1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,830 Oh, podcasting 2.0 for September 11 2020, this is episode number 2 00:00:04,830 --> 00:00:07,170 two and we have lift off 3 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:21,269 and despite the rumors that he is just an AI that I control 4 00:00:21,269 --> 00:00:27,119 secretly through a Twitter API, he's alive. Dave Jones in 5 00:00:27,119 --> 00:00:28,619 Alabama. Hey, Dave. 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,240 alive but tired. 7 00:00:30,269 --> 00:00:32,249 You must be wiped buddy. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,230 Yeah, it's it's been a crazy week. Let's. Yeah, let's just 9 00:00:37,230 --> 00:00:39,060 agree to that. It's been crazy. 10 00:00:39,090 --> 00:00:42,150 We have not I don't think we've actually spoken on the phone. We 11 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:48,540 had a call was Monday, I think on Labor Day or late talk. Yeah. 12 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:54,720 It's been email. It's been instant message. And we both and 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,240 we have not we have not spoken. So everything you're hearing 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:04,770 here on podcasting. 2.0. Is it is the corporate meeting. It's 15 00:01:04,770 --> 00:01:06,000 the board meeting right here. 16 00:01:06,270 --> 00:01:08,070 When you take your doing minutes, right. 17 00:01:08,130 --> 00:01:12,270 Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's called show notes. We've just 18 00:01:12,270 --> 00:01:18,960 change that. Yes. Well, let me see. I think the best place to 19 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:22,350 pick it up is from the last episode, where we were planning 20 00:01:22,350 --> 00:01:25,890 on launching a lot of things happened really quickly, after 21 00:01:25,890 --> 00:01:28,140 we recorded that initial podcast, which I think was 22 00:01:28,140 --> 00:01:33,510 August 28. And I do want to say it feels weird to do a show on 23 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,540 September 11. Because you're supposed to do all kinds of 24 00:01:36,540 --> 00:01:40,050 patriotic shows. I think actually, this is one of the 25 00:01:40,050 --> 00:01:43,200 most patriotic things we could do. Because we are, after all, 26 00:01:43,590 --> 00:01:47,940 going for a platform of free speech, which is funny. 27 00:01:47,940 --> 00:01:51,570 I had a I've got a buddy. We have a long sort of long running 28 00:01:51,570 --> 00:01:55,860 text chain. And I did not know until today, like this morning 29 00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:58,920 that he He's originally from Indiana, but spent some time in 30 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,420 Boston. And he'd say he texted the our thread and was talking 31 00:02:03,450 --> 00:02:07,800 this telling the story about how he was interviewed by the FBI 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,340 after nine like after right after 911 Because he had 33 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:14,970 inadvertently talked to one of the terrorists on the train like 34 00:02:14,970 --> 00:02:20,640 the morning of Yeah, and he was he was like, it was surreal. I 35 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:24,480 mean, they Yeah. He didn't say a whole lot more about it. But he 36 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,720 evidently had contact like the AC the morning over the day 37 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,310 before. And he had no idea. And then his mother saw the gallon, 38 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:36,270 one of the mug shots on on TV. And he was like, that's the guy. 39 00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:38,580 You know, that's the guy. He got like a visit from the FBI and 40 00:02:38,580 --> 00:02:40,590 all this stuff. He's like, Well, I don't know what to tell you. I 41 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:43,020 mean, I just, you know, we're just chit chatting or whatever. 42 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:44,640 Yeah, it was crazy. 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,250 Well, that means that you're on a list somewhere to you with 44 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:52,920 your endless texts. Oh, yeah. You're on the list. You're on 45 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:53,670 the list man 46 00:02:53,790 --> 00:02:57,990 on 12 levels deep and on certain linkage to linkage to linkage. 47 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,850 So we got kind of a surprise after we'd recorded episode 48 00:03:02,850 --> 00:03:06,390 number one. And that was Joe Rogan, who texted me and said, 49 00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:09,600 bro, you got to be the first person on on the podcast and the 50 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,200 new studio. And so I knew that I would be talking about podcast 51 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,470 index, which actually, eventually I got it out. 52 00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:22,530 Yeah, that was an interesting show. It's an interesting show. 53 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,980 Yeah, I get to get to that was a slow mo show. 54 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,460 Well, and by the way, if anyone heard the audio, please note 55 00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:32,010 that there were I think there was some transcoding error from 56 00:03:32,010 --> 00:03:36,780 48 kilohertz to 44 one and I sound like had cotton mouth and 57 00:03:36,780 --> 00:03:38,610 mouth flirting with Oh, is 58 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:43,140 that what that is? Yes. I kept thinking Adam never has a list. 59 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:47,970 No, no, no, no. If you put it at one time to speed it's normal 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,820 then it's right back and I don't know Joe's voice that Well, I 61 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:54,300 mean, I know what of course. And it his doesn't change that much. 62 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:59,280 It's so slight but for me, it was really just this is what I 63 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,410 know we were lit but not like that. Not 64 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:04,260 yet hair lip. Even Tina 65 00:04:04,260 --> 00:04:08,400 the keeper, my wife. She's like, what's wrong? I've never heard 66 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,000 you like that. And it was him a pothead. But no, no, no, no, it 67 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,770 was something that was a technical thing. It sucked. 68 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,010 That's the part that bothered me the most everything else I could 69 00:04:17,010 --> 00:04:20,100 live with. But let's make it sound like that. Well, I knew 70 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:22,470 those guys had a lot of technical shit to deal with. So, 71 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,020 I mean, they put their whole studio together and like, what a 72 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:28,890 week? Yeah, a couple, three weeks but yeah, audio stuff, and 73 00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:31,110 it's just a temporary studio. He's building something 74 00:04:31,530 --> 00:04:34,680 outrageous. So yeah, a lot of people don't realize that but 75 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,120 that's okay. Now of course it did spark a lot of interest. A 76 00:04:39,930 --> 00:04:44,490 lot of people started showing up with questions the I made the 77 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:48,690 mistake of not yet installing a filter on info at podcast 78 00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:53,970 index.org. So what is all this email I got? I've got segregated 79 00:04:53,970 --> 00:05:01,290 out the response to me now we have different responsibilities. 80 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:04,470 And I'm you know, if anything, I'm I'm driving the, the outward 81 00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:08,310 force and getting, you know, getting the word out as talking 82 00:05:08,310 --> 00:05:13,860 to developers, end users at a level that, that at least I can 83 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:16,890 go to passing anything off for Dave, you're grabbing stuff that 84 00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:23,220 is technical in nature. What I saw was incredible enthusiasm. I 85 00:05:23,220 --> 00:05:28,080 saw, I would say a large percentage of people who 86 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,190 contacted us saying, oh, man, I've been waiting for something 87 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:36,240 like this. This is so needed. I wrote a white paper I've I've 88 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,750 been collecting feeds, I mean, everyone has been doing so. And 89 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:44,340 it feels like to me, a little ripple of goose kind of went 90 00:05:44,340 --> 00:05:52,020 through the whole maybe the whole industry in a way, 91 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,770 something's happening. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. This 92 00:05:55,770 --> 00:05:58,440 might be this might be something oh, maybe this will be good. 93 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,830 Feels like kind of people were waiting for something, or we're 94 00:06:01,830 --> 00:06:05,610 hoping or maybe just felt a little despair? Or what was your 95 00:06:05,610 --> 00:06:06,210 impression? 96 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:11,100 Yeah, I think I felt that too. There are a lot of people, like 97 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:14,190 from the I had emails from people that either it was kind 98 00:06:14,190 --> 00:06:17,370 of like they wanted two camps. They either got it, like, right 99 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:21,810 off the bat, they got the whole point. Or they just didn't like 100 00:06:21,870 --> 00:06:24,570 they didn't get it at all. I mean, it was there was no, like, 101 00:06:25,020 --> 00:06:27,360 there was very little of like, what, what exactly are y'all 102 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,290 trying to do? I mean, it was more like this, you know, this 103 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:35,820 is sort of irrelevant. You know, why are you even bothering or 104 00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:43,650 100% on board both feet in? And like, I think that some of them 105 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:50,100 confusion, maybe around some of that may come from just not 106 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:54,390 understanding what this thing is. This is not, this is not a 107 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:58,440 product, right? We ran off. And this is not a Silicon Valley 108 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,530 product launch, where we ran off and built this product with a 109 00:07:01,530 --> 00:07:04,860 team of 10 Dudes over the course of six months. And now we're 110 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:08,280 going to quote unquote, launch this, that's not what this I 111 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:11,940 mean, this, this is not a, this is not the launch of a product. 112 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:17,460 It's like the opening of a project. And the goal of the 113 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:25,170 project is to be a central directory start initially, for 114 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:30,780 developers to be able to have a directory that's been open and 115 00:07:30,780 --> 00:07:34,170 free, that they can depend on. I mean, that like, that's, that's 116 00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:37,110 the beginning of it. I mean, consider that we did I committed 117 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:42,450 the first code of this project. On August the sixth. That's how 118 00:07:42,450 --> 00:07:46,050 fast this happened. Okay. It was helped. It was helped by the, 119 00:07:46,050 --> 00:07:48,240 you know, like we said, On the last episode, 10 years of 120 00:07:48,630 --> 00:07:51,840 development of aggregator development, with our, with our 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,930 other project, but so I was able to let you know, lift and drop a 122 00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:57,780 lot of code in there. So it got off the ground quick. But I 123 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:02,070 mean, if you look at, you know, if you look at the project, now, 124 00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:06,060 I mean, the the email, the email confirmations need to give her a 125 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:09,990 verification look like crap. You know, the UI is sketchy in 126 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:12,270 places. I saw it on safari last night, and there was something 127 00:08:12,270 --> 00:08:13,530 that was that way. And 128 00:08:13,530 --> 00:08:17,190 just, just me interject for a second. Part of the whole idea 129 00:08:17,190 --> 00:08:21,150 of this project, is if you have skills and you can fix whatever 130 00:08:21,150 --> 00:08:26,220 Dave just said, Yes, help us. That's exactly what we want. 131 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:29,130 I've got a web developer showing up saying, Well, I've got these 132 00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:32,820 skills. Uh, hey, man, jump in. Do whatever, you can feed it 133 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:35,940 back to him. And you'll have to tell me, David, GitHub, the best 134 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:36,750 place to do that, 135 00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:39,810 or Oh, yeah, we're rolling a bunch of stuff on GitHub. Yeah. 136 00:08:39,930 --> 00:08:40,800 Yeah. Because we, 137 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,530 you know, we'd love that if we got comics through blogger who 138 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:48,600 created 18,000 lines of code for every scripting platform 139 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:54,150 imaginable. Big, big up to pod news, by the way, who James 140 00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:58,860 credible. Yeah, definitely got the as you said, Dave, the 141 00:08:58,860 --> 00:09:02,280 squishy as squishy as launch ever, which is true, because 142 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,490 it's not really a launch. It's a project opening. They really 143 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:08,250 helped and, and I'm really appreciative of that. And they 144 00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:10,620 integrated almost right away, we got interrupt with them on their 145 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:14,880 search. Fantastic. Okay, so I interrupted you. I just want to 146 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,760 make sure that people understand that's the whole idea here is 147 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,110 help out jump in. 148 00:09:19,530 --> 00:09:27,270 Yes, that lit. So James over at pod news is has been fantastic. 149 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:30,030 He's, you know, he sent us that article. He had written about 150 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:34,320 this very topic before, and a few years, a couple of years 151 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,590 ago. And so when he saw what we were doing and heard what we 152 00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:41,190 were doing, he ended it was like Antinous energy. So he said, 153 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:45,390 Yeah, I'm on board. I mean, he was he was on board. He was 154 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,980 pinging us. He was pinging our search, like renew like three 155 00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:55,110 days before we even had any product out on or excuse me a 156 00:09:55,140 --> 00:09:59,970 side up. So he was like he was early in and also the guy 157 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,310 as@transistor.fm Yeah, they're jump, they jumped on board. A 158 00:10:05,310 --> 00:10:09,300 lot of folks, I mean, just to too many dimension to have just 159 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,620 jump, send us an email and said, This is great. And all those 160 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:17,220 guys are just like started redirecting over to GitHub. And 161 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:19,590 we're throwing, like, we're throwing repositories up on 162 00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:23,520 GitHub as fast as we can. And those guys, they're starting to 163 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,330 moderate projects themselves. And like, it's cool. Yeah. And 164 00:10:27,330 --> 00:10:30,720 I'm, I'm gonna go, especially the documentation, there's a lot 165 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,580 of API help that they have. They're editing the API docs. So 166 00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:38,880 and so I'm gonna, I'm going to be putting up pieces of 167 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,080 aggregator code probably today, just to let people see that and 168 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,600 because I think we're going to talk about the aggregator song. 169 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,650 And, yeah, now it's been great, very busy, but great. 