchel Richards. The podcast guru says 1650 01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:22,530 you guys are doing the Lord's work. Thank you 1651 01:47:23,010 --> 01:47:24,480 Unknown: for trying. Yes, 1652 01:47:24,990 --> 01:47:29,640 Dave Jones: that's a call a person. Dude, person sent a 4096 1653 01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,070 That's a 4k kill a boost through breeze killer boost. Dave in 1654 01:47:35,070 --> 01:47:37,710 activity pub, the identity is controlled by the server owner 1655 01:47:37,710 --> 01:47:41,490 in nostre. The identity is controlled by the client. Okay, 1656 01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:46,680 he says noster doesn't rely on any one relay to maintain its 1657 01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:50,520 decentralization, I can migrate to any relay with my identity 1658 01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:51,090 intact. 1659 01:47:52,140 --> 01:47:58,290 Adam Curry: Okay, did you see any of the the session the 1660 01:47:58,290 --> 01:48:03,600 session? The Congress says shops with with the social media 1661 01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:10,860 companies and did not Oh my god. It was I actually felt bad for 1662 01:48:10,860 --> 01:48:13,680 people like Zuckerberg, you know, they had the whole room 1663 01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:17,580 stacked with people whose children had committed suicide, 1664 01:48:17,850 --> 01:48:22,710 or bought a meal online that had fentanyl and died from it that 1665 01:48:22,710 --> 01:48:26,670 had been sexually abused. And literally like you have blood on 1666 01:48:26,670 --> 01:48:30,120 your hands, turn around apologize to these people. And 1667 01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:31,980 you know, they were all stacked, they had pictures and they're 1668 01:48:31,980 --> 01:48:35,460 holding it up pictures of the dead children. It was the most 1669 01:48:35,460 --> 01:48:40,800 disgusting display have ever seen. Meanwhile, by the way, we 1670 01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:44,700 just funding all kinds of actual killing in sandy areas of the 1671 01:48:44,700 --> 01:48:49,620 world. But okay, let's let's focus on Facebook and Instagram. 1672 01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,750 But as I'm watching that I'm confused. It was all about 1673 01:48:54,750 --> 01:48:58,710 section 230. That's basically what it was, of course, and I'm 1674 01:48:58,710 --> 01:49:02,580 concluding there's only two ways this can finally wind up now it 1675 01:49:02,580 --> 01:49:05,100 is an election year. So they're doing this to pressure them. 1676 01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,640 Everyone wants a backdoor everyone wants an influence, 1677 01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:14,490 hey, do keep my account or whatever heat my post. I can 1678 01:49:14,490 --> 01:49:18,180 tell you the end goal is or the end result will be if it's not 1679 01:49:18,180 --> 01:49:22,110 now it'll be in five years or 10 years, platforms are going to go 1680 01:49:22,110 --> 01:49:27,780 away. It won't be worth it anymore. Because either there'll 1681 01:49:27,780 --> 01:49:33,390 be so restrictive that I mean because they basically want 1682 01:49:33,630 --> 01:49:35,910 these people you know these platforms to be liable the 1683 01:49:35,910 --> 01:49:38,820 saying it's your fault That's your fault is your fault was not 1684 01:49:38,820 --> 01:49:42,300 because it's under Section 230 I'm protected. I think that's 1685 01:49:42,300 --> 01:49:46,560 going to go away eventually. And I gotta be honest with you, I 1686 01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,820 wouldn't cry for a second. I want to go back to RSS feeds. 