170 00:10:50,190 --> 00:10:52,860 If you're listening to this, and your eyes are starting to glaze 171 00:10:52,860 --> 00:10:57,090 over, don't worry, that's because you're probably just 172 00:10:57,090 --> 00:10:59,910 interested in what the future could be of podcasting, what 173 00:10:59,910 --> 00:11:02,880 we're trying to do. That goes along with that, although it 174 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,980 hasn't been that much, but people saying, Hey, I just wanna 175 00:11:04,980 --> 00:11:09,300 make sure I'm in your index. And these are obviously users. And 176 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:12,450 also, people who say, I'm a fan of the show can make sure it's 177 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:16,800 in the index. That is exactly the point. We want to be able 178 00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:20,280 for everybody to submit their favorite podcast feed to the 179 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,670 index. And there's all kinds of things that we have to look at 180 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:28,050 for that. The feedback has been invaluable. Like we also think 181 00:11:28,050 --> 00:11:32,040 it should happen. at the app level or the player level, you 182 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,010 know, that's where you should be able to do these things. Will we 183 00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:38,490 have a submission, of course, but when I see stuff showing up, 184 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,300 like a no agenda social.com, which is just a mastodon 185 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:48,150 account, I guess it will work on a federated server if you toot 186 00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:52,170 at podcast, and then I think you can even add from there. Now 187 00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:56,370 cancer, you can add a feed to the index just by sending a 188 00:11:56,370 --> 00:11:57,390 mastodon toot. 189 00:11:58,050 --> 00:12:00,390 I don't know, I haven't looked to date. Other things you could 190 00:12:00,390 --> 00:12:02,250 add in there. Yeah, that'd be great. I 191 00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:04,740 think so I think so. I'll check. Yeah. So 192 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:08,610 if you have to, do you have to toot at podcast and nogen to 193 00:12:08,610 --> 00:12:10,290 social? Or is it just all across? 194 00:12:10,319 --> 00:12:15,989 I think it's podcast at no agenda social.com If you're, if 195 00:12:15,989 --> 00:12:20,819 you're not on our server. So that's how you do it federated 196 00:12:20,819 --> 00:12:25,589 let me just see what what the here's podcast so we can do the 197 00:12:25,619 --> 00:12:29,939 Yes to at podcast ad and then your XML feed to submit a 198 00:12:29,939 --> 00:12:32,129 podcast RSS feed. So it's already in there. 199 00:12:32,730 --> 00:12:36,390 That's crazy. So you can add like, in this is the perfect 200 00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:40,770 example of the stuff. So if you imagine a podcast directory or a 201 00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:43,920 podcast index, if I just say, you know, if you just say those 202 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,190 words to somebody, what they envision immediately is a 203 00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:50,580 website that you go to that you search for a podcast, and it 204 00:12:50,580 --> 00:12:55,230 brings back results. Okay, that, like, there's some of that out 205 00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:58,710 there already. I mean, that's not that's not a compelling 206 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,390 thing that the quote unquote world needs. What what the world 207 00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:11,370 needs is a Is that is that but focused on the underbone? The 208 00:13:11,490 --> 00:13:16,500 the inner the man I'm trying to say like the piping so that I 209 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:20,460 mean like immediately within like a day thing is a Jeff over 210 00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:25,200 on Oh, no agenda social had written this bot. Yeah. Now it's 211 00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:30,600 it's using our as using our API to subscribe to an ad feeds to 212 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,680 the to the index through Toots on mastodon. I mean, it's like, 213 00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:38,400 we had actually talked about that. And he did it in like an 214 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,670 hour. He was awesome. Like, that's the perfect example of 215 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:45,540 stuff that, like, we roll out this thing. And as long as it's 216 00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:48,660 free and open and accessible, everybody just comes out of the 217 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:49,980 woodworks and does crazy stuff. 218 00:13:50,010 --> 00:13:53,400 And that's exactly what I mean, I could not have hoped for a 219 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,200 better start to this by by seeing the creativity, because 220 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,140 that's really what we need. I mean, we have ideas. We have 221 00:14:01,140 --> 00:14:03,990 lots of thoughts. We'll talk about a few of them today. But 222 00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:08,670 really the creativity, I'm presuming that there is 223 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:12,450 creativity in abundance amongst the developing development 224 00:14:12,450 --> 00:14:16,560 community who have worked with podcasts. And once you get your 225 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,910 mindset a little bit out of, okay, this is overcast, or by 226 00:14:20,910 --> 00:14:23,850 the way, which has a lot of great features or, or this is 227 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,650 the Apple podcast app. What can you do? I mean, is it a key you 228 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:31,680 make something customized key make something that features the 229 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,280 ones that you like, or the ones that your users of your app, 230 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,850 like there's so many different things, subscription lists, 231 00:14:39,150 --> 00:14:45,090 sharing comparison, we've got machine learning people in AI 232 00:14:45,090 --> 00:14:47,850 people and I'm actually I'm on a different I'm going to try this 233 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:54,360 day. So I'm going to do a at podcast at no agenda. I'm on a 234 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,850 different instance. No agenda social.com 235 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,670 And you're on a federated instance. Yeah, yeah, I'm 236 00:14:59,670 --> 00:15:02,280 on a fake derated instance let's see if it works across 237 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,180 Federation. I don't see why wouldn't miss the new see if 238 00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:11,790 I've addressed that properly. See if it comes back. Takes a 239 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:18,720 second usually. Okay, so far nothing. 240 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,650 Excitement, excitement. 241 00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:24,900 We're working on it. We're working on it. 242 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:30,360 Yeah. That's, you know that. I wonder how much they regulate 243 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,750 bots across? Federation? I don't know anything? 244 00:15:33,810 --> 00:15:34,920 That's a good question. 245 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,230 I really don't understand. There's some businesses out 246 00:15:37,230 --> 00:15:39,450 there that don't they're like no bots at all. They just ban 247 00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:43,800 Amina. I think Mastodon dot online is that way if you're a 248 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,020 bot, and you're getting immediately immediately 249 00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:48,930 squashed. I wonder there may be some like they had to ask Jeff 250 00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:49,260 about. 251 00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:53,820 Okay, let me just check and see. I got one. Let me see. Let's see 252 00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:57,060 if it worked. That came through. I may not have addressed it 253 00:15:57,060 --> 00:16:02,820 properly. Okay. Okay, I don't know how this works. But the 254 00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:06,060 podcast and the podcast bought returned. Thank you for your 255 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:06,660 courage. 256 00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:13,710 Something to happen, but you don't know what it was 257 00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:19,080 stuff with the AI already. We'll have to figure out what that is 258 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,360 that. That's that's very holy. That's hilarious. 259 00:16:21,630 --> 00:16:24,330 Yeah, we need some more descriptive search results 260 00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:24,480 there. 261 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,650 All right. So there's a couple here, I want to bring up one, I 262 00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:36,900 think meta issue that has been brought up several times. And 263 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:39,630 this is I would call it since we're talking about Mastodon, 264 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:45,510 the mastodon issue with the app stores. As we know, Google Play 265 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:51,390 has either has started or is or has completed removing any app 266 00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:58,050 that connects to a Mastadon server. And they use the 267 00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:02,130 developer Terms of Service guidelines to do this by saying 268 00:17:02,370 --> 00:17:07,320 you have created an app that could potentially connect to 269 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,780 servers that contain hate speech. And they're being 270 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:16,440 removed. For that reason. The obvious counter argument is, oh, 271 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,560 well, what about a browser? Well, you can also get different 272 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,900 browsers and those have not been taken down. And I've seen an 273 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,040 actual concern amongst some developers that Apple may go the 274 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,180 same way. And I actually it is in their terms of service. There 275 00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:37,800 is some language for the app developer that insinuates Hey, 276 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:44,160 let me see, I brought up this page earlier. It's under that 277 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,230 under safety, user generated content. Apps with user 278 00:17:49,230 --> 00:17:51,900 generated content presents particular challenges ranging 279 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,420 from intellectual property infringement to anonymous 280 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:58,200 bullying. To prevent abuse apps with user generated content, or 281 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,650 social networking services must include a method for filtering 282 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:04,440 objection of material from being posted to the app, a mechanism 283 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,070 to report offensive content and timely responses to concerns the 284 00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:11,610 ability to block abusive cert users from the service and 285 00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:18,720 publish contact information so users can easily reach you. So I 286 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,060 think in this there's a lot of you know, they go on to 287 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:25,860 children, and there's just a lot of stuff in there that I just 288 00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:31,860 can be used at any time, will they? I don't know. Personally, 289 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:39,210 the way I feel about this is a, it could not it's almost the 290 00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:42,060 best thing that could happen if they started throwing podcast 291 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:45,480 apps out, because they connect to an index that might 292 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:51,000 potentially lead you to harmful bullying content, which we hear 293 00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:56,400 just think speeches speech. There's obviously there's a 294 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,070 constitutional limitation, that's where we draw the line. 295 00:19:00,450 --> 00:19:05,910 Because that could actually cause enough pushback to change 296 00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:09,600 those rules. I think that pushback is very, very possible. 297 00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:13,170 It may never happen. I don't know. We also have been thinking 298 00:19:13,170 --> 00:19:16,740 about solutions on our end that we can offer the care to address 299 00:19:18,510 --> 00:19:20,550 on which which aspect is that just 300 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:27,570 purely if, if there's a threat? Do we have a way that people 301 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:31,950 can? Is it simple for an app to say, Okay, I have an issue, I 302 00:19:31,950 --> 00:19:34,950 need to remove this or not surface this? What do you do as 303 00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:39,390 a developer? Forget the philosophical part. How about 304 00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:40,320 the technical part? 305 00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:44,370 Yeah, on the technical part, there's going to be there's 306 00:19:44,370 --> 00:19:48,780 going to be a there's no API for this yet. But there will be a PR 307 00:19:48,780 --> 00:19:53,400 for that will basically just filter. So you can say these, 308 00:19:53,490 --> 00:20:00,630 well. It will be something similar to this. I read stir 309 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:07,170 with my API key, I register a set of feed IDs or feed URLs 310 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,980 that I just didn't that I basically banned from my API 311 00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:15,660 results. There. And there will be even say in any, you know, if 312 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,920 you, let's just say you're the guy that doesn't want Alex Jones 313 00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:23,100 showing up in your, in your feed searches for your user base of 314 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:28,380 your app. Well, you just register the filter. And that 315 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:31,170 doesn't that doesn't appear anymore. Very similar to the way 316 00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:35,790 Mastodon works, where you can moderators of a server can say 317 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:38,070 we don't want, right, we don't want to federate with this other 318 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:42,660 server. Oh, that's, that's fine. So it would be, it will be 319 00:20:42,660 --> 00:20:49,140 something like that. And now Now, currently, there is a text 320 00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:53,310 string in one of the API calls. And there will be more of this 321 00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:57,360 as well, where you can just say, exclude anything with the 322 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:02,100 strings in it. And the reason I put that in there was because 323 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,020 there's so many God casts out there. And it was dominating the 324 00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:10,740 carousel on the front page. So I had to put in, like, Okay, give 325 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:11,280 me these results. 326 00:21:11,550 --> 00:21:15,960 You did not? You did not AI God down to you. Oh, my goodness. 327 00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:22,290 Sorry, but I had to keep sermon audio off the page, because they 328 00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:22,530 do in 329 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:25,530 a minute. Yes. Yes. 330 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,870 It was too much. I was like, okay, all right, no sermon 331 00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:28,590 audio. But 332 00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:31,770 just that day, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's 333 00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:35,490 like to be able to work because we had a carousel that was that 334 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:39,120 was one of our first test apps just have a carousel of the most 335 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,780 recently updated podcast, the idea that you can solve that 336 00:21:42,780 --> 00:21:46,890 issue, that exception of which in the RSS world, in my opinion, 337 00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:52,560 there are 1000s. With with a simple added string to your 338 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,030 call. That's, that's perfect. That's off so much. It's so many 339 00:21:57,030 --> 00:21:58,050 problems. I think, 340 00:21:58,469 --> 00:22:03,299 what the new the newest API call that I added before, before the 341 00:22:03,299 --> 00:22:10,229 aggregator, gave me Hill was the it's recent, recent feeds. So 342 00:22:10,229 --> 00:22:13,019 it's essentially the firehose, right. So if you had, if you had 343 00:22:13,019 --> 00:22:15,899 an app, you had there's recent episodes was there already, and 344 00:22:15,899 --> 00:22:21,359 that's where we get the carousel from. But the recent feeds is 345 00:22:21,419 --> 00:22:23,789 the same thing. But it just tells you which feeds out have 346 00:22:23,819 --> 00:22:27,959 ever updated. So you can just monitor that. And if you see if 347 00:22:27,959 --> 00:22:32,489 the feed ID or the feed URL is one that you don't want to, you 348 00:22:32,489 --> 00:22:36,089 don't want to handle just, you know, ignore it. Right. So you 349 00:22:36,089 --> 00:22:39,029 know, there's, there's, there's that type of thing where it's 350 00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:43,019 simple, if you're returning all this data with every call, it's 351 00:22:43,019 --> 00:22:46,679 very simple to just ignore the things you don't like to. So you 352 00:22:46,679 --> 00:22:50,549 know, I mean, clearly, there are limits, like you said earlier, 353 00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:55,079 where, you know, there are going to be things that just bought 354 00:22:55,169 --> 00:22:59,729 violate law that that be that be considered. But if you're just 355 00:22:59,729 --> 00:23:04,469 talking about things that your preferences, you're free to do 356 00:23:04,589 --> 00:23:07,409 whatever you want, I mean, we're just given the whole thing to 357 00:23:07,409 --> 00:23:10,019 you. And then you can just dice it and slice it and dice it 358 00:23:10,019 --> 00:23:10,589 however you like. 359 00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:14,610 Which, which, which brings up another question that surfaced 360 00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:19,590 in different, different variations. So if I look right 361 00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:23,700 now on the podcast index, and I searched for no agenda, well, 362 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:26,070 there's a lot of no agenda podcasts, or at least a lot of 363 00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:31,560 podcasts that have no agenda in the name. This the result 364 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,200 ranking the, you know, is that just alphabetically Is that 365 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,850 something that pops up as by feed most recently updated? I 366 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:45,510 don't know exactly what we're returning on the search. But the 367 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,520 the obvious question is, well, what about pirated feeds and 368 00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:51,900 stuff like that? 369 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:58,110 Yeah, that that's something that I would like to solve with the 370 00:23:58,110 --> 00:24:03,030 whole community. It mean, you both have ideas? And we talked 371 00:24:03,030 --> 00:24:07,260 about it? Maybe a week ago? I don't remember. But we both have 372 00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:11,250 ideas. And it would be, and I think they're good. But I think 373 00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:13,590 really, this needs to be a community discussion of how to 374 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:16,470 solve this problem, because that I don't know how many emails you 375 00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:19,800 got, but I got quite a few. And they were saying, how do you 376 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:24,120 solve the fraudulent feed issue? Right? You know, and that, that 377 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,870 issue being if I'm explaining this correctly, somebody clones 378 00:24:27,870 --> 00:24:31,620 your feed, and then just starts to stick ads in it. Or, 379 00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:39,390 excuse me. Joe Rogan, gave me an example. Although it's not a 380 00:24:39,390 --> 00:24:43,530 feed example, when they were doing the Joe Rogan experience 381 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:48,600 live, streaming live to YouTube. They would, by the time they 382 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,080 finished the show, there would already be clips up on YouTube 383 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,980 on other people's channels, monetizing his clips. So that's 384 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:58,320 why they stopped streaming live so that they could have some 385 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,730 control over that. In this case, as a creator, there's a couple 386 00:25:02,730 --> 00:25:06,540 things I'd be looking for. So first of all, discoverability? 387 00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:10,950 And how do I surface so if I'm the no agenda Show podcast, and 388 00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:13,890 someone searches for no agenda, I have some personal 389 00:25:13,890 --> 00:25:18,450 responsibility to make sure that my, my description, my art, my 390 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,980 titles, all that clearly shows what I am. But if there's 391 00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:26,970 something that is a clone feed, and usually those are not 392 00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:32,790 necessarily one for one clones, but they're out there for sure, 393 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:41,760 I would just be to me, in 99.9%, of all cases, I'd be like, 394 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,690 great, my shows out there and more places, that's fine. I 395 00:25:45,690 --> 00:25:48,720 really don't care that much. The minute someone starts to make 396 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,640 money off of it by, you know, I guess, have connecting to pod 397 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,230 track or one of these other services and add service, all I 398 00:25:58,230 --> 00:26:03,690 would really need to know is okay. How do I go address that 399 00:26:03,690 --> 00:26:07,080 with either the person who made the feed, which would I guess 400 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,170 it's not much more than an email contact, which may go nowhere. 401 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,060 And ultimately, it's, I think it's also my responsibility to 402 00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:18,090 go and track that down. If there's some violation of you, 403 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,660 we can't always be counting on a third party to do all the shit 404 00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:24,930 for you. And I know that you and I certainly don't want to be 405 00:26:24,930 --> 00:26:27,180 doing that. We don't want to have to figure out what who's 406 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:30,600 doing what to someone else's feed. But in this open world, 407 00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:34,050 you're right. It's a community problem that we need to solve. 408 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,270 And I think it's, yeah, it depends on what's going on. But 409 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,850 you have to kind of take some responsibility. You can't just 410 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:44,550 say, Well, someone put it out there, and then you take care of 411 00:26:44,550 --> 00:26:45,660 it. You know what I mean? 412 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:48,570 Yeah, you can, like the delisting thing, 413 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:50,790 that's the I don't want to do list this is this is what you 414 00:26:50,790 --> 00:26:53,220 and I talked about, we really don't want to do list. I'd 415 00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:56,250 rather you go after somebody, and their feed stops, or you get 416 00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:57,270 them to D list. 417 00:26:58,050 --> 00:27:00,480 I was thinking about that. This morning, I was listening to on 418 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,780 the way to on the way to work, I was listening to a podcast 419 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:08,910 called The Bible project, which is great. And they they 420 00:27:08,910 --> 00:27:12,960 mentioned on there something about Luke Skywalker, they were 421 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,390 talking about Star Wars or reference or something like 422 00:27:15,390 --> 00:27:18,840 that. So in between the two, these two clips, or the in 423 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,200 between these two segments of the show, they entered, they 424 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,530 wove in, like a piece of music from the Star Wars soundtrack. 425 00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:33,600 And it was, it was so well done. I got good editors on that show. 426 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,650 So well done. And it was great. But I was thinking as soon as I 427 00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:40,290 heard that, though, it was it was actually quite a long piece 428 00:27:40,290 --> 00:27:44,070 of music. It was maybe, I don't know, 30 seconds or so. I was 429 00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:47,820 thinking, you know, if this show was on YouTube, there would have 430 00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:51,330 been DMCA by their algorithm immediately. Yeah, because it's 431 00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:53,820 just it because it's going to it's going to trigger something. 432 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,750 But because it's a podcast, and it's coming in from the district 433 00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:00,960 from the decentralized, distributed internet, you can't 434 00:28:00,990 --> 00:28:05,280 stop it. It's, it's just there, there's no central place where 435 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,760 it gets demonetised or D, you know, or D listed. So as long as 436 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,630 there's some, as long as it's a feed, and it exists somewhere, 437 00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:19,290 you can subscribe to it, and you can listen to it. So they like 438 00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:23,700 that. That is the whole idea. So we don't want to get into the D 439 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,600 listing game. Because that's that's just not like, that's 440 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:28,680 antithetical to everything. 441 00:28:29,130 --> 00:28:32,280 Well, and we're doing and to take it even further, as I've 442 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,610 learned from some of the people have reached out the D listing 443 00:28:35,610 --> 00:28:39,780 game is in podcasting is becoming gross. And here's what 444 00:28:39,780 --> 00:28:45,030 I've learned. Yeah. So most hosts these days where you get, 445 00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:48,150 you know, half a gig, whatever, do your podcast, they got the 446 00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:52,320 WordPress plugin and all that stuff. They will also help you 447 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,070 submit your feed. So if you want to submit your feed, to 448 00:28:56,550 --> 00:28:59,550 everything all in one go, and we already have a couple of a 449 00:28:59,550 --> 00:29:03,360 couple of podcast hosts who are now integrating with with the 450 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,720 index. So that that'll be an automatic submit to us as well. 451 00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:12,990 They, when it comes to Spotify is crazy. When it comes to 452 00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:19,740 Spotify, they force the podcast host to host that file from 453 00:29:19,740 --> 00:29:23,040 their servers. So you can't you know, upload it somewhere else 454 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,120 where you might have, you know, some unlimited space or just a 455 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,160 different service and hand off an enclosure URL that is not 456 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,680 accepted by Spotify, in this case, and the reason why is they 457 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,570 reserve the right to remove an episode which goes all the way 458 00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:46,680 downstream to the podcast host Believe it or not, they remove 459 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,730 it from their server. 460 00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:53,790 Oh, so if I'm so what you're saying is if I'm Lipson Is that 461 00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:58,980 how you say it? Then I have to host the mp3 at my house on my 462 00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:01,050 domain. I can't 463 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,870 add Lipson they have to have left Lipson, yes, they have to 464 00:30:03,870 --> 00:30:07,620 be Lipson Yeah. And or else you can. I don't know if Lipson has 465 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,080 a deal. I don't I have no idea. We're just using that as an 466 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,430 example. Okay. Right. Yeah. So Spotify, find something 467 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:18,900 offensive. They they send a ping back to the host. And those guys 468 00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:20,280 gotta take it off the server. 469 00:30:20,790 --> 00:30:23,670 Wow. Okay. That's that is kind of crazy. 