1687 01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:55,440 You know, that's what it's go back to RSS feeds, your is your 1688 01:49:55,440 --> 01:49:59,970 feed, you're liable for your feed. You know the index can 1689 01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,580 still have an index of feeds, you know, we're not hosting 1690 01:50:02,580 --> 01:50:08,220 content. Why wouldn't we need an index of feeds for blogs? This, 1691 01:50:08,250 --> 01:50:11,670 it's a mess. The only other way you can do it is everybody has 1692 01:50:11,670 --> 01:50:15,720 to have a government ID that is known that is approved. It's 1693 01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:19,410 digital. There's verification. And that's not an American thing 1694 01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,660 yet. But I just see the writing on the wall, you can put it down 1695 01:50:24,660 --> 01:50:29,790 now. You can write it down, this platform stuff is going to go 1696 01:50:29,790 --> 01:50:33,210 away. It's killing it is. I mean, it's not it's not killing 1697 01:50:33,210 --> 01:50:34,890 people, but it's not healthy. 1698 01:50:36,270 --> 01:50:37,410 Unknown: It's just not healthy. I 1699 01:50:38,100 --> 01:50:40,770 Dave Jones: totally agree. And the world will be a better place 1700 01:50:40,770 --> 01:50:41,130 for it. 1701 01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:43,320 Adam Curry: I think so I think so too. And I you know, it's 1702 01:50:43,320 --> 01:50:47,550 like, you know, and it may be even, I think even Apple will 1703 01:50:47,550 --> 01:50:50,820 start, you know, Spotify, they'll start to have second 1704 01:50:50,820 --> 01:50:53,400 thoughts. It's like, Oh, I'm getting blamed for this. I'm 1705 01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:55,650 getting blamed for that. Hey, 1706 01:50:55,650 --> 01:50:57,720 Dave Jones: I've said it before the internet was a mistake. 1707 01:51:00,450 --> 01:51:05,880 Unknown: It was Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, probably. It 1708 01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,840 Dave Jones: was. We've been watching we've been as a family 1709 01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:13,470 at night. We've been watching musicals. 1710 01:51:14,190 --> 01:51:16,110 Adam Curry: Oh, we've been watching Little House on the 1711 01:51:16,110 --> 01:51:21,240 Prairie man. Okay. Have you been watching it? I'm an honorary 1712 01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:25,860 member of the Little House on the Prairie community. Now 1713 01:51:25,890 --> 01:51:27,420 somehow I got into that. 1714 01:51:28,230 --> 01:51:32,280 Dave Jones: In one day. I'll go ahead. One day I'll tell you 1715 01:51:32,280 --> 01:51:36,210 about. There's an epic, there's a single episode of Little House 1716 01:51:36,210 --> 01:51:42,000 on the Prairie. That taught me what being a man really is more 1717 01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:45,510 than any other thing. Anybody in my life was anything else. It 1718 01:51:45,510 --> 01:51:50,340 was the bay. It was like, the greatest example of what true 1719 01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:54,150 manhood looks like being a grown up, man. Wow. 1720 01:51:54,420 --> 01:51:59,400 Adam Curry: Well, I just want to say that the lt h o p community 1721 01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:00,840 is on the edge of its seat. 1722 01:52:04,260 --> 01:52:07,830 Unknown: Oh, LH T. O. P. I got it wrong. LHC. Okay. 1723 01:52:08,730 --> 01:52:12,000 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, we'll talk we'll talk. All right. I'm 1724 01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:13,740 Adam Curry: gonna remember because I want to know, I want 1725 01:52:13,740 --> 01:52:17,160 to know what that good. That was great. It was all propaganda, by 1726 01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:19,980 the way the entire show was, I think was Norman Lear 1727 01:52:19,980 --> 01:52:23,760 propaganda. But that's okay. If it did that for you, I'm happy. 