470 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,560 I'm not even sure why. 471 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,200 I mean, well, they're not. That's weird. I wonder why they 472 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,960 would do that. Because they're not in, they're not putting ads 473 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:34,800 in or anything. So 474 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,470 what someone will let us know, it's not about ads. It's about 475 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:41,700 it's about the removal. And instead an episode basis the way 476 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:42,840 I understand it. So 477 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,410 oh, maybe it's, well, I guess it's probably got to do with the 478 00:30:46,410 --> 00:30:51,000 larger ad safety of the so context. Yeah. 479 00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:55,260 So I think I tried to bring this to Joe Rogan's attention. I want 480 00:30:55,260 --> 00:30:57,900 to reiterate it, maybe we've already done this. It's like now 481 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:00,930 it's an old story for me. Having 482 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,910 brand safety, not ads, I'm sorry, right? 483 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:08,820 Yeah, brand safety. Having something outside of the safe 484 00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:15,420 zone. Whatever it is, is completely analogous to America 485 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:20,790 Online. AOL was a closed system. AOL, people love, they had 486 00:31:20,790 --> 00:31:23,580 message boards, they had chats, you had all kinds of stuff you 487 00:31:23,580 --> 00:31:27,060 could do. And as the internet grew outside around it, people 488 00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:31,830 started saying, I want to see that, can you we want to browser 489 00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:34,500 give us access to the internet and they relented, it took a 490 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,800 long time. It must have taken a year and a half. They relented. 491 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,390 Okay. You click on this button, but you got to confirm, you 492 00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:46,710 know, it's dangerous out there. It's really scary. And then once 493 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:49,380 they open that portal, and people could go get all the 494 00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:52,890 quote unquote, fun stuff. He was over. And they became a dial up 495 00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:56,010 service. They literally became a dial up service within a few 496 00:31:56,010 --> 00:32:01,710 years. And it's because people always want what's on the on the 497 00:32:01,710 --> 00:32:04,830 dangerous side. And and all that dangerous when you're just 498 00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:08,070 browsing around, you're in your house. So I mean, as 499 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:10,410 you get as soon as you get the warning, you're like, Yeah, 500 00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:10,650 good. 501 00:32:11,790 --> 00:32:15,090 stuff. Exactly. We used to say in the music business, kids will 502 00:32:15,090 --> 00:32:19,080 beg, beg, borrow, steal, they'll do anything they can to get that 503 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,320 record, they gotta have that up. Gotta have it, they'll do 504 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,670 anything back in the day, pre internet, pre internet, you did 505 00:32:26,670 --> 00:32:30,270 everything you could. And so I think that that still holds 506 00:32:30,270 --> 00:32:33,030 today. That's why you know, kids today, and I'm just when I say 507 00:32:33,030 --> 00:32:37,380 kids, I'm talking millennials. 2030. Even younger, although I 508 00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:41,070 did not my life anymore. Younger kids. They know what Tor is. 509 00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:43,950 They're like, am on the deep web Dad. Look at his shit. I found a 510 00:32:43,950 --> 00:32:47,310 whore. Yeah, they know what Tor is yet. They don't know exactly 511 00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:49,650 how it works. But you want to go on the dark web, you get your 512 00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:54,870 tour? And you find that or Yeah. So yeah, that's the level which 513 00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:58,830 is understandable. It's understandable. So there's we're 514 00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:02,040 going to have apps connected to the index and the and what is 515 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,710 available and the functions from the index that I think will be 516 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:08,040 very, very popular. It may be an html5 app. 517 00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:13,620 With that, I mean, that's great. That'd be fantastic. html5 apps, 518 00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:18,000 or DL and get the list them. They just exist. 519 00:33:18,030 --> 00:33:20,760 Exactly. And there's no app store. I already saw one 520 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,940 developer to check in. I think I think she said I think that she 521 00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:28,830 was was going to start working on it. Let me see if I can see 522 00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:35,010 who that is. While I'm looking through these emails. Thank you. 523 00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:39,480 Go ahead. Good. Well, I was gonna say, and I'm not quite 524 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,580 sure how typically with a value for value podcast, we thank all 525 00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:48,720 individual donors who supported the podcast under our value for 526 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,890 value model. We don't really need the podcast sponsored, we 527 00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:57,840 need the entire index supported by the community. I was blown 528 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:06,210 away. I was I was blown away. We even got a $1,000 donation. And 529 00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:12,870 several $100 $5 $10 $50. I mean, we have our bandwidth covered 530 00:34:12,870 --> 00:34:16,470 for at least a little bit in our servers, and it's so appreciated 531 00:34:16,590 --> 00:34:20,100 at the end, and also the notes that people were sending with it 532 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:24,270 just I don't know if we want to, if we want to credit those 533 00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:28,140 people, not everybody may want that. So if it's okay, or if 534 00:34:28,140 --> 00:34:32,070 it's let's put it this way, if it's not okay to talk about your 535 00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:35,880 support. Put that in the note as you do it. Because from time to 536 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,340 time, I just want to reference people, you know, it's just it's 537 00:34:38,370 --> 00:34:41,970 incredibly, incredibly kind. And people 538 00:34:41,970 --> 00:34:44,730 if you donate Yeah, if you donate and you don't want to be 539 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,100 mentioned on the show, please, you know, put that in there 540 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:50,100 because I mean, otherwise we'd love to hear your name because 541 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:56,490 you're awesome. And they know. I mean, our hosting fees right now 542 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,980 are right about $200 a month and that's gonna go, that's gonna go 543 00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:06,180 up. Clearly we need, we probably need about three more servers. 544 00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:07,620 And I'm holding off. 545 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,230 Yeah, tell me a bit about the infrastructure, where are we at? 546 00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:14,670 And how's, how's everything working? Because we knew that we 547 00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:17,070 were going to get a lot of I mean, you basically were heads 548 00:35:17,070 --> 00:35:19,860 down for a week and a half, maybe two weeks, just making 549 00:35:19,860 --> 00:35:22,710 sure that we were ready for something we didn't know what 550 00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:25,710 will be coming other than people, curious people. But how 551 00:35:25,710 --> 00:35:26,700 many? We don't know. 552 00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:32,190 Yeah, I'm gonna put, I'm gonna put all this stuff up on GitHub 553 00:35:32,190 --> 00:35:36,690 in time as I, as I'm able to, like a diagram with the way the 554 00:35:36,690 --> 00:35:40,440 Arca architecture is. But I mean, from a simple perspective 555 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,040 is, you know, we've got a couple of database servers that are 556 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,600 hosting that are hosting everything, hang in front of 557 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:55,020 that is an nginx server that is running the is the front end for 558 00:35:55,020 --> 00:36:03,630 the API behind that as PHP FPM, which is dialed in to, to talk 559 00:36:03,630 --> 00:36:08,580 to the database servers. Now, for search, we're using a thing 560 00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:12,510 called Sphinx. So we have a sphinx server, that index is the 561 00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:18,060 newsfeed stable about every 15 minutes. Then, hanging off of 562 00:36:18,060 --> 00:36:24,750 that is the or the, there's five, currently five aggregators 563 00:36:25,110 --> 00:36:29,640 that are running nonstop and they split. They split up the 564 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,190 workload between feeds that have updated within the last three 565 00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:45,120 days, seven days. I think it's 14 days, 30 and 60. Out, I don't 566 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,800 know, I forget the exact breakdown. But basically, we're 567 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,400 trying to say, Okay, this aggregator is looking at stuff 568 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,400 that update updates based frequently. This one's looking 569 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,830 at stuff that's a little bit older. So that way, we're 570 00:36:55,830 --> 00:36:59,310 spreading a million plus feeds across multiple aggregators. And 571 00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:01,500 that's one of the servers we'll have to add, we'll probably 572 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:06,210 need, you know, a couple more, at least. And that's just, 573 00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:12,090 that's on top of the web sub stuff that that I'm working on 574 00:37:12,090 --> 00:37:12,750 right now. So 575 00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:15,420 one question. So when you say you're spinning up the servers, 576 00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:18,510 what, what? What size? You're spinning up? You're not setting 577 00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:20,790 up, you know, 20 core? 578 00:37:21,210 --> 00:37:25,170 No, no, no. Yeah, that now the database is servers are beefy. 579 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,290 Yeah, they have they have horsepower, but the aggregators 580 00:37:28,290 --> 00:37:33,360 are all this is hosted on Linode. And Linode. Is, is 581 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,980 fantastic. Now, why not? 582 00:37:35,279 --> 00:37:37,589 Tell me about the difference between Linode and anything 583 00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:38,819 else? Why did you choose that? 584 00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:41,789 Well, I've had my I've had my personal stuff there for a 585 00:37:41,789 --> 00:37:45,839 while. And what I like about it is the pricing is predictable. 586 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,160 I've not told you about the latest AWS bill I 587 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,990 got. Oh, no. Is it bad? 588 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,100 Oh, my God. I don't want to tell you about it. Because I don't 589 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:01,590 want you. I don't want you to have to think about it. That was 590 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,040 that's for no agenda stuff. That's personal. As different. 591 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,770 As you know, we got search engine guys scanning my 592 00:38:07,770 --> 00:38:11,550 directory, and I had a chat with a couple of them. Yeah, we're 593 00:38:11,550 --> 00:38:13,170 like scan a little less, bro. 594 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,210 Okay, yeah. And you gave me give me too much. Think about it. 595 00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:20,700 And I'm sorry, I just wanted to say this. That's what we're 596 00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:23,490 trying to avoid. Like, No, I know, it's exactly what we want 597 00:38:23,490 --> 00:38:24,600 to avoid precisely 598 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,110 because AWS can kill you. Because it's not like it's this 599 00:38:28,110 --> 00:38:31,770 transit transaction. Right. It's because you get dinged for the 600 00:38:31,770 --> 00:38:35,040 transit, you get things for transactions, for requests. 601 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,670 Yeah, it's all this stuff that get all the auxilary stuff. So 602 00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:42,990 you may, if you have a low volume server on Linode, you may 603 00:38:42,990 --> 00:38:46,020 end up paying paying a little bit more. But you know, you're 604 00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:50,280 always going to pay no more than this. Which is like, it just 605 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,820 lets you sleep at night. So that's, that's why we chose it. 606 00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:57,450 And so we can, we can just spin up. Like with the aggregators, 607 00:38:57,450 --> 00:39:00,180 we can just clone new ones. And they're running on like, you 608 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:06,120 know, single core. Right? To get against this. They're just 609 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000 small, because all they're doing is just pulling in parsing feeds 610 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,340 all day, and then feeding it back into the database. Right. 611 00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:15,960 And then we've got, then we got the www if sort of front end 612 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,570 server on in there. And I did, I think there may there may be 613 00:39:21,570 --> 00:39:24,510 something else, but that's about that's roughly what we're where 614 00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:26,700 we're at right now. So on the upstream, 615 00:39:26,910 --> 00:39:30,300 I was just looking at the $1,000 donation, I'll just use his 616 00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:33,210 first name, because it's a good way to get our attention, 617 00:39:33,210 --> 00:39:37,260 obviously, and to send off some information. So Brian sent 618 00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:42,570 donated $1,000, and I cannot thank you enough, Brian. And he 619 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:45,180 said very happy to support this project think there can be a 620 00:39:45,180 --> 00:39:49,170 bunch of ways of building value using Blockchain tech. If you're 621 00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:52,710 ever interested in moving that direction, let me know. Yeah, 622 00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:58,080 the two things that popped up regarding that was IPFS. The 623 00:39:58,110 --> 00:40:02,730 interplanetary filing system. Um, and, you know, distributed 624 00:40:02,730 --> 00:40:09,270 hash tables, Blockchain as a lot of thinking and a lot of wishing 625 00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:15,240 for sure. And we've always had this in our minds. Really just 626 00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:20,010 make the index really, really distributed. Yeah. What have you 627 00:40:20,010 --> 00:40:20,460 got? What 628 00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:23,940 have you heard? Yeah. Yeah, same thing. IPFS is definitely going 629 00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:25,320 to have to be something we do. 630 00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:27,389 Now. We've been using that, but it's already integrated into the 631 00:40:27,389 --> 00:40:29,639 freedom controller. Yeah, yeah, we 632 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,570 know how to use it on sort of a simple level where we're just, 633 00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:37,140 you know, you're just posting things, posting OPML files is 634 00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:40,830 what we've been doing. And then just getting back and IPFS hash. 635 00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:45,030 And so if we could take, if we could take that, and 636 00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:48,600 can we just use the bandwidth? Just use the Cloudflare node? 637 00:40:49,770 --> 00:40:51,240 They have an IP Fs? Yeah, 638 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,850 I think it's ipfs.cloudflare.com. I think, 639 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,590 oh, yeah, IP Fs dot cloud layer, 640 00:40:58,620 --> 00:41:02,850 because we're, we're using Cloudflare as our as our caching 641 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,810 reverse proxy already, which has been, which has been great to 642 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:07,650 those guys are good. 643 00:41:08,490 --> 00:41:15,120 See IPFS gateway. Here you go. Oh, wonderful. Cloud flares read 644 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,020 only distributed web. We read only distributed web gateway 645 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:21,330 lets you access content stored on the interplanetary file 646 00:41:21,330 --> 00:41:23,820 system quickly and easily without downloading any special 647 00:41:23,820 --> 00:41:25,110 software. Well, I 648 00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:28,830 don't know. Did you see Did you see that Chrome. The chromium 649 00:41:28,830 --> 00:41:33,720 project has integrated his put the IPFS protocol scheme like, 650 00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:37,560 oh, no, I haven't I used to send there. I'm still using 651 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,510 dissenter. I like it so much. Yeah. Cloudflare dash ipfs.com. 652 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,660 Okay. Are you on a boat? 653 00:41:46,350 --> 00:41:49,650 No. Not sure exactly. What just passed Bob. 654 00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:55,860 Love both. Like, 655 00:41:55,890 --> 00:42:01,410 yeah, I'm floating. I'm floating on my house boat. No, 656 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:06,150 that's great. Hey, this is interesting. Simplify speed up 657 00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:09,540 and secure access to both the Aetherium network and the 658 00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:12,270 interplanetary file systems. Didn't know that doesn't 659 00:42:12,270 --> 00:42:14,700 Cloudflare to Yeah, so do those kind of work together? 660 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,820 Well, somebody was talking about smart contracts. 661 00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:20,280 Oh, well, that makes total sense. I mean, that stuff I want 662 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,700 to get into for sure. I would say if you're an IPFS developer, 663 00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:25,320 jump in? 664 00:42:25,830 --> 00:42:29,040 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, reach out or just get on the GitHub or 665 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,740 something like get involved? Because that's absolutely 666 00:42:31,740 --> 00:42:32,820 something we want to do. Yeah, I 667 00:42:32,820 --> 00:42:35,610 think that GitHub is the place to go. I mean, the email is just 668 00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:38,490 going to be so poor, that just 669 00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:40,710 what are you supposed to do through email anyway, I mean, 670 00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:44,340 like it, you can see, that's all you can do is set up something 671 00:42:44,340 --> 00:42:49,080 and then push it off to some other location like GitHub. So 672 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,820 it comes to code, I mean, probably, the GitHub is, is 673 00:42:53,820 --> 00:42:56,400 where to go. And I mean, she, she does an email, definitely 674 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,850 let us know that you know what you got. But I mean, really just 675 00:42:59,850 --> 00:43:03,030 jump in and start doing stuff is fine. Just start posting code 676 00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:07,350 and do whatever. And hopefully, I will be able to help that by 677 00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:12,600 starting to push up code. Like, I've just got to take the code 678 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,380 as it stands and split stuff out and just start putting those 679 00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:20,520 segments up on up on the GitHub repository, so people could see 680 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,130 it and sort sort of get an understanding of, of the way the 681 00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:26,280 back end works. Which, which is something else I know, you know, 682 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,790 we're wanting, we definitely want to post the whole index as 683 00:43:29,790 --> 00:43:32,850 a download. And initially, that'll probably be on 684 00:43:32,850 --> 00:43:37,860 archive.org. Unless somebody else has a better you know, big 685 00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:39,540 file download location. 686 00:43:39,570 --> 00:43:42,810 Yeah. What's the size? Now say that thing? What what size? What 687 00:43:42,810 --> 00:43:43,830 size you were looking at? 688 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,350 Well, without if you don't include that, if you don't 689 00:43:46,350 --> 00:43:50,340 include the episodes, then you it's it's manageable. I mean, 690 00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:53,700 it's the four gigs. If you include the episode, you're 691 00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:59,190 pushing, you know, 3035. So that, I guess what to decide, 692 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,820 maybe initially, we'll just push the feed list, right? You know, 693 00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:06,360 and then talk about or maybe as two separate downloads feed 694 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,950 list. What is one download and episodes as another? Yeah. Yeah. 695 00:44:11,310 --> 00:44:12,840 Well, it depends on how much I don't want to kill our 696 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,380 bandwidth. 697 00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:17,400 Yeah, because just that alone could be reasonably efficient at 698 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,190 30 to 35 gigs out can cost you money. Yeah. 699 00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:23,760 Yeah. And it's more it's more just like, it's gonna weld 700 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:24,540 everything up. So 701 00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:28,710 that Well, there you go. There's our instant IPFS application. 702 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,320 Yeah, that should be IPFS. Yeah, I'm not crazy. Does that make 703 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:34,500 sense? 704 00:44:34,649 --> 00:44:37,319 Well, I've not I've not seen anything that big of a PFS? Is 705 00:44:37,319 --> 00:44:42,089 it able to handle stuff like that? You're asking me? Yes. The 706 00:44:42,089 --> 00:44:47,339 offense expert. Sure, sure. You knew that Cloudflare had one 707 00:44:47,339 --> 00:44:48,239 therefore you're the ex Well, 708 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:51,120 this also seems like a torrent project. I mean, this that's 709 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,080 what Tor was made for. You know, that's that kind of stuff. All 710 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,660 of this has been solved. This is what I love so much about this 711 00:44:57,660 --> 00:45:00,540 project. So many of these issues have been solved. Have we just, 712 00:45:00,930 --> 00:45:03,990 you know, when and I was doing the same and I was sitting 713 00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:06,930 around bitching, like, we need to have some decent centralized 714 00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:09,450 naptime, and that's not named. And those guys, we got to do it. 715 00:45:09,450 --> 00:45:09,930 You sounded 716 00:45:09,930 --> 00:45:13,950 just like that. No. Honestly, I'm just setting your house and 717 00:45:13,950 --> 00:45:15,540 did that all the time. Kenny 718 00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:20,400 what I was doing. Exactly. And so yeah, yeah, here we are. We 719 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,630 just said screw it. Let's, let's let's get started. 720 00:45:26,580 --> 00:45:30,900 There's a couple of see both Fisher emailed in, he had a few 721 00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:33,870 questions. And these these are sort of representative of a lot 722 00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:38,580 of questions. He said, like any plans for a discord channel? No, 723 00:45:38,580 --> 00:45:41,580 that's not. It's just too. I can't handle real time right 724 00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:44,370 now. What are your infrastructure plans, we talked 725 00:45:44,370 --> 00:45:48,870 about the Linode, we actually do have some, we have a few Spot 726 00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:53,160 Instances in AWS, because those are dirt cheap. I don't know if 727 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,900 you know how Spot Instances work. But you can 728 00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:57,720 use them up and down as you need them, I guess? 729 00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:02,340 Well, you bid on time. And I'm willing to pay, let's say, point 730 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,630 04 cents per hour for this workload. And whenever they're, 731 00:46:06,810 --> 00:46:10,890 whenever their auction price level hits that mark, it'll spin 732 00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:14,130 your instance up and run until it goes above that rate again, 733 00:46:14,130 --> 00:46:16,950 and that'll stop. Right. So we're doing that for like 734 00:46:16,980 --> 00:46:20,850 crawling and that kind of thing. So we do have a few servers over 735 00:46:20,850 --> 00:46:25,350 there. And that is that's like cheap. Looks like exposed API's 736 00:46:25,350 --> 00:46:29,250 or rest HTTP? Yeah. So the API stuff, there's a lot of stuff 737 00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:34,530 going on and GitHub with that. And a lot of talk around the 738 00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:40,080 API, as it stands now not being quote unquote, restful. Meaning 739 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:46,650 that it's not returning. It's not, it's not compliant with 740 00:46:46,650 --> 00:46:50,130 what you would call a fully restful spec. So it's not 741 00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:56,520 returning HTTP status code. And in the endpoints are not exactly 742 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,600 what you would want. It's more, this is a very simplified, quote 743 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,800 unquote, REST API that we have right now. And it's really just 744 00:47:05,310 --> 00:47:10,800 wrote, this is V, it's v1 is 1.0, in the URL for a reason is 745 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,220 because it needed to be something simple, that everybody 746 00:47:14,220 --> 00:47:17,970 can kind of jump in, and not have to have a full blown 747 00:47:17,970 --> 00:47:22,590 RESTful client ready to go to handle it. Right. So that and 748 00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:26,010 the way we talked about it on GitHub the other day was, what 749 00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:29,580 would be best is if those guys are gonna help design sort of a 750 00:47:29,580 --> 00:47:35,640 1.1, or a 2.0, API spec for the more robust RESTful API. And 751 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,390 then the 1.0 spec will stick around for you know, forever, 752 00:47:39,390 --> 00:47:43,380 possibly, just to have sort of a lightweight spec, and a 753 00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:47,610 heavyweight spec to give each group whatever they need. 754 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,880 Because if you're just doing something with if you're doing 755 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,390 something simple with an html5 app, you may not be able to 756 00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:57,960 handle that for or just maybe too much right to handle like a 757 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,780 full blown full blast client. Yeah. Wasn't it simple? Yeah. So 758 00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:05,910 you may want something more simple. So I think that's kind 759 00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:08,430 of where we're aiming at on that. I'm gonna give you the 760 00:48:08,430 --> 00:48:15,900 whole load. Oh, God, please don't? How will you separate 761 00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:19,560 maintain independence? So that Amazon CloudFlare, blah, blah, 762 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,110 blah, can't shut the project down? I mean, I'm not really 763 00:48:22,110 --> 00:48:24,990 worried about about that. I mean, what that's what another 764 00:48:24,990 --> 00:48:29,400 reason why we picked, picked Linode is because a lot of 765 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,500 podcast projects are hosted there, from what I can tell 766 00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:34,620 already. And I mean, if that ever becomes an issue, I mean, 767 00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:36,750 that's just that's it. We'll cross that bridge when we get 768 00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:42,210 there, but not too worried about that. And the Oh, yeah, the E 769 00:48:42,210 --> 00:48:46,560 are the emails. And the emails look like crap. So if anybody's 770 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:52,680 really good at email templates, shoot them to me, cuz that's the 771 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,450 other thing UI, the UI design. The Oh, yeah, one piece of hate 772 00:48:57,450 --> 00:48:59,280 mail this week. That was like your website sucks. 773 00:49:01,170 --> 00:49:06,120 Yeah, well, yeah, it was. Yeah. We finally got something called 774 00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:10,290 Art. And that's still open and up for review, as far as I'm 775 00:49:10,290 --> 00:49:13,590 concerned, although I do kind of like the logo, you you cut out 776 00:49:13,590 --> 00:49:16,590 of it. It's like it actually looks kind of like that. Do you 777 00:49:16,590 --> 00:49:19,320 have a big version of that? So I can put it as the album mark for 778 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,830 the show. Oh, yeah, sure. Because I don't remember it was 779 00:49:22,830 --> 00:49:25,770 all over Twitter and it was all the new agenda people make an 780 00:49:25,770 --> 00:49:28,290 art which I did love them before it love them for Yeah, this 781 00:49:28,290 --> 00:49:31,170 one's pretty good. I like that. It's pretty good that random I'm 782 00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:33,210 kind of diggin it. What I like about it almost looks like a 783 00:49:33,210 --> 00:49:37,590 dude leaning forward. Yeah, you know, talking and receiving or 784 00:49:37,590 --> 00:49:39,180 both ways? I don't know. It's 785 00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:41,250 it has it looks like a mic too. 786 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,710 Yeah, no, it has all that it looks like an antenna a 787 00:49:43,710 --> 00:49:49,530 microphone. The Big Bob vibrating dildo has a bit of 788 00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:51,900 that look to it, familiar with the product. 789 00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:55,740 But if it looks like that, you know, 790 00:49:55,770 --> 00:50:00,240 I hear it's an outstanding product. You've heard heard from 791 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,150 friends, right? It's the podcast pounder. Everybody. That's our 792 00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:08,099 show today. 