1728 01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:30,810 Dave Jones: No, I mean, noster. Yeah. And understand about the 1729 01:52:30,840 --> 01:52:35,190 about the identity, about the identity thing, that the the 1730 01:52:35,190 --> 01:52:38,010 problem the, there's some there's problems with that 1731 01:52:38,010 --> 01:52:42,900 identity, though. And there's problem the so if you're, if 1732 01:52:43,710 --> 01:52:49,920 there's no secondary keys, so you can't revoke a key, you just 1733 01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,050 have to create a whole new identity. Hmm. 1734 01:52:52,770 --> 01:52:55,350 Adam Curry: Wow, I didn't even thought about that. Because, you 1735 01:52:55,350 --> 01:52:58,710 know, I do a lot of encrypted email and I can revoke a key and 1736 01:52:58,710 --> 01:52:59,940 have a new one set up. 1737 01:53:00,630 --> 01:53:05,970 Dave Jones: Right. So there's no key hierarchy. The the issue 1738 01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,420 yes, you're you're moving, you're moving you're at you can 1739 01:53:09,420 --> 01:53:12,000 move your identity from one relight to another. But in 1740 01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:18,360 practice, there's only there's your your relays are limited to 1741 01:53:18,390 --> 01:53:22,290 what you're connected to through your app. And that's primarily 1742 01:53:23,580 --> 01:53:28,710 let me just say when when Domus goes away, which is looking like 1743 01:53:28,710 --> 01:53:31,230 it will because of all the funding stuff that he's talking 1744 01:53:31,230 --> 01:53:35,790 about the whole all of nostre collapses. That's just that's 1745 01:53:35,790 --> 01:53:39,660 just what's gonna happen. These these are highly centralized 1746 01:53:39,660 --> 01:53:44,640 relays. And yes, you you, technically on paper, you can 1747 01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,560 move from one to another, but that's not the way it's working 1748 01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:51,000 out in practice. Anyway, that's, I don't want to spend too much 1749 01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:53,220 time on that, but not understand what to do. 1750 01:53:53,340 --> 01:53:55,020 Adam Curry: I do have an important question that just 1751 01:53:55,020 --> 01:54:01,800 came in from blueberry 55 555 What kind of musical is Dave? 1752 01:54:03,240 --> 01:54:06,930 Dave Jones: Oh, oh, I forgot us. Yeah, we're watching musicals. 1753 01:54:06,930 --> 01:54:14,790 And I can confidently say this, with like, with full authority 1754 01:54:14,820 --> 01:54:21,570 that I've granted to myself. The greatest musical of all time. Is 1755 01:54:21,570 --> 01:54:26,370 Hello, Dolly. With Barbra Streisand. Wow. There is no 1756 01:54:26,370 --> 01:54:27,240 second place. 1757 01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:29,550 Adam Curry: Do what do you think about Jesus Christ Superstar? 1758 01:54:30,300 --> 01:54:33,120 Dave Jones: haven't seen it yet. It's on the list. My wife made a 1759 01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:38,310 list of 104 musicals. And we're gonna we're watching and 1760 01:54:38,310 --> 01:54:40,080 Adam Curry: she stopped teaching and she no longer in the 1761 01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:45,390 teaching profession. Where do you find this time? 1762 01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,910 Dave Jones: We, we've. We've made it through a bar so far. 1763 01:54:51,390 --> 01:54:56,220 Last Last night we finished An American in Paris. Gene Kelly. 1764 01:54:56,460 --> 01:54:56,730 This 1765 01:54:56,730 --> 01:54:59,700 Adam Curry: is this is a secret passion of mine. I have seen 1766 01:54:59,700 --> 01:55:01,260 many musicals on Broadway. 1767 01:55:02,310 --> 01:55:05,220 Dave Jones: I love them. I'd never seen very many musicals. 