793 00:50:09,630 --> 00:50:12,300 Okay, you got it, writing it down right now. 794 00:50:14,429 --> 00:50:19,589 Some see? Yeah, that's all he had for this question. But like 795 00:50:19,619 --> 00:50:25,019 people sending code, and just general input is exactly what we 796 00:50:25,019 --> 00:50:30,149 want. I mean, that's just perfect for the whole this whole 797 00:50:30,149 --> 00:50:33,089 thing. Because what we're trying I think I've said this in in 798 00:50:33,089 --> 00:50:37,199 emails about five times this week is we're building this in 799 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:42,149 the open. And what that means is, like, we are building the 800 00:50:42,449 --> 00:50:47,159 building the the things that people need, and if you don't 801 00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:50,189 know that people need it, then you can't build it. Otherwise, 802 00:50:50,189 --> 00:50:53,219 we're just going to end up building stuff that we want. But 803 00:50:53,219 --> 00:50:57,179 that not might not be exactly what's needed exists. So we got 804 00:50:57,179 --> 00:51:01,919 to know those things. Okay, for one, I'll tell you my thing 805 00:51:02,759 --> 00:51:08,639 about imposter way, I guess you call an imposter feeds. You had 806 00:51:08,639 --> 00:51:14,189 an idea the other day in which I liked. And then so my idea was 807 00:51:14,249 --> 00:51:18,659 just to get throw this out there for people to chew on was, what 808 00:51:18,659 --> 00:51:24,389 about a set of API endpoints that could help machine learning 809 00:51:24,389 --> 00:51:29,369 and AI? Guys sort through it, hook into the index and start 810 00:51:29,369 --> 00:51:34,019 finding things that look like imposter feeds? I don't know how 811 00:51:34,019 --> 00:51:37,559 any of that works. I'm not an AI guy. All I know, is that like, I 812 00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:40,649 know, we had at least one AI guy that did send us an email that 813 00:51:40,649 --> 00:51:43,859 said he was doing something with GPT three, I think, yeah, yeah, 814 00:51:43,859 --> 00:51:43,889 I 815 00:51:43,890 --> 00:51:45,960 did remain. I read that too. Yeah. 816 00:51:46,410 --> 00:51:49,350 So I mean, like, what endpoints do you need to make something 817 00:51:49,350 --> 00:51:53,250 like that happen? Tell me and we'll, we'll put them up there. 818 00:51:53,340 --> 00:51:56,160 And if you tell me exactly what you want, we'll give it to you. 819 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,310 And then you start playing around with it. And maybe you 820 00:51:59,310 --> 00:52:02,580 can just start pop, you know, surfacing some potential 821 00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:06,960 imposter feeds, and then we could put them up on a website, 822 00:52:06,990 --> 00:52:09,990 we can list them and shame them. Mina say, 823 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,740 yeah, absolutely. If we could, that could be a whole business 824 00:52:13,740 --> 00:52:17,430 just doing that. Yeah. Someone could actually have a business 825 00:52:17,460 --> 00:52:21,630 just finding crap that you may or may not want to do stop or 826 00:52:21,630 --> 00:52:24,150 intervene or do something. That's imperfect service, 827 00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:25,560 perfect service 828 00:52:25,650 --> 00:52:30,030 podcast that you suck.com It's just a big list of people who 829 00:52:30,030 --> 00:52:34,620 suck. Yeah. The so that was my day, I think you had an idea for 830 00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:38,850 like a, like, some surfacing on on a website. 831 00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:43,980 I don't remember what it did I write this, I must have texted, 832 00:52:44,130 --> 00:52:47,550 you texted to take me home. I don't remember what I said. You 833 00:52:47,550 --> 00:52:49,590 gotta write that down. Man. It's here on gone. 834 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:51,780 You get to me, I did? 835 00:52:52,050 --> 00:52:56,100 Well, this is true. I'm just looking at the GitHub is cool, 836 00:52:56,100 --> 00:52:59,190 man, a lot of stuff coming in people. You know, I'm not a 837 00:52:59,190 --> 00:53:02,490 developer, but I can see how GitHub a good GitHub, I can see 838 00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:07,950 how it can be a real social thing. Right? With a lot of 839 00:53:07,950 --> 00:53:10,440 interaction. Yeah, that's cool. That's very cool. 840 00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:14,730 Well, you know, the, so those are the real, those are the 841 00:53:14,730 --> 00:53:17,460 things that I see that people can jump in immediately with, 842 00:53:17,550 --> 00:53:22,980 in, like, you are design. If, if you if you look at our website, 843 00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:28,680 it any of them and it makes you shudder. You know, don't, yes, 844 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,940 fix it fast. It may may, or you may, Adam and I are neither one 845 00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:36,870 of us or have a design bone in our body. So you get what you 846 00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:37,230 guys 847 00:53:37,230 --> 00:53:43,350 don't even know it looks good. So it's nothing at all. And when 848 00:53:43,350 --> 00:53:46,350 you have a project, this is this is what I this is what I like to 849 00:53:46,350 --> 00:53:48,360 do. And I've been struggling with a little bit because I just 850 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,300 can't keep track of but maybe the GitHub is the place, if you 851 00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:54,900 got a project like the mastodon bot, if you got, you know, 852 00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:58,020 whatever it is, let's find a place for it on the GitHub, so I 853 00:53:58,020 --> 00:54:03,300 can just go in there. And I can talk about it on social media 854 00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:06,240 and other places where where I can push stuff out, I'd like to 855 00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:11,190 have a page for normies like myself, this is Oh, look at the 856 00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:13,770 cool shit we're doing with this index, so people can just see 857 00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:18,390 it, I just need to know what your project is. So I can I can 858 00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:20,880 get to it. I can point people to it, and I can describe what it 859 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,360 does. That would be very helpful for me, because I obviously 860 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,850 can't do anything, I can't do any of the stuff we're actually 861 00:54:26,850 --> 00:54:27,630 talking about. 862 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:32,490 If you have if you have a GitHub, you know account name, 863 00:54:32,490 --> 00:54:35,580 and you just want to shoot it to me and have me put you into the, 864 00:54:35,970 --> 00:54:39,360 into the into the teams or whatever. It just emailed to me 865 00:54:39,390 --> 00:54:42,540 and you're, you'll, I'll stick you in there and then you can, 866 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,000 you know, post comments or moderator do whatever. And 867 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,990 that's the more the merrier. 868 00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:53,670 Coming back around to publishing. Want to remind you 869 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:55,950 that Pub Sub something of that nature. 870 00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,750 Yeah, well as a web sub is what I'm gonna do. Yeah, well, it's 871 00:55:00,750 --> 00:55:04,710 Pub Sub hubbub was the initial spec. Do you remember that? 872 00:55:04,980 --> 00:55:08,250 Yes, I should do it's taken me back. It's crazy. 873 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,570 Yes, it's Pub Sub hubbub. But nothing has been renamed a web 874 00:55:12,570 --> 00:55:20,550 sub is one of the indie web standards. And with if I, if I 875 00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:26,010 understand the history, right? I think RSS cloud came before. 876 00:55:26,910 --> 00:55:27,660 Pope's Oh, I 877 00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:32,550 think so I think so. In fact, because, as would be typical 878 00:55:32,550 --> 00:55:36,450 with anything Dave Winer invents, he has a great idea 879 00:55:36,450 --> 00:55:39,540 does a fantastic implementation, and everybody goes off and does 880 00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,320 their own version of it, which is, yeah. And by the way, 881 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,440 that's, that's the thing that I think was very destructive for 882 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:51,240 RSS is when we became Adam versus RSS. And there was all 883 00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:54,000 this jihadi stuff about it all this, you know, just pure 884 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,710 religion. It's like, I hope we can stay away from that. 885 00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:04,170 Yeah, you know, in this funny because people just don't look 886 00:56:04,170 --> 00:56:08,010 into the iTunes spec. And it clearly says in the iTunes spec, 887 00:56:08,460 --> 00:56:13,440 that a pot a valid podcast feed must be an RSS feed. That's got 888 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:19,080 to be RSS, not Adam. But I can absolutely tell you 100%, there 889 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,470 are plenty of Atom feeds in the iTunes index, and they just 890 00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:26,460 parse them, and they work. And so yeah, and they work. So yeah, 891 00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:30,690 the pups of hubbub or web sub is what I'm putting in right now. 892 00:56:31,110 --> 00:56:32,970 And it's gonna, you know, it's necessary. 893 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,550 What will that do? What what benefit? Does it give us what is 894 00:56:35,580 --> 00:56:36,720 what happens with that? 895 00:56:37,140 --> 00:56:41,340 Well, there you have various hubs. That's me. Now the drama 896 00:56:41,340 --> 00:56:47,790 to take you away chasing the boat is Jason. There are various 897 00:56:47,790 --> 00:56:52,890 hubs, of which I know about three off the top of my head, 898 00:56:52,890 --> 00:57:00,060 they're super feeder, Google has one. And there's one, I think, I 899 00:57:00,060 --> 00:57:04,830 forgot the name of one of the podcast network guys run one, I 900 00:57:04,830 --> 00:57:07,050 can't remember which one, it is off top my head, but I saw it in 901 00:57:07,050 --> 00:57:11,490 their feet. So when you have a hub, the hub becomes the central 902 00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:16,020 point for subscribing. And for pushing to then what happens is, 903 00:57:16,290 --> 00:57:21,360 if you see a feed that has a hub listed in it, then you can say, 904 00:57:22,140 --> 00:57:26,010 you can ping the hub and say I want to be notified whenever 905 00:57:26,010 --> 00:57:32,730 this feed updates. And when ever the feed changes, the publisher 906 00:57:32,730 --> 00:57:35,340 of the feed will also ping the hub and say, Hey, I've just 907 00:57:35,340 --> 00:57:38,280 updated it. And then you get the notice without having to crawl 908 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:44,940 it. Nice. So you instant notification. Now, the thing 909 00:57:44,970 --> 00:57:49,320 that going back, so because freedom driller supported our 910 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:55,080 SaaS cloud, you know, 10 years ago. And I think that was pretty 911 00:57:55,290 --> 00:57:59,160 puffs of hubbub. If I'm not mistaken, I believe so the thing 912 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,870 that always Yeah, I think the thing that always was a bother, 913 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:07,230 even though it works well. The thing is always a bother is you 914 00:58:07,230 --> 00:58:11,880 never know, am I not getting an update? Because the feed didn't 915 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,550 update? Or am I not getting an update? Because the RSS cloud 916 00:58:14,550 --> 00:58:20,400 hub is not sending me anything? Right down? Right? So you had 917 00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:25,290 your it's sort of unfortunate thing that you can't it's like 918 00:58:25,290 --> 00:58:29,280 an argument from Silence type of deal where you can't be sure of 919 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,390 what why you're not getting a paying. So we even though you 920 00:58:33,390 --> 00:58:37,350 have public website up and running, you still have to 921 00:58:37,350 --> 00:58:41,730 continue to crawl on the back end, of course, right? So we're 922 00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:44,640 gonna have to have a it doesn't really doesn't help you that 923 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,180 much, in my opinion, with infrastructure, because you 924 00:58:48,180 --> 00:58:50,040 still have to have that infrastructure running all the 925 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:56,130 time. But but it does help to with with timeliness, 926 00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:00,120 you know, what we need, just dreaming like a nut job. You 927 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,730 almost need like the infrastructure of Bitcoin, where 928 00:59:06,270 --> 00:59:09,480 people who are doing the mining, which would be our version of 929 00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:15,180 aggregating, somehow get some value out of spitting out that 930 00:59:15,180 --> 00:59:19,050 information within the network. And, and it's distributed. So 931 00:59:19,050 --> 00:59:22,950 people are doing these pieces all over the place. I know. It's 932 00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:24,600 a druggie type comment, but 933 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,710 it just you're told that proof of work. 934 00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,790 Yeah. Work is obviously different from from what I'm 935 00:59:32,790 --> 00:59:36,390 talking about, but they're doing actual work. Yeah. Which in my 936 00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:40,140 mind, could be aggregation in a distributed format, not that 937 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:41,880 it's necessary. I'm just throwing it out. 938 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:48,510 Yeah, no, I like that a lot. And the distributed nature is and 939 00:59:48,510 --> 00:59:51,630 that would be so nice to have some, essentially a dedicated 940 00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:57,270 network for aggregator Yeah, yeah, that'd be wonderful. So 941 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,040 but anyway, that so the Pub Sub stuff is something that I'm 942 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,160 putting in right now. And I would have been in, it would 943 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,000 have been in a week ago, if not for the aggregator baloney that 944 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:09,630 I had to deal with. 945 01:00:09,659 --> 01:00:11,339 You want to talk about that? Because you went through 946 01:00:11,339 --> 01:00:16,379 something fun? Yeah, come on, man. Come on warts and all. 947 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:23,880 So, okay, I'll give an I'll give the quick overview here. So said 948 01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:29,250 last Friday night, I had error. Last Friday, I added a new data 949 01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:34,170 point in the newsfeeds table, is what have we been doing so far? 950 01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:39,750 For the you know, all these years has been taking the last 951 01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:44,940 update out of the channel. And if there if, if less, if there's 952 01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:49,890 a last update element listed in the channel of the RSS feed, and 953 01:00:49,890 --> 01:00:53,670 we just we use, we hang on to that value. And then as you 954 01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:58,140 parse the feed, then most recent item time, the pub date of the 955 01:00:58,140 --> 01:01:02,310 individual items themselves, if there's one, if those if those 956 01:01:02,340 --> 01:01:06,150 are listed, which they don't, a lot of times they are not. But 957 01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:11,520 if those values exist, then the pub date in the item, the most 958 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,060 recent one, overrides the value of the pub date. 959 01:01:15,570 --> 01:01:16,440 If it's younger, 960 01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:18,360 well, no matter what, 961 01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:21,570 even younger girl Oh, of course. Okay. Gotcha. Makes sense. 