1768 01:55:05,250 --> 01:55:07,920 And then like she started watching them and made this 1769 01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:11,460 list. And now I'm hooked. It's a fact that I think that what 1770 01:55:11,460 --> 01:55:14,910 reminded me of this lesson the Internet is a mistake. Like, you 1771 01:55:14,910 --> 01:55:18,570 look. And you can, you don't even have to go back to these 1772 01:55:18,570 --> 01:55:22,470 musicals from the 50s and 60s, you can go back to even old TV 1773 01:55:22,470 --> 01:55:27,630 shows like The X Files from the 90s. And what you notice is like 1774 01:55:27,660 --> 01:55:30,780 when you're when you're in somebody's office, their desk 1775 01:55:30,780 --> 01:55:33,690 does not have a computer on it. Yeah, 1776 01:55:33,690 --> 01:55:35,430 Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And 1777 01:55:35,430 --> 01:55:36,750 Dave Jones: it's so satisfying. 1778 01:55:36,780 --> 01:55:38,610 Adam Curry: I was watching last night, we were watching the 1779 01:55:38,610 --> 01:55:43,950 documentary of We Are the World USA for Africa, who have it as 1780 01:55:43,950 --> 01:55:48,690 good as 1985. And Lionel Richie is kind of doing most of the 1781 01:55:48,690 --> 01:55:51,810 narration as a lot of stuff. I didn't know. But what was 1782 01:55:51,810 --> 01:55:55,320 interesting is they had to get all these artists into the nm 1783 01:55:55,320 --> 01:55:59,730 studio all at the same time. And there were no cell phones. You 1784 01:55:59,730 --> 01:56:03,450 know, there was no email that you had to communicate through 1785 01:56:03,450 --> 01:56:06,420 managers. They were sending cassette tapes with the demo out 1786 01:56:06,420 --> 01:56:11,820 through FedEx. And then it worked. Well, a lot of them were 1787 01:56:11,820 --> 01:56:15,870 at the American Music Awards. So they chose that night to after 1788 01:56:15,870 --> 01:56:18,180 everyone had their awards. And they all took them to the 1789 01:56:18,180 --> 01:56:21,180 studio. But it was the same thing. Like I mean, I think 1790 01:56:21,180 --> 01:56:24,270 those things Smokey Robinson had one of those, you know, the big 1791 01:56:24,510 --> 01:56:28,380 VHS cassette sized cell phones, but otherwise no one had a cell 1792 01:56:28,380 --> 01:56:31,860 phone no one had email no one had even just to get the demo. 1793 01:56:32,040 --> 01:56:35,310 Now. It's like hey, I'll shoot you an mp3. Like no, no, here. 1794 01:56:35,310 --> 01:56:39,900 They made cassettes. This and they FedEx the cassettes. It was 1795 01:56:39,930 --> 01:56:40,920 it was beautiful. This, 1796 01:56:41,550 --> 01:56:43,230 Unknown: Robinson Yeah, it was. 1797 01:56:45,180 --> 01:56:47,670 It was so so simple. Back then. 1798 01:56:49,230 --> 01:56:51,420 Adam Curry: You will enjoy a Book of Mormon. 1799 01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,340 Unknown: Book of Mormon. Okay. Fantastic. Fantastic musical. 1800 01:56:57,210 --> 01:56:58,500 Okay, write 1801 01:56:58,500 --> 01:57:00,390 Dave Jones: that down and make sure that's on the list. The 1802 01:57:00,990 --> 01:57:05,160 same book of mormon so we watched cats the other night 1803 01:57:05,220 --> 01:57:06,210 never seen I've never 1804 01:57:06,210 --> 01:57:08,460 Adam Curry: seen it was it good people rave about horrible. 1805 01:57:08,460 --> 01:57:10,470 Dave Jones: That is the worst piece of work that's Hall of 1806 01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:12,720 garbage I've ever seen. This is why 1807 01:57:12,930 --> 01:57:15,180 Adam Curry: I've never been compelled to go see it like 1808 01:57:15,180 --> 01:57:16,740 that. I don't think I want to go see cats. 1809 01:57:17,130 --> 01:57:21,150 Dave Jones: Oh my gosh is awful. It's evidently the we didn't 1810 01:57:21,150 --> 01:57:24,150 make it through. We made it through about 30 minutes and we 1811 01:57:24,150 --> 01:57:27,840 were all three of us. Me and my wife and daughter just stared at 1812 01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,180 each other like no, no. I can't do this. 1813 01:57:31,170 --> 01:57:31,680 Unknown: Good. Well, 1814 01:57:31,710 --> 01:57:34,260 Adam Curry: I want to report every every board meeting I want 1815 01:57:34,260 --> 01:57:38,910 to report I want the the pod sage musical recommendation of 1816 01:57:38,910 --> 01:57:39,360 the week. 1817 01:57:40,320 --> 01:57:43,260 Unknown: We need a jingle Yeah, sir 1818 01:57:43,260 --> 01:57:46,110 Adam Curry: TJ the raffle Jeff Smith get on the stick people we 1819 01:57:46,110 --> 01:57:46,770 need the jingle. 