962 01:01:21,930 --> 01:01:24,300 Because it's considered authority. Right. Right. Right. 963 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:32,670 And the reason is, because a lot of RSS generators, will will 964 01:01:32,670 --> 01:01:37,860 automatically update their pub date. And last build date. 965 01:01:38,130 --> 01:01:42,450 timestamps. Just when you refresh the feed. Ooh, so it's 966 01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:46,950 server end. Yes, it's funny, sir. You can just wrong, you can 967 01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:50,460 just sit there and hit. Yeah, you can refresh 10 times and 968 01:01:50,460 --> 01:01:52,170 you'll just get a new timestamp every time 969 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,480 that's almost like so people want to be at the top of the 970 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,620 stack by doing that. It almost seems nefarious, like kind of 971 01:01:59,310 --> 01:02:02,070 sleazy. Yeah, may not be meant that way. But 972 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,710 I don't know. I can't decide if it's on purpose. Or if it's just 973 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,650 that they don't understand the spec. I don't know. But it's 974 01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:13,980 some big ones. Like, there's a couple of big publishers that do 975 01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:18,180 that. So that becomes the update. And the challenges 976 01:02:18,180 --> 01:02:22,710 becomes almost irrelevant at that point, right. So the items 977 01:02:22,740 --> 01:02:26,670 themselves, we take that that as authoritative. But I still want 978 01:02:26,670 --> 01:02:29,760 to hang on to that let to the pub date channel pub date, just 979 01:02:29,850 --> 01:02:33,240 because you can use it for comparisons. When you're trying 980 01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:37,290 to decide if a feed is updated or not, it's just so which I 981 01:02:37,290 --> 01:02:40,950 have to stop here and just say aggregating is as much an 982 01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:47,640 exercise and heuristics, as it is about actually parsing, 983 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,720 right. Because yes, this is structured data. But structured 984 01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:56,550 data doesn't mean that you get perfect content. Structured data 985 01:02:56,550 --> 01:03:01,080 just means that it has to be arranged in a certain way. But 986 01:03:01,140 --> 01:03:04,650 the data that you get can still be just garbage. It's just well 987 01:03:04,650 --> 01:03:05,730 structured garbage 988 01:03:05,790 --> 01:03:09,150 and well structured garbage that I've seen it kill apps, I've 989 01:03:09,150 --> 01:03:13,080 seen all kinds of weird things, even just on the ampersand in a 990 01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,010 title tag. 991 01:03:14,670 --> 01:03:19,170 You had that the other you had a bad entity, character into data 992 01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:21,900 came through in your HTML Day of the Day exporting the show notes 993 01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:23,820 and you message me 994 01:03:23,850 --> 01:03:25,920 Yeah, was stuck, wouldn't come out. 995 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,310 I mean, I haven't seen that in years. But one bad character was 996 01:03:29,310 --> 01:03:29,970 like, boom, 997 01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:35,040 this is this is by the way, the nucleus of the atom curry, Dave 998 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:42,210 Jones relationship is broke. I'm actually pretty good at breaking 999 01:03:42,210 --> 01:03:45,120 everything. If it can break. I'm the guy that's gonna find it 1000 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,130 like, oh, I don't know what I did. But I broke it. 1001 01:03:47,609 --> 01:03:50,579 That's perfect. It's perfect. I hand you this beautiful thing. 1002 01:03:50,579 --> 01:03:52,709 And then it's like, here's all the bugs. Isn't that 1003 01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:55,680 the user you want, though? The one who breaks everything quite 1004 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,160 glad you're not 100%. Good. I'm happy. I'm happy to oblige. 1005 01:04:00,270 --> 01:04:03,360 So what I've done is added another data point in the 1006 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,040 newsfeed table where we could track most recent item time 1007 01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:14,790 instead of just overriding the pub date, value. And using that, 1008 01:04:15,450 --> 01:04:19,650 as you want to see them both. So I did that. And in order to have 1009 01:04:19,650 --> 01:04:25,440 that populate, I'm like, so I'm just going to set off a new 1010 01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,760 index of, of about half half the table that didn't have it yet. 1011 01:04:30,510 --> 01:04:36,000 So triggered off near the index is about 500,000 feeds. Well, 1012 01:04:36,030 --> 01:04:40,560 going, going back again, this has been something that I've 1013 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,820 needed to fix for a long time, is the way that the puller and 1014 01:04:44,820 --> 01:04:50,640 the polar and the parser are two separate things. The polar which 1015 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,750 is called aggravate downloads, the downloads the feeds, the 1016 01:04:54,750 --> 01:04:59,010 parser, which is called party time, go in up pick these up on 1017 01:04:59,010 --> 01:05:03,540 GitHub did It It parses the FIE the content out of the feed and 1018 01:05:03,540 --> 01:05:06,840 sticks in the database, or the pull the polar when it pulls the 1019 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,470 feed, it takes the content, the raw content of the feed and put 1020 01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:13,680 it in the database too. So that when the parser comes along, it 1021 01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,110 can grab it out of there. And the reason we did that is 1022 01:05:16,110 --> 01:05:20,940 because if you're if you have multiple servers, it's easier to 1023 01:05:20,940 --> 01:05:24,180 share. You don't have to start bouncing files back and forth. 1024 01:05:24,510 --> 01:05:25,920 Right. But 1025 01:05:26,070 --> 01:05:28,470 so you got into survival of the fittest mode. 1026 01:05:28,980 --> 01:05:32,250 Well, what happens is when you have when you're pushing 1027 01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:37,680 potentially 20 megabyte RSS feeds, what and that's what some 1028 01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:37,890 of these 1029 01:05:37,980 --> 01:05:41,550 20 megabyte Rs? Well, there's no rule, I don't think there's 1030 01:05:41,550 --> 01:05:43,860 there. There's no limitation on size. 1031 01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:46,890 There's some there's some in the database steps, how much and how 1032 01:05:46,890 --> 01:05:47,880 much I could afford 1033 01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,430 serving it from AWS, I learned that lesson 1034 01:05:50,790 --> 01:05:55,140 ooks. I don't know how people get away with having a 25 1035 01:05:55,140 --> 01:05:56,520 megabyte RSS feed, 1036 01:05:56,730 --> 01:05:57,870 it flashed up everything. 1037 01:05:58,470 --> 01:06:02,220 I don't get it. But but we had in there. And so as soon as you 1038 01:06:02,220 --> 01:06:05,670 start putting in those things in the database, it gets rid the 1039 01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:10,890 inserts get really, really slow and really, really slow, right? 1040 01:06:11,130 --> 01:06:18,420 So what happened was overnight, the app, the polar, was going 1041 01:06:18,420 --> 01:06:21,060 faster than the parser. And the parser just couldn't keep up. So 1042 01:06:21,060 --> 01:06:25,770 I wake up the next morning. And the parser is just like cron 1043 01:06:25,770 --> 01:06:29,160 just can't handle it. It's toast. Yeah, it's all backed up. 1044 01:06:29,610 --> 01:06:34,320 So all hands on deck added just re re engineer the whole way, 1045 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,260 the thing the whole way, the thing, those two pieces 1046 01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:40,560 communicated with each other. And just using files, which is 1047 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:46,800 fine. But that means that if you're using files, each 1048 01:06:46,890 --> 01:06:51,000 aggregator has to have an S to have a node ID so that basically 1049 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,780 have an ID number, so that they can so that the other 1050 01:06:54,780 --> 01:06:57,900 aggregators won't walk all over. So they know what's pulling our 1051 01:06:58,050 --> 01:07:01,800 database. Right, right. Yeah. Well, that took like, kind of a 1052 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:02,610 couple of days. 1053 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:10,080 I'll bet I must have been fun. No. This brings us to frequently 1054 01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,860 asked question, which we've already partially answered, 1055 01:07:13,860 --> 01:07:17,670 looking at our potential roadmap. People are saying, hey, 1056 01:07:17,670 --> 01:07:21,030 you know, you guys, you guys, nice guys. But are you going to 1057 01:07:21,030 --> 01:07:23,310 be able to be up for my app? You're going to be able up for 1058 01:07:23,310 --> 01:07:26,340 my what I'm offering, you're going to be able to service me 1059 01:07:26,340 --> 01:07:29,730 what? What guarantees? 1060 01:07:31,380 --> 01:07:36,750 Yeah. I mean, I feel, you know, I feel good about I feel good 1061 01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:41,490 about where we are. And there's, there's clearly no, you know, 1062 01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:45,390 there's no SLA, there's no guaranteed uptime. But you know, 1063 01:07:45,390 --> 01:07:49,650 you don't get that through Apple either. You don't get you don't 1064 01:07:49,650 --> 01:07:52,320 get any SLAs from any of these, any of these people, if you're 1065 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:57,060 picking an index. If you're and you're just sort of hanging off 1066 01:07:57,060 --> 01:08:01,890 that index, with your app. There's no guarantees anywhere 1067 01:08:01,890 --> 01:08:05,190 you go. Right. So from that standpoint, 1068 01:08:05,850 --> 01:08:07,170 so how are we better? 1069 01:08:08,010 --> 01:08:12,270 Yeah, are we? I don't know. I mean, at this at this point, I 1070 01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:15,540 can't claim that we're, that we're gonna have better uptime 1071 01:08:15,540 --> 01:08:20,040 or anything like that. But you know, that's a, that's something 1072 01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:24,780 to talk about in the future as we go forward. If people say no, 1073 01:08:25,050 --> 01:08:29,610 I don't know of any other services that offer SLAs or 1074 01:08:29,610 --> 01:08:31,650 anything like that. Maybe Maybe that's something we could do. 1075 01:08:32,970 --> 01:08:35,880 You know, for maybe that's a paid? I don't know. Yeah, I 1076 01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,340 think the long term answers, obviously, distributing that 1077 01:08:38,340 --> 01:08:41,820 into some kind of DHT or something where it just can't go 1078 01:08:41,820 --> 01:08:45,690 down, because it's always there. But Apple. And this is something 1079 01:08:45,690 --> 01:08:49,140 that's cropped up in the past week or two. And a lot of people 1080 01:08:49,140 --> 01:08:55,440 use iCloud for email. And one of their SMTP servers has been 1081 01:08:55,440 --> 01:09:00,780 listed on a UBL block list. Really, and you know, people I 1082 01:09:00,780 --> 01:09:05,310 can send you email now, when Mark void zero when he redid my 1083 01:09:05,310 --> 01:09:09,030 mail server, he put all that shit in all the SPF, he said, 1084 01:09:09,060 --> 01:09:12,240 we're either you want to be on my server, this is how we do it. 1085 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,070 Okay, yeah, do it all the demark all that stuff. And it's really 1086 01:09:17,070 --> 01:09:20,850 interesting to see how much fraud abuse and bullcrap goes 1087 01:09:20,850 --> 01:09:26,070 on. Once you put in all the protocols, which I'm not a 1088 01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:30,120 proponent necessarily of all of that, but so he also has the 1089 01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,050 block list. And yeah, there it is. Apple UBL block was so of 1090 01:09:34,050 --> 01:09:38,130 course, I can put it in an exception. But, you know, Apple 1091 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,210 should at least have some way to escalate this issue to them. 1092 01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:47,280 You're not going to do it on, you know, on feedback.apple.com 1093 01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,400 Because no one lives there. Never seen a living person 1094 01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,900 online from Apple. Yeah, but that's like a huge problem. Now 1095 01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:57,210 it's like, come on, people. 1096 01:09:57,660 --> 01:10:01,530 Oh, yeah. I'm a sysadmin. I'm in office 360 Five goes goes down. 1097 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:06,840 I mean, at least once a month for an hour or more. So, I mean, 1098 01:10:07,290 --> 01:10:12,240 in the world we live in me. Can we guarantee 100% uptime? No, 1099 01:10:12,780 --> 01:10:15,960 no, I'm not even going to try to guarantee that. But the thing 1100 01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:20,700 that we, you know, that we can say is that we care about this 1101 01:10:20,700 --> 01:10:24,090 service. It's our base what we're doing, people are 1102 01:10:24,090 --> 01:10:27,960 supporting it. And if it's down, and I can guarantee you that I'm 1103 01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,010 working, you know, if it's down, I'm working on it. So like, 1104 01:10:32,250 --> 01:10:36,150 yeah, there's, you know, I think, I think Marco overcast, I 1105 01:10:36,150 --> 01:10:38,850 think they had some downtime the other day. Oh, really? Yeah, 1106 01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,760 things are not in the when it comes to servers and comes to 1107 01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,420 that kind of thing, things around 100%. But we we do backup 1108 01:10:45,420 --> 01:10:50,400 a lot. And I would say this, as far as in sysadmin, speak, our 1109 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,240 RTO are returned to Operation Tom is, you know, it, let's just 1110 01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,270 say if there's a complete disaster, the thing everything 1111 01:10:57,270 --> 01:11:00,660 is constructed fairly simplistically. And it's loosely 1112 01:11:00,660 --> 01:11:05,490 coupled. So I'm thinking of worst case scenario. RTO is 1113 01:11:05,490 --> 01:11:09,900 probably 12 hours. And we could be back up and running on it, 1114 01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,300 you know, even on a different host if, if necessary. 