1820 01:57:48,630 --> 01:57:52,560 Dave Jones: Get CSB coming in 34,000 sets out and he says that 1821 01:57:52,560 --> 01:57:53,820 he fellow white people David 1822 01:57:57,870 --> 01:58:00,180 Adam Curry: fellow white people made 1823 01:58:00,180 --> 01:58:02,490 Dave Jones: it through shad GPT so we know this we know it's 1824 01:58:02,490 --> 01:58:06,420 safe. I have gray blue eyes and I'm passing as local in Northern 1825 01:58:06,420 --> 01:58:09,750 Europe including Scandinavia, despite merely being a Polak. 1826 01:58:10,020 --> 01:58:13,650 However, if you are if you are an American, or you are 1827 01:58:13,650 --> 01:58:16,230 interested in black American culture and culture and 1828 01:58:16,230 --> 01:58:19,920 experiences in history, then I recommend podcast no facts which 1829 01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:26,220 you can find at www dot mov facts Z with a z.com to get 1830 01:58:26,220 --> 01:58:29,280 comprehensive insights that go beyond surface level commentary. 1831 01:58:29,280 --> 01:58:30,240 Yossi SB 1832 01:58:30,270 --> 01:58:32,580 Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Dan love that. That guy's doing 1833 01:58:32,580 --> 01:58:35,580 that. He's promoting everyone else's podcast. That's so cool. 1834 01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:39,120 That's so cool. Very cool. That's really cool that ESP 1835 01:58:39,120 --> 01:58:39,810 appreciate it. 1836 01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:42,990 Dave Jones: We got some monthlies. We got pod page 1837 01:58:43,020 --> 01:58:44,250 Brendan ever pockets bread 1838 01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:47,610 Adam Curry: dollars now with chapters and transcripts on the 1839 01:58:47,640 --> 01:58:50,670 pod page. He's pulling that right in. 1840 01:58:51,510 --> 01:58:53,160 Dave Jones: Oh, is that a new feature? Yeah, 1841 01:58:53,190 --> 01:58:57,450 Adam Curry: yes. New says noise is noise on pod page. Cameron 1842 01:58:57,450 --> 01:59:00,300 Dave Jones: Rose $25 Thank you, Cameron. been around long time 1843 01:59:00,300 --> 01:59:03,630 appreciate you brother Chad Farrow, the Chief Chief 1844 01:59:03,630 --> 01:59:08,670 Marketing Officer of bugs in 2.0 $20.20. Thank you, Chad. 1845 01:59:08,700 --> 01:59:13,080 Always pleasure. New Media $1. That's Martin Landeskog and 1846 01:59:13,080 --> 01:59:15,750 Martin and Mark Graham $1. Thank you. 1847 01:59:16,710 --> 01:59:18,930 Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. I check the tally coin. 1848 01:59:19,260 --> 01:59:21,930 Nothing there of course but in case you want to donate a whole 1849 01:59:21,930 --> 01:59:25,680 Bitcoin to the project. Go to podcast index.org down at the 1850 01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:28,890 bottom you'll see two red donate buttons one is for on chain 1851 01:59:28,890 --> 01:59:32,820 Bitcoin. The other is for your Fiat fun coupons through Pay 1852 01:59:32,820 --> 01:59:37,200 Pal. And of course, we recommend you go to podcast apps.com Get a 1853 01:59:37,290 --> 01:59:41,370 modern podcast app for all kinds of reasons. There's what are we 1854 01:59:41,370 --> 01:59:45,390 what are we now on features 2019 and 20 1855 01:59:45,900 --> 01:59:47,460 Dave Jones: Blend namespace feature Yeah. 1856 01:59:48,780 --> 01:59:51,000 Adam Curry: Who does a lot there's a lot. 1857 01:59:51,540 --> 01:59:53,670 Dave Jones: I happen to be on the podcast namespace page and I 1858 01:59:53,670 --> 01:59:55,110 can't count them. Yeah, well then 1859 01:59:55,110 --> 01:59:57,540 Adam Curry: Dave is counting. I'm gonna say this set between 1860 01:59:57,540 --> 02:00:02,070 17 and 20 and a A lot of these apps have implemented all of 1861 02:00:02,070 --> 02:00:07,350 them. And the one that the one that we like is V for v. So you 1862 02:00:07,350 --> 02:00:11,520 can fill up your, your app, fill it up with some Satoshis. And 1863 02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:16,860 boost us and we'll be happy 25 Wow. And we'll be happy to happy 1864 02:00:16,860 --> 02:00:20,520 to read out your note and thank you on the show. And, as always, 1865 02:00:21,750 --> 02:00:26,010 excuse me, this is a value for value project, podcasting. 