1115 01:11:12,420 --> 01:11:16,530 I'll reiterate what I said in the first episode. At more than 1116 01:11:16,530 --> 01:11:19,260 10 years of working with you everything you've ever built, 1117 01:11:19,260 --> 01:11:24,750 server based, the downtime has been increased mean, maybe maybe 1118 01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:29,880 what in 10 years, maybe 10 times that there's been an issue. That 1119 01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:34,350 was a showstopper issue. And, and what the way you construct 1120 01:11:34,350 --> 01:11:37,470 these things I said that on the first episode, is if something's 1121 01:11:37,470 --> 01:11:41,730 wrong, I know that Dave can go in and three minutes later, it's 1122 01:11:41,730 --> 01:11:44,670 like a couple keystrokes. And he's brought something back from 1123 01:11:44,670 --> 01:11:48,270 the dead, which works again. And I know that's weird. That's the 1124 01:11:48,270 --> 01:11:51,480 way you construct stuff because your your your SIS admin, a dude 1125 01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:54,450 named Ben, you know, your your guy who knows that you've got to 1126 01:11:54,450 --> 01:11:56,910 get your office back up and running no matter what even if 1127 01:11:56,910 --> 01:11:59,970 you have to sacrifice some other features or something just to 1128 01:11:59,970 --> 01:12:01,350 keep it working. So it's 1129 01:12:01,410 --> 01:12:04,170 Yeah, and I can post those scripts that we use to like if 1130 01:12:04,260 --> 01:12:09,600 they're because each, the critical servers will each have 1131 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,140 a restore from AWS script associated with them. So for 1132 01:12:13,140 --> 01:12:18,120 backing up to AWS, the restore from AWS is basically just a 1133 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:22,200 shell script, and I drop in the last backup, right, bring it 1134 01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,770 right back, it sucks it down rebuilds the server, and like it 1135 01:12:25,770 --> 01:12:28,950 can be back up and running fairly quick. Now, the one thing 1136 01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:32,820 that we're not doing, and this was a RTO of like, 12 hours, if 1137 01:12:32,820 --> 01:12:35,640 we're talking about complete disaster, that we just lose the 1138 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,210 database or something like that, right? We're not I'm not backing 1139 01:12:39,210 --> 01:12:43,110 up episodes, the episodes table, every one of those would have to 1140 01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:46,620 be re parsed. They basically had to be re indexed. And we can do 1141 01:12:46,650 --> 01:12:50,220 reindex. Right. So we'd have to pull on the parson again. So 1142 01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:52,260 that could take that could take half a day. 1143 01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:55,560 Well, we're doing something very unique here. And it feels like 1144 01:12:55,560 --> 01:13:00,120 people, not the not the core. And obviously of Linux 1145 01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:05,100 community, you have lots of cool projects on GitHub. But we're 1146 01:13:05,130 --> 01:13:08,370 we're doing something where it's a total throwback, whenever I 1147 01:13:08,370 --> 01:13:11,970 tell the story, people who really aren't involved in what 1148 01:13:11,970 --> 01:13:14,700 I'm doing at that level. They say, Oh, it's kind of like the 1149 01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:16,800 daily source code and what you're doing back then you're 1150 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,790 just trying to get everything rolling. So yes, exactly. We 1151 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,600 while we are a partnership and official organized partnership, 1152 01:13:25,650 --> 01:13:29,820 this whole idea is going back to the the origins of how we used 1153 01:13:29,820 --> 01:13:33,450 to get stuff done on the internet. And that's when 1154 01:13:33,450 --> 01:13:36,630 everybody on the internet was a de facto a developer, you could 1155 01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:40,350 not you could not really use it without having some command line 1156 01:13:40,350 --> 01:13:42,450 skills at minimum. At minimum. 1157 01:13:43,050 --> 01:13:46,170 I had to you had to install your you had install your dos driver 1158 01:13:46,170 --> 01:13:47,100 for your network card. 1159 01:13:48,990 --> 01:13:52,800 Oh my god. Oh, that takes me back. What was that? What was 1160 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:57,210 that other protocol before before basic became TCP IP? What 1161 01:13:57,210 --> 01:13:57,720 was the? 1162 01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,200 Well, I know I'm an old Novell guy. I 1163 01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,000 don't know. No, no, no. 1164 01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,100 And it was there's no protocol called SPX, 1165 01:14:05,250 --> 01:14:06,120 SPX. 1166 01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:11,730 Oh my god. Well, you remember. Before SMTP I think it was a UU 1167 01:14:11,730 --> 01:14:14,250 ID was a Mail Transfer Protocol. 1168 01:14:14,250 --> 01:14:19,800 Yeah. user to user. Yeah. Was it Unix the Unix or user? Yeah, I 1169 01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,590 can't remember what it acronym was. I don't remember. I don't 1170 01:14:22,590 --> 01:14:25,080 remember what yeah, when I first got on the internet I had to 1171 01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:32,940 dial up into into a shell account, fire up a PPTP 1172 01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:39,060 connection. And then, and then open it PPP stack on my, on my 1173 01:14:39,060 --> 01:14:43,950 Mac my Mac Plus, with a huge 20 megabyte external scuzzy drive. 1174 01:14:44,220 --> 01:14:47,640 Whoo. Oh, nice. Yeah, I got scuzzy cable Stillson. I 1175 01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,520 still have I still find I found a scuzzy cable the other day I 1176 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:55,170 held on to that but that it was massive, huge box. 20 megabytes. 1177 01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:55,980 It was great. It's like a 1178 01:14:55,980 --> 01:15:01,380 freaking where they they call the we used to have twin X For 1179 01:15:01,470 --> 01:15:05,340 now, if you remember twin x, it was like this big. It was our 1180 01:15:05,340 --> 01:15:09,330 old terminals, terminals for like 50 to 50 terminals for IBM 1181 01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:12,420 servers. So we had this huge twin x. And then we had these 1182 01:15:12,420 --> 01:15:17,130 two network segments in our in the office. And if one if 1183 01:15:17,130 --> 01:15:22,050 anybody ever if one if one device or if one day somebody 1184 01:15:22,050 --> 01:15:24,750 pulled the Terminator off of one of the lines 1185 01:15:27,090 --> 01:15:31,200 down you had to have the Terminator. Yeah. Well, then we 1186 01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,750 had the member Apple Apple talk. 1187 01:15:34,860 --> 01:15:37,350 Let's say I wasn't a Mac guy, then I was a Windows eight, you 1188 01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:37,710 basically 1189 01:15:37,710 --> 01:15:44,730 plugged a telephone line in. It had an RJ 45 Jack, what at 145 I 1190 01:15:44,730 --> 01:15:48,810 forget what that 11 rj 11. You just plug it right in. And you 1191 01:15:48,810 --> 01:15:52,800 had like a little, you'd do a little ring network at home with 1192 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,890 phone line, which it kind of worked. It was interested in 1193 01:15:55,890 --> 01:15:57,990 the last one in the chain have to have the terminator or 1194 01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:59,640 whatever. No, no, at that 1195 01:15:59,639 --> 01:16:02,579 point that Apple talk, dongles did all the work, I think, I 1196 01:16:02,579 --> 01:16:08,459 think I think good times. Nice. So in addition, if, if you're 1197 01:16:08,459 --> 01:16:11,699 just someone who has a great idea for a podcast experience, 1198 01:16:11,729 --> 01:16:15,149 the way a player could work, or a widget or an app or some 1199 01:16:15,149 --> 01:16:19,739 function, send it to animate podcast index.org, or Adam 1200 01:16:19,739 --> 01:16:22,589 mccurry.com In that case, but it'd be easier that I can start 1201 01:16:22,589 --> 01:16:26,309 filtering it so I can keep these ideas separate. You know, Dave, 1202 01:16:26,309 --> 01:16:28,229 and I will bring it up, and we'll see if we can find other 1203 01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:34,379 people to implement. That's the idea is truly the three pillars 1204 01:16:34,379 --> 01:16:37,739 of podcasting, the podcast creators, the producers who make 1205 01:16:37,739 --> 01:16:39,719 and by the way, you can be multiple of these people at the 1206 01:16:39,719 --> 01:16:46,049 same time. The, the the listener, the audience, who 1207 01:16:46,049 --> 01:16:50,369 really know what they want, they haven't probably had a place to 1208 01:16:50,369 --> 01:16:55,169 tell anybody. So we'd like to be that place. And then we have the 1209 01:16:55,169 --> 01:16:59,129 forgotten man and woman who were who were who were bringing this 1210 01:16:59,129 --> 01:17:03,239 tool toolbox and this lunchbox to their table, which is the 1211 01:17:03,239 --> 01:17:08,399 developer of podcast apps. And that's when I think back to the 1212 01:17:08,699 --> 01:17:12,359 events I think I saw Andrew Gromit ping me on Twitter. He 1213 01:17:12,359 --> 01:17:16,259 was really Yeah, Andrew was the original guy with with iPod or, 1214 01:17:16,859 --> 01:17:20,519 Oh, cool. iPod or lemon. I think he started I can't remember 1215 01:17:20,519 --> 01:17:23,279 anymore. But Andrew eventually went into pod show with me and, 1216 01:17:23,339 --> 01:17:25,559 and, and help start all of that. 1217 01:17:26,010 --> 01:17:28,590 Oh, that's nice. That's great to have to have him back in the 1218 01:17:28,590 --> 01:17:33,480 mix. Yeah, I think like, okay, you know, one of the one of the 1219 01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:38,370 obvious things that's not there is a public search. You know, 1220 01:17:38,370 --> 01:17:41,310 there we don't have every, if you go through us, you have to 1221 01:17:41,310 --> 01:17:44,430 sign up as the developer account, right. And that's what 1222 01:17:44,430 --> 01:17:47,430 we're focused on right now. But there's nothing stopping 1223 01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:51,450 somebody from putting up a a podcast index search. 1224 01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:54,870 Gosh, wouldn't that be nice to have someone just focus on 1225 01:17:54,900 --> 01:17:58,800 that? And make it look beautiful and be beautiful? And yes, be 1226 01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,100 beautiful. I can do it. But it's just going to Illinois. You 1227 01:18:02,100 --> 01:18:04,980 can't we can't do beautiful we can do you can do beautiful 1228 01:18:04,980 --> 01:18:10,410 code, but we suck at design. And yeah, no, you I think, Okay. 1229 01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:16,530 Perfect. Perfect example, was it Trent transistor, those those 1230 01:18:16,530 --> 01:18:19,620 guys are great. I worked right. Pierre over there to get him 1231 01:18:19,620 --> 01:18:24,240 some to get his API stuff set up. And to their website is 1232 01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:30,660 beautiful. I will transistor guys, I will give you SSH keys 1233 01:18:30,690 --> 01:18:32,130 into my server. If you can make 1234 01:18:32,130 --> 01:18:36,030 our website look beautiful. It is I'm looking at it now. Like 1235 01:18:36,060 --> 01:18:36,480 that's the 1236 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:40,170 kind of stuff that the you know, the I can't do. So what 1237 01:18:40,170 --> 01:18:43,980 is the what is transistor doing? Are they are they adding feeds 1238 01:18:43,980 --> 01:18:45,000 or what are they doing? They? 1239 01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:47,730 Yeah, they're Yeah, they're, they're integrating so they can 1240 01:18:47,730 --> 01:18:51,600 put nice, they can be sure and get listed out is a 1241 01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,050 pretty website. Yes. Beautiful. They have most of the things you 1242 01:18:55,050 --> 01:18:57,960 need right down to the icons for subscribing. I mean, they got 1243 01:18:57,960 --> 01:18:58,890 all of that stuff. 1244 01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:02,070 Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, they're good guys. Yeah, I think 1245 01:19:02,070 --> 01:19:05,070 they're just, I think there's adding so they can make sure 1246 01:19:05,070 --> 01:19:09,090 their guys are listed. Yeah, anything like that. If somebody 1247 01:19:09,090 --> 01:19:11,730 sees it's like, hey, why don't you Why don't you have so and 1248 01:19:11,730 --> 01:19:14,490 so? The answer is go build it. 1249 01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:20,070 Yes. Go build it. Exactly. Exactly. What else do you have? 1250 01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:21,540 David, anything else on your plate? 1251 01:19:22,230 --> 01:19:26,400 Ah, long show. I think we're good. I think we can probably 1252 01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:33,870 probably to get I want to talk about the how code relates to 1253 01:19:34,380 --> 01:19:37,560 the evolutionary argument against naturalism. But we can 1254 01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:38,490 talk about that next year. 1255 01:19:38,580 --> 01:19:44,310 Okay. Can't wait for the cliffnotes. Yeah. Well, good 1256 01:19:44,310 --> 01:19:48,060 corporate meeting, Dave. I appreciate it. We'll have the 1257 01:19:48,060 --> 01:19:51,120 meeting notes out to everybody. Thank you again to everybody who 1258 01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:53,550 has supported us with your code with your thinking with your 1259 01:19:53,550 --> 01:19:57,930 creativity, and certainly those with financial support. This 1260 01:19:57,930 --> 01:20:00,240 will definitely keep us going for a couple more weeks. So 1261 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,210 without any having to put anything ourselves, it's highly, 1262 01:20:03,210 --> 01:20:07,680 highly, highly appreciated. Let us know what your your thoughts 1263 01:20:07,710 --> 01:20:11,820 get on the GitHub, remember where it podcasts index.org. And 1264 01:20:11,820 --> 01:20:16,500 you can send an email to either Dave or I even info at podcast 1265 01:20:16,500 --> 01:20:19,320 index.org, we'll get to pretty much everybody in our vast 1266 01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:23,160 organization. And, Dave, should we be looking out for something 1267 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,770 in the next few days specifically, that, that you're 1268 01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,020 that you're finishing up or you're pushing out? 1269 01:20:28,410 --> 01:20:32,250 I'm working on the right now I'm working on the PubSub stuff. And 1270 01:20:32,250 --> 01:20:37,680 once I get that finished, I'm going to I'm getting a batch add 1271 01:20:37,890 --> 01:20:42,840 feature in a batch add endpoints so that you can bulk submit feed 1272 01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:47,010 feed URLs, but that's going to be that's going to require a 1273 01:20:47,010 --> 01:20:50,730 different API permission key permission level as your best 1274 01:20:50,730 --> 01:20:53,070 you're gonna have to ask for that. So that's meant that's 1275 01:20:53,070 --> 01:20:57,630 meant mostly for the podcast network guys, so that they can 1276 01:20:57,630 --> 01:21:01,560 batch add their shows and not have to call out you know, the 1277 01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,480 API 1000 times. 1278 01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:07,230 Yes. Much easier to do in one one blast. 1279 01:21:07,500 --> 01:21:11,130 Yeah. And we have a tweet, we have a Twitter account, podcast 1280 01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:16,890 index. Oh, good. There's also a blog that podcast index.org is 1281 01:21:16,890 --> 01:21:23,010 also the micro blog for if I add new things that I think like new 1282 01:21:23,010 --> 01:21:26,460 API endpoints and that kind of thing will be I'm going to blog 1283 01:21:26,460 --> 01:21:29,940 it there and it but it cross posts to Twitter and mastodons 1284 01:21:29,940 --> 01:21:33,150 if you follow the Twitter, or subscribe to the blog feed, or 1285 01:21:33,150 --> 01:21:36,150 Macedonia stuff, you should see those things come out. Like if 1286 01:21:36,150 --> 01:21:38,730 there's a new little blurb that I think everybody needs to know 1287 01:21:38,730 --> 01:21:38,940 about. 1288 01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:43,320 Can you put a link on the homepage to the blog? 1289 01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:47,250 Oh, yeah, yeah, I can I guess on the developer portal but yeah, 1290 01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:47,730 let's 1291 01:21:47,730 --> 01:21:50,400 let's put it on the on the homepage as well. And then I'll 1292 01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:54,120 I'll start put some stuff in and I'll post when the when the show 1293 01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,400 goes up. I'll post about it right there so everybody can 1294 01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:01,080 grab grab their copy know about it. Okay. All right. My brother, 1295 01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,200 thank you so much. Have a great weekend. I'm sure we'll be 1296 01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,030 chatting on Saturday or Sunday. Anyway. 1297 01:22:06,570 --> 01:22:09,120 All right, man. Good luck with shows this weekend. Thank you. 1298 01:22:09,390 --> 01:22:09,540 And 1299 01:22:09,540 --> 01:22:14,910 thank you all for being part of podcasting. 2.0 we are 1300 01:22:14,910 --> 01:22:18,450 preserving podcasting as a platform for free speech. We'll 1301 01:22:18,450 --> 01:22:21,810 do it again next week right here on podcasting 2.0