2.0 1866 02:00:26,010 --> 02:00:28,590 Everything we do you got podcasting or saw social, we got 1867 02:00:28,590 --> 02:00:33,420 the website. We've got the API. We got the namespace. We're here 1868 02:00:33,420 --> 02:00:36,870 for you with the podcast and the board meeting every single week. 1869 02:00:36,870 --> 02:00:39,960 And we appreciate all our board members who showed up in the in 1870 02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:43,470 the chat, which you can access to some of these apps as well. 1871 02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:49,020 Or how do we even promote the chat? How do people even know to 1872 02:00:49,020 --> 02:00:53,880 go there? Do we even promote it? To the IRC chat? Yeah, to the 1873 02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,100 IRC chat? Well, that's where everyone is. I think the IRC 1874 02:00:56,100 --> 02:00:56,580 chat you know, 1875 02:00:56,580 --> 02:00:58,590 Dave Jones: what's funny is I keep tweeting and tweeting out 1876 02:00:58,590 --> 02:01:02,130 the same chat link from like, literally five months ago. 1877 02:01:02,160 --> 02:01:04,770 Adam Curry: And that's the, the nostril chat. 1878 02:01:05,250 --> 02:01:09,420 Dave Jones: That's the MK Ultra chat. That That thing's just 1879 02:01:09,420 --> 02:01:12,030 been running for months. I have no idea what kind of craziness 1880 02:01:12,030 --> 02:01:13,170 is going on in that chat. 1881 02:01:13,230 --> 02:01:14,490 Adam Curry: I don't think anyone uses it. 1882 02:01:15,900 --> 02:01:20,310 Dave Jones: Let's go check out. There might be all sorts of 1883 02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:21,300 horrible Shiny, 1884 02:01:21,330 --> 02:01:24,990 Unknown: shiny stuff. Probably. That's possible. See, chat. 1885 02:01:25,350 --> 02:01:27,120 Adam Curry: I wonder if anyone's ever in there. That's 1886 02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:27,690 interesting. 1887 02:01:28,590 --> 02:01:31,530 Dave Jones: Chris, you know, from five days ago, no, he's 1888 02:01:31,530 --> 02:01:33,660 talking about nip 47 Your wallet. 1889 02:01:35,730 --> 02:01:37,590 Adam Curry: Wallet Connect. There you go. There's stuff in 1890 02:01:37,590 --> 02:01:40,110 there. All right, everybody. We look forward to seeing you next 1891 02:01:40,110 --> 02:01:44,400 week. Same time, same IRC channel. And of course, we'll be 1892 02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:48,300 on the stream. Get them on podcast app, it will notify you 1893 02:01:48,300 --> 02:01:51,420 when we go live and make sure to send us a boost. We're happy to 1894 02:01:51,420 --> 02:01:53,700 send you a boost back brother Dave, thank you so much, man. 1895 02:01:53,700 --> 02:01:56,490 It's always the people that don't maybe don't realize it. 1896 02:01:56,490 --> 02:02:00,330 But this is literally the only time we talk. Yes. 1897 02:02:01,170 --> 02:02:03,390 Dave Jones: There's a few texts during the week but this is when 1898 02:02:03,390 --> 02:02:04,200 we talk pretty 1899 02:02:04,200 --> 02:02:07,710 Adam Curry: much it so this is a true true board meeting. Thank 1900 02:02:07,710 --> 02:02:10,320 you all everybody. We will see you next week. That concludes 1901 02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:14,220 the board meeting with all of our resolutions. The meeting 1902 02:02:14,220 --> 02:02:16,320 minutes will be in the transcript See you next Friday. 1903 02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:17,790 Everybody take care bye bye. 1904 02:02:34,290 --> 02:02:38,850 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1905 02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:41,610 index.org for more information. 1906 02:02:44,070 --> 02:02:46,380 So that's happening